FortuneJack settled a bet wrong and refusing to correct it [SOLVED]

Saint-loup

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Quote from: AHOYBRAUSE on September 10, 2024, 12:19:46 PM

It's nice OP finally has a solution but calling it a "goodwill gesture" to only refund the bet is a long shot. In my opinion it's fair to assume that OP won the bet actually since every other map bet stated "including overtime", his bet didn't so he had to assume that overtime is NOT included. So the result in regular time was 12:12 and he bet under 12.5 -> he won.
Sure OP will be happy to get at least some money back but I doubt it's the resolution he was hoping for to be honest.

The case is not so easy to settle IMO, because the rules applying to those e-sport bets say that overtime is included unless the market name "expressly" states otherwise. So market names should only specify an overtime exclusion when needed and nothing else theoretically, unlike what it has been done.
Then, in one hand, written rules are pretty clear regarding overtime for e-sport markets, in another hand market names are misleading and not really aligned with those rules. They should change this rule or change the way they are naming e-sport markets for more consistency IMO.

Quote

Sports T&C
Last updated on August 16, 2024
[...]
III. Esports special rules
1. General rules applicable to esports
[...]
1.10. All markets consider overtime, unless expressly stated otherwise in the market name.

https://fortunejack.com/faq/sportsbook

rohang

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Have received ans accepted the resolution FJ mentioned above.

I thank them for looking into this for me

AHOYBRAUSE

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Quote from: FortuneJack on September 10, 2024, 09:03:54 AM

Hey folks,

Apologies for the late response, I was away on vacation myself and so were other team members. But I'll add that I was in constant communication with both OP and Holydarkness, so while the case took longer than usual to come to a conclusion, we were still working on it.

We'll be able to help OP out in this situation and their bet will be refunded. If I'm not mistaken the refund should already be credited to his account.

We decided to refund the bet to OP as a goodwill gesture. They were really patient while waiting on our side to come to a decision, and also are a long-time member, so we decided to go with it this way. While the markets were a bit confusing, our sports provider wasn't really in the wrong here, but regardless of that, we came to this decision.

Thanks

-ADante

It's nice OP finally has a solution but calling it a "goodwill gesture" to only refund the bet is a long shot. In my opinion it's fair to assume that OP won the bet actually since every other map bet stated "including overtime", his bet didn't so he had to assume that overtime is NOT included. So the result in regular time was 12:12 and he bet under 12.5 -> he won.
Sure OP will be happy to get at least some money back but I doubt it's the resolution he was hoping for to be honest.

holydarkness

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Quote from: FortuneJack on September 10, 2024, 09:03:54 AM

Hey folks,

Apologies for the late response, I was away on vacation myself and so were other team members. But I'll add that I was in constant communication with both OP and Holydarkness, so while the case took longer than usual to come to a conclusion, we were still working on it.

We'll be able to help OP out in this situation and their bet will be refunded. If I'm not mistaken the refund should already be credited to his account.

We decided to refund the bet to OP as a goodwill gesture. They were really patient while waiting on our side to come to a decision, and also are a long-time member, so we decided to go with it this way. While the markets were a bit confusing, our sports provider wasn't really in the wrong here, but regardless of that, we came to this decision.

Thanks

-ADante

I can confirm this, that despite the delay due to mass-vacation, their rep [ADante, to be very specific] gave his best to remain in constant communication with me and persistently trying to get this one resolved, as best as he can despite the remote access [so I can imagine this vacation is kinda hell and stressful for him, LMAO]. So, kudos to FJ and their resolution attempt, and especially as they choose to refund the OP up-front, despite the investigation by their provider itself is still ongoing.

OP, can you please confirm that you've get the deposit? If you have, kindly mark this one as resolved and lock this?

FortuneJack

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www.fortunejack.com

Hey folks,

Apologies for the late response, I was away on vacation myself and so were other team members. But I'll add that I was in constant communication with both OP and Holydarkness, so while the case took longer than usual to come to a conclusion, we were still working on it.

We'll be able to help OP out in this situation and their bet will be refunded. If I'm not mistaken the refund should already be credited to his account.

