First nuclear fusion ignition achieved electricity price will plummet

jamyr

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Quote

They used 2.5 mega-joules and produced 3.1 mega-joules, nearly 50%!

Forgive me but I think its closer to 25%

What an achievement for humanity. Curious coz Biden just had like the energy Agenda..
And after this announcement with the fusion breakthrough , the electrification summit..

https://www.whitehouse.gov/ostp/news-updates/2022/12/14/fact-sheet-new-innovation-agenda-will-electrify-homes-businesses-and-transportation-to-lower-energy-bills-and-achieve-climate-goals/

Flexystar

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Yup we better be focusing more on the current problems by solving the issues of energy consumption with immediate available resources rather than focusing on highly advance technology like NIF. As few folks said, its gonna take around couple of decades. I know it's good news, it will help control many things around the world from clean resources to zero carbon emission and much more. However, I am wondering what we are doing for the problems at hands? I read on the forum somewhere that people think this will help get rid off Russia issues who is not supplying the oil ands tuff. But that's not how NIF is going to work. There is still time for its actual use case projects. The infrastructure, the controlling and distribution will take lot of time.

teosanru

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Quote from: Artemis3 on December 16, 2022, 09:52:52 AM

This was announced formally on Dec 5, it is true, for the first time in human history, they were able to produce more energy than the one required to achieve the nuclear fusion reaction. It is a dream that has existed for decades, and also, it will bring very cheap electricity across the globe.

This is definitely going to impact Bitcoin mining.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmzep3YaRNI

They used 2.5 mega-joules and produced 3.1 mega-joules, nearly 50%!

Sure it will take some time to go from lab experiment to first commercial nuclear fusion reactor, but its a milestone that is definitely changing the world as we know it.

As far as I know about nuclear fusion is that it's so powerful that only a handful of reactors would be able to power up the whole world at once. So obviously the energy production it can do is massive. However I have seen a lot of articles which tell that it's not that happy a thing. These tests were done only in a lab environment altogether. So the engineering challenge to make this large scale is going to be a big task.

Mauser

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Quote from: Artemis3 on December 16, 2022, 09:52:52 AM

Sure it will take some time to go from lab experiment to first commercial nuclear fusion reactor, but its a milestone that is definitely changing the world as we know it.

This was probably one of the biggest news in 2022 and very positive news indeed. Energy prices have become a huge problem in the world over the last few years. Its not only the crypto community that is struggling with rising energy prices, the whole economy relys on affordable energy. The big question is now how fast that can be replicated in large scale and be rolled out for industrial and consumer needs. This could change a lot for the green energy approach as well. More and more fossil fuels could be left behind to use the most ecological friendly energy sources. Another issue is going to be the accessibility of the technology. Can it be used by other countries free of charge or will it be expensive to get access. Hopefully it's not going to take too long and will make energy cheap for all of us.

dansus021

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Quote from: Lucius on December 16, 2022, 10:16:56 AM

Will this option be available in the next 5 or maybe 10 years? I haven't researched, but I think I read somewhere that we are decades away from widespread use of this technology. In the context of Bitcoin mining, 99% will be mined in about ten years - so I wonder what this technology has to do with Bitcoin mining in the future?

In total consumption and impact on the environment, Bitcoin mining is at the very bottom of every scale and only complete fools make some kind of affair out of it because someone pays them or they are very limited by their brains.

Yes I hear it to on youtube, to gather energy we need a massive scale of machine, Right now The 35 nations participating in ITER are: the 27 European Union countries + (through Euratom) Switzerland and the United Kingdom + China, India, Japan, Korea, the Russian Federation, and the United States.

and yes they have said we can gather the energy around 1-2 decade after final assembly and testing

you guys can find more here https://www.iter.org/ if this really happen and worldwide building it too the price of electricity will touch to all time low haha

philipma1957

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Quote from: Lucius on December 16, 2022, 10:16:56 AM

Quote from: Artemis3 on December 16, 2022, 09:52:52 AM

This is definitely going to impact Bitcoin mining.

Will this option be available in the next 5 or maybe 10 years? I haven't researched, but I think I read somewhere that we are decades away from widespread use of this technology. In the context of Bitcoin mining, 99% will be mined in about ten years - so I wonder what this technology has to do with Bitcoin mining in the future?

In total consumption and impact on the environment, Bitcoin mining is at the very bottom of every scale and only complete fools make some kind of affair out of it because someone pays them or they are very limited by their brains.

