Topic: Fortunejack - confiscation of my winnings (Read 1368 times)

Oh sorry, they did, actually. He'll be in holiday break until mid of this month [I guess he's part of the skeleton crew during Christmas holiday and now it's his turn], so we won't hear from him for at least until mid January. He's interested with the proposal, but it's out of his hand. He'll bring it to the table, but he sincerely doubt that the management would approve. I believe you can understand that it involves customer's data protection from their perspective. Especially as the case was already tried by an independent and more competent arbitrator.

they didn't answer anything?

I've sent them a PM aside from mentioning them here, just in case. But yeah, I can understand if they feel reluctant to provide such sensitive information to an unknown [and uncertified] third party, be it with the data owner's consent or not. I am hoping they will weight the benefits of having this "retried" with a chance of having the case with an added "bonus" as them being perceived as very transparent with the whole process.

Awesome proposal, heads off to you holydarkness. Now we only need FJ to play ball and send you the "evidence". I am sure you will make a fair and unbiased ruling.
Somehow I have doubt though, meaning that FJ will actually agree to this. Maybe they will argue with "privacy reasons" and so on but since OP gave his consent there is nothing to worry about. I hope I am wrong since this proposal would be the perfect chance to finally get this resolved in a good matter . Let's see what they say and let's hope they won't drag their reply into the next month or something.

ADante through FortuneJack, I am well aware that conventionally, once a ruling made by an ADR, the forum adhered to their findings and ruling and take it as the verdict that applies. But is it possible to take a small change and get it resolved amicably, yet irrefutably by having me to look into that file you gave CG?

I know and can perfectly understand your platform [and as a professional business entity with all of their responsibilities] reluctance, privacy and all, but I think this is a good way to meet OP in the middle and a show of good gesture [since you actually, by tradition, don't have to] that his case is treated beyond fairly and as clear as a moissanite.

And like what I said to OP, I know I don't have much to vouch myself, only that I give you my word that I'll stand from neutral ground and I'll just look at it for investigative purpose. I will not use it in any means of harm, disabuse it, or all.

Do you mind to consider this proposal?

What I have in mind is me having a clearer insight [hopefully a very clear insight] of what actually happened with those... one person this and brother that and snippet this and record that, and then explain to the forum as someone who stand in the middle and see most of the facts laid in front of him so [again, hopefully] he can tell the real narrative to the forum and we seal this ne for good.

I agree.

I am not asking for your permission, you've gave it 6 posts ago, in form of an agreement of your data being shared [thus, a permission].

I am asking for your agreement that if I can somehow convince FJ to share me the same evidence they shared to CG and what basically became their own findings and rulings, the same findings and rulings made by CG after they saw it, and if after seeing it and got a better insight of what actually transpired during that two KYC, whose face is what, whose head is in the screen, and whose room is who is in, or basically whatever that helps me understand the real narrative here, I came to the same conclusion as CG, you'll agree that this case is closed for good, FJ ruling is founded and fair, there is no further reason to accuse them or anyone of being crooked.

The case sealed there and then without any further meaningless or accusative comments.

We know this possibility is there, so let's address the elephant on the thread: if I ruled against you, I can guarantee that it is because that's the fact. I am not benefitted in any way from this case [it actually costed me and my private time] and I extremely rarely take this step. I am usually an overseer, not someone who pull an opinion, let alone the one that binds. But recently the cases on this board gets more and more creative and demanding that I have to take a step or two from my "comfort zone" just to get things cleared, and apparently, this one is.

I know I don't have much to vouch myself, only that I give you my word that I'll stand from neutral ground and I'll conclude purely from what I see... that if FJ agreed to share such sensitive and private data.

So, I will need your written agreement. If my findings is in not the same with CG, then it's probably good for you. But If it's on the same page as CG, that's it. No protest, no swearing, no mud throwing, no tantrum, nothing. I expext exactly that. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't need any further headache. If you can't accept this, simply don't agree with my proposal, and well... we'll leave it at wherever we were before this post made.

Agreed?

I give permission. To pass verification you need to pass a live check (turn your head, blink). Let them show you this video of another person passing a live check. They just showed random photos from a webcam. This is a violation. They did it without permission. I did not upload other people's photos, I did not try to pass a live check on another person (well, that's absolute stupidity). Let FJ show their evidence

I think the probability that they took random photos without the user's consent is very close to minimum, as that'll be a very serious breach of privacy, and if you'd like to insist on this point, perhaps it'll be better to start with proof that they indeed practice such gross misconduct.

And we are trying to figure it out. That's why we are here.

So, how about this as a proposal? I know you've give your consent, but I am somewhat sure FJ will refrain from sharing that KYC info with me, as casinos really protect their client's private information. But suppose, suppose, I can take a peek at it and get a clearer insight on what happened [I am somewhat sure with that image seen by my eyes, I will get an immersive understanding of the real narrative].

If what I see came to the same line as CG's findings, we close this case for good with no buts, warns, and other accusation?

I declare that I was the only one who passed the live check. They took random photos that had nothing to do with verification. Nobody wants to figure it out. I am closing this case. And I warn you all. They are scammers. They can steal your money at any time and you will not be able to prove anything.

Thank you for updating us.

I guess, with that, it kinda seal the case? The findings made by CG's arbitrator is in line with FJ's initial findings, that is contradictory with your narrative.

On the submitted KYC, according to FJ and CG, only one person appear on the, presumably, entire verification. It is not a case where the camera suddenly turned on and record everything and upload to FJ's server [without your consent] with you and your brother being in front of the camera during passport snapshot like what you're trying to explain to us.

Are you interested to explain the discrepancies in the narratives?

I apologize, it seems that my closing reply was not posted.

