F*#king merit system but we have to live with that… (poll added)

chem96

full member

Activity: 1330

Merit: 217

https://lifinity.io/

Quote from: emile12 on May 22, 2018, 01:47:43 PM

it's a good idea, but in real, there is a low number of merit to distribute, so what will you do if at the end of the bounty

you have 80% of people who have 0 merit? you will give 0 token? and the 20% will share the treasure?

Right only 20% will share the bonus and nothing for the rest. but you have to take in consideration that's a bonus for a Signature campaign. Not intended for a whole bounty

emile12

full member

Activity: 392

Merit: 127

it's a good idea, but in real, there is a low number of merit to distribute, so what will you do if at the end of the bounty

you have 80% of people who have 0 merit? you will give 0 token? and the 20% will share the treasure?

pandaki85

jr. member

Activity: 41

Merit: 1

Quote from: chem96 on May 14, 2018, 02:20:58 AM

Quote from: pandaki85 on May 14, 2018, 01:44:55 AM

Quote from: chem96 on May 09, 2018, 06:14:35 AM

Quote from: pandaki85 on May 08, 2018, 11:50:17 PM

Merit is good to protect bitcointalk from a lot of spammers. Many people just make a lot spam posts everyday to pump their activity and get higher rank there. But I'm sure there will be lots of people selling "merit" services in the near future.

a post like yours? Cool

Do you think my post is spam? Cry

I think you can copy-paste your post in any thread speaking about merit...

But it's certainly not your intention, so don't take it personally.

Thank you for your advise, I will try to post something valuable in the threads. Again, thank you for.

krishnaverma

full member

Activity: 1442

Merit: 108

Quote from: Q2kc on May 11, 2018, 11:54:49 PM

this idea is good, but what will happen if someone will abuse the merit system, someone can give 50 merits some users are abusing the merit system https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/list-users-that-are-abusing-merit-system-2823221

If someone keeps repeating this on large scale. he might get noticed and then painted red by mods. But there are some other issue here which also need to be addressed like :

1) What about the merits lost in the whole process ? Those were meant for genuine posts from good users. Any compensation done for that ?

20 It was introduced to fight against spam. But still see a lot of spam going out in the forum.

chem96

full member

Activity: 1330

Merit: 217

https://lifinity.io/

Quote from: pandaki85 on May 14, 2018, 01:44:55 AM

Quote from: chem96 on May 09, 2018, 06:14:35 AM

Quote from: pandaki85 on May 08, 2018, 11:50:17 PM

Merit is good to protect bitcointalk from a lot of spammers. Many people just make a lot spam posts everyday to pump their activity and get higher rank there. But I'm sure there will be lots of people selling "merit" services in the near future.

a post like yours? Cool

Do you think my post is spam? Cry

I think you can copy-paste your post in any thread speaking about merit...

But it's certainly not your intention, so don't take it personally.

pandaki85

jr. member

Activity: 41

Merit: 1

Quote from: chem96 on May 09, 2018, 06:14:35 AM

Quote from: pandaki85 on May 08, 2018, 11:50:17 PM

Merit is good to protect bitcointalk from a lot of spammers. Many people just make a lot spam posts everyday to pump their activity and get higher rank there. But I'm sure there will be lots of people selling "merit" services in the near future.

a post like yours? Cool

Do you think my post is spam? Cry

chem96

full member

Activity: 1330

Merit: 217

https://lifinity.io/

Quote from: Q2kc on May 11, 2018, 11:54:49 PM

this idea is good, but what will happen if someone will abuse the merit system, someone can give 50 merits some users are abusing the merit system https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/list-users-that-are-abusing-merit-system-2823221

yes it's a risk but it's also a risk for him to get caught and red-trusted

Q2kc

member

Activity: 560

Merit: 15

$100k per 1 BTC in Year 2020

this idea is good, but what will happen if someone will abuse the merit system, someone can give 50 merits some users are abusing the merit system https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/list-users-that-are-abusing-merit-system-2823221

chem96

full member

Activity: 1330

Merit: 217

https://lifinity.io/

Thanks to those who completed the survey

the merit system does not seem to have a great popularity... Tongue

As a reminder, I think this system now exists and will no longer be removed.
So we might as well look at ways to use this system

chem96

full member

Activity: 1330

Merit: 217

https://lifinity.io/

Quote from: pandaki85 on May 08, 2018, 11:50:17 PM

Merit is good to protect bitcointalk from a lot of spammers. Many people just make a lot spam posts everyday to pump their activity and get higher rank there. But I'm sure there will be lots of people selling "merit" services in the near future.

