Topic: Fortune Jack forced me to gamble even after I told them I had a gambling problem (Read 1382 times)

Exactly... I can understand that FJ wants to cut down on transaction fees so that people don't use them as some sort of wallet service without any fees. However, to force an addicted gambler into gambling is just unacceptable.

This proves that all the gambler anonymous links that they put on are just there as a placeholder... They legit don't care about their players.

Why not just charge tx fees, and avoid all this 5x wagering requirement?

i was surprise to see this kind of rules in a casino. forcing someone to gamble (without a bonus) just to meet 5x wagering requirement (to be able to withdraw) is a big no in my opinion (OP doesnt even have a single bet and just want to withdraw his Own fund)  scamming at its finest.

Actually almost all Bitcoin Casinos do this... Read the terms of service. I can not help how people have rated me first of all. I did not promote a Ponzi scheme and if you look further into it you would realize that these people are just saying stuff to say stuff... I gave them a way I have made quite a bit of money... so just because others say things before looking into it is not my fault

I think this is a great learning experience for all of you that are saying negative things about casinos. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DEPOST AT ANY CASINO! OF COURSE CASINOS HAVE THE HOUSE EDGE!!! Why would a casino just want to loose money? Makes absolutely NO sense that anyone would want to open a casino and just pay money to people to play there... Come on... He could have read the terms and conditions... It is no one's fault but their own that they didn't read what they agreed to when signing up... A gambling addict would definitely know the rules. I do feel sorry for all of those out there that can not figure out that you have to read terms and conditions before you spend your money places. You can not go and buy an excessive amount of things with your credit card turn around and try to return them to places that have no returns and then blame a shopping addiction... Come on... He has a gambling addiction but didn't gamble he just wanted his money back? Let this be a lesson to him and all those out there... If you have a gambling addiction contact the casinos in advance and tell them that you have a gambling addiction and would like to never be able to deposit at their casino. 

So this means the entire (going by my example above) 5 BTC would have to be wagered 5x over. Right?

This is an evil scam of the evilest kind.

I hope gamblers will come to their senses and avoid injecting their coins in these casinos. It's a unwinnable game, no matter how you play your cards. It's like a legal scam. A tolerated and licensed one.

It's not winnings. It's the actual deposit. Which is fucked.

"Wagering requirements apply before any deposit made on Member Account can be withdrawn. The deposit amount must be turned over 5 times before your withdrawal request will be approved. Wagering requirements can be met by playing on slots, casino games and games."

Check their Terms & Conditions: https://fortunejack.com/help/terms

Let me try to understand this. Ok we have that 5x wagering requirement as a condition for withdrawals. Since it was sneakily included in the fine print, can anyone enlighten me if this scenario is allowed:

Say, I deposit 5 BTC. So now I play and win 0.2 BTC and decide to retrieve the entire 5.2 BTC. I now have to somehow overcome this 5x wagering requirement. If for example I bet or wager 0.001 x 5, this obviously satisfies that requirement. Can I then withdraw? Assuming I lost those entire 0.001 x 5 = 0.005 bets I would still have 5.195 BTC available for withdrawal. Will they now allow me to withdraw or do they have more sneaky rules to lock your money?

I commend FJ for doing the right thing here. At least the pressure from this community help MrMisley to get his funds back. I think you should review the 5x wagering requirement and I don't know if this is the norm for other "trusted" casino's as well.

To the OP, I hope you get the needed support for your gambling. I will not preach about the bad side of it, as we all know that already. But admitting that you have gambling problem is a step toward in the right direction. We wish you well and really hope that you quit the game for good. Goodluck to You.

Hello, everyone

We have made a ONE-TIME exception and MrMisley has been refunded because there happened to be an overall misunderstanding from both sides.
We do not reverse the opinion that they were lying to our support representative about their gambling addiction right after they lied about activating the 1st deposit bonus, when they clearly did not, as they did not meet the rules stated for its activation.
As it has already been said before, gambling addiction is something we are aware and serious about, it should never be a false reason to go around our rules clearly stated under the T&Cs page, which must be respected if one decides to accept them from the beginning, same behaviour will not be tolerated twice.
MrMisley, you were able to finally withdraw, because your withdrawal request was declined several times and by our request, our tech team manually altered the system for you separately to be able to go around 5x wagering rule. By the time this happened, unfortunately, you had already lost part of the amount. Our tech team still managed to alter the system before you lost all of your funds.
Support team will be waiting for MrMisley to withdraw their refund amount from us and the account will be permanently closed.