Thank you for providing me with the information FortuneJack Casino representative.

Dear kerosin48, from the evidence provided by the casino it is clear that your brother was the only one present during the first verification. It is an industry standard that one person can only open one account and this situation creates the issue of not being able to determine if your account was used by you or by your brother in your name. With that in mind, we believe the steps the casino has taken to be justified and we will subsequently reject your complaint. Thank you for your understanding, I am sorry we could not be of more help on this occasion. Please do not hesitate to contact us if you run into any issues with this or any other casino in the future.

Kind regards,

Peter

I agree to everything. I'm already tired. No one wants to figure it out.

Umm... that goes from zero to one hundred in Barry Allen's speed. If I may propose, since OP gave their consent for everything, wouldn't an easier method is to provide the collage of the KYC process that FJ shared to CG so we [through me] can finally understand the situation surrounding those process?

Granted, I've given a pointer or two and a crash course about how to identify betting abuse from several readings by a very close relative of mine that works on a casino [they have no reps on this forum, though] when I wanted to know how somethings work for a past case.

Also had one experience identifying multi-acc.

But given the damning evidence, as well as the focal point of the case itself is the KYC, I think providing those collage will be much shorter and productive. I've verified two or three cases KYC-related, so I think I know what and where to look.

BUT, or should I say BUT, the best method right now is still to wait for CG with their closing statement and official summary. I believe it wasn't there yet simply because they were swamped.

IIRC I read somewhere [either on OP's thread or on other case's thread] that they were currently being flooded by 700 cases. I can understand that it's a chronich headache by itself. So perhaps, best way before we jump into me verifying things and all, is to wait for them and see if they'll publish their findings as their closing statement and update their summary.

Not to mention that FJ might be quite reluctant to share their evidence to me, even with the player's consent.

They accused me of letting another person go through verification instead of me.
I give permission for everything

FJ accused you of  multi-accounting. Most of the time when people multi-account they bet the same sports for similar amounts. FJ should show that info to holydarkness with your approval.

when will you understand that no one except me tried to pass verification. And they just illegally took a photo of what was happening in my apartment

A very likely possible situation here, far more likely than not, is that the mediator already convinced that the KYC submitted by FJ [and through FC, OP] indeed has some questionable factors in it. Thus they marked it as rejected. I am hoping for further explanation about why and how they make that ruling, which hopefully would be given following OP's inquiry to them.

A second fleeting thought, though, there is a slim chance the case was wrongly marked, an oversight due to the hectic situation they're currently facing.

Whichever that is, hopefully can be cleared by CG's closing statement.

They are using the simple breaking the ToS as way to confiscate your winnings. As long as you can’t proved that your KYC procedure is just pure mistake then they just keep using as an excuse to accused for trying to bypass the KYC verification by using other person identity.

The only way you can fight this kind of issue is convincing the mediator who will view your KYC materials that you honestly made a mistake.

I found myself a bit confused. The case was indeed marked as rejected by the mediator. But I can't find his closing statement, nor the summary of the case [as it usually did] provide the conclusion that the mediator draw after reviewing the provided evidences by both parties.

ADante, FortuneJack or OP, can any of you perhaps ask CG to "complete" the thread with their closing statement or a summary update of the verdict made? It'll help us get a closure on our own list.

- I wrote a letter to casinoguru. I will wait for their answer.

ADante, please tell me. Was another person trying to pass the live check? Or is the winnings confiscated because you took some photos that included another person?

Thank you

1. It was good to see ADante explain the KYC procedure.
2. Winnings should almost never be confiscated.
3. Holydarkness is on the right path. We need more on the report of CG on why it was rejected. If CG sides with FJ, then it should be marked resolved even though I personally disagree with the OP getting stiffed.

I found myself a bit confused. The case was indeed marked as rejected by the mediator. But I can't find his closing statement, nor the summary of the case [as it usually did] provide the conclusion that the mediator draw after reviewing the provided evidences by both parties.

ADante, FortuneJack or OP, can any of you perhaps ask CG to "complete" the thread with their closing statement or a summary update of the verdict made? It'll help us get a closure on our own list.

Don't you think that it could be indeed a mistake from OP's side that his brother had completed the face verification during the first attempt? Was there anything wrong with his provided documents? Casino always shows extreme level of strictness to the users. Personally, I think OP's issue can be considered in a soft angle. OP had only messed up in the face verification. There wasn't any manipulation with the provided documents, isn't it?

Those are sensitive documents. Neither FortuneJack nor Casino Guru team will post those evidences publicly. FJ team has sent those evidences to CG team through email.

Where is the video of another person going through a live check?
Casinoguru didn't respond at all. They just closed the complaint.

@OP, it’s hard to accept loss but you have nothing to do here. I’m not sure what the heck you are trying to do by busting a simple KYC procedure multiple times through involving different person on your submitted picture.

KYC procedure is very easy to complete that’s why I’m doubting you already after the explanation of FJ and supporting of Casinoguru to FJ after submitting the evidence.

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This is the danger of playing in the casino that you shouldn’t allowed to play. Your supposed to be profit can be confiscated by just simply imposing ToS despite there’s no cheating involved on the game. If you lose casino will accept your money, if you win the6 will use ToS as trap card to confiscate your profit.

Moral of the story, Don’t bypass casino restrictions or don’t do anything shitty with your KYC procedure.

Hey folks

First of all, Merry Christmas!, wishing all of you Happy Holidays.

Today, the complaint on Casino Guru has been rejected and closed by their team.

The Complaint -> CG CASE

Since our last reply on here, there was still some confusion about certain aspects of the case, so I would like to clarify some points for our BitcoinTalk Community. Questions about why the OP was allowed a 2nd KYC attempt, how the KYC works etc etc.

