Topic: financing a 'Community Miner' project; Are You In? (Read 4108 times)

still a viable option; hashrate can be directed at a PPS/PPLNS pool or a pool owned by the group (to earn full blockreward if found).

I wanted to return our attention to the issues in this thread: truthfulness of the posters and the sanity of the posters. This thread seems to be mercifully free of any obvious attempts to scam/defraud. And the whole Bitcoin mining milieu is mercifully free of the dangers of physical harm

The "face to face" isn't like some dive bar with everyone drunk and armed. It is more like a courtroom "face to face" when the truth is most likely to win. Modern courtrooms are increasingly even using transparent barriers to allow the sides to speak the truth without risking physical harm.

The difference with the courtroom is that this board is anonymous. We don't get the benefit of a background checks for the prospective business partners. All that's left is hunches about the sanity and trustfulness.

Please everyone don't let themselves get intimidated with threats like "You wouldn't say that face to face!".

The skillful scammers are mostly gone from the Bitcoin mining, what we have now is a wave of unskilled desperadoes and self-deluded dreamers.

The opening post of aliashraf is a great modern example of a dreamer, very much like the 17th century Don Quixote "who reads so many chivalric romances that he loses his sanity and decides to set out to revive chivalry, undo wrongs, and bring justice to the world." All you need to do is replace "chivalry" with "Bitcoin" and "distributed". The main difference was that the original Don Quixote had his own horse and a down-to-earth servant named Sancho Pansa. aliashraf doesn't own a horse and is looking for at least five servants with their own horses.

The boisterous posts of Mr. Kashif is a good example a desperado, somebody who already tried and failed at getting technical education and relevant employment. His greatest motivator is probably shame he feels towards his parents who paid for his schooling.

To recapitulate and summarize: please don't let themselves get manipulated into not asking the important questions. But at the same time don't ask stupid questions. This isn't a real courtroom where everyone will be excused for asking an explanation of unfamiliar term. Here the conversation isn't live, anyone can put the unfamiliar term in the search box of their browser and skim first couple of returned results.

I don't give two shits what anyone thinks of me....I'll say what I say here to anyone anywhere  

On point.

*Shots Fired*

When you can hide behind the keyboard, it is a lot easier to say things you would never say face to face.

Such an interesting thread. Can anyone imagine a conversation like this happening face to face if we were all in the same room?

Can I call it passion from the OP? Love your intentions dude. Best of luck.

It was just a bit over USD 150 million until the USD/ETH exchange rate popped to USD 20/ETH just prior to the recursive send exploit event that formed the "dark DAO."

- zed

I'm not asking for money  ... What's this? A Denial of Discussion Attack?

This is it? This is all you got? "start your company" ?  

The basic and most fundamental step for the community mining project  is solving (by discussion) the organisation and investment problems, keep your money in a safe place and wait for these to be solved, I see you have nothing to present for the time being.

It is not a scam! Are you crazy? 

Personally I am new to this community and can't run a campaign to collect money and escape, nobody gives me a penny, ... don't be rude!

My proposal is about using the social capital of the community (I have a 0+ share in it ) and  Blockchain infrastructure to run a protocol for supporting community mining, the crucial, absolutely fundamental need for a decentralized public blockchain like Bitcoin.

No you are not aware, I bet.

As for your budget inquiry of the project:

Ethereum community is far behind Bitcoin's and its market cap is nothing compared to Bitcoin,
DAO initiative was immature and full of flaws (A Turing complete enabled smart contract is the most  error prone approach proposed to a problem of this class ever ) and everybody knew it,
Nobody has ever discovered a use case for smart contracts in mainstream business, Bitcoin is already a part of it,
Ethereum itself is not under ASIC attack and not in an emergency (Bitcoin is)


And  guess what? they raised 200 or so million dollars for what? Investing in hypothetical Ethereum and smart contract related startups!

It is  a shame! Shame on this Bitcoin Foundation ...

I mean who are this guys and WTF are they doing? Fighting Bitcoin Classic guys and doing snake business with Gavin?

The whole technology is under ASIC attack, community mining is obsolete and centralization is out there and they are playing 'I'm the most clever teenager ever' game with their SegWit (an obvious software bloat, an 'I am very clever' piece of programming trick, so ordinary, so dirty, so worthless) ...

