Topic: FortuneJack has a problem in Dice game (Read 980 times)

As posted by you earlier your total dice wagered was 500 btc
With the formula posted by FJ, your airdrop would be 0.0495 btc

you can tip the rest to my btc address 

I also confirm that I have received around 0.004 BTC in dice airdrop and some eths yesterday. I am also unable to find out my actual wagered amount in dice but I am quite sure it was around 5-6+ BTC maybe even more. (can't recall correctly)


They only have Bet amount and win amount of players made after November 2014 till now and are crediting back users according to that. I think affected players should also receive a message displaying the calculation and actual figures.

@jpcfan nice stats! But it seems that you actually claimed all those leaderboard and weekly bonus winnings, rather than actual dice winnings themselves? Or do I not understand.

This is an excellent example of how to use bonuses, rewards and loyalties to defeat house edge and maintain a positive expected results. Well done.

And well done also to FJ for keeping the house reputation in this industry!

I can confirm that I received some satoshi from this dice airdrop, around 25k satoshi to be exact and some other small amount in other currencies. I'm not quite sure how much I have wagered on the dice game because there was a reset on the total wager when there was a big update/upgrade on the site 3 years ago IIRC. My question to Fortunejack is that, do you count all the wagered amount (including the amount before the reset) or this airdrop is counted based on the amount wagered after the reset only?

I am glad that you reconsidered and decided to explore this issue. While I'm not sure if I agree with the accuracy of these payouts given the methodology used, I still have to commend this action versus sweeping it under the rug.

Hi Bitcointalk Community,

I am writing to inform you that Dice Airdrop has just been launched on our website. The amount you have been entitled to will be calculated by formula posted by us above, in this thread.  The Airdrop will be active until the last day of October.

Wish you all the best of the luck,
David.

yeah, i'm a simple guy.

I'll settle for 0.02btc

then we can let bygone be bygones


FJ username: cryptobet



just for the record. i was first person to settle.

Pretty solid response imo. Spent quite some time on FJ dice, curious how much will be airdropped to my account.

Firstly, we again want to thank the player that helped us to find the bug, which might have affected some dice games played on our website. However, the case described in the initial bounty inquiry was extreme and relevant only with the option of playing over 99.90. The effect of the bug will drastically decrease while lowering the payout: if on 990x payout the bug had mistaken house edge and drew it for 10.89%, the aftermath from system miscalculation will be reduced, as the payout will vary (see the chart).



The case we had to deal with is no ordinary, and the company felt obliged to find a fair and relevant solution, so this took a couple of days. It has been years since we are in business, and the only way we kept our presence steady in this turbulent market, is FortuneJack's dedication to acting as fair as possible towards players and every each of them.

Following the logic initially set from a player in this bitcointalk thread and data that have been available for us to do calculations, we conclude the following:

Data Available as we clearly cannot tell when the bug started to affect our dice game, we decided not to start guessing and credit players from the moment we have the oldest record - November 2014, almost the date of establishment of the FortuneJack Casino.

What we have is Bet Amount and Win Amount recorded on our players. Most of the data is not kept forever, so it made calculation quite hard, and we had to rely upon more general and big data.

We have constructed the model of possible harm the bug might have had on players' bets, combining general assumptions and general knowledge to finally achieve average formula of payout for every player, who might have been affected.

We consider that most default style of play, practiced by the vast majority of players in to play on the edge of 50.00 and even the default game on FortuneJack Dice is Roll Under 49.50 (The bet that cannot be affected by bug), we decide not to calculate definite chance of default in our calculations and divide bets on rough two Over and Under 50. All the are Over 50 might have been affected and non who are under 50 could have been.

We have also calculated that, on average, playing case of being in the range of 50.00, the effect of the bug would have been 0.0198% following the model initially voiced in the bug bounty approach and written in the first post of this thread.

Following the data and module, we decided to econ average out of the players bet amount from November 2014 until today using the formula:

(Bet Amount * 50% ) X 0.0198% - Where every possible bet that might have been done over 50 on FortuneJack Dice by every player is multiplied on the possible average effect of the bug on the house edge.

Following this calculation, we have decided that starting next week, until the end of October, we will be airdropping this amount on each of the player's accounts that have the history of playing dice on FortuneJack.

