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Cricktor

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Quote from: Mia Chloe on August 16, 2024, 01:41:30 PM

Because before now I knew that the genesis block isn't spendable but I really didn't know the reason why.

The main reason why the 50BTC of Genesis block's coinbase coins aren't spendable is what ranochigo wrote: they aren't part of the UTXO set. So, why aren't those 50BTC in the UTXO set? I'm not sure if I found a good explanation, see below quote (only did a very brief search as I didn't quite remember the answer myself).

Quote from: https://gist.github.com/msinkec/5eaf5aa97ed0f5e8d66e7e32fd8b1a0a#bitcoins-genesis-block-and-coinbase-transactions

Genesis Block Coinbase Transaction: In Bitcoin, the genesis block is the first block of the blockchain. Notably, the coinbase transaction of this block is hardcoded into the Bitcoin client. This transaction is never added to the Unspent Transaction Output (UTXO) set, making its output unspendable

I'm not satisfied with this quote, as I don't see the reason why this particular UTXO isn't "parsed" and added to the UTXO set, even when the Genesis block is hardcoded in the Bitcoin node client. I remember vaguely another more reasonable explanation but can't find it atm.

To my knowledge this special case of the Genesis block coinbase UTXO is unique to it.

JiiBs

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Quote from: godot next on August 15, 2024, 06:44:14 AM

I'd like to get some proper contacts ad impressions on the ORIGINS/genesis of the technological network functionalities, not just the original fundamental idea...especially about which sources funded its development and implementations to begin with

One of the means to evaluation of a project as I know it now, haven’t been on the forum and gone through a couple of materials on the web is, to go through the white paper of these projects as well as, getting to know the developers.

Fortunately, you get the chance to know the name of the entity behind Bitcoin which is Satoshi Nakamoto but, you unfortunately, don’t get to attach a face or body to that name which have been some boost to what we have today in Bitcoin. However, there is a catch to it and that is, the Bitcoin white paper.
A white paper is like a summarized version of what a project is about which explains the technology, pathways and the problem it comes to solve. That’ll be a place to start your Bitcoin understanding.

Here is a link to look at the Bitcoin white paper:
Bitcoin: A peer-to-peer Electronic Cash System By Satoshi Nakamoto.

ranochigo

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Quote from: Mia Chloe on August 16, 2024, 01:41:30 PM

However is this particular stuff only applicable for the genesis block?
Because before now I knew that the genesis block isn't spendable but I really didn't know the reason why.

It applies for any UTXO (Unspent Transaction Output) that isn't in the UTXO set. Examples of this would be OP_Returns in modern day.

The UTXO generated in the genesis block, which is the 50BTC is actually not in the UTXO set. Perhaps intentionally or by accident. If you were to try to create a transaction spending that 50BTC, none of the nodes would accept it.

Mia Chloe

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Quote from: Cricktor on August 16, 2024, 01:33:46 PM

Quote from: Mia Chloe on August 15, 2024, 06:52:28 AM

Also , 1A1zP1eP5QGefi2DMPTfTL5SLmv7DivfNa is known as the genesis address which was the first ever address created by SATOSHI. You can make use of a Blockchain explorer to check other things about the address like transactions. If I can remember correctly I think the address should contain 50BTC which has been unspent since then.

Allow me to correct you: to my knowledge Satoshi never used public addresses. The Genesis block coinbase transaction is a P2PK transaction and also all other coinbase transaction of Satoshi Nakamoto are all P2PK (pay to public key).

So clearly the above public address technically doesn't "have" the 50BTC of the coinbase payout. The Genesis block's 50BTC can't be spent anyway, even if you had the private key. That's a peculiarity of the Genesis block's coinbase transaction coins.

You simply can't use the unlock script of a P2PKH public address to spend coins of a P2PK transaction. I know, it's nitpicking and if you had the private key, it wouldn't matter because you could sign any spending transaction which unlock script you know.

Of course I get your point.
However is this particular stuff only applicable for the genesis block?
Because before now I knew that the genesis block isn't spendable but I really didn't know the reason why.