a post like yours? Cool

pandaki85

jr. member

Activity: 41

Merit: 1

Merit is good to protect bitcointalk from a lot of spammers. Many people just make a lot spam posts everyday to pump their activity and get higher rank there. But I'm sure there will be lots of people selling "merit" services in the near future.

chem96

full member

Activity: 1330

Merit: 217

https://lifinity.io/

Quote from: cryptoworld9x on May 08, 2018, 06:27:49 PM

I don't think your idea is good for any signature campaign. In my opinion, they should be that mix of posting and merits. I mean that, you can earn 1-10 merits at 1 week to have more prize instead of only posting. As we know, signature campaign used for increasing the awareness of project, services - this is promoting. And you can imagine that, 100 people join Alt signature campaign, so almost of them make some quality post - i said that, quality post but they still don't receive Merits ( because of this is depend on people like their post or not ). And they have a lot of quality post, then they receive nothing or a little, even they have high rank? Do you think they willing to join to your campaign at next week?

Here the Merit is just a bonus in addition to the normal signature bounty. I put an example in my first message. It should help to better understand the idea

PS: this is my 1000th message on this forum

Grin

cryptoworld9x

member

Activity: 196

Merit: 10

I don't think your idea is good for any signature campaign. In my opinion, they should be that mix of posting and merits. I mean that, you can earn 1-10 merits at 1 week to have more prize instead of only posting. As we know, signature campaign used for increasing the awareness of project, services - this is promoting. And you can imagine that, 100 people join Alt signature campaign, so almost of them make some quality post - i said that, quality post but they still don't receive Merits ( because of this is depend on people like their post or not ). And they have a lot of quality post, then they receive nothing or a little, even they have high rank? Do you think they willing to join to your campaign at next week?

NickCliar

newbie

Activity: 29

Merit: 0

If merit will be part of award at the end of the campaign then it would be amazing and hunter will be encourage to make their posts ever!!

KingScorpio

sr. member

Activity: 1470

Merit: 325

Quote from: chem96 on May 08, 2018, 10:07:59 AM

I just added a poll, thanks for the participation

Wink

hmm you brought me just on a good idea

chem96

full member

Activity: 1330

Merit: 217

https://lifinity.io/

I just added a poll, thanks for the participation

Wink

KingScorpio

sr. member

Activity: 1470

Merit: 325

Merit in Real World:

you cant defeat the merit system or rank up in it if you arent super über super gay for a very loooooong time,

best bet is to simply join and grow with a new community. its like with those armies they get dissolved and new structures are beeing created where the young ones have opportunities to be creative, and not just constantly listening on the "older" more "meritet" ones

chem96

full member

Activity: 1330

Merit: 217

https://lifinity.io/

Yes, Thank you.

Like always a good example is worth a thousand words!

I updated the first post with the exemple.

What I like with this approach is that it gives another "legitimacy" to the merit system and also allows newbee (copper member) to participate in a campaign with a better earning expectation if they really make quality posts

claudiotiego

full member

Activity: 630

Merit: 154

Corl - Growth Capital on the Blockchain

Quote from: chem96 on May 02, 2018, 12:15:57 AM

So in my example the Newbee copper member wins 666.6 Token and the Legendary nothing.

Now I understand your suggestion and it's make sense. It will encourage participants to create posts with higher quality, to receive more tokens from bounty pool.