What the hell are they doing?

A couple million dollars is enough , you right and ... it is just the price of a thousand or less S9's ... not a big deal.  

The thing is saying: 'NO! It won't happen, I know.' is so easy until you have no understanding about the situation, the threats against your interests and your obligations.

Come on,you don't trust this face??

I am up for any well conceived, profitable, reputable and realistic ASIC project that I can afford.
So far I don't see one here.  Just a lot of blah, blah, blah.
Stop asking for money before you have a plan with the above characteristics.
Or better yet - if you know so much, start your own company.

WOW - I like the insult but I am aware of what an ASIC is, but I think you are the one that is delusional.  What type of money do you think it will take to design and fab an ASIC that can compete with the current generation?  Secondly, how soon do you think you could get it done with the current backlog of chips being produced?  Do you think your long speeches will get Global Foundaries to let you go ahead of the billion dollar companies?

Please elaborate on the budget and timeframe you are looking at because the only person on this thread without a clue seems to be the OP.

And here I was thinking Luck Charms, you know, because they're magically delicious. Oh, and the give you a wicked sugar high.

Wow, what a read. I truly hope nobody gets scammed.

unless you've a couple million dollars behind you; or a fat stack of 16nm chips ready to solder to a chinese cloned PCB - i'd probably advise against wasting your time. the mining paradigm has evolved from companies releasing machines to home users, then exclusively large mining outfits; to then hoarding their own equipment for their own exclusive use (knc, bitfury, anyone remember the bitcoin brothers?)..

if the end goal is still mining for profit; set up a pool and rent some hashrate at an agreed price, and hope you beat the cut. this will be your most successful option; as the only people making money are the ones who either stole the equipment they use, are not paying for power or have a large amount of space at their disposal (not to mention those who mine selfishly.. f2pool/btcc/antpool).

get some interested candidates to throw some btc at a reasonable amount of hashrate; then split it accordingly. this is still more than possible and worthwhile

Good, very good debate, I suspect it doesn't belong here though, but damn it, my topic, my choice, I'm used to dive right into the middle of hell, actually I live there already, so damn it ... I just dive in

1 - ASIC is something and miniaturization is another thing, SHA256 ASIC technology can't go further than recently introduced ASIC Boost enhancement, there is nothing to be improved other than the degree of miniaturization (nano meter scale).

2- Miniaturization and nano race, can't go to infinity. Moore law is already suspected to break and will break eventually.

3- Miniaturization is not privately owned by Bitmain or BW or Bitfury they are nothing comparing to Intel, IBM, ...

4- The most consuming part of ASIC development is about its design/test cycle, there is new technologies that can make it  much easier and more cost-effective for average investors to build their ASIC's with reasonable cost.

5- An important share of the gap is not because of their exclusive access to ASIC it is about other parts of the mining hardware too.

6- Given my above assertions being totally invalid (obviously they aren't) the bitcoin community is large enough to compete and the technology provides more than enough opportunities and infrastructure to have this community in a fair and decentralized way of co-funding and cooperating aligned with their short and long term interests.

I can add one or two more items but the point is clear: There is hope!  

As with my addictions..I learned when to quit..very late but I learned.I've been mining since June 2011,how bout you??

See,I've been here & done that.I've mined about 700 btc & have ZERO to show for it,it all got spent on ASIC upgrade after ASIC upgrade after ASIC upgrade(that never made the btc back that it cost),oh & the ripoff miners that never showed up 

It's a losing battle,none of us will win,we do not have the weapons,Bitmain,Avalon,KnC,Bitfury,etc have them & they will escalate this to the heavens to earn money...as the Borg said "Resistance is futile" 

As I said,find another coin to champion for,BTC is not it anymore,it does NOT belong to the people,like the US of A,it belongs to the corporations 

Good  for you. quitting alcohol and drugs is kinda fighting, it is bravery (smoking is another category, I love smoking it reminds me of the bitter taste of life)

The thing is Bitcoin is not an addiction, you know it, don't be a coward, it is a battle field, quitting here is anything other than bravery

I'm also a quitter...I quit drinkin & using  drugs 20 years ago & smoking cigs 2 months ago 

Wanna fight about it (Family guy ref) 

betrayal is not acceptable, you a betrayer unacceptable  , read my post?