To claim the coins back, a person will only need to log in to FortuneJack Dice, and everyone who might have been affected will get the difference that on average bug might have had back on their accounts.

We think our approach is fair and will make up for everyone. We believe finding the average effect was crucial in dealing with this case, and the final decision is equally reasonable to every dice player on FortuneJack.

We want to sincerely apologize for allowing the bug to affect the game and would like to thank players, the most respectful competitors, and the insightful Bitcointalk community for participating in the discussion.

We will post updates over airdrop in this thread shortly next week.
FortuneJack.

It is absolutely astounding that for FJ, this issue is resolved by them 'fixing' the bug. What about the lost btc of all us players over the years? I personally have over 200btc wagered on FJ dice, so I am quite possibly affected. Do they care?

I've left Fortunejack negative trust in hopes that they will care to explore this issue further.

Yes, this is the simple/correct thing to do, definitely worth the backwards computation to do this in my opinion.

I am glad that FJ doesn't misrepresent it's non-provably fair games as provably fair games, generally speaking, as I've seen some other casinos do. So that's at least a point in their favor. But I wouldn't personally consider the thread closed until players are made whole. Technically speaking they received an interest free loan for years so they still come out on top by the end of this but it's an acceptable enough compromise.

to be fair , this is not a proof that their provably fair system is not working properly
at least whatever you tried to show on your screen is irrelevant to PF
as for the losing streaks that happen when you bet high /low etc. its a common gambler's fallacy
if the system is provably fair , all of the rolls can be verified and cannot be manipulated
FJ dice can be anything but they are provably fair allright

Fortunejack dice game is a scam! proof


The provably fair system is not working properly.

https://i.redd.it/fmyh6k17v3f21.png

You can see that the losing streak always happen when I keep doubling the bet amount, but never on low bets.

The provably fair system can't explain this. So the fairness of FJ dice game is doubtful.

I realize numerous individuals will say that FJ has been running for a long time, the notoriety, and all that, yet that doesn't mean all is well. I don't question the provably reasonable calculation itself, yet I question the utilization of the calculation in shakers game. In light of thousands of wagers, I would state the shakers game is provably uncalled for!

They have not dealt with the issue. Let's apply this situation to any other market. Let's say I was trading with my brokerage and they advertise a flat 1% commission and then years later I find out that they had been charging me up to 10% on some trades. Is fixing the issue making it so all future trades are a flat 1% or is it refunding the amount I was overcharged for if not more.

Intentional or unintentional, Fortunejack would have made 100s of bitcoins more than they should have by ripping off players. I find it shocking that they have not even expressed interest in exploring this situation further.

what more evidence do you need? i havn't played at FJ in 2 years


. as you know when FJ upgraded their site few years back all wagering stats are gone. thats a old pic  as you can see i wagered  500btc.  my bonus awards alone is 10btc.





thats only other pic. as you can see won 1.1btc in weekly wagering. thats means i wager alot. people who know me know i dont lie about my gambling wagering n profits


plus i should mention not all 500 btc was on dice . back then i played every game

Pretty hard core gambler hmmm.

If FortuneJack tries to giveback the other 9.89% house edge, You would get back a ton of unknown fees that you are dealing with over these years.

I'm sure there are many gamblers who gamble like this, Fortunejack would take a long time compensating the players.

it was 10% ish HE only on a particular bet 990x
the rest of the bets gave 0.08+ % house edge increase which should have made hundreds of bitcoins extra to the site
them fixing it after all these years is nice and all , but if I lost a lot there I'd be pretty pissed to find out it wasn't totally fair and square
11 btc up is impressive off 500 btc wagered , in theory that should be  5 btc negative  , hope you cashed them out and spent on something good
wish I could boast same stats on any of the dice sites but math seems to be working as expected in my case - 100-200 btc wagered 1-2 btc down

Do you have any other evidence besides picture above, it seems like it's not latest analysis because you posted the same picture last June. Sometimes images can still be manipulated in such a way, I hope you provide evidence in the form videos or share helpful tips here.

 in 6 years. let say i gambled like this at 7-8 dice sites. luckygames and FJ are only sites that i'm up


on the other dice sites i'm down more than 11 btc

Do you have any proof of this? Even for several years, a profit of 11 bitcoins is very good. I have been playing dice since 2014 and I haven’t won in any of them, especially in the long run. Which method are you using?

even though i wagered 500btc over a few years at FJ. i'm up 11btc there


so i guess i am the master of dice. not even 10% edge can hold me down

So this was done on purpose, so that users often lose their money? 10.89% is a huge percentage, because everyone knows that even with 1% house edge it is often very difficult to play. I hope everything is really fixed.

