Topic: [First Avail. Reserv.] CT/HF Bare Rig GB + Bitmine 28nm Chip Buy discussion (Read 11589 times)

Well, that's just my opinion. We all need to do our Due Diligence and come to our own conclusions.  

FWIW, from discussions with various members there already appears to be a commitment to a good chunk - over a quarter - of a potential $50K chip buy from Bitmine.

Please PM me if you might be interested in this. You wouldn't be held to any commitments, at this point: it's more of a gauge of market demand that could help tip the balance as to whether this particular Bitmine Coincraft 28nm ASIC Chip GB/potential rig assembly project goes forward or not. Of course, if there's enough demand and enough members & cooperatives band together, a larger chip purchase yields a better value for everyone involved.

Thats great for putting my mind at rest a little.    might be a viable option!! 

This was from a PM I sent after a member asked me my opinion on Bitmine. Since Cointerra & HashFast haven't been forthcoming so far about chip purchases and platform support, just thought I'd share my findings on what's looking to be a viable option for a 2013 ASIC 28nm Chip Buy:

"Bitmine passes the sniff test for sure esp. when you compare them to those new scammers GMHS which appears to have been registered in Russia but is trying to pass itself off as a Hong Kong mfg..

I was dubious about this Swiss team only working on their 28nm chip for 6 months but Giorgio was upfront about it when I questioned him. When I went to their site I was impressed with the openness I saw with LinkedIn links that were real & had actual pro contacts in their industry, as expected. Their reliance on Innosilicon and Global Foundries is a great thing IMO; get help from experts where you need help, do what you can on your own. As long as they get to tapeout without stumbling at the finish line I think they'll be able to meet delivery by year's end..."

Well I asked them about buying bare chips with or without pcbs and the answer is that they dont have any details about that (even icedrill bought them)

They also told me to stay tunned to the website because they hope to have an announcement soon. Nice in that aspect for HF 

That's the joke. 

Well, they are calling their machines Mercury, Jupiter, and Saturn.

Actually its only $100 per a chip, $50000 for 500 chips. That makes it $5 per a gh/s at 20gh/s and $2.50 per a gh/s at 40gh/s. Pretty inexpensive really. A bitfury chip is $25 per 2.7gh/s which makes it $9.26 per a gh/s, significantly more expensive than these chips. These chips and the bitfury designs also use similar amounts of power per a gh/s, with a slight edge to the coincraft asic.

It's a shame that Hashfast isn't offering chips, these chips could be good. Hashfast's small batch sizes are probably actually good for bitcoin mining as a whole, however. By keeping down the hashrate they flood the market with, they keep their devices more profitable.

 It may be a terrible thought, but personally I hope that any asics I do not purchase are slow to market or vaporware. It is shaping up to be quite a bumping ride in the overall hashrate with VMC, coincraft, and avalon v.2 being announced, not to mention KnC appears to be shipping in astronomical quantity. BFL has possibly sold 3PH/s of asics, who knows if they will even deliver this.  The quick reselling of another batch of KnC could very well flood the market beyond profit for even their customers. For every asic they sell, they devalue the other asics they have already sold. I was slightly worried before, but now I really feel we may have an astronomical hashrate by January. I would even go so far as to claim a lack of intelligence in the planning of asic designers, as this flooding of hash power does not seem like it will end well. While it makes me sad to say this, I really hope a few of these manufacturers fail to bring chips to market.

I welcome anyone who can actually ship product! 

That said, am I getting my math wrong or is the $500 per chip, capable of 20GH/s to 40GH/s, a might bit more expansive than the BitFurys at 2GH/s for $25?  If BitFury was double cost, it could be equivalent to these and you already have an IC for them?   Yes, you could order a larger quantity and get it down to $4.50/GH/s but that still leaves alot of room for the BitFury's to cost more and still be cost effective. 

 I don't remember the the GH/W of the BitFury's though, and that's the dominating cost if you mine for awhile.  I think the BitFury's were around 2W/chip?  Which would make them 1W/GH right?  These claim somewhere between 0.6 W/GH to 1 W/GH (unless you undervolt them).  So I guess these would win out should you keep them mining for long enough.