Back to GPU mining,lots to chose from & makes a little more with 3 GPU's (450 watts) than you can with 3000+gh (600+ watts) of ASIC sha256 crap gear  

And ASIC crap gear you are stuck mining ASIC riddled crap coins  

first: I think you don't understand what ASIC is, and how much it costs us to develop an open-to-market ASIC chip, so you just, 'guess' it is very complicated and 'too advanced' while it is not.

second: A properly organised community can negotiate and control far more better than a single person.

third: You better understand one single important point: We have no choice other than fighting together to the last minute, no other choice and there is hope.

out of curiosity, what coin have you moved on to 

That is nice but where are you planning on getting ASICS?

Personally..Bitcoin is going to die..those mega bitcoin mining farms that keep getting bigger every day,will be the demise of it.

Move on & create or use another coin    I have 

I was just chewing this thread (which I started with a lot of hopes) and became so angry about my bad luck and fortune being born in and grown and stuck in the Middle Hell region ...

It is our fate in the Middle Hell and all other not-enough-developed parts of the world that we have to deal with dead or dying bodies of technologies, instead of the fresh and newborn  babies ... I got another sad confirmation about it in the last 24 hours as I figured out if not Bitcoin but at least this community is a dying or badly and disappointingly sick body.

As always, as a third world engineer, I'm a few years late.  

how is it? stay with me

Confronting Bitcoin centralization threat, one can imagine different classes of people:

1- One who does not understand and have not a clue about the role of decentralization in the Bitcoin, an ignorant, a piece of cake ready to be ripped off by Mao Zedong's successors

2- One who knows every thing and has surrendered, moved to Altcoins or is planning to migrate, a betrayer, one who has no sense of strategy

3- One who knows but has plans and opportunities to have a share of the bones in the ripping party , a greedy idiot

4- One who knows and is developing a counter attack strategy by promoting and preserving community mining , a fighter

 

I hate reddit and I don't know why, I don't feel good there and haven't registered an account, I had more hopes here to be in touch with fighters, people that do not give up.

Obviously Craig is right, he is the real Satoshi ... who else can be such a fool to ruin such a brilliant idea by choosing SHA256 (twice!) with that little memory footprint and no I/O at all ... perhaps he was a kinda ... somewhat like that Vitalik ... this is really an apocalypse ... even our geniuses are cartoons of a genius ...  choosing this SHA256 piece of shit as PoW, such an obviously vulnerable algorithm to ASIC attacks ... oh, come on geny! you better vanish man ... ASIC's existed much before CPU's, actually the first so-called 'computer' was an 'Application Specific' piece of shit ... you crazy man?


Now it is our reality, ordinary people don't mine, most of the total hash power is under the ultimate control of just one single person, Xi Jinping, and we have to 'trust' in his majesty not going mad and blowing everything. Pathetic!

back to the topic, back to the topic Ali, remain focused ...


Community mining is not a joke, it is not a hobby, it is not intended to be  'fun', it is a  fundamental priority for Bitcoin to complete its mission.


Things are complicated, game is not over, there are a few good news too:

1- Xi Jinping and his loyal citizens can do nothing  bad to Bitcoin unless being prepared for their share of billions of dollars worth of coins to be disappeared for ever, they are greedy and we have some time  

2- As a game changer, Bitcoin makes it possible for people to cooperate in a decentralized, transparent, democratic, smart fashion, it can be and should be used to clean the Satoshi mess about SHA256 and this ASIC attack on the network.

3- ASIC is not a 'too advanced' topic, don't panic! I agree that people with more resources have some advantages but how much? We can compete, don't panic!

4- A lot of opportunities out there. The core infrastructure is not the only place to have people contribution, we can open new front lines and fields, related to and supported by a reliable enough infrastructure but definitively distinguished and independent from it.

It is what I mean by a fighter, a person who does not panic, does not give up, stays stood, looks for opportunities and possibilities, has a vision, is focused and oriented toward preserving the most beautiful innovation in 21st century although it is made by a crazy, almost fool person: Satoshi Nakamoto.

Where in the hell are the real fighters? Is this community really dying?

