form 4684 | Bitcointalksearch.org

AndrewBUD

hero member

Activity: 1078

Merit: 502

Quote from: ArticMine on August 28, 2012, 01:59:31 PM

Quote from: fcmatt on August 26, 2012, 08:47:48 PM

a farm sounds like serious mining. i am referring to people with 1-9 gpu making a few extra hundred dollars per month.
i doubt many of us report that.

I mine Bitcoins and Namecoins with 1-2 GPU and I will certainly be reporting my Bitcoin and Namecoin mining income to the CRA here in Canada at tax time.

What in the hell for? so you're going to add like 100 bucks a year to your Tax return Tongue

SMTB1963

member

Activity: 100

Merit: 10

Quote from: Vladimir on August 26, 2012, 08:36:00 PM

http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/article/0,,id=241961,00.html
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4684.pdf

Silver lining and all that....

It appears that US residents can claim ponzi scheme losses as theft and get it written off taxes.

LOL, just because there's an IRS form for ponzi (and other casualty/theft) losses doesn't mean claiming such a loss via that form will survive IRS scrutiny. I can state unequivocally that filing that form (and it's required child forms) in order to claim a deduction in that loss category will damn near guarantee a whole 'nuther level of IRS scrutiny. Anyone who makes such a claim in relation to their BTCST account better make damn sure they've got all their ducks in a row.

(ducks...get it?) Grin

But thanks for the post, Vladmir...it definitely plants another seed for even more BTC drama in the future. About a year from now, there will be a bunch of naive pussies on the forum screaming about how some guy on the internetz told them they could fill out a form to reduce their tax burden - but now they're being audited!!!

Roll Eyes

420

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 500

Quote from: bitlane on August 28, 2012, 04:40:47 PM

A good enough Lawyer can make a million+1 arguments in support of Bitcoin monetary value (as a commodity to begin with), if looking to completely DESTROY someone who has ripped you off.

Think about it:

Is a horse that is born in your stables to one of your mares worth less than a foal that you purchase for cash ?

If I board my horse somewhere and agree to allow the stable the use of my horse for public riding in their interest, by their clientele, in order to offset feeding costs, or they agree to continue to feed the horse for free......are they allowed to let it die from starvation ? or ride off with it and steal it ?

can you rephrase, I'm not quite understanding the example

bitlane

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

I heart thebaron

A good enough Lawyer can make a million+1 arguments in support of Bitcoin monetary value (as a commodity to begin with), if looking to completely DESTROY someone who has ripped you off.

Think about it:

Is a horse that is born in your stables to one of your mares worth less than a foal that you purchase for cash ?

If I board my horse somewhere and agree to allow the stable the use of my horse for public riding in their interest, by their clientele, in order to offset feeding costs, or they agree to continue to feed the horse for free......are they allowed to let it die from starvation ? or ride off with it and steal it ?

420

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 500

Quote from: fcmatt on August 28, 2012, 03:24:26 PM

Quote from: ArticMine on August 28, 2012, 01:59:31 PM

Quote from: fcmatt on August 26, 2012, 08:47:48 PM

a farm sounds like serious mining. i am referring to people with 1-9 gpu making a few extra hundred dollars per month.
i doubt many of us report that.

I mine Bitcoins and Namecoins with 1-2 GPU and I will certainly be reporting my Bitcoin and Namecoin mining income to the CRA here in Canada at tax time.

yea me too. if i find a nickel on the ground i report it.

in case the eye rr ss is reading this

HAHAH!

sunnankar

legendary

Activity: 1031

Merit: 1000

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 26, 2012, 10:08:22 PM

It can't be both ways. It can't be "not money" when it comes time for deductions and "oh yeah it has value" when it comes time to pay taxes.

Actually, you would be surprised what reasonable legal and tax arguments could be made because Bitcoin and bitcoins are such a nebulous 'thing', there are no hard defined rules and so reasonable minds can differ on approaches to take and how they should be applied. Bitcoin, for a creative accountant, tax lawyer or estate planner can be an incredibly powerful tool.

ArticMine

legendary

Activity: 2282

Merit: 1050

Monero Core Team

Quote from: fcmatt on August 28, 2012, 03:24:26 PM

Quote from: ArticMine on August 28, 2012, 01:59:31 PM

Quote from: fcmatt on August 26, 2012, 08:47:48 PM

a farm sounds like serious mining. i am referring to people with 1-9 gpu making a few extra hundred dollars per month.
i doubt many of us report that.

I mine Bitcoins and Namecoins with 1-2 GPU and I will certainly be reporting my Bitcoin and Namecoin mining income to the CRA here in Canada at tax time.

yea me too. if i find a nickel on the ground i report it.

in case the eye rr ss is reading this

Lets keep this to the tax implications of pirateat40 and Bitcoin Savings and Trust. My take is that if the IRS ever audits pirateat40 dba Trendon Shavers they will have a field day. Furthermore the tax liabilities may well far exceed USD 0.05.

fcmatt

legendary

Activity: 2072

Merit: 1001

Quote from: ArticMine on August 28, 2012, 01:59:31 PM

Quote from: fcmatt on August 26, 2012, 08:47:48 PM

a farm sounds like serious mining. i am referring to people with 1-9 gpu making a few extra hundred dollars per month.
i doubt many of us report that.