Looks good, but of course I will need to do a little more research as i`ve not een a great deal on these

As far as i know they aren't. I have written to them asking and they haven't responded yet. Would be nice though.

Hey guys. Yes we're still working away at getting something good happening for the next project. VMC and COINTERRA are still on the table but now also very interested in these:

https://bitmine.ch/?product=coincraft-ai-asic

Thoughts?

Barntech

So does Hashfast have any plans for selling bare chips? I haven't seen anywhere where that was their intention, other than for the protection plans. I'd love to see them throw bare chips on the market at a nice price. I certainly like variation on the market as far as chip designs.

Got another PM reservation for one or more HashFast bare rigs. Whoever organizes the first HF Bare Rig GB is already going to have a pool of customers with reservations right here.  

The news gets even better! ...at least if you're a B1 customer.

"everyone, please pay attention:

"The Baby Jet motherboard has room for an additional GN chip.**"

this applies to the Batch 1 units as well." - cypherdoc https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3117974

Looks like all those B1 units can do 800-1000GH/s once you get that second chip.

Guys, I just talked to Barntech. He says it's too early to make reservations for his next project. Sorry, if there was confusion. Don't worry though, he's hard at work on his next project.

However, this is *still* the place to make reservations for your a bare rig for Cointerra or Hashfast bare rigs.

As for Avalon or BFL, I refuse to deal with manufacturers that disdainfully treat their customers the way they do.

Did anyone see this today? http://us5.campaign-archive2.com/?u=238a9ecd2e5192e3cd3ace26d&id=1a696dd59b It looks like avalon is designing a second gen asic. I can't say I would trust them at this point, they seem like real scumbags or they were just in over their heads. Maybe they can turn it around, and I do like how the design specs will be published ahead of time. The fact that preorders won't be taken or required makes me think this may go better. I'd have much less reservation about purchasing chips ready to ship than preordering with bitsyncom.

  AS I SAID I have 4 group buys cooking and if just one starts as promised I am in for 5 coins give or take a coin.

Yes, the idea for the design for the VMC chips would be simple, basically the Drillbit System pimped out for the new chips. Standalone boards that can be stacked if desired. The Cointerra thing would be pretty different, single chip boards that would require serious cooling, most likely not stackable, though at that size, you wouldn't really need to.

Nice to see that there is some decent interest in this. More soon.

Barntech

I am also interested in investing, not sure how much I can afford to lose (invest) yet...

Very new to the forums, still getting my head around most of it.

I'd be interested at the 500-600USD price point.

I'm interested in the hashfast bare rigs, it's nice to see Barntech is involved. With recent difficulty increases it's looking like baby jet customers will be getting extra chips.

Interested

I am interested also.

interested as well

As I mentioned in the previous thread, I'm definitely interested in helping out in any way possible..

Both sound great guys!!

2. $3200 500GH/s CoinTerra unit; Could be late Dec./Jan.

3. $650 32GH/s unit: also a Jan. timeframe but possibly the easiest of the 3 options.

As long as a backplane & raspi are NOT mandatory for these units to work.A nice option to consolidate the units though,if you want to spend the extra BTC  

A USB cable & some sort of standard ATX PSU plug to keep it simple....oh & BFG or CGminer compatibilty too.

Bringing Barntech in on this  AWESOMENESS!!!!!!!!!!!  

I have a few friends with cash (I'm waiting on my 70GH of units,Avalon & Drillbit,hope to roll my BTC into something like this) looking to buy a KNC,I'll see if I can get them to hold on for this,if your serious  

Keep us posted!!!!!!!!  

Sounds good to me, im sure you probably already have a list of your customers and filling the slots wouldnt take a long time.