I love being the ASSHOLE so here we go - after reading your comment above, where in HELL do you expect to get ASICS if other seasoned forum members cannot get them.  Is the Majestical Fucking ASIC Fairy going to sprinkle her fairy dust on some corn flakes for you?


ps- if you say you are going to design and produce them, please lock this thread and let it go away gracefully

OP registered at April 09, 2016.

I think he doesn't rembember the good old scam days..... Bick had some community project or something. It failed. And all these projects failed except Sidhack's stickminers.

So, just to be clear:

Naysayers should not reply

The original posting didn't indicate you only wanted positive responses.

cheers Dr. Kilo, a +1 here. Thanks for the advice. Hero members are acting much better than the legendary ones  

Just a quick note, I applaud your ambition and hope this works out for you.  Please be careful because what starts out as a good intention may end up being your worst nightmare.

Thank you very much for your kindness. You are showing commitment signs, keeping on this way you will be in Rome eventually : an interested, committed hero member of bitcointalk  

I knew there is a lot of discussion and proposals out in the community related or similar to mine but other than obvious differences the most important distinctive aspect of my work is methodological.

I have noticed most of this proposed protocols remain abandoned and obsolete because of the way they are presented and their road map to  implementation.

I'm from another campus, I begin with a use case, generalize it, abstract it, model it, build a total infrastructure, protocol, naming convention, anthology, ... for it and finally implement it now just as a sample!

See? I need a sample, a use case, a damn real, too real, almost urgent use case is needed for me to move seriously, I'm not a mathematician concerned about protocols and algorithms but I'm not a technician playing with API's and stuck in simple use cases, I'm a senior software architect/engineer/ programmer who finds and implements generalized high level ideas in the context of solving real world problems.

TCP/IP is a protocol and HTTP, SMTP, ... are stacked on it. Blockchain is a simple book keeping protocol plus a cryptocurrency mining algorithm, properly merged by a genius, neither this nor that is going to be changed or touched by my proposal. colored coins is a straightforward example of this, Name Coin (although being hard forked ) is another example, ....

And No! I'm not willing to make it a pure protocol proposal stuff, not interested, I prefer to remain focused on community miner hardware design and manufacturing and approach to the collaboration and crowdfunding issues caused by this incentive using my ideas about semi-smart contracts.

I'm not a protocol proposing guy.

Too many protocols out there and nobody even tries to understand them, thank you.

I'm concerned about leveraging ASIC technology in the interest of the small miners to keep bitcoin alive and safe. I see a very unacceptable situation regarding this and I understand there is a need for a collaborative, crowd funded action.

Meanwhile, fortunately I'm good at protocol and software design/implementation (somehow to some degree) and using bitcoin inherent potential I can design and implement a simple/practical protocol in a matter of few weeks to run a semi-autonomous decentralized organization based on a semi-smart contract infrastructure ... why? Not to sell my protocol stuff (I'm not selling any thing), to build a competitive mining solution for the community.

i missed the mention of the new protocol, that is definitely not bitcoin.  that single, what is it now 12 GB, blockchain cannot be touched by any other protocol than SHA-256.  that is the "encryption" and it cannot be "decrypted" by another means.  it would be like trying to watch a modern 3D movie with the old cyan/blue glasses, it doesn't work

i think you have so much going on in your head with this thing that it is not coming out smoothly.  also, you have the passion for your project, which is great, but don't get defensive because others aren't sharing that passion

get an old fashioned pencil and paper and write down the idea, map it out and start a new thread with a clearer roadmap, this one has gotten loaded and soaked with cross ideas and lost people

You are right, will take care more 
about something to chew ... oh, there is a lot:

1- The naming convention I have used, semi-smart contracts as a very important key
2- using and utilizing 'social capital' and 'networks of trust'
3- drawing a distinctive line between pure mathematical approach to the problem and a socioeconomic approach enriched extensively by mathematics
4- dealing with trust, promise, reputation, obligation, ... issues
5-....

believe it? I have already discussed all of these and a lot more !!

You give me half of this ideas and I'll build a full system from scratch. Unfortunately we are dealing with non-expert people which is totally disappointing and frustrating, but you are right and I need a lot more patience.

