Topic: First time/Small miner reference for getting started. (Read 34169 times)

Hi guys, for small miners and beginners I am starting a project.

Here more info https://sites.google.com/view/miniminealliance

MiniMine Alliance is an initiative that aims to support small Bitcoin miners by aggregating their computing power. This allows them to participate effectively in large mining pools, overcoming the high withdrawal thresholds that often represent a significant obstacle. Through this aggregation, miners can receive their rewards faster and more efficiently.

How MiniMine Alliance works includes:

Small miner aggregation: miners with limited hashrate capabilities are organized into collective groups, operating as sub-workers within large mining pools. This allows them to reach payout thresholds more quickly.

Payout optimization: by combining hashrates, the alliance ensures a proportional distribution of rewards, with flexible payout options via Lightning Network for small amounts or Bitcoin mainnet for larger amounts.

Pool Selection and Management: Miners can choose their preferred pool or rely on MiniMine Alliance to select an optimal pool, with the possibility of dynamic reassignment to optimize collective rewards.

Additionally, MiniMine Alliance offers the ability to withdraw small amounts using the Lightning Network, making the withdrawal process more accessible and faster for small miners.

This initiative represents a significant opportunity for small Bitcoin miners, allowing them to overcome traditional industry barriers and actively participate in the mining ecosystem in a more fair and efficient way.

Yes tho the actual number of miners running world-wide is in the hundred of thousands. Only 1 miner and more to the point just 1 chip in said miner solves the block and gets the rewards. If it is a solo miner they get it all. If it is part of a pool the rewards are split amongst all miners in the pool minus a percentage taken by the pool operator.

In your opinion, after how long is it realistic to recover the investment money?

Many thanks for this mini-wiki!

Addition:

A crypto investor buddy is considering mining. I want to clarify a few preliminary items that I could not find in the Child Board “Mining Support Getting Started”:

1. Confirm: If solo mining: Full Node + mining software; mining via pool: mining software only.
2. Do GUI mining software programs exist or are they all on the BASH terminal, Powershell, etc. ?
6. Assume arbitrarily 5K miners for the entire BTC network: Does that mean that for a given block, 4,999 are NOT rewarded?

Thanks for that latest post about the competitive hardware.
I enjoyed reading all the other information and it was good to see that some people are in the same stage as I am.
There is an enormous amount of information on this forum.

Steamtyme has not been active for a very long time now, I hope he is alive and well.

It's worth mentioning that much info on this thread is outdated and shouldn't be used for reference as of today (10-17-2023) unless Steamtyme shows up to update it, some info stands correct regardless of all the things that have changed ever since but the things that changed make the overall of this topic outdated and inaccurate.

The most important outdated part of information would be the reference to the "Current list of competitive hardware", sadly with how fast things change, even the most efficient model mentioned in that article is now unprofitable to 99% of people, this topic used to be a great guide for newbies I wish Steamtyme would show up again to update it.

I am writing this a warning because I would hate for a newbie to come to view the outdated info and make decisions based on it, like buying an old S17 that runs at a loss now thinking it is the most efficient gear in the market.


 

Well for 1, see what the Beginners & Help section has...

I read all your words but still lost, I'm a bad miner i think

Sorry for the late reply. I'm not as active as I once was.
The rule of thumb would be to get as much hashrate as you can pointed to a pool, for as low a cost on electricity as you can. That is very simplistic, but you would also pick the pool that suits your needs best and point everything(all machines) there. As time goes on you may decide to split your hash but that's a future consideration.

new to BTC mining
This might be a stupid question but

What are the rules or the right way to mine???

1 miner PER POOL depending ,on the hash??

I appreciate any help

Thanks

You can go to nicehash.  Mine ETC or raven it will auto convert to btc

so technically you are not mining btc you are mining etc or raven and then automatically converting it to btc.

this section of the forum is for direct mining of btc

 not raven then btc

Read the 1st post in this thread... Specifically Mining BTC with anything other than an ASIC-based miner is out of the question.
For minable altcoins, well ask in the altcoin area of the Forum...