About 5x wagering rule, it has been there for months already, it is not understandable why it is a problem now, all of a sudden when it was not from the beginning. 5x wagering requirement is not roguish or too high and will stay as our rule to protect FortuneJack of money laundering.

Thank you for your support and suggestions everyone.

Kind Regards,
FortuneJack Team

Bullshit. Should be entitled to his funds back FJ is a complete con
Guy needs a breaks yes he has problem but should be able to change his mind and withdraw
Well don't for the willpower buddy

I was forced to play there even after I told your CS numerous of times I didn't want to play there, and I had a gambling problem. Please feel free to post the entire chat log so everyone can see word for word. Your CS continued to reverse my withdrawal insisting that I must wager it 5X which is roguish. To top it off your CS lied to me by saying the system wouldn't allow him to process a withdrawal that wasn't wagered 5X. But after losing 75% of my deposit and not even coming close to 5X wager your CS processed my withdrawal. I hope everyone sees how shady this outfit is and shame on you Natalie for not doing the right thing here!

Personally I think this is disgusting behaviour. Forcing an addict to gamble is crazy, why not offer them a refund minus TX fee?

Totally unreasonable behaviour. I think this alone deserves some DT negs

What does he get for the 5x wagering requirement? I'd say close to nothing, just a free withdrawal which would have cost him only like 0.0005 BTC anyways. But he has everything to lose, he could likely lose his entire balance in the process of trying to just withdraw.

You could have handled the situation much more appropriately by letting him withdraw, but charging him a small fee to cover the transaction fee. Especially after he said that he had a gambling issue, you should have helped him out.

This just suggests to me that you do not care about the people who essentially gave you everything that you have right now.

I have mentioned this again and again.. there should be a dedicated thread titled Hall of Shame meant for errant casinos. A kind of Oscar award for scheming casinos. The evil kind of Oscar, that is.

The 5x wagering requirement is a calculated and pernicious tactic to bring revenue to these casinos. The odds are almost always against the gambler. Wagering 5x will almost always guarantee that the house sweeps and retains the entire deposited funds. Even with their claims of provable fair gaming, I am not convinced they can't foresee or predict the outcome. The provably fair model is based on the premise that the past is a predictable event and as a consequence of this, the future can be just as easily predicted, given complete information (which they of course have). Thus the 5x wagering requirement is unlikely to give the gambler the upper hand.

Listing these casinos on some kind of blacklist or watchlist should give advance information to potential bettors before they make that fatal mistake of irrecoverably sending coins to the gambling den's address.

If you consider it from a statistical standpoint, the amount one would charge for the average transaction @ the best rates right now would be about .001 for the 226 byte transaction. Since one needs to wager their deposit 5x, that means that to break even on just the txfee you have to have a deposit of exactly .02. Think about this for a second. Any amount greater than 0.02 BTC means that you are losing [statistically] a higher amount than the withdrawal fee.

---

Consider a 1 BTC deposit, which isn't a lot. Wagering 5 BTC on their 1% edge dice game results in an expected value of -0.05 BTC. For a 1 BTC deposit, shredding 5% of it for a withdrawal fee is insane. It's literally a hidden deposit/withdrawal fee.

Why tf are you defending fortunejack here, first of all? Your crap doesn't sound very convincing at all with your neg trust for promoting a ponzi.

Everyone except for you, apparently. I do this all the time, if i don't feel like risking my money today. This should be common sense, a 5x wagering requirement without any reward at the end is completely delusional. You are likely to lose it all before you even hit that 5x wagering requirement.

The free withdrawals and deposits thing is just an excuse for having this outrageous requirement. Why can't they just charge users for their withdrawals instead of doing this? Nobody else in the industry does it.

Apple must not fall far from the tree. Your aunts are cheap and the casinos don't want loiters with $20 to spend... they want gamblers... It is a business and people spending money in hopes of winning money is how they make their money!

Good thing we all have free will to choose what we spend our money on right??

Just read a reply from fortunejack what you are saying is if someone wants to withdraw their funds they need to wager is 5x even if they didn't activate the bonus. That is pure manipulation of online gambling having 5x wager is fine when someone takes bonus but just from a normal deposit that is insane you are a scam indirectly i don't know why people still gamble on your site.

You sound like the complete newbie idiot that you are. I have aunts who will going into a casino and with $500 and only wager $20 if they lose they stop playing...