No, I'm not talking of an Altcoin. I hate Altcoins. By proposing a semi-smart contract concept, I'm throwing out basic idea of the most important Alt coin, Ethereum. When you get rid of smart contract discourse, you are back to the homeland: bitcoin.

i am not complaining, just saying that your attitude in that post seems like it will push people away.  i did not read the reply of the person that you are calling "interested" but you then deny them based on not having the proper level of "interest" in your opinion.  you are trying to sell people on a concept/model here.  the last thing you said is like a car salesman approaching someone on the lot, the person says "Hey i might buy a car today", which is a full on buying question/statement and you tell them "well we are here to sell cars to people that BUY not MIGHT BUY". i don't want to come across mean, just pump the brakes a bit here and give people some leeway to get interested.  you have an idea, you want people on board, give them someone to think about, something to chew over, don't tell them to hit the road because they did not call you the next coming Jesus for your idea

Don't expect commitment to an idea you haven't really explained. With the information you've given, "interest" is probably the best you'll get. If you think you need to book a convention center and wow us with a multimedia event to explain your ideas, you're definitely going to have trouble finding "committed" people here.

I think the suggestion is correct to take your ideas to not the hardware forum, since it sounds like you're mostly talking about protocols and philosophy and any kind of hardware tie-in is, at present, mostly incidental.

You stay out too. I wonder why are you posting here more   ...wait ... wait ... it is the way bitcointalk people show their ineterest? gotcha it  
So we have one interested guy here, but it isn't enough to be interested dude, you should be committed as well and by committed I mean a responsible purposed and oriented person ... far from the attitudes of you people here, I'm  patient though.

forget the part of the "community" in the hardware development.  simply develop a hard core ASIC and then use the software to distribute the coins.  the software does not have to be in the miner itself either.  a simple website, backed by the same concept as a pool would be fine.  the miner drops out 0.25 BTC in three hours to a single address and then that address via scripting divides out the funds to the group.

i think the idea itself serves no other purpose than to create power groups within the field of bitcoin, but if i wanted to accomplish the feat, i would go that route and possibly embed the additional scripts within the ASIC

You might want to look into this http://bitfury.com/content/4-press/6.20.16-trust-accelerator-release.pdf and http://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2016/06/20/new-initiative-aims-to-eliminate-corruption-with-blockchain-technology/#5cd5964b1962 and lastly as a general link to all you talk about, http://bitfury.com/white-papers-research which are along the lines of what you are proposing.

Excellent reading but still way OT though.

Ok. you  stay out. It is not just about you. And I have no interest in convincing people who have no interest, specially when it costs me a considerable time, my valuable time.

Exactly.
We get that blockchain technology has a myriad of uses, contract verification being just one of them.  Hell going way out, the major lighting makers are working with Public electric utilities to incorporate local blockchains to identify and verify 'smart' LED streetlight installations eg what is it, where is it (from built in GPS), when installed, etc. So far installation ID time has dropped from ~15min scanning the unit, filling in contractor information as needed. to less than 2 most of which is the lights finding/setting up a local network link.

Point is -- this is a HARDWARE section. Wrong crowd to pitch to.

Might this whole grand adventure be better suited to an Alt Coin sub-forum?

I see mention of a new protocol and infrastructure. None of that sounds particularly Bitcoin Mining centric to me.

As I suggested when OP first showed up, he might find a more receptive audience in another sub-forum. The title doesn't really seem very accurate to the overall scope and desires he has.

Just my $.02.

You inspired me 

You know, I bet BW would sell about $50K of their 14nm ASIC. Too bad all their good info is currently behind an NDA...

I avoided this thread  until I could decide what to write on it.

I have a very delibrate writing style I call it modified brooklynese. I misspell and don't correct all of the time.  I start sentences without caps and if you look at my posts   you would think I am a dem these and dos guy.

To the op please watch this video on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGyKg2fWehU

forget everything but one thing  did he sing the shit out of the song?

My posts are  normally like his act  and I am well like on this site because forget the picture frame  the picture is beautiful.

I have read a lot of your posts and your picture frame is fucking beautiful really pretty ,but is seems to my eyes the picture is a pile of Bull Shit.

   Here a simple pledge if a real chip builder will sell real chips to me in a small amount I will buy 10,000 usd worth of current chips and hand them to sidehack to build something.
This translates to only company at the moment bitmaintech. So anytime they want to contact me and sell me real chips in small amount I am here.   Plus I know I could get more people to toss in money I believe i could raise 50k for a chip purchase from bitmaintech, but frankly they will not sell the chips to me or anyone else .  It is quite possible they can't sell them to us and they can't tell us that.

