Author

Topic: For miner who don't mine 24hrs a day (Read 237 times)

newbie
Activity: 22
Merit: 2
February 21, 2022, 10:02:27 PM
#14
EDIT: Whenever you begin mining (in a PPLNS system), your shares start being counted there. Even if you know N, there is no point whatsoever in pool hopping - this is because no matter when you join, your share won't change. You can see this clearly because N makes the round time constant - instead of random, like with proportional.

A miner could switch from one Prop pool to to another, to another based on block freshness and use PPLNS as a last resort when
nothing is fresh. Knowing N can determine how long a block is considered fresh enough for Prop.



This is true, but compared to the rest of the miners on the PPLNS pool, they're not getting rewarded unfairly. If some people are still running proportional payout systems even though it's fucked like it is - that's kind of their issue, and has nothing to do with the safety from hopping PPLNS provides.
full member
Activity: 1424
Merit: 225
February 21, 2022, 12:08:23 PM
#13
EDIT: Whenever you begin mining (in a PPLNS system), your shares start being counted there. Even if you know N, there is no point whatsoever in pool hopping - this is because no matter when you join, your share won't change. You can see this clearly because N makes the round time constant - instead of random, like with proportional.

A miner could switch from one Prop pool to to another, to another based on block freshness and use PPLNS as a last resort when
nothing is fresh. Knowing N can determine how long a block is considered fresh enough for Prop.

newbie
Activity: 22
Merit: 2
February 21, 2022, 11:45:17 AM
#12
PPLNS was created to close an exploit in proportional-style payouts, where you could join the pool which solved the most recent block (and as such, their share counters reset.) The reason this works is because *if* the pool gets another block quickly, the "new" miner who just joined will receive an unfair portion of the payouts compared to those who had been mining for a longer period of time. If the pool did not find another block "quickly" (as defined by your pool hopping algorithm), then you would switch to the next pool which found the most recent block, and repeat.

The reason this doesn't work with PPLNS, even if you know the value of N, is because you cannot force a payout "round" to be short. The last N shares are unaffected by any found blocks, therefore no counters are reset. It is, in effect, a rolling window of time. No matter when you join/leave, you're not going to gain an unfair advantage.

I agree with most of that. Where I disagree is Prop is random, based only on blocks. PPLNS has a non random factor N
whose value is not publicly available. They both can be gamed just like any lottery, but in lotteries and Prop, all the variables
are known or available to all. In PPLNS N is only known to some.

That "rolling window of time" is regular as defined by N while block time is strictly random. That gives those who know the
value of N an advantage. You can still time your mining to maximize the values of your shares if you know N.
If N was public it would be fair.

 

... you just said right there, block time is strictly random. This means, because proportional starts counting everyone's work when they mine a new block, this means the round length is indeed random. Now, you can definitely figure out N if you care enough, but it doesn't matter, as long as N is large enough and does not change.

EDIT: Whenever you begin mining (in a PPLNS system), your shares start being counted there. Even if you know N, there is no point whatsoever in pool hopping - this is because no matter when you join, your share won't change. You can see this clearly because N makes the round time constant - instead of random, like with proportional.
full member
Activity: 1424
Merit: 225
February 21, 2022, 11:40:59 AM
#11
PPLNS was created to close an exploit in proportional-style payouts, where you could join the pool which solved the most recent block (and as such, their share counters reset.) The reason this works is because *if* the pool gets another block quickly, the "new" miner who just joined will receive an unfair portion of the payouts compared to those who had been mining for a longer period of time. If the pool did not find another block "quickly" (as defined by your pool hopping algorithm), then you would switch to the next pool which found the most recent block, and repeat.

The reason this doesn't work with PPLNS, even if you know the value of N, is because you cannot force a payout "round" to be short. The last N shares are unaffected by any found blocks, therefore no counters are reset. It is, in effect, a rolling window of time. No matter when you join/leave, you're not going to gain an unfair advantage.

I agree with most of that. Where I disagree is Prop is random, based only on blocks. PPLNS has a non random factor N
whose value is not publicly available. They both can be gamed just like any lottery, but in lotteries and Prop, all the variables
are known or available to all. In PPLNS N is only known to some.

That "rolling window of time" is regular as defined by N while block time is strictly random. That gives those who know the
value of N an advantage. You can still time your mining to maximize the values of your shares if you know N.
If N was public it would be fair.

 
member
Activity: 208
Merit: 10
February 21, 2022, 09:38:32 AM
#10
PPS is better if you don't plan on mining for long time per day, PPLNS has a better advantage if you plan on mining for a long time with no electricity break down, after using both methods I believe PPS is still better.
newbie
Activity: 22
Merit: 2
February 21, 2022, 08:33:17 AM
#9
It depends on what you mean by best. The intent of PPLNS is to discourage pool hopping and
reward long term mining. Whether it accomplisehes that is hard to say.