Hi there,

 I am just getting interested in crypto (especially Bitcoin as it's most well known) now. I have a decent (but few years old) gaming laptop...

I was wondering, is it possible to slowly mine in the background on such a computer, as a way to very slowly create my own wallet and gain I dunno... like maybe 0.001 Bitcoin at a time or something? (I understand you can sell/trade with partial Bitcoin, now)... I'm looking for a way to start small with the equipment I already have - as I'm super broke - beyond broke - and am hoping to make even a couple hundred dollars only with this (even if it takes months).

I'm regretting not purchasing bitcoin way back when I first heard about it in my University days, something like 2005~2007.... *sighs* If only!

Previously I did a light dabble into some other coin... I can't remember if it was Etherium or something else more experimental --- it had a browser addon and looked kind of like a crystal fox, maybe? Might've started with a Q? Reminds me of the GIMP (GNU/Gnome Linux free, open-source Photoshop) logo...  But I never got anywhere with that, and that was at least a few years back. My uncle had also recommended some new phone app mining program/cryptocurrency dealio that was purple, but it was so new I didn't trust it (?).

I'm not a programmer, but have often been programmer-adjacent. I'm fairly decent with computers, but still not very deep into things, though I can skim through some code, have a basic grasp of copy-paste-modify...

Basically, is there something people can point me to, a software or a wallet, that I can just turn on and have running in the background... perhaps with sliders "use 80% of resources" for when I'm doing something like writing, but then lower it down to like 10% or 5% if I'm busy gaming, streaming, editing video or something else more processor-heavy? then "100%" or even 110% if I'm just setting up and walking away?

I neither have the space nor money to set up any kind of fancy server tower.


TL;DR - Total novice when it comes to crypto, want to mine bitcoin easily to make a little cash on a LAPTOP, as insane as that might sound. Is that even possible?

If not, can someone recommend or point me to another crypto or two to look into, or another resource/website that might know something about mining the SUPER SUPER slow way with old gear?



Thanks!

There could be. I'm sure there is a slew of people out there willing to charge for this information. Biggest thing from the start, cut the AC equation that will burn all profits. It's all about taking in cooler air on one side and removing the same mass of warm air from the otherside with minimal recycle.

Electrical, anything to that scale in almost every jurisdiction I can think of would require you to have someone liscenced pull a permit for the build. It will require some back and forth with your energy provider as well to ensure you can pull that load from the grid.

The calculations are fairly easy for the rest. Depends on the miner and their stated draw. Then once you figure out your voltage you will know amperage per device then it's a game of efficiently laying them out to spread the load, while maintaining the 80% safety rule for max amps.

This would really just be a superpowered data center, so that could be a good thing to look into to get an idea. Some older threads here also have images from when businesses started up. Maybe try searching old service threads for "hosting services". Best of luck

I would like to ask a few questions on this subject.

If I want to start a small minning operation, let's say with like 100 miners or even 500 miners, I bet there are tons of calculations to perform on wattage, amperage, air flow to keep the warehouse relatively cool, obtain licences, hire specific people to "validate" electrical installation, to "validate" the A/C system, to put up a contingency plan regarding fires, like extinguishers and other means of security, hire security for the location, etc, etc.

Is there some more formal information on this? I know this will depend a lot on the country one is intending to start the mining operation, but still, I wanted to know about some generic guide or so about what might be needed for such operation!

Using profit switching outside of the pool and without being able to convert the other coins to BTC automatically is just a gamble, you may earn more or less than what you expect, another pool that offers this auto-switching + auto conversion to BTC is viabtc, in general, this whole profit switching is pretty useless as it gets saturated because millions of miners are auto-switching and thus creating that equilibrium which makes switching and no switching pretty much the same.

