Topic: Forum Loan defaulters: What is the best way forward? (Read 337 times)

• Any lender that is offering to any random user of the forum without a collateral is doing so at their own peril
• Any lender giving loan to full member rank and below is doing so at their own peril because their account might not be collateral enough
• Any lender who gives higher amount of loan to people that are not in a long lasting campaign is also taking risks

Generally, I admire the courage of people who gives non collateral loans to non reputable members.

Have you invited anyone who facilitates loans to participate in this thread?

Yes, inasmuch as most people have a wallet which they use for different purposes, for me I think when it comes to do with this forum, that same wallet been used for a signature should be the exact same wallet been used to apply for a loan, as that is the only way to prove the person applying for that loan is actually the true owner of that account, because you never can tell, a person's account can be hacked and used in applying for a loan. Which is why I added that exact reason, because a wallet been used for a signature campaign is sure of having an inflow and outflow of funds.

Alright, thanks for asking me this question,. I chose 3 months specifically simply because just as traditional banks who has our complete informations give loans whereby if a user intends to be paying half of his salary he should be able to complete his loan payment in 12months. When it comes to this forum, I thought as much that since everybody here is anonymous, if anybody is to be given a loan, at least it should be an amount by which if he is been asked to pay his full weekly campaign payment for 3 straight months, at least that amount should be able to afford him complete his payment, whereas, if he is asked to pay half weekly, at least with 6 months such individual should be able to settle his debt. And nothing more than that.. (i.e Assuming signature campaign is his only source of income). While anything above that amount, should be base on the level of trust between the lender and the borrower. Thank you

Though there are some manager that always indicates that "this project is a long term campaign" meaning the manager has gone into deep discussion with their clients to know how long it would last. It's true some but maybe those ones they are not sure of, seeing my fellow man losing such amount of money is very saddened know how hard is the present economy globally and I wish there will be a solution to this to avoid further damages.

Frankly, I feel for Shasan. I saw that thread about him of Edwardard. Here's a member who's trying to run a genuine business but they're getting battered by those with evil intention not to reciprocate his kind gesture. It's heartbreaking to lose money to criminals whom you think need genuine help, not knowing their game plan is to scam you.

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You can bet that most managers don't know how long the campaigns they mange will last. Sometimes, they're told it's a three-week campaign but it stretches into months and years and sometimes the reverse is the case.

I like the rank panacea to the whole thing with a loan structure that will best suit the lender. Yes, I know it's going to affect genuine low ranked members who may need higher amount of cash. Anyway, it's what it's. Lenders have to find ways to defend their businesses before retards run them out of business.

A simpler solution is to not give loans to *anyone* unless they provide collateral of a minimum of 125% in a similar disposable crypto.

I'm less inclined to support a flag if the lender hasn't secured collateral.

Reject the loan request of anyone the lender trust they are potentially scammer - the rest is up to them. I think lenders know what the consequences of building such a service on a forum are - especially since it's all done anonymously.

Let them manage their own risks and be responsible for their services - we only help as much as possible to support flags and negative tags for anyone who has scammed the lender. So if you really want to open such a service - then the 4 thread pinned on the loan board are very useful to consider.

1. Lending Board Rules of Engagement - Attention Lenders and Borrowers
2. [EDU] The Rule of "No Collateral, No Loan" - IGNORE AT YOUR OWN RISK!
3. [EDU] How to spot a scammer (Read this before lending your coins!)
4. [EDU] EXERCISE CAUTION WHEN LENDING TO USERS!

I am not conversant with the loans terms and conditions on this forum but I have to say that I do not  completely agree with you here. While weekly earning may be one of the criteria for approving a loan request, I do not think that it should be the sole criteria. A person who is earning $50 from a campaign weekly may be earning so because that is tha budget of the signature campaign management. In addition, there are other ways of earning money off the forum to be able to repay their loan. These should be taken into consideration and left at the discretion of the loan giver.

The integrity of the forum isn't in question here, forum lenders and users' who borrow enter an agreement between themselves, it has nothing to do with the forum or its integrity, nor can it damage the community (as you say).

Each lender has their own set of rules, you can only advise them to tighten their rules, but you can't enforce it, so technically "we" cannot address this issue. That being said, it is sad to see that quite a lot of forum lenders have been scammed over the years, in their bid to assist users' in this forum. The thing is, no matter the rules set by a lender, it is still possible for one to default, but tightening their rules would reduce the chances of it happening.

You shared good points here, logically the known lenders in our forum they surely know all these instructions and warnings, Last time, I posted a topic about a similar situation of a user who has an account from 2013, recently woke up from a long period of no activity and his first post was asking a loan of 500$. Clearly, it was a scam attempt, and obviously Shasan the lender didn't accept his request.
There are many situations where a user can ask for a personal loan and it's hard for the lenders to study that case and recognize that user real intentions.
Personally, I ask for loans that can easily repaid with signature campaigns, in the agreed timing.

The thread have been moved already to the "Reputation" board, which I think is still a better board for such discussion, far better "Lending board or Service Discussion board", as this emphasize on not only lending, but how it has affected the forum negatively, as we strive in search for possible solutions to curb this menace, as it affects lenders, both psychologically and  emotionally.