PS: I don't like baits, you could change topic title.

suchmoon

legendary

Activity: 3654

Merit: 8909

https://bpip.org

Quote from: chem96 on May 02, 2018, 01:17:29 AM

No merit Pool but Token pool.
you earn Token not Merit

Ok, this makes more sense now. That's not as prone to merit abuse than I originally thought. The campaign itself doesn't deal with merits so that's good. Participants would be inclined to earn merits even if they already have a high rank. Some might resort to shady ways of getting those merits, but overall this is probably better than a typical rank-based campaign where you could just enroll with a bought account and shitpost away.

Quote from: LoyceV on May 02, 2018, 02:51:37 AM

And I don't think this will work. Most bounty participants have 0 merit, because their posts aren't worth it. I'm also pretty sure many bounty participants use many different accounts, and if they have higher hevels, they have sMerit to give. That would mean they can merit their alt accounts, to earn more tokens from the Token pool.

Once the "airdrop" sMerits run out it won't be easy to merit their alts. The OP can come up with some restrictions to discourage alt-merits, e.g. ignore merits sent between campaign participants. Might be harder to track though.

chem96

full member

Activity: 1330

Merit: 217

https://lifinity.io/

Quote from: LoyceV on May 02, 2018, 02:51:37 AM

Quote from: chem96 on May 02, 2018, 01:17:29 AM

No merit Pool but Token pool.
you earn Token not Merit

First: I don't think this belongs in Meta, the way you distribute your tokens has nothing to do with the forum itself.

And I don't think this will work. Most bounty participants have 0 merit, because their posts aren't worth it. I'm also pretty sure many bounty participants use many different accounts, and if they have higher hevels, they have sMerit to give. That would mean they can merit their alt accounts, to earn more tokens from the Token pool.

no merit = no gain.

Concerning the problem that someone who has several alts distributes merit to himself, yes it's a risk but it is also a risk for him to get caught and red-trusted.
I would say status-quo.

I can also imagine defining rules. for example: merit > 10 on a post will be count with a maximum value of 10 merit.

LoyceV

legendary

Activity: 3290

Merit: 16489

Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Quote from: chem96 on May 02, 2018, 01:17:29 AM

No merit Pool but Token pool.
you earn Token not Merit

First: I don't think this belongs in Meta, the way you distribute your tokens has nothing to do with the forum itself.

And I don't think this will work. Most bounty participants have 0 merit, because their posts aren't worth it. I'm also pretty sure many bounty participants use many different accounts, and if they have higher hevels, they have sMerit to give. That would mean they can merit their alt accounts, to earn more tokens from the Token pool.

sparg

full member

Activity: 280

Merit: 110

I think it is a good idea but you will not have any success with it.
Most of the campaigns now only require a certain number of posts because they are after the awareness.
Most of the participants do their posts (this is the main problem of spamming) without any research in order to get to their post count as fast as they can.
So if I have to choose from a campaign that requires post count and your campaign for sure I will go towards the first one because is simpler to achieve.

Dont get me wrong, you have my full support for this but in an ecosystem based on spam for the bounty I don't think it will work.

chem96

full member

Activity: 1330

Merit: 217

https://lifinity.io/

Quote from: Bershie on May 02, 2018, 01:01:54 AM

Quote from: chem96 on May 02, 2018, 12:15:57 AM

-snip

Sounds like a good idea. But how can you fund the pool? Merits is only limited now a days but if you can fix that? I should say " Where can i sign up?"

No merit Pool but Token pool.
you earn Token not Merit

Bershie

jr. member

Activity: 125

Merit: 1

Quote from: chem96 on May 02, 2018, 12:15:57 AM

I see a lot of misunderstanding. Well the idea doesn't seem to be easy to understand or is poorly explained.

I'll use an example:

Imagine a bounty campaing with 5000 Token (whole budget). We will have a bonus Merit campaign with 1000 token to distribute.