However, there is one expectation to this, which is rental services like nicehash, sometimes (rarely to be more accurate) nicehash can pay some crazy high amounts, I remember 2-3 years ago, the payout was like 5 times higher on their sha256 algo, ya I mean 500% more profit, it lasted for a day or two before everyone jumped in and brought the profit back to normal and then whoever was paying that much to get all the hashrate just stopped, someone was outbidding someone else who was also eager to get some hashrate (I can't recall what were they fighting over, but they were paying an outstanding amount just to get hashrate.

So if you can code something like or use Awesomeminer (no pun intended) with a threshold of say 10-20% difference, it will be worth the switch, aside from that, I don't think profit swtichng is going be worth it.

Using profit switching means you don't understand mining.

Mining on Bitcoin pools, the only difference will be the fees you pay.
You can't switch to 'lucky' pools, since luck is a measure of history and has nothing to do with the future.
There is no such thing a a pool that 'will be' lucky - that's just completely misunderstanding how mining works.

If instead you are talking about switching coins, then that's off topic here and discussion will have your posts deleted.

Hi! Thanks for taking the time to help beginners! It's truly appreciated 

I have been mining for ~2 months now with a S19j Pro 104TH and a Z15 (sorry I know this is a Bitcoin Forum so I will leave that one alone).

I have tried many pools/stratum servers/controllers but have yet to find what I'm looking for. I basically have 2 seperate questions or areas of interest:

1. Overclocking or Tweaking my hashboards to get the most optimal performance for my miner. I was super hyped to see the BrainsOS+ features for tweaking individual hash chips (3 x 126 for my miner) but the software is not compatible with my board (AMLogic).... but is compatible with Xilinx or Beaglebone. If necessary, I will just buy the 80$ control board, but would like to hear what you guys have to say about this.

2. Controlling my miner's real-time pool/coin to maximize the real-time value of my hashrate. On this subject I've gotten as far as any non-code proficient individual can... by I am not that individual. With 10 yrs coding experience, CS/Physics Degree, and amateur electronics enthusiast; I should be able to do better that to let Minerstat profit switch stupidly try to control my machine or create a stratum server that needs to be manually switched -> Stratu.ms (what's the use of having a stratum server if not to profit switch in real-time automatically... it's kind of useless if I have to be at the helm all day all night).

It's also noteable that to use profit-switching, one MUST understand what metrics are being used to evaluate switching coins. From what I can gather, most profit-switching algos (Minerstat's for sure) use the Difficulty, Network hashrate AND the real-time coin value which means that unless you are selling your mined coin in real-time this metric can be dangerously deceiving! On this note I have found Dutch Mining to at least solve that problem using the auto-convert function (at a price of 1.5%).

Soooooo, not to be tooooo gready, but here's what I would LOVE!

1. A stratum server with an API so I can write as little or as much into my own profit switching algo as I choose to. I think coupling the stratum server with the profit switcher is the most logical choice but I'd like to know if I am on the right track here.

2. An exchange service that will allow me to sell/swap/trade in real-time programatically so that the profit switching algo can use the coin value metric more precisely. And as an aside could allow me to develop a trading bot that could hedge/leverage my available margins to profit during bear/bull market fluctuations.

3. On my first question: the ability to maximize my machine's hashrate; and please don't refer me to Awsome Miner because it just isn't... awesome.

Thanks in advance for anyone that could help me along the way. I love to learn new things, and I know all the info I want is out there, but I am 45 years old with 2 children so re-inventing the wheel is really out of the question!

Thanks people!

PS: I noticed that there is a 4th com port on my Control Board... can I add a 4th Hashboard?

 @jbeckham42
17-generation is old news already.
The quality with the 17-gen. has been pretty bad...

Antminer S19 series is the current generation.

Awesome - thanks!!!  Looks like the Bitmain S17 Pro isn't available yet:  https://shop.bitmain.com/promote/antminer_s17pro/overview

Any idea when it's coming out?