When KYC isn't completed (not necessarily "failed", just not completed fully) it doesn't usually get manually reviewed by our team. Even when a KYC attempt isn't "successful", users still get the 30-day e-mail notice to complete verification. Successful KYC's always undergo a further manual review from our team. As for the "footage" itself, during the KYC the camera takes multiple pictures which then transform into a collage for us.

 On Nov 11th, the KYC attempt wasn't successful. We have 2 collages from this KYC attempt, in both of these (and all the pictures) the only person seen on camera is the alleged brother of the OP. The person in the camera didn't match the provided identification document, so the KYC attempt wasn't successful, and it wasn't further manually checked.

The 2nd KYC attempt was on Dec 2nd, and from the photos/collages we have from this, we see two different people. In one collage, it's the same person from the KYC attempt on Nov 11th (the Brother, as OP claims); in another collage, it's a different person. These two people are never seen together in any of our photos/collages.

In this 2nd collage, the person's (who OP suggests is them) face matched the provided identification document, and verification was successful because of this, but after manually reviewing the verification, our security team were able to see multiple people on camera in multiple collages.

As for the sportsbook restriction, the OP was handed several restrictions from our provider, with the latest restriction coming on Nov 12th, limiting the maximum amount OP could bet on the Sportsbook.

All of the abovementioned e-mails, pictures, collages, and sportsbook provider restriction evidence were sent to the Casino Guru team, and today we got their decision.

OP was not allowed to withdraw their winning amount, but the remaining deposited amount is still on their balance, which they can withdraw. 


Thank you,


- ADante,

It doesn't matter. You understand that it wasn't verification. For verification, you have to take a photo of your passport. Press the "upload" button. I uploaded my passport there. And at that time they (as it turned out) were taking photos of what was happening in my room. I was not alone in the room.

Actually, the part that I don't understand and not sure I grasp correctly is the part on the screenshot of your post that is marked in bold. In your previous statement you said that the webcam suddenly turned on and take a snap of you and your brother while he translates for you, [IIRC] during the process of uploading passport.

On that bolded statement though, you left the room, your brother walked in, and [inferred] the webcam took a snapshot of this and became the reason of your failed KYC.

So, were you with your brother, together, in front of a screen, you left the room and he walked in, or what?

Interesting! FortuneJack team said that there was a different person during the liveness check in the first verification attempt on 11th November. But you are saying that you hadn't proceed to the liveness check during then. FortuneJack team have already forwarded the evidences to Casino Guru team. Hopefully they will verify the evidences properly and make a fair judgement.

If I may satisfy my curiosity though... I thought you said your brother was sitting next to you when the webcam suddenly turned on and take a photo of both of you when you're in the process of uploading the first stage, picture of passport. Leaving for now the fact that [yet to reemphasize] what they collected is what you pressed to be submitted, not random images that they record, so you basically accepted that that image is the one be uploaded, the photo of you and your brother while you try to snap your passport... umm...?

-No, I didn't upload anything except my passport. They just took screenshots of what was happening in my apartment. I think it's illegal. I didn't give my consent to it. It wasn't verification. I repeat it for the hundredth time. To pass the live check, you need to scan the QR code and turn your head.
To pass the first stage, you need to upload your passport. So what did I violate then? Why am I being blamed for not being alone in the room?
They claim that I failed the live check. Then let them prove it. Let them upload a video of another person passing this verification. What's the problem?

I somewhat believe CasinoGuru will understand how verification works. They've handled and mediated KYC issues from a lot of casinos and I'd like to think it made them well versed in KYC verification across casino platforms. Besides, if I understand things correctly, what ADante send to CG is actually a collage of the first and second KYC, not just one picture of a screenshot of someone in the webcam. They sent the entire documents taken for KYC purposes both on the first and second KYC.

I believe CG can make the most of it and draw their conclusion based on the collection of images provided.

If I may satisfy my curiosity though... I thought you said your brother was sitting next to you when the webcam suddenly turned on and take a photo of both of you when you're in the process of uploading the first stage, picture of passport. Leaving for now the fact that [yet to reemphasize] what they collected is what you pressed to be submitted, not random images that they record, so you basically accepted that that image is the one be uploaded, the photo of you and your brother while you try to snap your passport... umm...?

You see, casinoguru doesn't understand how their verification works. FJ will just send a screenshot where another person is on the webcam. Casinoguru won't figure out that to pass the live check you need to scan the QR code, turn your head, blink. They will just see the fact of another person's presence.
That's why I asked Fortunejack to send a video of the verification. But this video doesn't exist, because only I passed the live check. The situation is so stupid. It's so mean. Well, it's obvious that I passed the verification, That I am the owner of the account. But they just don't care about it.

I don't think they won't pay you because you don't live alone, that doesn't make any sense.
As of now I still think this is just a big misunderstanding but I might also be wrong of course. Yet, if you have your documents  and everything, it wouldn't make any sense to ask somebody else to sit in front of the camera and try to pass the check.
Nobody would make thins intentionally and I really think you didn't as well.
I mean, the problem is FJ should also come to this understanding, seeing it for what it is. For me it's kinda obvious but what I think doesn't matter unfortunately.

First of all, I am glad that FJ made their reply to CG and put things in motion.

Their explanation on CG is actually longer and more detailed than what's snipped above, and I'll invite the overseer to read the CG thread themselves.

For OP, I think I'll need to assure you that all we can and need to do is wait. ADante provided the mediator with relevant evidences from their side, the KYC on both occasions and the situation surroundings the photo being gathered. I am more than sure the mediator is fair and can pull their own conclusion on what happened.