I wished such KYC would have been possible, but you know how the forum works, not everybody will love to reveal his/her identity just to take a loan, while secondly, I don't think Lenders has such capacity or tool to verify whatever KYC been presented by members here on this forum to test if whether is it true or false, and as such make that option likely not to be applicable.

These three points of concern can actually be answered with one solution, returning to the basic rule of crypto lending "no collateral, no loan".

Honestly, this forum is the first time where I see loan rules can be softer for trusted users than conventional loans. While the new crypto lending model in the defi ecosystem does not eliminate collateral as a vital requirement, there is no level of trust.

I am personally against the concept of a loan unless it is for an emergency or you have a risk-adjusted investment plan. If someone is unable to save money and save it, he will not return your money to you.
In the forum, borrowing is done with a collateral or by relying on trust, but due to the large number of members on the DT list, reviewing the trust list is necessary to determine whether it results from transactions and deals with the user or not.

Therefore, it varies from case to case, and in any case, even if you take all precautions, you may be scammed, so it is best to stop lending services.

By the way, DarkStar_  is no longer active.

This issue has been bothering me as well and I have been thinking of a way we all can curb it but yet to get a concrete resolution. I read the thread you linked in your post and I feel sad for the lender. The lenders are always at the receiving end because some of these scammers may likely create another account. The red tag is not enough to help reduce this fraudulent act in the forum. I think it's high time the lenders should start requesting for KYC and if defaulted, the scammer identity should be reveal to public. Online loan apps that don't offer up to that amount can do anything to tarnish the image and reputation of defaulters. I don't think they deserve respect and privacy. Sadly, they may provide fake identity and claim it as their own. I'm sure with time, we can have a better way of handling the defaulters.

No matter how much advice is given, in the end it is a personal decision to be made by the lender. If I remember correctly both Royse777 and DireWolfM14 stopped lending because some defaults left them in loss. In the end lending has a risk that the lender assumes, and if in the end it is not profitable or leaves them in losses, what they do is that they stop lending. And besides, they have devoted time and effort to running the lending business. I don't know if DarkStar_ has a special art for this, because it seems that I have been running a successful lending business for a long time.

Setting conditions to avoid loan defaults is not the responsibility of the forum administration, nor should it be. On this basis, I do not think that this is the appropriate section to publish and discuss this topic.

Starting to ask about collaterals will not encourage many people to obtain a loan on good terms, and therefore it will not be a good business field. There are other lenders on the forum who constantly request collaterals, and you can check their page to notice that their service is not active at all, even though they have not stopped their services.
The second option may be more practical, but the possibilities must be determined and ways to deal with them, especially in the event that the borrower fails to pay for a week or more. Delays are very common in such transactions, and a wise lender is the one who will be good at dealing with them.

Meta is for discussions about Forum-related issues. Lending, loan defaulters are not forum-related issues. This thread does not belong to Meta board.

If you want to discuss about it, move it to Lending board or Service Discussion board.

[EDU] EXERCISE CAUTION WHEN LENDING TO USERS!
[EDU] The Rule of "No Collateral, No Loan" - IGNORE AT YOUR OWN RISK!
What is considered collateral?

What collateral would they give that will be equated with $15k usdt, give a token not listed in market or give their account details as collateral or what? I think that was then if he is giving out such huge amount of loan without any collateral but currently I don't think if he would still try to give out such amount again. Although I can't judge but can only give to people he has been doing business with no doubt, if any new person come to seek that huge amounts I don't think it will be possible currently. However, what I outlined may not be the final solution but rather as a contribution if they feels to implement the suggestion then it's left for them to readjust the amount which might not be exact what I listed above.

For the record, DarkStar was accept a loan that ask $15,000 in USDT, it's a way way more higher than the maximum amount you said above. There's shouldn't be any restriction or moderation for people who dare to open the lending service, let they do anything they want, if they get scammed then it's what it's.

What next? asking KYC? there's nothing safe in lending service except the borrower can give a legit and liquid collateral.

You have spoken and written well but let me clear one thing we don't know here, any one who have an evil act towards borrowing money can never be changed no matter how hard or strictly the lender may seems to be. In real world outside this forum there are people who are in founds of accumulating debt here and there not because they don't have means of pay back but it's an evil acts or do I call it wicked acts maybe I can say bad spirit in them that do not allowed them to settle their loan.

Even though all this are implemented we would still have defaulters, so what I will like to suggest is that if possible lender should try to confirm from the manager who is managing their campaign to know how long it would last so that if giving any campaigners a loan he would know when their campaign will last and he will also know maximum amount to give to such person, after confirmation the lender should keep records so that when another participants come to apply he would know when their campaign going to end.

Then lastly, just as you said lender should reduced the rate at which he release money at least maximum loan for a regular person should be $1,500 ( I mean a reputable user who often take loan from them) and also in long term project, then rest application should be limited to $300 to $600 maximum and this should be based on your account rank, for full members $100 to $150 max, for Sr. member $150 to $300 max, then for Hero/legendary $300 to $600.