This is yet another reason that my suggestion to 2x the 1/2 ing times yet leave the same 21 million coin payout could be a good move for BTC to do.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--5427871

if we fail to slow the payout of coins while endless power becomes available it will mean Doge becomes a much more viable option to mine.

Doge never lessens its rewards via 1/2 ing's but it does lessen its percent of increase every year.

ie year

1 = x coins
2 = 2x coins 100% increase

10 = 10x coins
11 = 11x coins 10% increase

20 = 20x coins
21 = 21x coins 5% increase.

50 = 50x coins
51 = 51x coins 2% increase

So if fusion power takes 33 years to be common and we leave BTC wit current 1/2 ing speed. the reward is only 0.0122xxx coins

doge will still increase x coins every year. so long term as you mention this favors Doge's distribution.

It means Doge is the perfect coin for mining if power is abundant .

franky1

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Quote from: Hydrogen on December 16, 2022, 06:27:59 PM

Personally, I would like steam engines to make a comeback.

they are back

the whole point is the energy conversion of fusion then heats water to power a turbine

Quote from: Hydrogen on December 16, 2022, 06:27:59 PM

If it were possible to use curved mirrors to use sunlight to heat steam inside a boiler,

the problem with your idea of using the sun and mirrors is that those engines only generate during the day

Hydrogen

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Personally, I would like steam engines to make a comeback.

If it were possible to use curved mirrors to use sunlight to heat steam inside a boiler, then scavenge exhaust water vapor inside a closed loop system to recirculate moisture. That could be a good blueprint for low carbon emission and long term reliable energy generation. While solar panels might last 20 to 40 years under optimal conditions. There are known cases of steam engines having lifespans greater than 100 years.

Metals science has advanced from the days when steam locomotives were the backbone of trade. Its possible enough progress has been made to completely replace coal as the primary energy solution for steam power.

A steam engine that needs only water and sunlight could be a decent concept worth pursuing, at least for some applications.

The next stage would be a simple battery format with a longer lifespan than current lead acid or lithium cells.

Artemis3

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Here is a very nice and detailed visual explanation from Scott Manley, worth watching in my opinion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r_EQUyu0tM

franky1

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the time delay is this

phase one show science theory to get gov science grants for R&D - done
phase two build prototype - done
phase three proof of concept - done
phase four get further R&D money to alpha test for efficiency gain
phase five get DOD grant to manufacture/beta test for military submarines
phase six sell finalised reactors to DOD
phase seven use proceeds to then expand into the business sector.

NotFuzzyWarm

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Quote from: Rikafip on December 16, 2022, 11:50:02 AM

I don't wanna be a partypooper, but I think that "take some time" is an understatement here. From what I read on the topic, this device (NIF) is not really efficient as lasers actually used 322 mega joules to deliver 2.05 mega joules of energy, which then through reaction produced 3.1 mega joules of energy. It is important achievement nevertheless , but I don't expect this to be actually used for at least couple of decades.
Anyway, who wants to read more on the subject, here is a good article that explains everything https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-04440-7

Quote from: bittraffic on December 16, 2022, 11:26:23 AM

It can only be good if it's shared with every country if it's just for the US then nothing stops OPEC countries from using fossil fuels.

Don't worry, when/if US develops such tehcnology, China will reverse engineer it. Grin

If one has been following the Fusion Power Saga for any length of time they would know that no single country holds a 'lead' in development of it nor can ever monopolize it.

As for China et al reverse engineering ANY advanced technology, knowing how to do something is only a small part of what is involved in reproducing it for themselves. It's a matter of all the industrial infrastructure having to exist for making the multitude of bits & pieces required. A prime example of that is the lithography gear used to produce IC's especially cutting edge ones. There is a reason why China has no foundries that are able to produce chips at the 7nm node using home built equipment: They would have to 1st build up far too many other industries first for them to be able to do it.

Artemis3

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Its obviously a lab test with two decades old technology. Not a ready made commercial power plant. They proved a theory that was going for more than six decades, NOW that its proven, the engineers need to figure out ways to deploy it. You are NOT going to generate power continuously by shooting lasers to little containers, so check the proposals for fusion reactors that have been going around.

Before there was no evidence that even if they built it, it would work. Now they have it. Yeah, it may be a few decades away, but its happening. Oh and they also tested materials in the process that can further benefit this.

The weapons have existed since the 40ies so there is nothing new about that (except a bit more refinement to the weapons). It was: To produce more energy than what is used into it that has been the holy grail of this matter, and that milestone has been achieved.

The first fission reaction was done in a lab in 1942, count the years it took to have commercial nuclear fission power plants since that event.