For a start -- the opening post of this thread should point you in the right directions....

Can someone tell me where I can find complete information about mining, thanks

A perfect setup for me would be 100 acres of ground mounted solar panels in New Jersey.

This is around 20mega watts  divide by 6  it is 3.33 megawatts 24/7 use 80 percent safety factor it is 2.66 megawatts.

I would have only s17 pros set to low power  which is 42 th at 37 watts = 1.55 kwatts a unit.

that is  1400 pieces    1400 x 1.55 =  2.17 mega watts  gives me 0.5 mega watts spare .

I would have all antbox n5   set up   with 180 units in each.  I would have 6 of these in 1 row with 6 in a second row.

But this is all fantasy.    Would be nice to own.

I would suggest just reading through a lot of topics here in the mining section, maybe focus on mining speculation - as it's where a lot of broader or general discussion takes place, then check out mining hardware threads -Review, and gear specific announcement type threads generally have a lot of information and answers. You are already on the mining support board. Here you will find problems people ran into and possible solutions.

All in all this forum is the only additional reading I would suggest, it's where I found most of what I needed. The only thing I would say is be cautious about a large investment in hardware at the moment. The halving is coming up in a couple months time and rewards with diminish. So make sure your numbers make sense for what you expect to get out of mining - low power costs, reasonable purchase price on gear.

Edit: Tip regarding multiple posts, just use the "edit" option on your original post - it's next to "quote" and type in the additional information. The forum has rules against multiple posts in a row. Good luck. That second question by the way would be a good one to ask in the mining speculation board. You will find people with varying responses, maybe check to see if there has been a thread created already.

That is a great idea, you're right anything relevant at the moment has gone that route. I'll do that right away. I do laugh at the mini pile of PSU's I have kicking around, but I think there is a plan for next winter so maybe not a waste.

Might want to update to reflect that it looks like for the foreseeable future, most if not all miners will now have an integrated PSU as the latest from microBT, Bitmain, et al have. The beasties are just too power hungry to rely on separate ones that the user gets from who-knows-where.

I updated the section about hardware. Instead of listing the companies I linked a thread with a list if the curently competitive hardware with links to discussion, manufacturers and reviews.

I added Pangolin and Innosilicon to the list for Hardware because they have actually put a product in customers hands.

Let me know if I'm missing any others. I don't want to add anyone to the list until they have delivered a product to customers, not just review units.

Thanks I'm glad you like it.


Thanks, great catch I corrected that. Good old night shift fog.

Good primer, Merit given

One odd point in the cost equation. You end it with: =Cost per day to operate (ideally more than the FIAT value of BTC mined). That rather sounds like cost to run is more than value of coin mined.

Shouldn't that read 'ideally less than the value of BTC mined' as in you earn more than the cost to run?

Great job so far!
I gave u some merit.

This is a work in progress, if you have any suggestions or opinions on the post let me know. I'm open to editing OP with information I'm missing or a better way of describing something.

reserved

This thread is now outdated in regards to hardware mentioned and rewards at the time. Can definitely still be used as a broad overview for hobby mining.


If you are wanting to start mining here is what you need...and what you need to know

This is written for home miners/small farms, but can be used as a guideline for most operations. Use this post as a reference for what you need to research, or what questions you need to ask before jumping in.

What you need to mine can be broken down into the following categories: Hardware, Electricity, Location, Internet connection, Information

This quote by CK is a great launching point to the hardware requirements. It can be found here.


Hardware

Asic Miner: Here is a list of the companies currently manufacturing Miners for public purchase. Each one has their Pro's and Con's it is up to you to do your research and decide what is best for you. A few points to consider while researching are: efficiency, reliability, warranty period/policy, power draw. Each company has a different way of handling warranty repairs, depending on your situation and the policy repairs can become cost prohibitive. I will touch more on efficiency and power draw in the electricity section.