You all need to learn about rules If you don't read the T&C then for the rest of your life you will have to deal with this same stuff over and over again. If you are over the age of 10 and still just signing up for stuff and putting your name on stuff you are going to continue to be posting on this site forever asking people why you should have to read the T&C... Idk in the real world we read them to make we understand Terms and Conditions. Like if you drink and drive you get a DUI... that's stated hidden in the "t&c" of the DMV. Come on people. Take responsibility. So any casino mentioned you can just deposit into not play and withdraw to another wallet all fees paid??  I would like to see the licenses for these casinos (they probably are not licensed).

I just have to ask this as well... who would deposit 1 BTC and then not be there to play at least 5x's that. The people that are upset are the people they were forced to make these terms for... I have never seen a "gambler" walk into a casino with $5000, play 1 game, cashout and leave... Give me a break LOL 

Day 2: FortuneJack still hasn't replied/gave two shits about the accusation.I don't understand what makes people think they're still reliable.If customer service is their least priority,they should state that upfront.

As far as I know,there was no such bonus given to the OP and he deserves to get his coins back without a doubt.

And company needs to fix on their terms and conditions maybe ? A reputable site doesn't have a scam accusation opened against them every week or so.The user can do whatever he wants provided he is not allowed access his own funds.

So you're telling me one has to lose money to win money at fortunejack ? Utter bullshit! FortuneJack can come up with any rules to steal bitcoins from innocent users,doesn't mean they should.Only outcome we see from the case is,avoid the accused casino at any costs.

That's seems incredibly bullshit. When a user deposits money into any casino, real life or online he should be expected to be able to withdraw all of that money, unless he activated some kind of bonus which requires him to gamble all of his money.

I've played at Bitsler, bitdouble and a couple of times I've deposited Bitcoin, and then regretted my choice and withdrew my money.

I'm with kyraishi, Fortunejack, I would provide this guy with a full refund of his coins.

Dick move at best, total scam at worst.

I'm pretty sure that no one else other than them ask their users to gamble 5x before they are allowed to withdraw. Even regulated fiat casinos aren't allowed to do this, but apparently they are allowed to do it. I play at PD, i play at bitsler, i play at CG because i know that i don't have an obligation to bet anything and can pull out whenever i want to.

Plus, this guy told you that he had a gambling problem. But you still told him to go gamble anyways?

FJ, if i were you i would at least compensate this person partially. Your rule about 5x wagering requirements is BULLSHIT.

However why does FJ have a 5x wagering requirement? This is total BS, isn't it? I don't use FJ myself but i'm pretty sure none of this shows up when you deposit and they show you the address and it is buried probably way down in their T&C that nobody reads.

When i deposit money into a casino, i expect to be able to take it out at any time. This is my money. It's not the casino's.


Do we even get any bonuses for wagering 5x? Wagering requirements are usually only used when there is a bonus, but this is just to withdraw. If someone deposits 1 BTC and wants to withdraw, they'd have to wager 5 times their balance. You guys get 0.05 BTC thereotically, way more than enough for tx fees.

I'd rather you charge us the tx fees than you having this stupid wagering requirement that no one agreed to.

@OP, i'm sorry for your loss. I know gambling can be extremely addictive. I would suggest putting your BTC in a multisig wallet which can only be unlocked in you and someone else you trust both sign for it.

Seriously... If someone you know has a gambling problem tell their Mommy or Daddy to take away all their access to finances that can fund their habit. Come on people. When will people put on their big boy/girl pants and admit that they are the ones that fucked up. JF is not a place for people to launder their BTC through free of charge or pay you for the fees you lost out on when you sent your BTC deposit to them. Come on... It is stated clearly in their terms of service and if you are too dim witted or ass backwards on life to realize it... welcome to the real world... no one cares about you losing money at a casino they never asked you to join or deposit to and they TRIED to help by asking if you would like them to close your account. You would not be complaining if you hit a jackpot now would you? Claiming it's their fault you are now $1000s richer. 
Fortune Jack Casino is a reputable good casino that explains everything up front and I am sure has to deal with a lot of players complaining about their addiction to giving them money  Suck it up! Don't dwell on it LEARN FROM IT! STOP GAMBLING 

LOL what a fucking joke, when did rollovers on deposited money become normal and acceptable?? 

Why the fuck does anyone play on a site that has this??

I don't personally buy the gambling problem shit, I think its more likely he's a bonus whore but that shouldn't actually matter.  He didn't get the bonus now he doesn't want to play on your site and you did force him to gamble.  That's shady AF and really all that matters IMHO.