Websites doesnt provide those needs yet as being said this would pertain about typical persons that do play or even just observing on the site and with their
own initiative they can able to spot it out but i would say the level of bug would vary on someones level of programming skills because they can analyze and detect
which isnt right compared to those zero knowledge specially if someone do had coding skills then bug bounty hunting would fit you out.

Since this thread is being answered by FJ representative and already got cleared, maybe its time to lock this thread/topic?

just send  payback  to my account


thanks.


cryptobet 

I mean has the issue really been solved? You have profited off this for years at the expense of your players, is there going to be any responsibility taken for this?

I believe that it is not necessary to look for some special topic on bitcointalk to deal with issues of finding vulnerabilities of a particular resource.  I think that the user, on his own initiative, can find some problems and directly contact the administration.  In any case, if the mistakes are serious, then the person will definitely be rewarded for this.  I have confidence only that only a decent team is able to evaluate the work of an attentive and professional person.
But in the fortunejack relationship, I am very surprised that this famous portal has been working since 2014 and still some problems still occur.

Even big names have this bugs on their websites because they are upgrading and updating on what's inside. I'm wondering what would a bug bounty hunter does though I'm pretty sure they are testing everything so they could find bugs cause it's pretty obvious but I'm still curious. Does the platform provide what they need? like funds? computer? or they are just ordinary people hired to play and report encountered bugs?

That's absurd. Maybe you should put some time reading what i wrote on my previous post. It wouldn't be that hard to calculate the effected rolls and players
Though less than half of the refund money will ever be withdrawn

Maybe they can, i think it will be asking too much from them. There may be players who played and left and no longer play on the sites. This will be a huge amount of effort to calculate all the bets and figure out the correct amount.
My opinion is to leave the past but for the future, good thing is that no further players can be affected by it.

Not really. They should be credited when they reimburse the players.



Exactly. And i don't think it would take more than few hours to figure out which roll numbers were incorrectly treated as loss
They just need to loop through all the bets and check whether the side is Roll Over and Game === roll number.

Since there are 11.2 Billion rolls history. The amount of incorrectly treated rolls would be somewhere 448K considering 40% of the rolls were "Roll over"
Though i would love to hear some stats from your side



I wasn't offered any bug bounty when the issue was resolved. I had to ask for it. So they offered 0.02 btc for years long bug
Had to complain about the amount offered for such huge bug, so they offered 0.1 btc which i was to either accept or reject



Whether it was done deliberately or overlooked, this is the subject we can only speculate about though the bug is really silly hence never found
Crediting the users back would be pretty darn easy. They would only need to credit about half a million rolls. Not a big deal for a dice game



I was about to ask this question to FJ when the issue was resolved but then i found few more bugs which showed signs of an exploit but ended up being just visual bugs and nothing serious



Not really that long. Just few hours to figure out the rolls effected and additional few hours to reimburse the effected players
And i got only 0.1 btc for the bug bounty. Would love to know how much you were awarded



Thought so. Didn't have much option at the end. I was supposed to either accept or reject an offer of 0.1 btc

For sites like Fortunejack there would really be a bounty bug for this one yet the level of technical problem is quite high so its expected to be high too.
If you arent caring too much on what did you find out then you would end up something like that same as you said.It is worthy to get up some rewards with
these finds arent that basic ones that a simple joe can find on.

Naa ahhh , this gonna be a long journey for them to completely reimburse everyone who affected since this bug indicated was there since day one.

Wondering how much fortunejack pay op for this finding ....   a long time ago I reported similar technical problems and received my bug rewards quite huge. At op case level it must be super huge rewards   . PM me op if you wonder how much I've got. I'll tell you mine.

However sometimes if you didn't ask for the bounty rewards.. you'll be considered help them voluntarily which I hated that part unfortunately.

I am more on "I/they/we don't care, since I/they/we did not urge to play on the site". I personally realized that after few minutes playing around with the site when I was seeking for sites 3 plus months ago, and then go away/ never turning back with simple thought that "it favour the house".