Here the statistics of the 5 participants, at the beginning of the campaign:
- John; full member ; 100 Merit
- Bob: member; 51 Merit
- Alice: member; 10 Merit
- Termos: Legendary; 3004 Merit (?)
- Dekafe: newbee copper Member; 0 Merit

Here the statistics of the 5 participants at the end of the campaign:
- John; full member ; 102 Merit
- Bob: member; 59 Merit
- Alice: member; 12 Merit
- Termos: Legendary; 3004 Merit
- Dekafe: newbee copper Member; 24 Merit

Number of merit won by all participant during the campaign: 2+8+2+0+24= 36 Merit

This is what each participant will get as a token bonus at the end of this bounty:
(your Merit earned / total Merit earned from all participants) * Token Merit Pool.

- John; full member ; (2/36)*1000= 55.5 token
- Bob: member; (8/36)*1000= 222.2 token
- Alice: member; (2/36)*1000= 55.5 token
- Termos: Legendary; (0/36)*1000= 0 token
- Dekafe: newbee copper Member; (24/36)*1000= 666.6 token

So in my example the Newbee copper member wins 666.6 Token and the Legendary nothing.

I hope it helps

Sounds like a good idea. But how can you fund the pool? Merits is only limited now a days but if you can fix that? I should say " Where can i sign up?"

chem96

full member

Activity: 1330

Merit: 217

https://lifinity.io/

I see a lot of misunderstanding. Well the idea doesn't seem to be easy to understand or is poorly explained.

I'll use an example:

Imagine a bounty campaing with 5000 Token (whole budget). We will have a bonus Merit campaign with 1000 token to distribute.

Here the statistics of the 5 participants, at the beginning of the campaign:
- John; full member ; 100 Merit
- Bob: member; 51 Merit
- Alice: member; 10 Merit
- Termos: Legendary; 3004 Merit (?)
- Dekafe: newbee copper Member; 0 Merit

Here the statistics of the 5 participants at the end of the campaign:
- John; full member ; 102 Merit
- Bob: member; 59 Merit
- Alice: member; 12 Merit
- Termos: Legendary; 3004 Merit
- Dekafe: newbee copper Member; 24 Merit

Number of merit won by all participant during the campaign: 2+8+2+0+24= 36 Merit

This is what each participant will get as a token bonus at the end of this bounty:
(your Merit earned / total Merit earned from all participants) * Token Merit Pool.

- John; full member ; (2/36)*1000= 55.5 token
- Bob: member; (8/36)*1000= 222.2 token
- Alice: member; (2/36)*1000= 55.5 token
- Termos: Legendary; (0/36)*1000= 0 token
- Dekafe: newbee copper Member; (24/36)*1000= 666.6 token

So in my example the Newbee copper member wins 666.6 Token and the Legendary nothing.

I hope it helps

criz2fer

full member

Activity: 672

Merit: 127

Quote from: TryNinja on May 01, 2018, 11:49:10 AM

OP = you. Lauda is saying that this is a great way of giving merit to alts while pretending you are meriting legitimate users. And that's the issue. Maybe you really want to motivate and reward users who do HQ posts, but someone else could steal your idea to merit his fake accounts and rank up without risking a negative trust. Basically "~~money~~ merit laundering".

Another way around for a understanding
OP=Original Poster (just to remember it more)

The idea could be great. Kindly clear if this Merit Pool your saying is another extra payment or a distribution of sMerit.

But, allocation of it may mix up your computation by the end of the campaign. Rather than doing a calculated pool, it would be nice if you may fix the rates

LTU_btc

legendary

Activity: 3234

Merit: 1375

Slava Ukraini!

Sorry for little off-topic. You're planning to become bounty manager, but you are confusing Merit and sMerit, you don't know some pretty basic things like what words OP and alts means. Are you sure that you're ready to become bounty manager? And I'm not sure that I understand your idea correctly. From where you will get enough sMerit to pay it to participants?

Lauda

legendary

Activity: 2674

Merit: 2965

Terminated.

Quote from: suchmoon on May 01, 2018, 01:36:58 PM

It still doesn't make sense. It should be sMerits in your pool. I think. Maybe I'm missing something.

And how are you going to fill the pool?