The whole we need 5X rollover or people will treat us like a charity is an utterly ridiculous statement, period.  In the extremely unlikely event you actually need 5X rollover then you're doing it VERY wrong FFS.  It's quite clearly a way to maximize profit per customer because you could simply charge the tx fee for anyone withdrawing below a 5X threshold.......

No one in the world would walk into a B&M casino that wouldn't let you leave with your money WHENEVER you wanted.  Yet the crypto world see's this in online gaming as fucking normal...

My brain hurts...

This is just not ethical to require wagering requirement on deposits without any bonuses attached it just used to collect even more money for the casino.
Coinroyale casino also pays fees for their players always with top priority and never required to wager deposit x amount of times to be eligible to withdraw and they have 0.001 bitcoin minimum withdraw amount and you can deposit 0.01 and withdraw 0.001 to 10 addresses instantly.
Its getting worse and worse to play at Fortunejack, you are acting like you are the only bitcoin & altcoin casino out there.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not...

Fortunejack is a pretty reputable site and member here. The fact that the user has a gambling problem is not the fault of the company. The user needs to work on fixing himself by not gambling.

Furthermore, Fortunejack explained that the user had a reason to be pent up with anger -- he didn't get his bonus. I think that's the real reason he made this post, not because of the 5x thing. Plus he should have read the conditions before putting money in.

A 5x wagering requirement is surely not in accordance with Curacao law and if he tells you that he has a gambling addiction problem, you are obligated to close his account and give him his deposit back!

Totally with you here. I now recall on another thread someone pointing out the 3x deposit wager rules of one site, and a person with a FortuneJack sig thought it was okay. Now I understand why... FJ has a 5x wager requirement!

We need to home in this point: no site has the right to confiscate anyone's funds! Especially since this requirement is so unusually high, it should be printed clearly and legibly when new players deposit so they know what they're getting themselves into.

Yes, he broke the rules. Punish him for it. Levy an admin fee, that's fair for the inconvenience. But it's never right to take a person's money, not even if he was wrong.


Dear Natalie,

Advise you to revisit your casino's justifications and/or stance on two points:

1. You no longer allow withdrawals without 5x wagering because you pay all tx fees for your players? Are you saying that this is your method of covering transaction fees? Here's what's fair and correct: get players to pay their own tx fees.

2. Indeed, you do have a responsible gambling section that states: "At FortuneJack, we care about our customers...Due to our commitment and dedicated [sic] to every customer, FortuneJack takes steps to help players enjoy their hobby responsibly. If you are experiencing difficulties through playing with us, we urge you to get in touch with our customer support team to combat future issues."

From the conversation, I see no effort from FJ to do as it commits. It didn't take any steps or offer any support. I can't speak about the legitimacy of the claim, but I could see no effort made from your side to investigate. Instead, you offered one route: to close the account with funds on it.

Either you care, or you don't.

There is a story above you. You might want to read it first.
He went there and deposited for the bonus. He just want the bonus and nothing more but he cant withdraw if he dont play.
Unluckily, he lost and maybe turned on his greedy side and that is his gambling addiction.
Poor one wants his money back caiuse he just sant to withdraw after getting the bonus.

The point is,what kind of rule is that ? Sounds like something a communist government would ask you to do.
It's his money,he sends to an address and now he doesn't want to use the service.Should a company give his money back or look for ways to steal his money ? And FYI,reputed casinos don't steal from gambling addicts,they help gambling addicts.

Well, I have a gambling problem too so I see where the poor guy is coming from.  But the rules are the rules about the rollover.  Otherwise, anyone could say they have a gambling problem and avoid the rules.  Natalie why don't you post your proof that the guy was lying?

Ridiculous ! How can they be so mean ?
It's your money,you have an addiction and they are asking you to not move over your addiction because they want whatever is deposited on the website ? Either way,fortunejack isn't a small time scam.They have involved with shady behaviour in the past and they continue to do so.

Are you retarded ? How can their terms and conditions be more important than someone's life ? OP should really sure the casino!

Maybe his instincts kicked in when he tried to gamble ? Whatever the problem,it's his money and they should refund him!!

Are you trying to say that you registered at fortune jack casino just to tell them that you have addiction problem?