I am in, although not at the 100 chip level.
Given the time (jan) and difficulty unknowns, are there any wise actions we can take decrease the cost per GH?
Not that the price point is high. It's perfect. My concern is given the wait, what appears a great deal today could be January's boondoggle.
I'm not a tech, but if we can resonably reduce costs we can double the order and improve our chances for profitable mining or selling of the boards. Whatever is your preference.
Not that cost isn't a focus on every project. It just seems like this one has a longer time horizon therefore higher risk than others.
Maybe nothing can be done and you have already maxes out savings opportunities. Just want to push the point.

Well I will say this, the price per a GH/s of the Cointerra offering is quite appealing. Even if its a fairly large system, I would be quite interested. It really depends if Cointerra can deliver on spec and on time. I know its a much larger risk, but I feel that Barntech would really beat a large portion of the market on price per GH/s. At 500GH/s for $3200, I don't think you would have any trouble selling out. Your team can put a board out there with a very nice dollar to GH/s ratio and nobody else seems to be going there. Barntech's DIY attitude could really be a savior when everyone else seems to be going for the most money they can get. I think that cost effective large rigs could be quite nice.

VMC seems a bit late to the game, but its quite possible they could have very nice chip. Its a shame that the price per a GH/s is going up with VMC vs the eariler Drill Bit. This system would be a great way for new miners to get started without breaking the bank. I think that this is another ignored market area and I really want to see this happen as well. I have my worry about VMC, but who knows, they may deliver an awesome product. Its too early for me to judge at this point. I am hopeful we may see a drop in VMC's pricing, as I feel they are priced slightly high for their time of introduction to the market. Sadly 32GH/s for $500 may be priced out the market by January, depending on the total amount of hashes shipped.

Very glad to have jumped on the Drill Bit though! Its a real shame that Bitfury is pricing the next batch so high. While this may sound odd, I think there is a place for both kinds of systems. If the work load isn't too high and Barntech can make some money for themselves and their contribution, I am hopeful they will pursue both ideas. At this point I am much more interested in a Cointerra based system for my personal investment, but I would be interested in either. I have a very good feeling about Barntech and look forward to keeping my mining interests with them.

I'd be interested in anything Barntech organizes.

Also interested

Sounds good to me! I'll be here and we'll all be here whenever you'd like us to help out. If you want to handle all the BTC I'm cool with that, I'm just here to help Group Buyers and Sellers (oh, and myself by helping buyers & sellers; I'm all about getting access to leading edge tech at the best value).

P.S. Sorry about the thread hijack on your Drillbit GB to you and the Drillbit Group Buyers; was just backing up my man bobsag3. I didn't want to leave him hanging out on a limb. He's put a lot of time/effort/money into doing prior upgrades as well as taking my hosting suggestion upgrades and collateral methods to heart.

That is  Why I said under 2 weeks ^TM

 I want a product like this, but  I have 4 or 5 preorders as I type. I have to wait for at least one to show up before I do another preorder.  

1) BFL since march 2013=========== 14gh   maybe 2 weeks about 514 usd
2) a bitfury since june 2013========= 10gh    maybe 2 weeks  about 3 btc
3) a knc sinc july 2013 ===========  40gh    maybe 2 weeks  about 7.5 btc
4)a jet with d zombie since aug 2013=== 10gh    maybe 6 weeks    about 1.55 btc

a grand total of  15btc so whats another 5 btc
 

 this  is 74 gh on hold .  I am hashing 30gh as I type.

I would definitely be up for a 32 g/h unit if the price is around the $500 mark, but if difficulty keeps rising the hardware costs will have to come down.
We are going to see the hobby miners all dying off otherwise.

I'm in for one if delivery is going to be under 4 to 6 weeks from order. but not "Two Weeks^TM"