Cricktor

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Quote from: Mia Chloe on August 15, 2024, 06:52:28 AM

Also , 1A1zP1eP5QGefi2DMPTfTL5SLmv7DivfNa is known as the genesis address which was the first ever address created by SATOSHI. You can make use of a Blockchain explorer to check other things about the address like transactions. If I can remember correctly I think the address should contain 50BTC which has been unspent since then.

Allow me to correct you: to my knowledge Satoshi never used public addresses. The Genesis block coinbase transaction is a P2PK transaction and also all other coinbase transaction of Satoshi Nakamoto are all P2PK (pay to public key).

So clearly the above public address technically doesn't "have" the 50BTC of the coinbase payout. The Genesis block's 50BTC can't be spent anyway, even if you had the private key. That's a peculiarity of the Genesis block's coinbase transaction coins.

You simply can't use the unlock script of a P2PKH public address to spend coins of a P2PK transaction. I know, it's nitpicking and if you had the private key, it wouldn't matter because you could sign any spending transaction which unlock script you know.

godot next

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its okay, i REALLY dont talk about satoshi...

guess I won't find the data i'm searching here

sorry to take your time.

decentralized, uncensorable, pseudonymous and other aspect of Bitcoin. - CURRENCY...yes these are aspects, but the reason behind bitcoin, call it an ideal if you like: WE wanna have AND store our profits/credits, independently of third parties and institutions.
(ad that is a totally legitimate goal to achieve...I very much apprechiate it myself - it's just not what I wanted to talk about - or ask you about.... Cheesy

)

you guys are funny,enjoy!

I'll ask my question again here in the end:

>does someone have a graphic depiction of the sells and buys from wallet to wallet pre-2012/even better - pre-2009??
(if yes - can I have it plz?)

ABCbits

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Quote from: godot next on August 15, 2024, 01:23:11 PM

I know that it is said: "satoshi" has so many wallets...I know it is very naiv, but if we dont know anything about him personally, why do we just go there take a whole BUNCH of different wallets, and address them all to this "satoshi" complex? - you don't need to answer that, i'm sorry, really not interested in the myth, but the ACTUAL transfer data...

I have hard time understand what exactly you're trying to say. But i think you want to read these blog post which estimate how much Bitcoin mined by Satoshi.
https://bitslog.com/2013/04/17/the-well-deserved-fortune-of-satoshi-nakamoto/
https://bitslog.com/2019/04/16/the-return-of-the-deniers-and-the-revenge-of-patoshi/

Quote from: godot next on August 15, 2024, 03:46:37 PM

or do you really wanna tell me that there was no profit motiv at all, but why then even be interested in personal ownership/store of value to begin with?

Some early Bitcoiner definitely have some profit, especially when you look at this old thread I AM HODLING. But aside from that, you missed the fact some people also interested with decentralized, uncensorable, pseudonymous and other aspect of Bitcoin.

godot next

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I know there was a lot idealism, and I do understand the Idea behind.

I still would like to get an impression of the early market behavior - the way the early owners made this MARKET happen..
not the technology via which they ran it.

there was price before 2012, and they had to establish price...and that there haven't been the big investments, is exactly what makes this period so interesting to understand the early users in comparison.

or do you really wanna tell me that there was no profit motiv at all, but why then even be interested in personal ownership/store of value to begin with?

I find it a bit strange that this question seems to confuse...I mean it is one directed at the history of BITCOIN as a community, and how this community was interacting with each other...

Stalker22

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Quote from: godot next on August 15, 2024, 01:23:11 PM

~

I dont think you really understand how this whole Bitcoin project started.

Rather than a wild goose chase analyzing blockchain data, Id suggest learning from Bitcoin's early idealists. start by reading some of the earliest posts on this forum. Specifically Satoshi's. They didnt foresee billions in market capitalization - the technology enabling a decentralized digital currency intrigued them. Youll find discussions around strengthening the protocol - no expectations of wealth or fame. The allure was in the concepts and coding.

godot next

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only 50 unspent bitcoins in total? but what about the cash flow - selling and buying from here to there when, how and how much..

im not so much interested exactly in who, but more when, how and what.