If the situation is like what you describe, where you're innocent and the root of the problem was just your brother being in the same room as you, then they'll point it out as an invalid evidence. Otherwise, they'll inform us with their findings and conclusion regarding the submitted evidence once they've finished investigating it.

FJ:
The Original Poster’s (OP’s) KYC attempt wasn’t successful because different people tried to do the KYC during different attempts.

The first KYC attempt was on Nov 11th, and it wasn’t successful. The reason for this is that the only person seen on the camera did not match the provided identification document. The photo on the document and the person on the camera weren’t the same, so the attempt wasn’t successful. In general, during the KYC, the camera takes multiple pictures, which then transforms into a collage for us, and on Nov 11th, there was only 1 person seen on the camera, and it did not match the person on the document. Since the attempt wasn’t successful, it wasn’t further manually checked.
https://casinoguru-en.com/fortunejack-casino-player-s-kyc-verification-has-failed

- They won't give me my winnings because they took pictures of what was happening in my apartment. They don't care that I did a live check, that I scanned the QR code, that I turned my head around. They just saw on the camera that I don't live alone. And that's enough to not give me my winnings.
It's just incredible

It will be provided on CG. As referenced above, ADante agreed to cooperate on CG and will get your case resolved there. Any evidence that led them to this conclusion, be it a liveliness check, selfie check, or whatever shown on the camera during KYC, I believe they will share it with the mediator, who will verify the claim.

I suggest you to be patient as FJ still have several days left to answer to the mediator's inquiries.

I want proof. I want to see a video of another person passing a live check. Not a screenshot, but a video of him spinning his head in a circle. If they post this video, I will close my complaint. And I will be disgraced in front of the entire forum. I give permission for any of my personal information to be published. But they won't be able to post it, because no one passed a live check. FJ I'm waiting for proof!!

As you raised your case to CG [or other ADR bodies], casino representatives will usually cease to made reply on this forum and focus themselves to address the matter on that ADR platform. One, because on that platform they can share private evidences [as it'll set as private by the mediator]. Two, to not exhaust any man-power and their time by having to answer to multiple channels.

This is why the usual recommendation is to try to raise things here, see if we can get to the bottom of it and/or get things deescalated. And if it can't, we'll suggest to move to an ADR as per both parties agreement, and if ADR can't get it resolved either, then it will be advised to raise it to an higher authority like their licensor.

FJ's stance on this case is clear; they'll respond to your complaint on CG and we'll take our spectator seats.

FortuneJack, will you answer my questions?

I guess my initial post wasn't clear enough, so I'd like to clarify. There weren't 3 different people involved in the KYC process, it was two. During the first KYC on Nov 11th, it was one person (Who OP claims is their brother), and the identification document provided at that moment did not match THAT person, the picture on the document and the person on camera during the KYC were not the same person, so the KYC was unsuccessful.

- You are lying. On November 11, I tried to upload my passport. I didn't even start the live check.
You can't start the livecheck if the document hasn't been verified.

Why did I have to upload my passport on December 2 if you say the document was already accepted on November 11?

They are just lying. I ask to see a video of someone else doing the livecheck instead of me. Show me the video of him spinning his head around, blinks and does what is written on the screen.

I am not an idiot to upload my passport and then give my phone to my brother to do the livecheck.

Give me back my winnings. Don't ruin your reputation.

KYC verification system isn't automated on any casino. You have to follow the instructions to complete the KYC verification on every platform. It works in the way like you have described here.

I had completed the KYC verification at FortuneJack a few years ago. I can't recall how the process was actually. If I remember it correctly, I had to blink my eyes and move my head. So, I think that the problem hasn't happened for being two people in the same frame.

FortuneJack sportsbook odds provider is Betby. We have previously seen a lot of complaints here in the forum where the account of the users were blocked by Betby odds provider in different sportsbook. Usually, they make the decision by following the betting pattern. I don't think the decision was taken by the odds provider by following the KYC documents.

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Anyway, we have already said enough here and heard enough from OP. Let's wait for FortuneJack team to come with further explanation and shareable evidences (either here or in the Casino Guru).

The question why the provider restricted the OP should be answered as this could shed some light on this.

to make things abundantly clear, according to you, the photo that invalidate your first KYC process were actually a photo of your passport, where there were the two of you being visible on the camera, not one person like ADante explained?
- I tried to take a photo of my passport using a webcam. They couldn't recognize the document. When I tried to take a photo of my passport, the webcam was on. And they were recording what was happening in the room. I didn't even know about it. And apparently they saw that I wasn't alone in the room. I didn't take a photo of my brother, I didn't upload his document and selfie.
If I had uploaded my passport. And my brother would have passed the live check, then why did they give me a second chance to pass verification? For what?

I applaud your eagerness to learn English, though, given with all of those difficulties, you still set your device default language as English.
-I wrote a message on this forum. My keyboard was switched to English. This is a strange claim

Imagine the situation. You need to pass verification. You click the button to upload a document. It says you need to upload your passport. You go to another room to get your passport, and at that moment your girlfriend/mom/dad comes into the room. Would this be the reason for the verification failure and confiscation of the winnings?

to make things abundantly clear, according to you, the photo that invalidate your first KYC process were actually a photo of your passport, where there were the two of you being visible on the camera, not one person like ADante explained?

And your brother was there to help explains English to you because your English is [if I may speak bluntly, with no offense intended] so bad that you can't understand the simple English written in the instructions? The same reason you needed translator to write fluent English in all of these posts?

I applaud your eagerness to learn English, though, given with all of those difficulties, you still set your device default language as English.

Nor that you checked your KYC process all that time? If I am not mistaken, you initially got into this case when you requested for withdrawal, and they locked it, asking you to do KYC. You submitted it, you leave it for almost one month, and you didn't check nor realized that it got rejected. You also did not re-try to do withdrawal in the meantime? All that long?