Natalie, I have said numerous of times your support is poorly trained. Whatever the reasons MrMisley had once he told your support that he had a gambling problem his account should have been blocked. Apparently your agent allowed him to continue to gamble. THIS IS A BIG NO NO! I for one think you all should refund MrMisley deposits. As he stated he didn't make any bets but was refused to cashout even after saying he had a gambling problem. MrMisley, you should contact their licensee and report this as well. They should NOT allowed you to wager after telling them you had a problem...

Your 5 times wager requirement in order to cashout is predatory and no court of law would allow such a thing...

In Fact you yourself is being a poor REP now Natalie, Instead of you trying to defend your support agent's actions. You should be wondering why the OP account wasn't closed when He said he had a problem. To me it seems like you are poorly trained as well. OP is entitled to a refund. Your own terms says this "You are free to close your Member Account at any time by contacting Customer Support in writing. These Terms and Conditions shall be considered terminated as soon as the Account has been closed. The Member shall indicate to us if the Account closure is related to gambling addiction."

The OP contacted support via Chat (writing) and told them he had a gambling problem. But your agent didn't close his account but kept reversing his original deposit back. This is a BIG NO NO!

I want to hear an answer from them now gambling I had a friend who had gambling problems and is horrible to see him gambling. I cant imagine someone forcing him to gamble when he dont want to.

I found something interesting on here
Let say, i made a new account on FJ,  have deposited 1 btc - doesn't activate deposit bonus - made a bet (YOLO) on 90% winning chance  - won, it would make my balance become 1.1 btc, but i can't withdraw my 1.1 btc before wagering 5x from my deposit amount?

If that's true. You are forcing people to gamble.

P.S i never gamble on FJ until now.

Hello, MrMisley

My name is Natalie and I am the current community manager and a representative for FortuneJack casino here at Btalk.
Very sorry to hear about your recent experience, but kindly restrain yourself from making false accusations using a conversation with our support, which is out of context and does not tell the whole story.
Let me explain to the other forum members what has happened.
MrMisley has contacted us asking help about their first deposit bonus, which he did not get because he did not activate it on time, this was explained to him in details. Even after we checked with our dev team he kept saying that he did activate the bonus, which is not true, thus he became upset and decided to take back the funds he has deposited.
Unfortunately to him, we no longer allow withdrawals without 5x wagering, which is legit as we pay all transaction fees for our players from our end. This was also explained as you already see in the conversation above.
In addition, if anyone is interested, we can provie proof, screenshots, that bonus was not active + chat conversation with the bettor above.
We care about our bettors, thus we do have Responsible Gambling section included on our main page - https://fortunejack.com/help/responsible_gambling
Gambling Addiction is not something to make fun of and we do understand that, but it can not be a false reason to trick FortuneJack into being a charity organization.

Yours in gambling,
FortuneJack Team

This is interesting,  but it's true, they're not in business to give a fuck about your gambling addiction.   Those last bets didn't kill you, drive you to the poor house,  and hopefully didn't trigger you to gamble more.  Suck it up, take what's left and don't go back.  They didn't scam you.  They have their impersonal rules you and every other problem gambler have to abide by.

FYKI fortunejack is not a scam gambling platform, The condition of withdrawal must be met, its your problem if you have a gambling problem, no one is your well wisher here, FJ here is to make money and they have set rules for it, You must had looked at the wagering condition before deposit there.

All Your Fault, Gambling platforms are not Human Help organisation nor gamcare (www.gamcare.org.uk ).

I made a deposit at Fortune Jack and decided not to play there and decided to cashout. I did not make a single bet. MY withdrawal continue to be reversed. CS agent Robert insist that I must wager 5x in order to withdrawal. I explained to Robert that I have a gambling problem and do not wish to play any and proceeded to withdraw again. CS Robert again reversed my withdrawal and said I must wager 5x.

MrMisley
 
i have a gambling addiction problem



i need help



Robert
 
Do you want us to close your account with funds on it?


MrMisley
 
i requested a cashout



Robert
 
Yes and I have provided you rules for withdrawal.

 
Cashout you have requested will be cancelled.


MrMisley
9:13 pm
so you are forcing someone with a gambling problem to gamble anyways? Are you promoting that?


After no choice but to play I lost 75% of my deposit and proceeded to cashout in which i didn't wager 5 times. This time when I went to CS Roberts. He went ahead and processed it. Even though I didn't wager 5 times my deposit.

obert
 
Your withdrawal was confirmed.


MrMisley
 
no i lost money when i should have not been allowed to gamble

 
i told you i had a problem and you did not help me. I have the chat log to show you do nothing to help me. When i cashout you kept reversing it