We decided to refund the bet to OP as a goodwill gesture. They were really patient while waiting on our side to come to a decision, and also are a long-time member, so we decided to go with it this way. While the markets were a bit confusing, our sports provider wasn't really in the wrong here, but regardless of that, we came to this decision.

Thanks

-ADante

rohang

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Still waiting for an update/resolution from FJ

Today one of their staff told me he's waiting on an answer from the FJ team/odds provider

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Quote from: Saint-loup on August 31, 2024, 02:53:56 PM

Does someone know who is the odds provider of FortuneJack precisely? Because I would be suprised if the odds provider has made a mistake even after a complaint from the FJ customer support and a manual check of the outcome to be honest. It must be a rather common bet.
Their Terms and Conditions for sport and esport bets are rather long and exhaustive actually, so I guess they haven't been written by FJ themselves but by the odds provider instead. And they seem to be rather clear about this point tbh. On the other hand, the mention "(incl. overtime)" in the name of some esport bets is very(too much IMO) confusing and misleading for the customers, and it doesn't fit with their own rules about e-sport bets actually. So I think they should refund OP's bet at least, and change the title of their e-sport bets, in order to harmonize them about this point. It wouldn't be professional to leave things as they are currently, IMO.

OddsMatrix

Saint-loup

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Quote from: holydarkness on September 01, 2024, 09:51:23 AM

I was just from my inbox, replying ADante about something. Like... literally. I hit send and then go to new replies "page", and clicked this thread. If no one answer this and/or their rep hasn't officially respond to this query when I got a response on my inbox, I'll make sure I extend them this question.

The name of their odds provider you mean? I'm afraid they won't be very keen on disclosing it tbh. But they should do something because those discrepancies between their written rules and the names of their markets seem to even confuse the provider agents. Because the way the guy replied is ambiguous and could even be interpreted as contradictious when he says "the raund ended in overtime,the user didnt have the market for that", I agree with OP. We don't know what was the actual question sent by the customer service agent to them but the point was precisely about understanding if rounds played or ended during overtime apply to this market not mentioning "including overtime" in its title unlike others, and why.

holydarkness

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Quote from: Saint-loup on August 31, 2024, 02:53:56 PM

Does someone know who is the odds provider of FortuneJack precisely? Because I would be suprised if the odds provider has made a mistake even after a complaint from the FJ customer support and a manual check of the outcome to be honest. It must be a rather common bet.
Their Terms and Conditions for sport and esport bets are rather long and exhaustive actually, so I guess they haven't been written by FJ themselves but by the odds provider instead. And they seem to be rather clear about this point tbh. On the other hand, the mention "(incl. overtime)" in the name of some esport bets is very(too much IMO) confusing and misleading for the customers, and it doesn't fit with their own rules about e-sport bets actually. So I think they should refund OP's bet at least, and change the title of their e-sport bets, in order to harmonize them about this point. It wouldn't be professional to leave things as they are currently, IMO.

I was just from my inbox, replying ADante about something. Like... literally. I hit send and then go to new replies "page", and clicked this thread. If no one answer this and/or their rep hasn't officially respond to this query when I got a response on my inbox, I'll make sure I extend them this question.

Saint-loup

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Does someone know who is the odds provider of FortuneJack precisely? Because I would be suprised if the odds provider has made a mistake even after a complaint from the FJ customer support and a manual check of the outcome to be honest. It must be a rather common bet.
Their Terms and Conditions for sport and esport bets are rather long and exhaustive actually, so I guess they haven't been written by FJ themselves but by the odds provider instead. And they seem to be rather clear about this point tbh. On the other hand, the mention "(incl. overtime)" in the name of some esport bets is very(too much IMO) confusing and misleading for the customers, and it doesn't fit with their own rules about e-sport bets actually. So I think they should refund OP's bet at least, and change the title of their e-sport bets, in order to harmonize them about this point. It wouldn't be professional to leave things as they are currently, IMO.

BitcoinGirl.Club

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Quote from: rohang on August 30, 2024, 12:52:10 PM

Thanks for your kind words. Its a simple of matter of correct bet settlement, the funds were not from any bonus either

Hopefully it's going to resolve soon. Keep us updated.

rohang

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Quote from: holydarkness on August 30, 2024, 12:37:43 PM

Pure and honest curiosity, when did they changed representative? Ball park is fine.