Casdinyard

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Quote from: Artemis3 on December 16, 2022, 09:52:52 AM

This was announced formally on Dec 5, it is true, for the first time in human history, they were able to produce more energy than the one required to achieve the nuclear fusion reaction. It is a dream that has existed for decades, and also, it will bring very cheap electricity across the globe.

This is definitely going to impact Bitcoin mining.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmzep3YaRNI

They used 2.5 mega-joules and produced 3.1 mega-joules, nearly 50%!

Sure it will take some time to go from lab experiment to first commercial nuclear fusion reactor, but its a milestone that is definitely changing the world as we know it.

Not only will this impact the bitcoin mining industry, this is a game-changer for energy usage itself. Right now, our most efficient nuclear power plants are still laughably wasteful, that is why nuclear fusion is a sought after form of energy resource for decades now. The claim that such feats have been made is not only monumental, but with anecdotal evidence this could mean greater improvements in the quality of living of everyone who lives on this planet. Of course there's a dire consequence to this too, as this could easily rile people to use more powerful nuclear weapons should the threat of a third world war be imminent, but I'm hopeful. I think we're on the right track here. First it will be the world, then it would be bitcoin.

Rikafip

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Quote from: Artemis3 on December 16, 2022, 09:52:52 AM

Sure it will take some time to go from lab experiment to first commercial nuclear fusion reactor, but its a milestone that is definitely changing the world as we know it.

I don't wanna be a partypooper, but I think that "take some time" is an understatement here. From what I read on the topic, this device (NIF) is not really efficient as lasers actually used 322 mega joules to deliver 2.05 mega joules of energy, which then through reaction produced 3.1 mega joules of energy. It is important achievement nevertheless , but I don't expect this to be actually used for at least couple of decades.

Anyway, who wants to read more on the subject, here is a good article that explains everything https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-04440-7

Quote from: bittraffic on December 16, 2022, 11:26:23 AM

It can only be good if it's shared with every country if it's just for the US then nothing stops OPEC countries from using fossil fuels.

Don't worry, when/if US develops such tehcnology, China will reverse engineer it. Grin

bittraffic

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The timing is so perfect. I think this is a perfect plot for spy movies once again as to whether Chinese or Russians are going to be interested to find the truth about this. They could be a good trade with hypersonic missile technology, and a nice movie plot.

It can only be good if it's shared with every country if it's just for the US then nothing stops OPEC countries from using fossil fuels.

jackg

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https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory

Quote from: Lucius on December 16, 2022, 10:16:56 AM

Quote from: Artemis3 on December 16, 2022, 09:52:52 AM

This is definitely going to impact Bitcoin mining.

Will this option be available in the next 5 or maybe 10 years? I haven't researched, but I think I read somewhere that we are decades away from widespread use of this technology. In the context of Bitcoin mining, 99% will be mined in about ten years - so I wonder what this technology has to do with Bitcoin mining in the future?

Is there a chance it'll allow the network to remain more secure after that in case price doesn't rise to compensate for it.

If a lot of people have cheap electricity (or it's dealt like similar to water and people pay flat rates regardless of how much they use, surely that'll bring something useful to the network in the form of people not having to shut down miners due to electricity rates).

This might move as quickly or slowly as investment allows it's possible it'll be doable in about 5 years to a decade of there's a lot of investment in it, but if there isn't we're looking at it taking decades- centuries to do.

Lucius

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Quote from: Artemis3 on December 16, 2022, 09:52:52 AM

This is definitely going to impact Bitcoin mining.

Will this option be available in the next 5 or maybe 10 years? I haven't researched, but I think I read somewhere that we are decades away from widespread use of this technology. In the context of Bitcoin mining, 99% will be mined in about ten years - so I wonder what this technology has to do with Bitcoin mining in the future?

In total consumption and impact on the environment, Bitcoin mining is at the very bottom of every scale and only complete fools make some kind of affair out of it because someone pays them or they are very limited by their brains.

Artemis3

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Activity: 2030

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CLEAN non GPL infringing code made in Rust lang

This was announced formally on Dec 5, it is true, for the first time in human history, they were able to produce more energy than the one required to achieve the nuclear fusion reaction. It is a dream that has existed for decades, and also, it will bring very cheap electricity across the globe.

This is definitely going to impact Bitcoin mining.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmzep3YaRNI

They used 2.5 mega-joules and produced 3.1 mega-joules, nearly 125%!

Sure it will take some time to go from lab experiment to first commercial nuclear fusion reactor, but its a milestone that is definitely changing the world as we know it.

Topic: First nuclear fusion ignition achieved electricity price will plummet (Read 213 times)