Current list of competitive hardware

Power supply: You will need to purchase a power supply to run your miners. You will find ATX and Server grade PSU's, the latter being preferred for mining BTC.
When it comes to selecting a PSU purchase something with a capacity 25% higher than your miner is rated to draw. This will have you operating within the 80% rule.(explained further in the electricity section)
EX. Miner draws 1000 PSU should be able to provide 1250W.

** Many current generation miners are now being manufactured with Integrated PSU. Again do your research to see if your unit comes with or without. Generally you will still need to source a power cable.**

Auxilliaries- Avalon miners require an external controller, 1 per 20 miners. You may have to run additional fans for intake and exhaust depending on your location.

PSU's can be purchased large enough to run 2 Miners; or the opposite 1 Miner fed by 2 PSU's. Ensure the PSU you have selected will have the correct amount of PCI-E connectors required to operate your miner(s)

You can also find a large supply of used miners and PSU's. Again it's up to you to do your research as these often are a no return transaction.

Electricity- Follow all local codes and regulations

This is the number 1 factor in whether mining is right for you. As discussed with Miners being a 24/7 machine drawing power those costs will make it cost prohibitive for some people to mine. You need to be aware of what your costs/KWH are and run the numbers. This will be done in a profitability calculator. This is just an example of 1 there are many out there.

(Miner usage in KW)*(Hours run per day)24*(Cost/KWH)=Cost per day to operate (ideally less than the FIAT value of BTC mined)

The second part to the electrical requirements of mining is the available service; written for North America. You will need to figure out the amperage you can spare, what circuits and receptacles you have in place, are you setting up on 220V or 110V. You will need to make sure that you have the right cord end for your PSU to match the receptacle, picking the wrong one can cost you a few days of mining if it has to be shipped.

If you can try and set up on a 220V circuit for 2 reasons. You will pull half the amps, and it is more efficient. Doing so requires 2 breaker spaces in your panel. Breaker sizing will depend on how many miners you plan to run. Here is the formula for calculating amps.

Watts/Voltage=Amps

Here is where you will bring the 80% rule back into play by sizing the continuous miner load to 80% of the breaker rating. 12 Amps on a 15 Amp breaker, 16 Amps max on a 20 Amp breaker, 24 Amps on a 30 amp breaker.

If/when you increase the amount of miners you are running you may want to look into PDU's, as opposed to more receptacles.

Location

This is something that is often overlooked to the headache and frustration of many would be miners. These machines are loud and hot. You essentially have an electric heater that also uses an industrial fan to keep it from melting itself. This space will need to have the electrical requirements as discussed previously.

So make sure you have a space that is well ventilated with a plan to exhaust heat, and bring in fresh dust free air. I say this as using AC to cool the room will eat into your profits and may even make mining unprofitable. The noise issue is a consideration you can sort out depending on whats available. (garage, basement, remote building)

Both of these issues can be handled with hosting, which is further explained in the information section.

Internet connection

Some miner setups have the option to use wifi. It is advisable to use a wired connection where available. This will provide a more stable connection and ensure you are submitting the expected amount of shares which is directly related to your payouts.

Please note that mining uses a negligible amount of bandwidth, and will not affect your other internet usage.

Information

You can use this information in this post as a good baseline to get you going. In addition to this you will want to research network difficulty; this readjusts every 2016 blocks to maintain a 10 minute block time on average. While this can go down it generally increases.

Solo or Pool?

You can solo mine but this is essentially a lottery even as a large scale miner. Should you chose this you can check this out as a starting point. [∞ YH] solo.ckpool.org 1% fee solo mining USA/DE 250 blocks solved!

Odds are most of you will join a pool. I will only say that it is in your best interest to mine at a pool that pays transaction fees (miner rewards). Then you will want to consider the fees associated with the pool. When it comes to these pools you want them to be large enough that they are getting at least 1 block every Difficulty adjustment period. Larger pools will offer smaller rewards paid out more frequently, and vice versa.