What I don't like about PPLNS is that they select which shares will be counted based on some algorithm.
Anyone who knows the details of the algorithm, specifically the value of N, can time their mining
sessions accordingly to gain an advantage.

PPS decouples the payout from the mining and pays a set amount for each share, like Nicehash does,
Prop is pure pooled mining where everyone gets a their fair share based on blocks found.



That's not true, about PPLNS - that exploit is exactly why PPLNS exists.

PPLNS was created to close an exploit in proportional-style payouts, where you could join the pool which solved the most recent block (and as such, their share counters reset.) The reason this works is because *if* the pool gets another block quickly, the "new" miner who just joined will receive an unfair portion of the payouts compared to those who had been mining for a longer period of time. If the pool did not find another block "quickly" (as defined by your pool hopping algorithm), then you would switch to the next pool which found the most recent block, and repeat.

The reason this doesn't work with PPLNS, even if you know the value of N, is because you cannot force a payout "round" to be short. The last N shares are unaffected by any found blocks, therefore no counters are reset. It is, in effect, a rolling window of time. No matter when you join/leave, you're not going to gain an unfair advantage.
member
Activity: 759
Merit: 15
February 10, 2022, 06:07:22 AM
#8
Even i don't mine 24 hours a day i take advantage of the hours of sunshine thanks to solar panels i believe that for a few graphics cards or a single rig there is not a big difference between pps and ppnls
donator
Activity: 4760
Merit: 4323
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
February 09, 2022, 02:39:03 PM
#7
PPS decouples the payout from the mining and pays a set amount for each share, like Nicehash does,
Prop is pure pooled mining where everyone gets a their fair share based on blocks found.

I would agree that PPS is likely the best choice given OP's desire to mine on and off regularly.  Nicehash is also a great pool depending on if your miner plays nice with it or not.  I've found for GPUs, Nicehash works great and is very reliable.  The PPS method will also make it so that you aren't being penalized every time you pause mining for a bit and a block is found. 

I wouldn't go with the suggestion of trying out each different type for a day.  Likely, pool luck would be the determining factor there.  PPS is in my opinion the best way for you to go given your scenario, so Nicehash would be my suggestion for your given scenario. 
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1131
February 09, 2022, 12:54:14 PM
#6
For someone who doesn't mine every time to time maybe 15hrs in a day is PPS or PPLNS they best?
for one video card the difference will be very small
member
Activity: 368
Merit: 15
February 08, 2022, 03:32:17 AM
#5
You might not get the actual answer you are looking for, why don't you give it a try yourself and use timing to calculate, maybe mine using PPS pool for a day and the next day switch to PPLNS pool and compare the rewards.
legendary
Activity: 3808
Merit: 1723
February 07, 2022, 10:27:11 PM
#4
In the long run it won’t make a difference. So you can do either or. Especially for a coin like Ethereum which has very short block times. For BTC it might have an impact if you get on a pool with bad luck on a particular day and doesn’t find any blocks.

I used to mine also not 24 hours. Basically in the Summer it got very hot during certain hours that I had to turn off rigs because they were getting too hot and needed the power for an air conditioner. And the profitability wasn’t really all that different.
member
Activity: 438
Merit: 27
February 07, 2022, 12:08:16 PM
#3
For a small miner it doesnt really make a difference.
When you mine from 10 to 12m using PPLNS, you can get payed even at 12.30, when your rig is off.
full member
Activity: 1424
Merit: 225
February 07, 2022, 11:01:00 AM
#2
It depends on what you mean by best. The intent of PPLNS is to discourage pool hopping and
reward long term mining. Whether it accomplisehes that is hard to say.

What I don't like about PPLNS is that they select which shares will be counted based on some algorithm.
Anyone who knows the details of the algorithm, specifically the value of N, can time their mining
sessions accordingly to gain an advantage.

PPS decouples the payout from the mining and pays a set amount for each share, like Nicehash does,
Prop is pure pooled mining where everyone gets a their fair share based on blocks found.

jr. member
Activity: 110
Merit: 1
February 07, 2022, 10:42:37 AM
#1
For someone who doesn't mine every time to time maybe 15hrs in a day is PPS or PPLNS they best?
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