I know that it is said: "satoshi" has so many wallets...I know it is very naiv, but if we dont know anything about him personally, why do we just go there take a whole BUNCH of different wallets, and address them all to this "satoshi" complex? - you don't need to answer that, i'm sorry, really not interested in the myth, but the ACTUAL transfer data...

thank anyways...

again: I'm not so much searching for singular, somehow specific wallets or "untouched" blocks... I am more thinking about a monitoring of the overall interconnected activity back then. And then localize knots and waypoints inside of the movement.

ps.: no, i myself am not very suited to analyse such data, that is exactly why I was hoping as I said before: that someone with more effort and capability would have probably done this kind of research before. every kind of data can be converted by any kind of parameter, and money flow timeframe and location really is not a very original one don't you think - someone must have done this!

Mia Chloe

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Quote from: godot next on August 15, 2024, 07:26:09 AM

thank you,
i know that the onchain-transaction-data is public

But i toke the original idea to research the early activity on-chain
for a very at hand issue of interest, the moment you realize the quality of the network

so i simply thought:

some one with more effort and capability than me
would have already done this kind of research
and produced a mediate presentation / filing and depiction
dont you think?
i just really like the way this token functions
I wan't to get an impression and some knowledge of the people
who initiated the way the process succeeds.
im not on the hunt for any satoshi, i'd just like to get an imprint of the early network access.
(especially pre-2012)

(Mia Laughs) Obviously you aren't on the search for Satoshi anyways I don't think you are even gonna have a clue on how to get a trace. Though bitcoin is decentralised and the Blockchain very transparent and public, before Satoshi disappeared he mined over a million bitcoins but the catch is that he stored them in a ton of different addresses. So even is Satoshi is alive and he decides to spend some bitcoins from one of the few thousand wallets he stored his coins in, it wouldn't raise and suspicions because it would be like some random whale just decided to spend some coins.

Anyways BlackHatCoiner has said it all if you are looking for more information on this feel free to make use of the forum search function.

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Just search this forum. There are thousand of discussions made before and during the 2012.

Quote from: Mia Chloe on August 15, 2024, 06:52:28 AM

If I can remember correctly I think the address should contain 50BTC which has been unspent since then.

Correct. Those 50 are unspendable. This address isn't known to be created by Satoshi. Addresses like this one are (representations of) public key hashes, while the genesis block reward was sent to his public key: https://mempool.space/address/04678afdb0fe5548271967f1a67130b7105cd6a828e03909a67962e0ea1f61deb649f6bc3f4cef38c4f35504e51ec112de5c384df7ba0b8d578a4c702b6bf11d5f. It's the Bitcoin community that later hashed his public key and derived the address. (For reasons yet unknown?)

godot next

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thank you,

i know that the onchain-transaction-data is public

but i toke the original idea to research the early activity on-chain
for a very at hand issue of interest, the moment you realize the quality of the network

so i simply thought:

some one with more effort and capability than me
would have already done this kind of research
and produced a mediate presentation / filing and depiction

dont you think?

i just really like the way this token functions
I wan't to get an impression and some knowledge of the people
who initiated the way the process succeeds.

im not on the hunt for any satoshi, i'd just like to get an imprint of the early network access.
(especially pre-2012)

Mia Chloe

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Well op I'm not sure what you really need the earliest bitcoin transactions for. However you can find them on the block chain. All you have to do is make use of a bitcoin block chain explorer. Below is the transaction hash of one of the earliest bitcoin transactions from I think satoshi to Hal Finney.
f4184fc596403b9d638783cf57adfe4c75c605f6356fbc91338530e9831e9e16

Also , 1A1zP1eP5QGefi2DMPTfTL5SLmv7DivfNa is known as the genesis address which was the first ever address created by SATOSHI. You can make use of a Blockchain explorer to check other things about the address like transactions. If I can remember correctly I think the address should contain 50BTC which has been unspent since then.

godot next

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hi people, I've been trading bitcoin with growing interest for a while now and am really starting to enjoy its patterns, I'd like to get some proper contacts ad impressions on the ORIGINS/genesis of the technological network functionalities, not just the original fundamental idea...especially about which sources funded its development and implementations to begin with. - does someone have a well done enzyclopedia of the first transactions ad their identifications and locations, as far as possible?

i'd be very grateful
cheers.

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