The key thing for them on Dice game is Min Bet vs Max Win range is too low to let a dice bot play for long enough rather than 0.49 vs 0.50 thing.

Some high volume players could have been seriously adversely affected by this.

Has Fortunejack mentioned how they plan to reimburse anybody that has had their money stolen in this way?

Yes they can if they want to really give meaning on "Provably Fair". They have tracks on record for each player, I know they can trace who encountered this bug on their dice game. Compensation for players are needed since they weren't aware of this, small or big bettors, they deserve to be treated with fairness. We get it, house always wins but the fact that there is a chance to win is undeniable.

They can if they wish to do it, there must be a full history of bets made at Fortunejack so they can give some compensation for those who were affected. Obviously as what is said by Stunna, it might be difficult and take a lot of time but I believe it can be checked. The amount of win bets that graded as lose bets can be a huge amount since its been many years already, lets see what Fortunejack is going to do to deal with this. IMO, giving bug bounty for those who find this bug is not enough because the affected players deserves to get their money back if they lost some money due to this bug.

I am sure this was not done deliberately and this bug has just been figured out. Obviously they cannot compensate the players for this but the good thing is that they have accepted it and will update it. Also the new bug bounty announced by fortune jack is yet another step towards transparency and good faith.

Given the way provably fair works, it should be relatively easy to go through all the old bets and award wins that were improperly graded as a loss (and notify people of the extra balance now in their account). I don't see how you could justify not doing it.

I wouldn't hold my breath though, I think they've always had a bit of a checkered past ... only doing the right thing if their feet were held to the fire.

That is actually such a nice thing to do by fortunejack with the bug bounty deed.

I mean they did had a problem, they didn't realize it or they didn't care because it was making them profit, then it got more public (you can see that they didn't care when support was helping but when it got to bitcointalk they cared, power of social media) and then people literally started to bug them about it and they fixed it, after fixing it and to make sure this topic gets a correction they gave OP some money or maybe they paid before the edit so that he would edit and show how it is fixed, if you pay OP he would edit and say it was fixed which would be easier than trying to open a new topic and show people it is fixed now, hence they paid the bug bounty, I doubt they would have otherwise.

Hi Dear Player,

I would like to publicly thank you for your dedication and for informing us over the issue. I hereby also confirm, that the issue has been solved from our side.

and btw, we have now started a bug bounty campaign on Tron's Integration to FortuneJack. If you or other members of community will be interested, you could also dig here too, will be greatly appreciated. You can read more here.

Again, thank you and wish you best of luck.

Cheers,
David.

Really a great job and thanks for reporting this even though I misunderstood you at first. Not often do new people arrive here and share such valuable information. I hope you keep it up and stay active in our forum, we need people like you! Well deserved bounty! =)

Well done op. You deserved the bug bounty for your effort in rectifying such a big issue. Usually, no one bothers with checking whether the mechanics are fine in such popular sites which is why FJ got away with this for so long.

For fixing an age old issue finally pointed out by a random user? Lol. This one reason and many more complaints against them are the reason why I don't gamble on FJ and prefer other sites like Bitsler etc even though I absolutely love the UI and design of FortuneJack.

It's pretty nuts that nobody noticed this even though it was a persistent issue for years. I'm curious to see how much extra Fortunejack made from this and what they will do to reimburse the effected players. Given that this issue dates back years it will be extremely difficult to even figure out who was effected and to what degree, but given this level of error they should really spend some time to get this right.

Well done to OP for finding and fixing this dice problem. Indeed as reflected just finding 1 number would be very hard for anyone doing it manually,,, and this is why we appreciate all the programmers and developers of the forum and their public service. I suppose we should also credit FJ for fixing this!

The error is resolved. Please check the main post for the update

Excuce me mate, my bad - I thought you were talking about the welcome bonus. Forget what I wrote, was late here. I agree this doesnt look too good then...

Their dice seem to be included on the casino games as well because i've wagered exactly 2x of my deposit and received my withdrawal. Plinko, mines and hi-lo probably have the same rollover requirements too since dice is also listed under their provably fair games. Also the wagering requirement is reduced to 1 if you're deposit is at least BTC0.3.

They are allowed, it's just that their terms and conditions on wagering requirements isn't clear.