But they read posts here and they are free to contact me if they have some new s-9 chips to sell directly to me.

If this guy ^ has a project, I'll back it and buy it. A relative unknown with a zero trust score looking to do "something" nah.

Ditto. I won't buy something you're not willing to explain until after I've bought it.

Your proposal is far outside my interests so I'm out.

As an engineer, with more than a quarter of a century of high level professional background, I'll never present a detailed technical proposal to people with little or zero interest in buying it, leave alone their competence in understanding it.

Thus, hereby , I announce:

I am ready to give a comprehensive and convincing proposal for implementing semi-smart contracts using Bitcoin Blockchain, given a simple precondition (to be mentioned) is satisfied.
 
It will include extensive detailed, diagrammatic  and formal definition of:

1- Entities and their relationships

2- Core protocol and its respected transition state flow

3- It's relevance to most of the contract oriented problems in the real world.


As it takes a lot of time and effort for me, to be documented in a structured way, I will do it if and only if:
 a handful (5 or more)  of legendary, active, respected members of this forum show interest and commitment to the subject of a hypothetical fair, transparent guaranteed way of raising funds for the 'community miner' project.

To have their attention and commitment, in this phase of development, I can just mention following outlines of my semi-smart contracts proposal:

1- It is not any thing like smart contracts in the Turing complete  approach people in Ethereum Foundation or 'game theory' enthusiasts are in love with.

2- It will use colored coins extensively.

3- It utilizes existing networks of trust (like this forum) and their respective social capital without fear of acquisitions about not being 'mathematically provable' . It is not mathematics, it is socioeconomic using mathematics extensively but not exclusively.

4- It is about quantifying and tracking promises, reputation, credits, obligations and so on.

5- Its final destination is money transfer, as the ultimate purpose of contracts, so it uses the Bitcoin Blockchain as its main infrastructure for transaction processing, but it uses other (new or existing structures) for some other purposes.

6- It works with real world data to evaluate contracts and their consequences.


until my above precondition is fulfilled, I am ready to discuss importance, and feasibility of such a hypothetical ecosystem and protocol.

I have never considered the blockchain to be an irrelevant application on top of anything; nor do I consider applications on top of a blockchain to be, in general, a bad thing. I just still don't like the idea of harnessing the Bitcoin blockchain for other than its original purpose.

So, what exactly is your proposal? Let's see a detailed layout of the concepts instead of the jargon-fraught arguments which have gotten you nowhere thus far. But remember, if you're going to try and convince engineers of something you really should avoid fluff and hollow manager-speak and stick to raw details.

Well said. I do agree. And ...

And it is to be changed, asap. I understand your concerns, I mean it, but you hardware guys should realize something very important , not easy but important enough to try ...

The Blockchain is not a simple irrelevant application on top of a general purpose platform on which you guys are trying to do something as big as designing it from scratch or as small as fixing some voltage level adjustment and control.

The Blockchain is a promising technology, ready to be used to overcome problems like what you are concerned about ...

This is the point! Living in the Blockchain era, is not the same as living in the past, working on Blockchain problems is not to be done in a traditional way, it is new, everything is new and you should take it into account  and put this factor in the equations.

I sincerely ask you sidehack dude to reconsider possibilities to use the Blockchain to fix your problems with raising funds needed to do some thing good, actually good and critically necessary as my analysis of the current situation shows.

I have a proposal for this, I can convince you and other guys about it, it is so practical but I need credit, I need interest. Pessimistic arguments are of no help, neither is showing off Lone Ranger gestures. Nothing happens this way. No chips will be ordered , no pcb's , nothing ... and we are already out of time.

To be fair, a lot of the reason I haven't gotten a miner built is because of how I do business - I try to put as little risk as possible on the customer. Which means I've turned away pretty much everyone who's wanted to put money into my project. An ASIC vendor would likely be more willing to talk to me if I showed up with an aslo of money ready to drop on the table, but I have a profound aversion to taking in money on an unproven design.

This is how:

It's been over for me for about 8 months,I already found other coins to mine & will NOT be mining bitcoin UNLESS....the diff goes down ALOT,or a miner is small enough & cheap enough to run at a loss at home.