Pump up one of the main accounts in the ring of farmed accounts by sending it a lot of merit under the pretense of creating a pool. I'm getting good at predicting the future.

suchmoon

legendary

Activity: 3654

Merit: 8909

https://bpip.org

Quote from: chem96 on May 01, 2018, 10:34:18 AM

Quote from: TryNinja on May 01, 2018, 10:31:58 AM

I believe you're confusing Merit with sMerit.

Merit is what you receive.
sMerit is what you can give.

So, basically your idea is to give a bonus payment for those who get merits while in your campaign?

Yes, sorry I'll fix that

It still doesn't make sense. It should be sMerits in your pool. I think. Maybe I'm missing something.

And how are you going to fill the pool?

zool2003

jr. member

Activity: 126

Merit: 3

Joe's Signatureless Challenge

Quote from: chem96 on May 01, 2018, 10:25:47 AM

OK it’s a hook but let me explain my idea.

In short time I'll maybe start managing a bounty campaign. (in negotiation)

My idea is to use the Merit as metrics, respectively to allocate a budget for the Merit and distribute it to members who have collected Merit during the signature campaign.

Goal: motivate people to write quality posts and create some hype. --> Merit is very controverted and I think we could be the first campaign to run a Merit campaign

Distribution at the end of the campaign Merit pool distribution: (your Merit earned / total Merit earned from all participants) * Merit Pool.

What do you think?
Some campaign already used this system?
Do you see weakness?

Thank you in advance for feedbacks

edit: sMerit -->Merit

Great to be thinking of new ways of getting the posts up but it defiantly wouldn’t work as people with alts would be to tempted to pass them around.

One way or another it would be just the same as selling merit which wouldn’t make anything any different.

DdmrDdmr

legendary

Activity: 2338

Merit: 10802

There are lies, damned lies and statistics. MTwain

I would add a couple of things to consider in addition to your base idea:

1. Consider whether you should set a minimum amount of merits per rank in order to participate. If the idea is that the campaign be visible through people that get merited, then you probably don’t want to counter balance that with many users that lack having a track for receiving merit, which tends to be correlated to the degree of posting interest.

2. If you do eventually set minimums per rank, you may need some stats to help you to finetune those minimums, knowing what the maximum number of potential participants could look like.

3. Merit is already being traded and/or abused in someways. This may be more so for some when additional income is a function of achieved new merit. That is no easy to control. Perhaps it can be specified in your rules that if would lead to disqualification, but then you would have to review the gained merit and become judge and jury.

chem96

full member

Activity: 1330

Merit: 217

https://lifinity.io/

OK Alt = alternative account and not Altcoin. got it Cheesy

Right is a risk. I'll think about this problem

TryNinja

legendary

Activity: 2758

Merit: 6830

OP = you. Lauda is saying that this is a great way of giving merit to alts while pretending you are meriting legitimate users. And that's the issue. Maybe you really want to motivate and reward users who do HQ posts, but someone else could steal your idea to merit his fake accounts and rank up without risking a negative trust. Basically "~~money~~ merit laundering".

chem96

full member

Activity: 1330

Merit: 217

https://lifinity.io/

Sorry all, I wanted to talk about merit and not smerit. I edited the first post.

The idea is to set up a bonus based on the merit collected during the campaign and not just to make a campaign focused on merit.

@Lauda: I don't exactly understand what OP means, nor the problem of merit being distributed to guys who sometimes post in threads other than BTC. And if they want to receive merits, they will certainly have to post in the BTC thread... Wink

Lauda

legendary

Activity: 2674

Merit: 2965

Terminated.

Seems like a good way to covertly deploy merit to your alts[1] under the pretense of "quality-campaign contributions". Thus, I'm going to say 'No' to this suggestion.

[1] Not implying that OP has alts; it's just a thought of one the (bad) things that this would set the precedence for.

mdayonliner

copper member

Activity: 630

Merit: 420

We are Bitcoin!