On November 11, I tried to take a photo of my passport using a webcam. It was not accepted. I did not start the live check. You can't do it until they accept the passport.
Now Fj say that I failed this verification. But I didn't even realize that I failed it. They didn't send any letter that the verification was failed. They just didn't accept my passport. I thought I'd upload my passport next time. But next day I couldn't log in. I wrote them an email about it https://talkimg.com/images/2024/12/07/pjMs8.jpeg
They didn't say my verification failed. They opened the account for 24 hours. But I was at work at that time. I wrote to them about this https://talkimg.com/images/2024/12/07/pjPXw.jpeg They closed my account again. And said I have a month to verify.

On December 2, I wrote to them that I was ready to go through verification. They opened me account. I uploaded my passport. It was accepted. I scanned the QR code with my phone and turned my face. The account was verified https://talkimg.com/images/2024/12/07/pjTcN.jpeg
The withdrawal was closed. I wrote in the chat. They said wait. After 10 hours I received a letter that verification failed


Though they actually said there was only one person in that first KYC [your narrative would imply you and your brother got in frame] that is your brother and which prompt them to reject the KYC as the person didn't match the ID... if you can help me understand, why do you submit the photo with your brother in it instead of retaking one that is "clean"?
I am sure they gave you option to review photo, retake and reupload them prior to submitting the entire KYC process?

I didn't upload his photo. I'm not an idiot to upload my passport. And then give the phone to my brother so that he turns his head

You all misunderstood what happened. You think that I sent my passport, and my brother did the live check. This is not true. I will try to explain again.

I was sitting at the computer. And I wanted to go through verification. I clicked the "upload document" button and the webcam turned on.
I had to take a photo of the passport with my webcam. This is what it looked like: https://talkimg.com/images/2024/12/07/pjnyD.jpeg
And at that time my brother was in the room. He was sitting next to me. It was not a life check verification. It was the first stage, when you had to take a photo of the passport. Apparently they were recording what was happening in the room when I took a photo of my passport. I did not upload his photo. They did not accept my passport the first time and therefore I could not pass verification. I did not even try to pass the live check.

In order to pass the live check, you have to scan the QR code on your phone and turn your head in a circle. My brother did not do this. I did it on December 2. And my account was verified.

My brother didn't upload his documents, my brother didn't pass live check. He just sat next to me when I tried to take a photo of my passport with my webcam.

Sorry, it's very hard for me to explain this in English. I used a translator.

this entire KYC process is confusing. i mean, does FortuneJack keep the laptop camera on the entire time during KYC? and if other people are present, that cause the KYC to fail?
as far as i know, most automated KYC processes that require a face check are prompted to be done on mobile.

if FortuneJack could explain how the KYC process is done exactly, it would help clear things up.


i assume you did the above during the second KYC attempt, and the KYC was successful based on FortuneJack words, only to be revoked later because the face didn't match the one from the first failed attempt?
if that's the case, and since they approved the KYC without any issues on the second attempt, they should pay OP in full, imo.

but things are still not clear and OP story has some holes in it that don't quite make sense.


you say your brother was in the room with you, was he next to you? in the background? where exactly was he in the room during the live check?


you did the live check on your phone, right? (assuming that's what the QR code is for)
so if the live check is done on the phone, why would they turn on the webcam on the computer during the first KYC attempt?

Thanks holy for explaining the first part with the video call which I thought it was.

One more thing I wonder.  This KYC process, was this just a picture that's taken (when the camera turned on)? Or is there even a video? Since it's a liveliness check there should be some sort of recording maybe?
If there was a video then FJ should be in possession of this video, right? I mean if there was one, it would be easy to tell from the reaction of the 2 people in the video what's going on.
If it's just a picture, then like holydarkness stated, there should have been an option to retake the picture. Every automated KYC process I ever went through had the option to retake the picture before accepting it, to avoid sending an unclear picture or whatever.

The whole situation is so confusing.

Nor that you checked your KYC process all that time? If I am not mistaken, you initially got into this case when you requested for withdrawal, and they locked it, asking you to do KYC. You submitted it, you leave it for almost one month, and you didn't check nor realized that it got rejected. You also did not re-try to do withdrawal in the meantime? All that long?


Though they actually said there was only one person in that first KYC [your narrative would imply you and your brother got in frame] that is your brother and which prompt them to reject the KYC as the person didn't match the ID... if you can help me understand, why do you submit the photo with your brother in it instead of retaking one that is "clean"?

I am sure they gave you option to review photo, retake and reupload them prior to submitting the entire KYC process?

how many times do you inqure for re-KYC after they told you that you failed the first one?

0. I didn't even know that verification failed. No one told me about it in letters or in the chat. https://imgur.com/a/uqHNIP3

I'll try to explain. I hope you understand me.
To pass verification, you need to do 2 things:
1) send a passport
2) turn your head at the camera in a circle.
No one except me did these things.

When I tried to pass verification for the first time. I clicked the "upload document" button. And the webcam on my computer automatically turned on. I tried to take a photo of my passport, but the System did not recognize the document. At that time, my brother was in the room with me. And only because of this, they refuse to pay my winnings. Apparently, they record everything that happens in the apartment.

To pass the live check, you must scan the QR code. And turn your head in a circle. My brother did not do this. Only I passed the verification.
I am accused of the fact that when I uploaded the passport, the webcam on the computer turned on and my brother got into the frame

My question is, unfortunately, still left unanswered. To avoid language barrier, I'll make my question rather obvious for you to find: how many times do you inqure for re-KYC after they told you that you failed the first one?