Hey all

Looks like there is decent amounts of interest in this stuff. Good to see, and thanks everyone for putting yourselves forwards offering assistance. Feels like we could do something cool here. I definitely do like the 500-600 mark for smaller more accessible miners more than the larger offering from Cionterra. I totally agree that getting this stuff moving quickly is ideal, but at this point it seems we're looking at January for either of these chips. As far as i can tell, none of them actually exist yet. I have a phone meeting set up with the guys from VMC on Monday so i will be able to get more details then and share them with you all. If i feel comfortable with their vibe, then it may well be worth moving quite quickly to secure early chips. Bobsag, your offer of some upfront cash may well come in useful to just place an order without having to wait for a group buy to fill up, though i do think we'll be able to reach the batch price quite quickly. 500 chips into two chip miners is 250 miners. I will personally want a decent amount, probably around the 50 mark and i imagine the rest of you would put your hands up for some, so in the end we would maybe only need to find takers for 100-150, which i think will be very easy to do. As always, the epic rising difficulty is a worry, and who knows where it will be by january or february, but i guess its probably still worth taking the plunge. Davmp and Zombei, it could be cool, not quite yet but maybe soon, to start looking at getting a solid order form on a separate page of our site for this stuff. Slightly premature right now, but would be good to have it ready to go from the beginning. On our end, we are still thoroughly tied up in our Bitfury stuff and want to wait at least until we have our prototytpe hashing before taking on any other projects. That should be up and running in the next week or so.

Cheers

Barntech

 the 500-600 dollar market is underserved  a 32gh miner at that price point sounds like what I want. for 2 years 400-600 dollar gpus were big news for mining the idea of a 32gh unit vs a .6gh gpu .  uses less power less noise is appealing.  If this can be done without huge leadtime it would be very nice. gpus were a 1 day wait from amazon. the only fast ship gear right now is from AM.  We need a 550 piece of gear that can ship fast under 2 weeks .  Waiting for a chip until Jan is the sticking point as I see it.

And money for me and my hosting? I ALSO LIKE USPS BOXES. I have waaaaaaay to many of of them. hint hint

Hey Barnetch,

Yup, as the posts above point out: whatever you want us to do, we're more then willing to help.  

My evil angle is that the less of the customer service & day to day stuff you have to deal with, the faster you'll get product out the door. Moohahaha.

Nice! I think that between all the volunteers that showed up, Barntech won't have to worry about the front end; as in: site, sales, marketing, customer education (I know I was probably a PITA when he was setting up) & customer service (which can take hours and hours), refunds, dispute resolution, having to do all the project updates...oh, all kinds of stuff.   He can tweak things or adjust things as he sees fit for the good of the Group Buy.

I believe he's already had some help with his site but perhaps you can come to an arrangement with him for some services.

If we also need $$$ to buy the chips ahead of time, I can come up with it given the headsup/

While the Cointera (was contera a purposeful misspelling?) has a 3x better GH/$ initial cost, I can't justify that level of spending myself at this time.   As a result, I'd be interested in the $550ish miner.   But that might change if I knew GH/W numbers too.

Oh, and if anyone needs a programmer to help with anything, I can offer my services.  I can also build websites, webstores, etc.  My day job involves writing and supporting the whole component stack involved in FX trading systems.

Holy cow! Who the heck wouldn't! I'd def. be interested in buying as well as helping.

bobsag3 - who has super cheap miner hosting - & I agree to be your helping hands in whatever way we can help because you're more then worthy of our support. It appears lemonte is interested as well in some way, we've been in contact & I may be vetting him shortly.

I can also speak for jungle_dave that if he has access to the right equipment/talent/software he's got some interesting ideas to improve hashrate *without* overclocking as he has a background in cryptography as an EE/Network Engineer. He's dying to work on his improvements but needs some help. You may want to speak with him about his ideas as they're over my head even though I used to run actual network encryptors/decryptors before there was Bitcoin.

I've done procurement for various R&D projects over the years so I'm not exactly a stranger to dealing with mfgs. and resellers as far as the wholesale pricing aspect.

I would be very interested in both.

Hey Zombie.

Sounds good. Always nice to have spare hands and brain to keep on top of all this stuff. Sounds like it could be good to see what we can do together. It would be nice to start seeing what kind of interest there is out there for either a fast-hash-one based project http://virtualminingcorp.com/shop1/index.php?id_category=8&controller=category, or a cointerra based project http://cointerra.com/shop/

They are both offering chips for what looks like a January delivery. The smaller size of the fast-hash-one chips is more appealing to us at this point as they can still be accessible to smaller scale miners, and most likely can be built into the expandability of our current equipment. If you are reading this and would be interested in either a $3200ish contera 500 GH/s miner, or a $550ish 32 GH/s miner, please speak up and it may come to pass.