I'm not accusing you of misinformation, I'm sincerely asking here out of curiosity, because their reps [yes, plural, the forum account is being handled by at least two different staffs] always signed their correspondences with me with the same name for quite some time. And these ones are very responsive with me. I wonder what it looked like if the previous one was even more responsive than the current ones.

I am pretty sure tokash has left FJ/left his current role. I know he used to handle their X + maybe bitcointalk too.

Another staff i know who left was kubb who i saw on their discord

Its possible one or both of them have just taken new roles, but the chatter on their discord is that they left

Quote from: Wapfika on August 30, 2024, 11:40:09 AM

Quote from: rohang on August 30, 2024, 11:34:55 AM

I know they are not known as a scamming casino, but as support said nothing else could be done i did not have any other way to dispute this, posting here would also give me opinions of other more experience crypto players,

I have been contacted by their rep and they are looking into it, however they are on some vacation so it might be slow.

Dealing with online support is very hassle especially on an issue that is trivial to them. They will just keep forwarding your issue to technical department then gives you a firm no answer without trying to give a consideration on your case.

IIRC, Fortunejack representative was changed since the previous one is always active and helpful. But they always keep doing their best to help users here in the forum that’s why they still keep the reputation solid despite having some isolated cases like this.

Your bet has some merit on it but I’m skeptical if they have ToS to support their finding like a deciding factor that ended on bet like this. Does the support quoted something from their ToS during your conversation?

They have not mentioned any ToS.
The 2 reponses in screenshot are the only ones they gave. As you can see i asked for sportsbook manager which was denied.

Hence i posted here.

Quote from: BitcoinGirl.Club on August 30, 2024, 12:19:58 PM

Quote from: rohang on August 30, 2024, 11:34:55 AM

I have been contacted by their rep and they are looking into it, however they are on some vacation so it might be slow.

There are nothing to worry. FJ is an old bookmaker and earned a lot of respect in the community. I know you from sportsbet.io thread and you always been nice so there are nothing to doubt about you too. I am sure it will be settled sooner or later. It's the anxious time for you to wait for the time.

Thanks for your kind words. Its a simple of matter of correct bet settlement, the funds were not from any bonus either

holydarkness

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Quote from: 348Judah on August 30, 2024, 10:39:47 AM

I see that you're a full member laying such accusation on the gambling platform which first attract my attention because the ones am used to see here were coming from the newbies in most cases, but in this case, you have already contacted their agent, chatted and they responded you with the reason for such experience, then maybe there is something elsewhere we are not seeing further and more light is needed in other for us to have more clue over the situation, but as regards the platform, they have their announcement thread here in which they use in passing out information across and you can check on their representative if he is still active on the ANN thread, but be rest assured that this platform is not known for what you're thinking of it, they have high reputation and profile here and many higher rank members are making use of their platform without issues.

I bet you didn't read the thread carefully and quite possibly [spam] posting the thread just for the sake of post count. Both OP and I have been in touch with the rep that handle forum's account. They know about this and promised each and both of us that they'll get to the bottom of it. Things will be just a bit slow due to mass vacation.

Quote from: Wapfika on August 30, 2024, 11:40:09 AM

[...]
IIRC, Fortunejack representative was changed since the previous one is always active and helpful. But they always keep doing their best to help users here in the forum that’s why they still keep the reputation solid despite having some isolated cases like this.[...]

Pure and honest curiosity, when did they changed representative? Ball park is fine.

I'm not accusing you of misinformation, I'm sincerely asking here out of curiosity, because their reps [yes, plural, the forum account is being handled by at least two different staffs] always signed their correspondences with me with the same name for quite some time. And these ones are very responsive with me. I wonder what it looked like if the previous one was even more responsive than the current ones.

BitcoinGirl.Club

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Quote from: rohang on August 30, 2024, 11:34:55 AM

I have been contacted by their rep and they are looking into it, however they are on some vacation so it might be slow.

There are nothing to worry. FJ is an old bookmaker and earned a lot of respect in the community. I know you from sportsbet.io thread and you always been nice so there are nothing to doubt about you too. I am sure it will be settled sooner or later. It's the anxious time for you to wait for the time.