---

I think they refer to the liveliness check or a selfie [though selfie will be a tad bit more severe case, read below on my reply to mahdirakib], not an advanced-KYC video call verification. That's why they keep saying "camera" and not "video", which make their next explanation also more understandable. They can't accept the first KYC because after the data being submitted, the lively check [of which according to OP's side, should be his brother's face] being submitted to the system shows a different face than what the ID [OP's own] had.

If I may guess, they asked for second KYC because it was the automated system that detect differences. Or rather, it was unable to verify matches, thus it asked for another attempt, perhaps it's programmed to ask for another check suppose it can't verify the similarity between liveliness check and the image on the govt ID. Thus, "they" asked for a resubmission, with "they" refer to the automated system.

OP submitted the second one and it got accepted as OP gave his face this time. However, upon being manually checked by human operator, they found out that the KYC should be deemed failed from the first time as it was not a case of an unverifiably-match face, it's a completely different individual.

FortuneJack, you're free to correct me if I am wrong.

---

I'll start by saying that I think I might understand the point of your post wrongly. But suppose I am right and you're trying to say that "bought account" is a term where the player try to falsify KYC through submitting someone else's ID is a less-likely case here as there were no fund being unverified, small chances of of bonus and VIP level benefit abuse, and the winning being normal, thus the effort to falsify KYC outweight the amount disputed... sadly, from what I witnessed throughout my stay and being active in this board, the reason that someone bought an account is broader than that.

Sorry, I mean "bought an account", as in the account owner and the ID is actually real.

The username and the ID was indeed owned by that very human. The username HolyDickness is owned by a human being born under name Holy Dicky. And he played there quite often, or perhaps just created and never played. Point is, he owned that account until one point in Mr. Dicky's life where someone approached him. The account then, moved hand.

One Ms. Halley Darkness bought the account, operated it ever since, and at one point, when the casino asked for KYC, as agreed by them when the account exchanged into fund, Mr. Dicky will re-access the site to perform KYC when requested.

---

If my guess was right that ADante was referring to liveliness check or a selfie, it made quite more sense than a simple innocent of having two people messed up face verification. I mean, if it's a video verification and they messed it up by having his brother translating the step to him when the camera suddenly turned on and recording them, then automatically uploaded the result to their system without OP hitting the "submit button" [because otherwise, he can just retake before submitting it] then yes, it's a hilarious mistake. But, what are the chance that FJ's KYC system automatically submit data without the player hitting the button?

So, probably it's a liveliness check, where a person needed to move their head up and down, right and left, smile and frown and open their mouth and sing their national anthem... I think a story where the brother accidentally performed the check for OP because he's translating to OP became quite questionable [and unacceptable] while FJ's reason to ban the account after manual check despite OP passed the second verification became quite understandable [and acceptable].

I mean, suppose we reverse the role and we asked our Russian-speaking brother to translate a KYC process of a site that's written in Russian, and we get into the part where the site asked for liveliness check, and our brother did that for us... because he happened to be in front of a camera... I'll personally roundhouse-kicked my brother out of frame and perform the rest of the liveliness check myself.

If OP claimed that he and his brother accidentally being in the same frame, though... that frame is very small. They're usually human-head shaped and require us to position our camera to a distance and angle that our face fill the entire space of the frame. How possible is it for the brother to accidentally be in that designated frame while the one that supposed to be in frame was not?

Now, if we talk about selfie check instead of liveliness check... it brought the case to a whole new level, because it uses and captured a significantly wider frame instead of the dedicated space like liveliness check. Both OP and his brother could fit on that screen. But... based on ADante's latest explanation, there was only one person in frame during first KYC,


So where was OP and why did his brother submitted the document [again, it's very doubtful that FJ's system will just snap and automatically submit things out of the player's control to submit or to retake] that will clearly got rejected?

Moving below to why and how I build this assumption,


A bought account.

What brought me to mull over this possible scenario in my head, the provider marked the user from different casino's KYC and relayed the info to FJ, maybe the other casino asked him just a couple of days before JF can, or at the same day, and maybe they flagged the oddity in OP's KYC documents right away instead of having the same scenario as FJ where they automated KYC asked for resubmission that let him pass.

This is what prompt FJ to hand-check the KYC [well, to be precise, I think the more correct sentence will be "the 3rd party verifier that's assigned to verify KYC for FJ," but at this point, it's a kartoffeln pohtahtoh] and found that their automatic system made a wrong call.

Too many maybe and perhaps even a far-fetched assumption, but my gut-feeling trigger me to build this assumption from the length OP needed to retake the KYC. It's more like a time needed for the account buyer to reach the previous owner to perform the KYC. Because, like I previously said to OP, even for a procrastinator extraordinaire, they'll stretch it to a weekend [or when OP has an off-day, given the added info that he works on train, that have their own schedule and the business runs 7 days a week].

So, OP, allow me to re-ask, how many times do you ask for re-KYC after they told you that you failed the first one?

So, the decision has been made based on the mistake of the video verification (face verification) process during the first attempt! Maybe it was indeed a mistake from OP's side in the first attempt (he and his brother messed up in face verification). In my opinion, OP should receive his whole balance if the documents are valid and OP have completed the verification successfully in the second attempt. Anyway, what about this?


Why such decision came from the odds provider? Was there any sportsbook abuse by OP?

@ADante, OP has said that he works on train, and couldn't manage any time to complete the verification in the November month after the first attempt. Has your team verified his occupation (source of funds)? Is the claim of OP true about the KYC verification procedure?

I totally understand the ToS of casino that’s why I think it’s unfair for a simple mistake. I’m not sure a bought account will rule out here since the fund in question is unverified and the profit mostly comes from normal winning not a bonus abuse or VIP level benefit.