I mine Bitcoins and Namecoins with 1-2 GPU and I will certainly be reporting my Bitcoin and Namecoin mining income to the CRA here in Canada at tax time.

yea me too. if i find a nickel on the ground i report it.

in case the eye rr ss is reading this

ArticMine

legendary

Activity: 2282

Merit: 1050

Monero Core Team

Quote from: fcmatt on August 26, 2012, 08:47:48 PM

a farm sounds like serious mining. i am referring to people with 1-9 gpu making a few extra hundred dollars per month.
i doubt many of us report that.

I mine Bitcoins and Namecoins with 1-2 GPU and I will certainly be reporting my Bitcoin and Namecoin mining income to the CRA here in Canada at tax time.

420

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 500

Quote from: mufa23 on August 27, 2012, 04:41:19 PM

Quote from: fcmatt on August 26, 2012, 08:47:48 PM

a farm sounds like serious mining. i am referring to people with 1-9 gpu making a few extra hundred dollars per month.
i doubt many of us report that.

I am making about $400/month.

I assume I will have to report a couple thousand dollars for my taxes next year. I am exchanging into USD, and it's sent to my bank. So I guess they'll see that and wonder what's up. Can I write off the power costs and GPU costs though? (USA btw)

no. keep your money

mufa23

legendary

Activity: 1022

Merit: 1001

I'd fight Gandhi.

Quote from: fcmatt on August 26, 2012, 08:47:48 PM

a farm sounds like serious mining. i am referring to people with 1-9 gpu making a few extra hundred dollars per month.
i doubt many of us report that.

I am making about $400/month.

I assume I will have to report a couple thousand dollars for my taxes next year. I am exchanging into USD, and it's sent to my bank. So I guess they'll see that and wonder what's up. Can I write off the power costs and GPU costs though? (USA btw)

420

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 500

Quote from: koin on August 26, 2012, 09:30:21 PM

Quote from: Vladimir on August 26, 2012, 08:36:00 PM

It appears that US residents can claim ponzi scheme losses as theft and get it written off taxes.

too bad bitcoins aren't money and don't qualify Roll Eyes

qualify for what?? taxes

zebedee

donator

Activity: 668

Merit: 500

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 26, 2012, 10:08:22 PM

Quote from: koin on August 26, 2012, 09:30:21 PM

Quote from: Vladimir on August 26, 2012, 08:36:00 PM

It appears that US residents can claim ponzi scheme losses as theft and get it written off taxes.

too bad bitcoins aren't money and don't qualify Roll Eyes

Bitcoins have value or do you think the IRS won't want their cut if your bitcoins are worth $50M USD someday?

It can't be both ways. It can't be "not money" when it comes time for deductions and "oh yeah it has value" w:-8hen it comes time to pay taxes.

You're new to this tax thing aren't you? Tongue

I swear when I make capital gains the government is suddenly my best friend, but if I make a loss they don't want to know me.

DeathAndTaxes

donator

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1079

Gerald Davis

Quote from: koin on August 26, 2012, 09:30:21 PM

Quote from: Vladimir on August 26, 2012, 08:36:00 PM

It appears that US residents can claim ponzi scheme losses as theft and get it written off taxes.

too bad bitcoins aren't money and don't qualify Roll Eyes

Bitcoins have value or do you think the IRS won't want their cut if your bitcoins are worth $50M USD someday?

It can't be both ways. It can't be "not money" when it comes time for deductions and "oh yeah it has value" when it comes time to pay taxes.

koin

legendary

Activity: 873

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Vladimir on August 26, 2012, 08:36:00 PM

It appears that US residents can claim ponzi scheme losses as theft and get it written off taxes.

too bad bitcoins aren't money and don't qualify Roll Eyes

fcmatt

legendary

Activity: 2072

Merit: 1001

a farm sounds like serious mining. i am referring to people with 1-9 gpu making a few extra hundred dollars per month.
i doubt many of us report that.

vampire

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Quote from: fcmatt on August 26, 2012, 08:38:36 PM

Heh! Like people have been reporting earnings anyways... No way i would fill out such a form and have the irs take a closer look.

I have been. Most of my bitcoin farming was reported on my LLC tax, and so far I am just breaking even at best.

fcmatt

legendary

Activity: 2072

Merit: 1001

Heh! Like people have been reporting earnings anyways... No way i would fill out such a form and have the irs take a closer look.

Vladimir

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 1001

-

http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/article/0,,id=241961,00.html
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4684.pdf

Silver lining and all that....

It appears that US residents can claim ponzi scheme losses as theft and get it written off taxes.

Topic: form 4684 (Read 2251 times)