Wapfika

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Quote from: rohang on August 30, 2024, 11:34:55 AM

I know they are not known as a scamming casino, but as support said nothing else could be done i did not have any other way to dispute this, posting here would also give me opinions of other more experience crypto players,

I have been contacted by their rep and they are looking into it, however they are on some vacation so it might be slow.

Dealing with online support is very hassle especially on an issue that is trivial to them. They will just keep forwarding your issue to technical department then gives you a firm no answer without trying to give a consideration on your case.

IIRC, Fortunejack representative was changed since the previous one is always active and helpful. But they always keep doing their best to help users here in the forum that’s why they still keep the reputation solid despite having some isolated cases like this.

Your bet has some merit on it but I’m skeptical if they have ToS to support their finding like a deciding factor that ended on bet like this. Does the support quoted something from their ToS during your conversation?

rohang

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Quote from: 348Judah on August 30, 2024, 10:39:47 AM

I see that you're a full member laying such accusation on the gambling platform which first attract my attention because the ones am used to see here were coming from the newbies in most cases, but in this case, you have already contacted their agent, chatted and they responded you with the reason for such experience, then maybe there is something elsewhere we are not seeing further and more light is needed in other for us to have more clue over the situation, but as regards the platform, they have their announcement thread here in which they use in passing out information across and you can check on their representative if he is still active on the ANN thread, but be rest assured that this platform is not known for what you're thinking of it, they have high reputation and profile here and many higher rank members are making use of their platform without issues.

Yes they are a pretty old platform that i myself am a user of since 4 years i think,

I know they are not known as a scamming casino, but as support said nothing else could be done i did not have any other way to dispute this, posting here would also give me opinions of other more experience crypto players,

I have been contacted by their rep and they are looking into it, however they are on some vacation so it might be slow.

348Judah

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I see that you're a full member laying such accusation on the gambling platform which first attract my attention because the ones am used to see here were coming from the newbies in most cases, but in this case, you have already contacted their agent, chatted and they responded you with the reason for such experience, then maybe there is something elsewhere we are not seeing further and more light is needed in other for us to have more clue over the situation, but as regards the platform, they have their announcement thread here in which they use in passing out information across and you can check on their representative if he is still active on the ANN thread, but be rest assured that this platform is not known for what you're thinking of it, they have high reputation and profile here and many higher rank members are making use of their platform without issues.

Beparanf

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Quote from: rohang on August 29, 2024, 11:31:29 AM

Its CS2 so its best of 24 rounds,

The general idea is heroic to NOT win in regular time, which they did not, as it was a draw.
Its like betting +0.5 on a soccer playoff game and it ends tied after regular time. You are betting on a team to NOT win during the 90 mins.
I bet on heroic to NOT win in regular time, which they did not.

Thanks for the clarification. I didn’t notice that it’s CS2 that’s why I’m a bit confused on the total score and your bet.

You’re right about your accusation that this bet was settled improperly since there’s no note about inclusion of OT in the game. They offer a less than 12.5 which means a game that result to tie at the end of regular time should be a win for you same with all the sports game and other e-sports.

rohang

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Quote from: holydarkness on August 29, 2024, 10:58:56 AM

OP, I've got a reply from their rep., and I was informed that they've reached you as well, and was informed about several things. They're getting to the bottom of this, but as several of the staffs are on leave [I guess they're on some corp. field trip or sth], things will be a bit slow. They assured me that they'll still give their best in spite of the current situation, and I will ask your patience on this. Rest assured that I will push periodically for updates until things got resolved.

Thanks, i am a bit active on their discord so i guess they recognised me and DM'ed me as well. I am aware they are looking into this as well as some staff being on vacation. Hopefully an update comes soon.

Quote from: Beparanf on August 29, 2024, 11:10:25 AM

Quote from: Rating Place on August 28, 2024, 05:06:16 PM

I'm not that familiar with esports. What is normal as far as bets? Are they normally settled regular time or is overtime included when it's not clear?

Usually it stated including overtime on bets like this.