Although I have some doubts here on why OP do a simple mistake on KYC which can completed easily..

Anyway let’s see how this case unfolds since OP is willing to reveal the KYC he is provide to check whether he really submits KYC from different person or just some honest mistake .

What I wonder is, why was there even a KYC video call?? Is this standard at this site. I have been with countless sites in my life and never ever was I asked to do a verification call, not even when I was accused on something like multi accounting (which I proved to be a false accusation).
All I ever did was sending documents or providing screenshots of whatever, but a call, absolutely never.

Another things I wonder about, why was OP even allowed to do a 2nd KYC call attempt if the first one already failed due to the above mentioned problem? Doesn't make any sense to be honest. All sounds very fishy if you ask me. Sure OP also messed up with the first KYC call but he obviously passed the 2nd one so there is no reason to still suspend the account and keep is winnings (basically freerolling him). If you give him the possibility to do a 2nd call then you should also clear him if he passes it. Why else do it again anyway??

You constantly get your words mixed up. And you mislead people.
I sent you my document for the first time and didn't understand what to do next. I called my brother to help me with the translation. He just came and sat next to me. He didn't go through verification. You're lying. He didn't send his documents, he didn't send a selfie. He was just nearby. He didn't participate in verification. I didn't even know you were recording all of this. What's the violation?
You can send all the evidence. I agree

Hi again.

I guess my initial post wasn't clear enough, so I'd like to clarify. There weren't 3 different people involved in the KYC process, it was two. During the first KYC on Nov 11th, it was one person (Who OP claims is their brother), and the identification document provided at that moment did not match THAT person, the picture on the document and the person on camera during the KYC were not the same person, so the KYC was unsuccessful.
 
During the 2nd KYC attempt, on Dec 2nd,  the documentation provided was the same as the one during the first attempt. This time the document matched the person doing the KYC, which was the OP (Based on the claims of OP that the first person was their brother, and the 2nd time it was them). Because the document and the person doing the KYC matched, it was a successful attempt and the system automatically verified the user, but some time later our security team hand-checked the KYC and quickly realized that it was different people on the 1st and 2nd KYC attempt.

I'd like to reiterate OP can withdraw their entire deposit amount, with $3,289.75 already withdrawn and $846.83 on their balance

I obviously cannot share screenshots of documentation provided by OP or the KYC footage here. The CG case is open, and I recommend you all follow how it goes on.


Thank you


ADante - FortuneJack Community team

What's funny? I don't understand English very well. I tried to upload my passport. It's in Russian. Their system translated my data into English. Everything was translated badly. https://talkimg.com/images/2024/12/05/ps5XG.png I didn't succeed. Is this a failed verification?
I asked my brother to help me with the translation. So that he could explain what exactly they wanted from me. They accepted my passport and selfie. But in the morning I received a letter that verification failed.
I did not try to deceive the casino in any way.
I am waiting for proof that other people sent you their documents.

On the train that... is without shift and for entire days of the week? So you're pretty much occupied 24 hours daily 7 days weekly? Oh my.

Uh, anyway, can't help but being curious, since I am sure what above is not the case [24/7] and you do work in shifts and have several hours off every now and then [perhaps days off too], how many times do you inqure for re-KYC after they told you that you failed the first one?

First of all, there were no failed verifications. I sent them my passport on December 2.
Why did it take so long? Because they have a very strange casino. To pass verification, you need to write to them by email, wait for their response, and only then they will open an account for 24 hours. If you don't have time, they close the account again. I work on the train. I can't be online all the time.

Not sure if this is the exact same thing that happened here as what I had in mind from my experience overseeing other casino's situation, since that case was about questionable KYC selfie, which roughly the same as what's being counter-accused to OP here.

But, and first thing first, the winning was being hold as the KYC verification process suggested that the account holder and controller are not the same as the one performing KYC. This lead to a strong possibility of a bought account. Though not explicitly mentioning a case of bought account, they actually covered this in there ToS,



By the terms agreed between OP and the casino, they actually have the rights to confiscate everything, even the amount deposited.

That said, second thing I'd like to address is what mahdirakib also brushed upon. OP, is there any reason why you need a very long time to do the second verification?

Normally, at least if I was in your shoes, upon being notified that my KYC failed to be verified and I was asked to re-perform it, even with my procrastination tendency, I'll do that by the weekend after I got notified, at the latest. So why wait that long?

To get verified on their website, I clicked the upload document button, and the webcam on my computer turned on. I wasn't alone in the room. My brother was with me. I uploaded my passport. Then a selfie. I didn't even know that a video was being recorded. No one else tried to get verified. I didn't send anyone else's documents. My money was stolen just because my brother was in the room. This is absurd. If there is evidence that I sent anyone else's documents, then send them.

I didn't use other people's documents.
Fortunjack, show me proof that other people passed verification.
I'm not an idiot. They just deceived me.
I didn't send any documents except my passport. Why are they lying?

As the way you have created this thread and followed the scam accusation format of Bitcointalk forum, it doesn't look like your English is weak. Your winnings have been confiscated as you tried to complete the KYC verification with different people and documents. Let's have a look into the explanation of FortuneJack representative


Seems like there were 3 different people involvement to complete the KYC verification of your account. Was it you and your so called brother on the 11th November, then a different person on the 2nd December? It is strange that there was 21 days gap between those attempts. Any betting site will confiscate the winnings and block the account in this type of suspicious KYC verification attempt.

This is simply unbelievable. Fortunjack, don't disgrace yourself. Return the winnings to the client.

It's hard for me to express my thoughts in English. But I'll try.
When I was going through verification, the webcam immediately turned on. And I had to take a photo of my passport. I took a photo and sent it. Then I took a selfie. My brother was next to me. He helped me with the translation. Do I understand correctly that all my money was stolen because my brother was next to me?