Barntech

Hey Barntech,

As you know, I'm a fan of your work. I can help out with this project, I just can't take the lead because of prior commitments/promises. I am willing to help with sourcing some parts and soliciting quotes along with others, marketing, sales, customer service & minimal tech support. I love helping others, esp. if they're customers, so you can focus on doing what you do best.

I can also offer Escrow protected sales via BTCrow any time anyone wants, even if the Group Buy originally didn't have escrow protection. Some people just like the safety and dispute resolution process of Escrow, even if they pay a little more for it.

Perhaps we can use this thread to coalesce the first solid barebone rig attempt(s) for Cointerra and/or HashFast and gather together interested co-sellers, developers, and buyers wanting to make a reservation.

EDIT: Updated title thread to widen project scope/possibilities.

Following

Oh? Do tell! Well, privately at least.

We could still use some help trying to automate Escrowed Group Buys. As it stands now, it's all manual from the seller's POV with the semi-automated aspects - such as manual release of funds at the end of a successful Group Buy - showing on the customer's end.

PM'd you, I'm not sure about the handsome part, but I tick the other boxes and would like to put myself forward as a project manager. I've got an idea for a CRM platform that I use on another project which I think will translate well to this.

Hey Barn,

I spoke to Cointerra last week as I was considering getting a group buy going.

December delivery, no sample chips, but they will give full specs so a board can be built.

Cheers,

Interested. We are thinking about doing a Cointerra thing, but hashfast would work too if there are chips available. I have tried making contact with both and not heard back so far. Have you spoken with or had email contact with either company?

Currently our plan is a Cointerra GB with the option of hosting in small nodes spread around the place, or full units if people want them. Already have some interested parties.

Cheers.

Barntech

I would be interested in a barebones hashfast chip based rig if the right PCB maker made it.

Have you considered approaching Barntech with the idea? They seem quite open to new designs using their Drillbit system and they seem like really stand up guys to deal with!

Reserving the first 4 bare rigs to whoever's the first vetted or experienced GBC to step up to the plate.

Reserve your HashFast DIY bare rigs below to show GBCs that there's interest. At 3 months, that's about a month after expected delivery & those chips, all 4 of 'em are gonna each need a mommyboard. They're also going to need a PSU to keep it warm at night, fans to keep 'em cold at times, some RAM so it doesn't forget what it was doing...what else...

BTW, FWIW: I'd tie prices to US currency at whatever BTC value it is that day and/or time of the sale.

EDIT: Added Cointerra as an option.
9/11 Edit: Added Bitmine as discussion for possible Project Work/Group Buy.

I promised my co-op I won't take on any more Group Buys of my own at the moment.

Doesn't mean I can't help out someone or a small group that's interested in putting together a HashFast (or Cointerra) Bare Rig Group Buy, however.  

According to cypherdoc, HashFast *is* planning to ship 4X chips to customers (Woohoo for HF customers!): https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3085264

These chips are going to need a home to live. That's where these bare rigs come in. I *knew* this was coming and tried to get system builders or GBCs interested previously. Please contact me if you're a Group Buy Coordinator or a new Group Buy Coordinator that's interested in pre-planning this Group Buy with me. We need more variety on this GB forum and if you're a new GBC this is a perfect opportunity for the right person(s) to make their mark here.

Besides Coaching, Mentoring, and Pre-sales planning, I'll also provide Escrow Protected Group Buy shares for your Group Buy at half of my usual fee of 1% (BTCrow 1% fees still apply), for a total of 1.5% Escrow Coordination fees. I'll also waive my usual 0.1% Pre-Planning fee.

Please send me a PM if you're a smart, handsome, and forward looking individual that's interested in an obvious upcoming opportunity that will add value and variety to the forum. This opportunity may take a few months to coalesce, but the first mover advantages could be tremendous (ask waldohoover and Coca-Cola how well that's working out.)