Yeah, that's my point. They've likely overlooked the error for so long, since it benefits them. (Losing money is always a lot more obvious)  

Getting a specific number is hard if you look for it. In FJ it's 1 in 10000
But scripts make the work easier. Being a programmer has it's advantage

Do not be surprised. A lot of casinos even say Provably Fair when there is nothing you can do to check the fairness of their games.

A lot of people here do not even understand how the house edge works,,, which is why I only stick to a few games I trust when it comes to dice.

Now you make me curious though. Maybe it is that 0 is hard to see, especially I have never seen 0 in all the dice games I play but I play at 6 digit dice with 1 million possibilities so I will pay attention now!

Not sure how you did your maths but the off-by-one error concerned here benefits the House and not the player

---

New update. Please check the main post

I tried to play at FortuneJack to verify it, but trying to login gives an account suspended error. (lol?)


Anyway, it looks like an off-by-one error. Pretty sure this is the same bug that crypto-games had for a while, except they did it the other way (an extra possibility to win, so it was a negative house edge on high mults).

Not really sure how this happens to be honest. The maths is pretty insanely simple, something you'd expect most high-school students would figure out. I guess though when the error is in your favour, it's easier to overlook. 

Of course, nobody is forced to take the bonus on Fortune Jack and should know that there is nothing for free, especially when it comes to free money or bonuses.
Deposit bonuses and other promotions are tolls to attract people and turn them into depositing players and not to give away free money as it looks like.
The deposit bonus is like "We Welcome You - We Got You!" type of deal.

The main goal for any casino or dice is that the majority of deposited cash stays on the platform and to achieve this, strict bonus requirements and other rules were introduced.
One should never take any bonuses, especially without knowing the wagering requirements and other terms of promotion.

TBH I don't see any good bonuses today. In 2007 until 2010 there were 250$ no deposit bonuses everywhere, especially in Poker but casinos offered 100$ - 150$ no deposit bonuses also, with no problem and with minimal requirements. Don't mention deposit bonuses, which were insane because sometimes offered 500% to 5000$!!! With time passing, I have seen smaller and smaller bonuses with strict requirements. Finally, we have 2019 and there are almost no No Deposit bonuses, lately, I have seen a couple of 10 or 20$ offers with insane requirements. I remember was able to play months for free in casinos or poker using no deposit bonuses. To finish the story I will only add that I never won big, let's say something like a jackpot

The example shown is according to 990x payout. Main post has been updated to reflect this change but the calculation is correct
I simply assumed people would know that it's 990x payout since i mentioned that before



The fee is correct. The higher your payout is the higher the fee you pay
For a 2x payout which most people do, it's 1.01%, for 10x it's 1.09% and the highest it can go is 10.891% for 990x

Veleten is not even talking about welcome bonus. He is talking about any deposits made at Fortunejack needs to be wagered 2x (IIRC) on the casino games (slots) or needs to be wagered 50% on the sportsbook. I have no ideas if someone playing dice game only at Fortunejack will be able to withdraw their money as I don't find any terms about how much to wager on other games.

... and it totally makes sense mate, doesnt it? Who in the world would give away free money just like that, no strings attached? Nobody and here we are talking about casinos - they are the last to do so. 

I was never good in math, please explain why on FJ when I bet 9999 times you assume that I will only win 9 times and lose the rest (9990)   (is this just an example?)

Tried to understand but it seems to be wrong because when I have played on FJ the win rate seemed to hire, but TBH I never measured this properly, so don't know for sure.

From my experience only in 100 spins, I had 10 or even more wins, so how this correlates to this example above? I don't say is wrong only ask for explanation to understand it correctly, please.


Same with the fee, why such a huge difference? Is this example correct? Anybody checked it?

OP don't get me wrong I don't say this is not correct but kindly ask for more explanation if possible.

What if the user simply wanted to play dice by depositing funds and not claiming any bonus ? They should be allowed to withdraw

I guess they arent forcing anyone to take advantage of their welcome deposit bonus, are they? ... Actually, people have "problems" regarding their welcome bonuses in online casinos all the time due to wagering requirements etc. --> people should not claim any bonuses if they want to be able to withdraw without having to worry.

Is it true @FortuneJack ?