My English is weak. And I asked my brother to help me with the translation. I didn't know how to pass the verification correctly. He helped me with the translation and told me where to upload the document. I sent you my documents. Because of this, you stole all my winnings? This is unfair. They stole the money because my brother was in the room. It's just unbelievable.

^sounds a bit unfair for me with this decision to hold the winnings if the problem is just the failed KYC and there’s no other violation related to game cheating or sort.

What I’m assuming is OP try to use different identity probably family member/close friend since the first KYC was failed while the account itself still no registered name under it. Maybe if your support try to help him by clarifying why his first KYC failed then he can just repeat the process.

Hello, BitcoinTalk community.

After examining the case, I’d like to share our findings with you. Like Holydarkness mentioned, OP has also opened a case on CasinoGuru, and it’s currently open and you can follow how that goes as well.

The OP failed KYC because different people were undertaking the verification process during different attempts. Two different people were on camera during different KYC attempts.

The first attempt was on Nov 11th, and it automatically failed because the person on the camera and the person on the identification document provided by OP weren’t the same, after which our team notified OP that they had 30 days left to complete the KYC.  The second one was on Dec 2nd, and it was a different person trying to do the KYC this time. This is obviously against our Terms and Conditions.

OP also mentioned that the actual difference between their Deposits and Withdrawn amount is  4136-3289=$847
They're right. I can confirm that this amount is on OP’s balance currently, and they can withdraw it, meaning they will be able to withdraw their entire deposit amount.

OP was also restricted by our Sportsbook provider on Nov 12th

Since the KYC wasn’t completed successfully because of multiple people trying to do it, OP will not be able to withdraw their winning amount, but despite this violation, they can withdraw their full deposited amount.
I will now attach relevant sections of our Terms and Conditions.


ADante - FortuneJack community team.

They've replied to me and assured us that they'll give a visit to this thread and explain what happened.

Might worth to mention that [as the rep also made me aware] OP also raised a dispute resolution attempt on CG: FortuneJack Casino - Player’s KYC verification has failed., so a more active discussion will probably happen there.

Their support team response is strange. They aren't providing further information to you. However, as 'holydarkness' has expressed above, you might get a proper explanation from FortuneJack representative here. Your KYC verification has been marked as failed by FortuneJack team. This is what they have stated about failed KYC verification in their terms:

FortuneJack --as many other reputable casinos mostly do-- usually gave their explanation regarding the point in their ToS that someone breached that warrant them to take action against the account.

Let me try to page their rep. At least we'll get a better and more complete picture, and we'll see how should we proceed from that point.

All good man, was just asking.

As I said, this feels wrong - But absent of any reply from them is not a good sign either way, as to the "WHY" here.

Just don't overdo it on the messages, keep your anger level low - I understand you are pissed, but as former customer rep, nobody likes to be yelled at, even in emails.

Keep it cordial, be persistent. Just saying, being nice usually wins.

I didn't do anything wrong. I was betting on sports.
I have already sent many messages. The answer is always the same.
I am from Russia. Forunejack accepts players from Russia

This does seem very weird, but did you break any of their terms and conditions?

https://fortunejack.com/faq/terms_and_conditions

Just reply again and politely ask what TOS rule did I break etc?

Also, what were you doing exactly there? Are you in a legal country? You can answer that yourself I guess too, just by fully reading the above link.

Maybe they'll reply, who knows.

@FortuneJack

Is this really the best casino?
https://talkimg.com/images/2024/12/03/pPeaW.png

Why does a casino with such a rating steal money? And does not explain anything. How can I fail verification? I just sent them my passport.
How is this possible?

They wrote to me:
Balance update
Your balance has been updated
https://talkimg.com/images/2024/12/03/pPqtJ.png
This is just ridiculous. Yesterday it was 2200 USDT. Today it is 350 USDT.

What happened: I registered at this casino in September. I deposited and withdrew funds. One day I requested for withdrawal but it asked me for KYC verification, I have given my national passport and live check, it was written that verification was passed. but after 10 hours later I got a email that "your verification is failed". https://talkimg.com/images/2024/12/03/pP3I5.png  I asked them tell me what's wrong but they don't answer why they stole my money. This bookmaker has a very good reputation. I don't understand what's going on and how is this possible? I am ready to provide any documents, any checks.

Scammerss Profile link : https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/fortunejack-303298

Amount Scammed: 1800 USDT
Payment method: USDT (TRC20)
 
Correspondence with fortunejack:

- Hi Sovok414,
Please,  be  informed  that  due  to  failed   KYC  you  can  withdraw only   deposit  amount  335 USDT.
Total  deposit  amount  is   4,136.23USD, already  withdrawn  amount  is  3,289.75USD
​After  withdrawal  account  will  be  blocked 

- What is going on ? I sent you my National Passport
Why did my verification fail?
This is unfair
I am ready to provide any documents, any checks.
I hope this is a mistake. Waiting for an answer

- Hi Sovok414,
This was casino's decision, you can only withdraw 335 USDT.
Total  deposit  amount  is   4,136.23USD, already  withdrawn  amount  is  3,289.75USD
After  withdrawal  account  will  be  blocked .
Best Regards,
FortuneJack Team

-Explain to me what I did wrong? Why did you steal my money? It's not fair.

-Hi Sovok414,
It was casino's final decision and we're letting you withdraw what's left from your deposited amount that you haven't withdrawn yet >>> 335 USDT.
Best Regards,
FortuneJack Team

-firstly my deposits were 4,136.23USD already withdrawn amount is 3,289.75USD
4136-3289=847
secondly why can't i withdraw my winnings? may i know the reason why you stole my winnings?