What’s odd for me is CS:GO rules is race to 16 on each round which means a 16-12 outcome will not result to OT unless both team reach 15 score. Also it’s not clear to me that your bet is under 12.5 for Heroic while they won on the game which means you clearly loss based on my understanding that you are betting that Heroic will not win the game since it’s under the target score 16 to win the game 1.

~~I’m not updated on CS:GO rules but can you share the current rules?~~

I just saw the outcome https://www.hltv.org/stats/matches/mapstatsid/182384/b8-vs-heroic, it’s race to 12 but still the problem is your bet is somehow a bug but the general idea of your is for Heroic to lose the game since you are betting under the target score to win the map.

Its CS2 so its best of 24 rounds,

The general idea is heroic to NOT win in regular time, which they did not, as it was a draw.
Its like betting +0.5 on a soccer playoff game and it ends tied after regular time. You are betting on a team to NOT win during the 90 mins.
I bet on heroic to NOT win in regular time, which they did not.

Beparanf

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Quote from: Rating Place on August 28, 2024, 05:06:16 PM

I'm not that familiar with esports. What is normal as far as bets? Are they normally settled regular time or is overtime included when it's not clear?

Usually it stated including overtime on bets like this.

What’s odd for me is CS:GO rules is race to 16 on each round which means a 16-12 outcome will not result to OT unless both team reach 15 score. Also it’s not clear to me that your bet is under 12.5 for Heroic while they won on the game which means you clearly loss based on my understanding that you are betting that Heroic will not win the game since it’s under the target score 16 to win the game 1.

~~I’m not updated on CS:GO rules but can you share the current rules?~~

I just saw the outcome https://www.hltv.org/stats/matches/mapstatsid/182384/b8-vs-heroic, it’s race to 12 but still the problem is your bet is somehow a bug but the general idea of your is for Heroic to lose the game since you are betting under the target score to win the map.

holydarkness

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OP, I've got a reply from their rep., and I was informed that they've reached you as well, and was informed about several things. They're getting to the bottom of this, but as several of the staffs are on leave [I guess they're on some corp. field trip or sth], things will be a bit slow. They assured me that they'll still give their best in spite of the current situation, and I will ask your patience on this. Rest assured that I will push periodically for updates until things got resolved.

rohang

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Quote from: Rating Place on August 28, 2024, 05:06:16 PM

I'm not that familiar with esports. What is normal as far as bets? Are they normally settled regular time or is overtime included when it's not clear?

Some books dont have Incl OT mentioned on ANY of their markets, then i would assume OT is included on all markets.

However when some markets have Incl OT mentioned and others do not, its not wrong to assume OT is not included in other markets

Rating Place

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I'm not that familiar with esports. What is normal as far as bets? Are they normally settled regular time or is overtime included when it's not clear?

rohang

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Quote from: holydarkness on August 28, 2024, 11:34:15 AM

Quote from: rohang on August 28, 2024, 11:18:42 AM

[...] Thanks for your suggestion, i will wait a day for FJ rep and proceed for arbitration if needed

Let me try to page Tokash or ADante, see if I can get their attention and they would want to add something to explain their side here and/or to track your situation and get them sorted out. Do you mind to shot me your FJ username here? Perhaps it'll help them zeroing into your account.

Note to self: Holy, betID is 2439913380727894095

My user id is rohang, thankyou.

holydarkness

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Quote from: rohang on August 28, 2024, 11:18:42 AM

[...] Thanks for your suggestion, i will wait a day for FJ rep and proceed for arbitration if needed

Let me try to page Tokash or ADante, see if I can get their attention and they would want to add something to explain their side here and/or to track your situation and get them sorted out. Do you mind to shot me your FJ username here? Perhaps it'll help them zeroing into your account.

Note to self: Holy, betID is 2439913380727894095

rohang

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Quote from: AHOYBRAUSE on August 28, 2024, 11:03:22 AM

Clearly the casino/betting provider is wrong in this case, I mean when even the customer support is contradicting herself, what more is there to say.
If in other maps it's stated "overtime included" but in your map is doesn't the a player has to assume it actually doesn't. Guess it's an error on their side but thats not your fault actually. You made the bet on what you saw and what the betting history says. I must admit though, I never in my life made any bet on this kind of market, so my opinion is just based on basic visual facts.