Quote from: chem96 on May 01, 2018, 10:25:47 AM

In short time I'll maybe start managing a bounty campaign. (in negotiation)

I hope you get the assignment, good luck for that.

To give you the feedback: It will be your management. You keep the right how you manage it. If the participants agree with your terms, you will hire them and if they don't then don't hire. I am sure you won't have the problem of not having enough participants. There are lots of members in the forum are looking for bounties.

sncc

hero member

Activity: 536

Merit: 513

Assuming that the OP's idea is a bonus payment by sMerits, I am not sure what the sMerit pool is. Do you mean hiring merit sources for the bounty ... ?

The Sceptical Chymist

legendary

Activity: 3528

Merit: 7005

Top Crypto Casino

Yeah, I don't understand the "use smerit as a metric" thing or what exactly you intend to do with it.

Merit is already being used somewhat by campaigns managed by Yahoo62278, but not in the way it seems like you intend to do. He offers higher rates to users who have more merits (not smerits), and he has his own campaign where acceptance into it is based on a minimum amount of merits.

DarkStar_ keeps track of Chipmixer participants' merits but doesn't use it for any purpose beyond bragging (rightfully so) about the quality of their posts.

If you come up with a clever idea, go for it. I don't understand exactly what you're planning here, but if it's a good idea I'm sure other people will emulate you. Maybe you can explain a bit more.

chem96

full member

Activity: 1330

Merit: 217

https://lifinity.io/

Quote from: TryNinja on May 01, 2018, 10:31:58 AM

I believe you're confusing Merit with sMerit.

Merit is what you receive.
sMerit is what you can give.

So, basically your idea is to give a bonus payment for those who get merits while in your campaign?

Yes, sorry I'll fix that

TryNinja

legendary

Activity: 2758

Merit: 6830

I believe you're confusing Merit with sMerit.

Merit is what you receive.
sMerit is what you can give.

So, basically your idea is to give a bonus payment for those who get merits while in your campaign?

chem96

full member

Activity: 1330

Merit: 217

https://lifinity.io/

OK it’s a hook but let me explain my idea.

In short time I'll maybe start managing a bounty campaign. (in negotiation)

My idea is to use the Merit as metrics, respectively to allocate a budget for the Merit and distribute it to members who have collected Merit during the signature campaign.

Goal: motivate people to write quality posts and create some hype. --> Merit is very controverted and I think we could be the first campaign to run a Merit campaign

Distribution at the end of the campaign Merit pool distribution: (your Merit earned / total Merit earned from all participants) * Token Merit Pool.

What do you think?
Some campaign already used this system?
Do you see weakness?

Thank you in advance for feedbacks

edit: sMerit -->Merit

EXEMPLE:

Quote

Imagine a bounty campaing with 5000 Token (whole budget). We will have a bonus Merit campaign with 1000 token to distribute.

Here the statistics of the 5 participants, at the beginning of the campaign:
- John; full member ; 100 Merit
- Bob: member; 51 Merit
- Alice: member; 10 Merit
- Termos: Legendary; 3004 Merit (?)
- Dekafe: newbee copper Member; 0 Merit

Here the statistics of the 5 participants at the end of the campaigns:
- John; full member ; 102 Merit
- Bob: member; 59 Merit
- Alice: member; 12 Merit
- Termos: Legendary; 3004 Merit
- Dekafe: newbee copper Member; 24 Merit

Number of merit won by all participant during the campaign: 2+8+2+0+24= 36 Merit

This is what each participant will get as a token bonus at the end of this bounty:
(your Merit earned / total Merit earned from all participants) * Token Merit Pool.

- John; full member ; (2/36)*1000= 55.5 token
- Bob: member; (8/36)*1000= 222.2 token
- Alice: member; (2/36)*1000= 55.5 token
- Termos: Legendary; (0/36)*1000= 0 token
- Dekafe: newbee copper Member; (24/36)*1000= 666.6 token

So in my example the Newbee copper member wins 666.6 Token and the Legendary nothing.

Topic: F*#king merit system but we have to live with that… (poll added) (Read 923 times)