But if they request above this then lender should know how close or how often they have been doing business together or possibly he should have direct contact with the person either whatsapp number or Facebook username should be shared in pm to established additional trust.

You're just give few obvious thing that the lenders already know in the first place! you also didn't mention the most important thing to judge someone  trustworthiness which is "trade history" aka "accounts feedback".

Your example @shasan, is really experienced in lending service and users who scammed him isn't looks like a scammer. If I were him, I would also lend them as they have a good history and reputable.

Since evaluating an account as best as possible still make you get scammed, if you want to prevent it 100%, the only way is stop the service.

I don't know where to classify shasan Loan Service. If it's just for profit alone, the amount of money that defaulters have stolen from him is enough reason for him to stop his loan service, but he or she just seems to be someone who is out there to help those who are in need and with an open mind, and he trusts people need help. It's just unfortunate that most people take his kindness for weakness.
 
I have come across a thread where someone even suggested shasan end his loan service due to the high rate of losses that he has been recording, but his statement back then was that he doesn't plan on stopping that any time soon, and many were saying things like he should turn his service into a charity kind of thing since he just likes to help people.
 
But that's not the case. I have benefited from the shasan loan service when I needed it, and I pay it back so fast because something I was expecting came in earlier than I expected. That's what I believe the service is for, but some people are just out of their minds for others downfall, which is really not good.

Most at times this loans defaulters especially the high amount defaulters do not depend on the signature earnings to pay back and This goes same way as members earning $100 weekly and asking for a $1k dollar loan. This rule would affect them but they lenders sometimes give out this loans to people still because they check their account activity and the trust they have kept in past trades. Even if this is implemented people that want abscond without paying would still carve a way to do it.

I have noticed many who regularly takes loans, pays back. Gradually they increase the limits and then once they think it's enough for them to exit, then exit. The young millionaire is a good example. I don't think crypto loan should be none-collateral. I find it hard for shasan to be honest. In the recent times I have seen many loan default from him but he still continues the business. Perhaps he makes enough money to recover the losses.

Umm.... it is actually very common for people to give lenders a brand-new address that is generated by their wallet. Received funds is not a good indicator for trustworthiness because the person who has a lot of funds coming in could just chose to not pay.

You only take a loan if you have an urgent situation to deal with and don't have enough BTC at the moment without buying more.

I am one of the regular borrowers of loan from shasan. I would say it is better to always give loan to them with whom you have a sort of lending relationship. Non collateral lending is a big risk and I have seen him regularly posting about those individuals who have defaulted in non collateral lending. It is risky but yet worthy if you have clients like me  . They only way to solve the issue is to start asking for collateral. The second option is to ask for weekly repayments. The last option would be to stop giving loan.

Greetings everyone here on this forum, I hope you guys are all having a wonderful time. Alright, please there is this pressing issue which I have noticed to have been occurring here on this forum for over a lone period now, and yet it has been on an increasing number which I will like us to discuss & deliberate what possible solutions can we use to address this menace, and I'm sure most of you should be asking what am I taking about, and by that I mean "Forum Loan Defaulters", just as I just came across This thread recently, and the main reason why I created this thread, because if we all keep mute, not only are these defaults likely to damage  themselves, but our entire forum community at large, and as such we all need to come up with best possible solutions to address this menace, in other for lenders to be able to determine who is and who is not eligible to get a loan, so as to drastically reduce the rate at which people default for loan, while we maintain the integrity this forum has always got once day one.


So here are my few solutions to solving the problem of loan defaulters.

1. Do not give a loan to an account that may have been found to have woken up after a very long time:


It's been proven that people buy & sell accounts here on this forum, and I think it's high time people giving out loans consider how active a person has been on this forum before issuing loan to them, so as to avoid future issues of loan defaults.
(E.g imagine a person buys a Hero member accout for $300 and then use that account to take a loan of $1000, that individual must have probably made a profit of $700), and as such they don't mind damaging such accounts with multiple red tags.



2. Do not give a loan to anybody whose wallet address shows he/she has not been receiving  inflow of funds for the past 120 days:


Just as 120 days is a factor to be consider while joining a signature campaign, I highly recommend how much comes in & out of person's wallet who intend to take a loan also be considered, because this is money, and it will be very bad to give loan to someone that have been proven not to have a steady inflow of funds. Because how is he supposed to pay back loan of he is not having steady income?



3. Do not give a loan amount to anyone whose  his/her full 3 months signature campaign payment can not afford to settle such loan:


Imagine a person earning $50 weekly come and asks for a loan of $500 from a lender, because to me, no matter how active such person may have been on this forum, such loan should not be granted, as it is a complete red flag. As the only loan that should be given to people is an amount which his/her Full signature campaign payment could be able to able to pay between 1 or 2 months, because normally nobody will want to be giving out his full weekly payment, and as such if then happens to pay half, then it will be able to take him 2 to 4 months to complete his loan payment.


So that's all I have to say..  

However, What have you to add to this, as your opinion will be very important to those that have been lending loans here on this forum. (e.g Shasan, DarkStar, Condoras).

Thank you & may God bless you all.