Maybe forward this case to some arbitration site, your chances to at least get a refund re fairly high I assume.

Thanks for your response.

Quote

If in other maps it's stated "overtime included" but in your map is doesn't the a player has to assume it actually doesn't.

Exactly, perfectly said.
If was another thing if Incl. OT was not mentioned on ANY market, but its clearly mentioned on some markets and missing on others.

Thanks for your suggestion, i will wait a day for FJ rep and proceed for arbitration if needed

AHOYBRAUSE

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Clearly the casino/betting provider is wrong in this case, I mean when even the customer support is contradicting herself, what more is there to say.
If in other maps it's stated "overtime included" but in your map is doesn't the a player has to assume it actually doesn't. Guess it's an error on their side but thats not your fault actually. You made the bet on what you saw and what the betting history says. I must admit though, I never in my life made any bet on this kind of market, so my opinion is just based on basic visual facts.

Maybe forward this case to some arbitration site, your chances to at least get a refund re fairly high I assume.

xLays

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Quote from: rohang on August 28, 2024, 09:15:52 AM

Quote from: xLays on August 28, 2024, 09:04:38 AM

This has also happened to me, but in a different online casino. I won't mention the website because they might say I'm badmouthing them. But yeah, the same thing happened to me, but after I contacted customer support they fixed it right away, unlike in your case where they said you really lost. That's why, before I place a bet when there's no 'including overtime' mentioned, I first ask support for clarification. They should provide or show you the rules.

Thanks for response,
was it exact same market? can you show what your bet was please? and if it was same provider

Sorry, no. It's different market, but the scenario is the same: my bet was settled as a loss even though it should have been a win. After I contacted their support, they corrected it and gave me my rightful winnings. I hope the same will happens for you if your bet is actually a win. I trust FortuneJack for sure they will response here and fix your issue and clarifies this matter.

rohang

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Quote from: xLays on August 28, 2024, 09:04:38 AM

This has also happened to me, but in a different online casino. I won't mention the website because they might say I'm badmouthing them. But yeah, the same thing happened to me, but after I contacted customer support they fixed it right away, unlike in your case where they said you really lost. That's why, before I place a bet when there's no 'including overtime' mentioned, I first ask support for clarification. They should provide or show you the rules.

Thanks for response,
was it exact same market? can you show what your bet was please? and if it was same provider

xLays

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https://shuffle.com?r=nba

This has also happened to me, but in a different online casino. I won't mention the website because they might say I'm badmouthing them. But yeah, the same thing happened to me, but after I contacted customer support they fixed it right away, unlike in your case where they said you really lost. That's why, before I place a bet when there's no 'including overtime' mentioned, I first ask support for clarification. They should provide or show you the rules.

rohang

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What happened:: On Monday August 26 i made a bet on Heroic total rounds under 12.5 map 1 vs B8 in IEM Rio: EU qualifier CS2. Regular time score was 12-12 and they won in OT 16-12

Scammers Profile Link: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/fortunejack-303298

Amount Scammed: 546.65 USDT
Payment Method: USDT

Screenshot of bet:

Screenshot of markets on map 3 of same match:

Chat with support:

As you can clearly see in markets for map 3- its CLEARLY mentioned on first few markets (incl. Overtime)

The market i bet on does not say OT is included. In regular time the score was 12-12 so my bet is a win

Moreover, support has 2 answers--

First she admitted that in my bet OT doesnt include, but still said my bet is a loss because of the 4 rounds Heroic won in OT
Then she said that provider informed me this: "Bet is settled correctly,as the raund ended in overtime,the user didnt have the market for that,so the bet is Lost. Then my bet should be VOID at best, since there is no market that includes overtime as per the provider itself

IF OT is included on my bet market, whats the point of mentioning (Incl. OT) on other bet markets Huh

Anyone who sees that market screenshots will obviously assume the rounds market does not include OT

I have been betting esports for a long time, i know how all markets and rules work.
These rounds markets are not offered by any other crypto site (many use the same provider as FJ) AND there are NO RULES mentioned anywhere for this.

EDIT: A staff of FJ has messaged me and they are looking into this.

Topic: FortuneJack settled a bet wrong and refusing to correct it [SOLVED] (Read 485 times)