It is indeed. The edge goes as high as 10.891% from their highest multiplier 990x

Fortunejack has more problems than that , don't think too many players are using their dice anyways
the problem is with their wagering requirements on your deposit , you have to wager three times over to be able to withdraw and dice games are not counted towards the wagered
so if I were to play dice only I would simply not be able to withdraw

I can't confirm it since I don't play there anymore  , but this is an interesting find
effectively giving fortunejack extra  edge and misinforming players for years

Edit 5: Final update

The issue was recognized by the Fortunejack yesterday. Today around 11:45 UTC a new update was pushed
Hence the off-by-one error resolved.
Screenshot of the confirmation: https://imgur.com/a/mgH5Pzo
I checked the roll numbers and everything looks perfect.

I was also given a bug bounty when i asked for it.
So i guess the case is closed. I will still keep it open for any further discussions and questions

---

---

So i was checking out the payout numbers in the Dice game of FortuneJack. I spotted something wrong

Normally in a dice rolls you have numbers between 0 to 99.99 resulting in a total of 10000 numbers.
But Fortunejack seems to be invalidating roll 00.00 making it only 9999 numbers. Even the FAQ section of their dice says "The roll numbers between 0 and 99.99 ..."

So i am going to take example of Primedice here

For a 2x payout

In primedice, we have Roll under 49.50 (0 to 49.49 giving 4950 numbers) and Roll over 50.49 (50.50 to 99.99 giving 4950 numbers)
In fortunejack, we have Roll under 49.50 (00.01 to 49.49 giving 4949 number) and Roll over 50.50 (50.51 to 99.99 giving 4949 numbers)

For a 990x payout

In primedice, we have Roll under 0.10 (0 to 0.09 giving 10 numbers) and Roll over 99.89 (99.90 to 99.99 giving 10 numbers)
In fortunejack, we have Roll under 0.10 (00.01 to 0.09 giving 9 numbers) and Roll over 99.90 (99.91 to 99.99 giving 9 numbers)

Fortunejack calls it 0.1% win chance but technically it's 0.09%


FortuneJack

If you bet 10 satoshi 9999 times (0 is not counted) at 990x payout on FJ, you are to lose 9990 times and win 9 times.
Total bet amount = 10 * 9999 = 99990 satoshi
Total Win amount = 9 * 9900 = 89100 satoshi
Total lose amount = 99990 - 89100 = 10890 satoshi

Total fee = 10890/99990 = 10.89 %

PrimeDice

If you bet 10 satoshi 10000 times at 990x payout on PD, you are to lose 9990 times and win 10 times
Total bet amount = 10 * 10000 = 100000 satoshi
Total win amount = 10 * 9900 = 99000 satoshi
Total lose amount = 100000 - 99000 = 1000 satoshi

Total fee = 1000/100000 = 1 %


I even asked FortuneJack about this issue this was their reply : https://imgur.com/a/W9Qwz9I

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Edit : For a 10x payout the fee goes to 1.09% while they promise a house edge of 1%

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Edit2 : It looks like they have had this problem since they started : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Slh4k8yM11o

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Edit3: This is a 4 years old video on youtube which concerns this issue : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwtLPWjVxYI
The guy is using 6x payout for Roll over 83.50 But it should actually be 83.49

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Edit4: Update

It looks like their support guy wasn't looking very hard. Here are they apologizing about miscommunication : https://imgur.com/a/NAqLzrr
So 0 is counted. Of course i didn't just believe it but verified myself by running a script in the All bets page.

Now that we have 10000 possible numbers instead of 9999, We got a different problem
Fortunejack dice gives different Win chance for Roll under and Roll over.

For a 2x payout
In fortunejack, we have Roll under 49.50 (00.00 to 49.49 giving 4950 number) and Roll over 50.50 (50.51 to 99.99 giving 4949 numbers)

For a 990x payout
In fortunejack, we have Roll under 0.10 (00.00 to 0.09 giving 10 numbers) and Roll over 99.90 (99.91 to 99.99 giving 9 numbers)

So if i were to bet on FJ Dice, i would have a correct winning chance for Roll under but incorrect winning chance if i decided to go with Roll over
Not to mention the outrageous fee of up to 10.891% for Roll over

Here i am mentioning the concern : https://imgur.com/a/7xaFPtS
The issue is now under Investigation : https://imgur.com/a/rllgfZq

What boggles me is nobody care to notice this issue. FJ benefited from it for all these years and the users were mislead by an incorrect information.