Ain't gonna happen so move on bro 

Hell,if sidehack can't get a miner built no one can.And if does get one built,he will not have enough chips to make a really worthwhile run...........

It simply implies: Bitcoin is over.

One should consider the role of community mining in the heart of the Blockchain consensus protocol, never ever under-estimate it I have to repeat every word this days and I don't know why but I do repeat:

Bitcoin is over without community mining

I answered your post there , and there is a dispute definitively, but lets have it to be resolved there ...

as far as this thread is concerned I have to ask you Mr. Kilo:

Suppose (just suppose for the god sake) there exists a structure reliable enough, backed by the Bitcoin Blockchain that can guarantee fairness, transparency, and strategically well oriented management to fulfill following requirements:

1- accomplishing sophisticated job of attracting and accumulating funds and regulating it to be supplied to the project(s) and nothing else.

2- dispatching interests in a fair agreed way.

3- Communicating with all interested parties, making a balance between conflicting interests, resolving disputes, ....

again (I have to repeat) please, just suppose it is real and operational:

Are You In? How much?

There is not a dispute, I think you have not been around long enough to have seen the wreckage of people funding companies projects.

Please read my last post on the above quoted thread.

I lost my ass 3 times by "pitching in",so nope.You get the product ready to ship & then I will buy 

The network hashrate is NOT coming down...ASICs are NOT for sale,so you'll never get enough chips to recoup your investment 

Mining bitcoin at home is over,in case you didn't get the memo 

Absolutely not

The community backs people how?

Saying cheers and posting cheerful replies full of emoticons? Donating some mbtc's?

How in the hell, your majesty,  the community can support anybody?

This proposal is about organizing and making it reasonable and  economical to invest/support projects of public interest. What's wrong here? just support mentally if you are busted or have already invested in a farm full of Bitmain hardware!

My bad! Problems with my browser and it happened this way. I think a mod will eventually comes and fixes it.

Well ... such a disappointing pledge

I don't understand you people ... what's wrong with you? don't give up!

look:
1- Designing and producing ASIC is not a hard job. SHA256 is a simple repetitive shit of a limited set of operations; a piece of cake for any ASIC designer
2- ASIC Boost has already become open source and licensed reasonably fair.
3- I have encountered  new technologies and methodologies very cost effective in terms of reducing ASIC design/production/test cycles.
4- Other parts of a miner hardware design are of a very straightforward nature and need no R&D investment.
5- We got a lot of miners here with huge experience and knowledge that can be implemented directly to the process.

So why being  a coward?

Don't post me anything other than your readiness to participate and invest. Take your disappointing, negative perceptions with yourself to bed and have fun with a full HD nightmare ...

We are talking about action and hope disciplined and organized using the Blockchain to support it.

It is great!

Forget about playing a Lenze's law game please.

No because capitalism > socialism.

A socialized miner will not be able to compete with a private built miner. Don't waste your time trying.

I don't see how this could possibly work.  First of all, the main ASIC designers are light years ahead of the game and it would take a group of people with tons of experience to be able to rival them at this point.  On top of that, you could never truly be decentralized as someone would always have to control the funds and how they will be used, so you will always be trusting someone or some group, and investing in ASIC's without them being ready to be shipped has not worked out well in the past for any group.

Is there reason to have TWO threads, that are named the same, with different capitalizations for the words?

This doesn't make any sense to me.

What are you talking about?

I get that you are into dezentralizing the network.. it seems like you're trying to create a board of people from the btc community to control the creation of a new ASIC? Why?

The community will back a guy with the proven know-how, and ability to create a new ASIC.
The community will not back a group of self-entitled douchebags who has paid for their voices to be heard.

Have I interpreted you correctly?

There is a dispute between me and almost everybody else here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1368507.440
I'm insisting on investment and istitution and guys are teaching me Lone Ranger way of doing things, as a retired ranger I don't buy it  though.

I will take care of that discussion separately  

Here I'm asking a simple question:

Suppose there is a Blockchain way of managing and fairly scheduling your investments to support a 'community miner' project to:

1- have your fair share of the involved interests being guaranteed

2- be supported as a home miner and

3- have the privilege to participate in a campaign for keeping Bitcoin decentralized aligned with your long term interests as a bitcoiner

ARE YOU IN?  HOW MUCH?