From Gold & Stocks to Bitcoin: An Exodus?

wxa7115

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Bitcoin is GOD

Quote from: Pearls Before Swine on September 03, 2017, 04:35:20 PM

Quote from: iamTom123 on August 30, 2017, 11:16:51 PM

gold earnings

Gold doesn't have 'earnings'. And I would argue that the gold market was on fire
right up until 2011, when it was $2000/ounce or so. It's been flat ever since, although
in the past few weeks it hasn't been doing too badly. Gold, so I've heard, isn't supposed
to be a money making investment; it's supposed to be a hedge against inflation, i.e., it
should keep its value, whereas fiat money inflates.

People are just chasing hot investments, and bitcoin has been one of the hottest lately.
Call it an exodus, whatever. That's what's happening.

True, that is a very common misconception, gold is not an investment, gold is a way to protect against devaluation, this was discovered as far as the ancient Greeks and gold has been doing that for thousands of years and yet people seem to still have mistaken ideas about gold.

centralbanksequalsbombs

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Bitcoin :open immutable decentralized global fair

Quote from: Pearls Before Swine on September 03, 2017, 04:35:20 PM

Quote from: iamTom123 on August 30, 2017, 11:16:51 PM

gold earnings

Gold doesn't have 'earnings'. And I would argue that the gold market was on fire
right up until 2011, when it was $2000/ounce or so. It's been flat ever since, although
in the past few weeks it hasn't been doing too badly. Gold, so I've heard, isn't supposed
to be a money making investment; it's supposed to be a hedge against inflation, i.e., it
should keep its value, whereas fiat money inflates.

People are just chasing hot investments, and bitcoin has been one of the hottest lately.
Call it an exodus, whatever. That's what's happening.

Sure but only some private investment funds, hedge funds, private partnerships, endowment funds are BEGINNING to dip tiny allocations into this new uncorrelated financial asset.

This year and next they will play catch up until Bitcoin (in some year long-time from now) normalizes to size of an invested financial asset with a market cap above $300B (current market cap at time of this writing is less than $80B).

And whether financial assets swell or waves of credit start to recede from these assets, there is an INCREASING amount of net investment INTO bitcoin EVEN AT recent "HIGH" PRICES.

Evidence of said recent phenomenon:

Quote from: centralbanksequalsbombs on September 02, 2017, 12:43:25 AM

Quote from: centralbanksequalsbombs on August 29, 2017, 10:36:06 PM

Quote from: centralbanksequalsbombs on August 26, 2017, 04:14:38 PM

If the market were to collapse (modern-day markets pegging S&P 500 US Stocks index as a worldwide primer) - where will the flight to safety be?

Quantfunds (Quantitative investment funds that rely on mathematical models for investments) are infamous at crunching through vast arrays of data across all asset types to use combine investments of less-correlated assets together to acheive great investment returns while still being defensive during down markets.

What will hedge fund / quant-fund data show?

Since mid-June here were the performance of asset-classes when S&P 500 was down more than -0.2% in a day.

There were only 10 days since mid-June where daily drop of S&P exceeded -0.2%. The above compares how Bitcoin, Gold, Long Term US Treasury Bonds, US Commercial Real Estate (REIT), and Bullish US Dollar Index did on those same days.

The assets are represented by most established, regulated, liquid ETFs:
Gold ticker: IAU - iShares Gold Trust
Long Term US Treasury Bonds ticker - TLH - iShares 10-20 Year Treasury Bond
US Commercial Real Estate ticker - VNQ - Vanguard Real-Estate-Investment-Trusts ETF
Bullish USD index ticker - UUP - PowerShares DB US Dollar Index Bullish

Where will the flight to safety be in terms of assets/investments?

There are already 3 large institutional investment vehicles for private investments, hedge funds, and quant-funds to get bitcoin exposure:
-XBT provider's bitcoin swedish nasdaq etf (priced in SEK currency) : bitcoinxb / bloomberg ticker: coinxbt [not real btc]
-Grayscale's bitcoin Over-the-counter markets fund : GBTC [not real btc]
-Gemini's exchange's daily auctions of bitcoin buyers and sellers [real btc?]

This is outside of the many popular exchanges that exist for bitcoin and cryptocurrencies including p2p exchange localbitcoins. [real BTC]

Does it seem to be that private investors see an easy flight to safety into bitcoin for its investment portfolios?

These past 24 hours served as yet another example; global newslines ringing alarms of N.Korea missles flying past Japan as well as continued floods in Texas and Mumbai India - amidst all the trouble, alot of money had flowed into "safety" of Bitcoin to push it to new highs.

It seems this pattern has already been established - and funds will continue to flow into bitcoin when other financial assets falter?

Any comments? On Global assets and fiat?

Pearls Before Swine

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Quote from: iamTom123 on August 30, 2017, 11:16:51 PM

gold earnings

Gold doesn't have 'earnings'. And I would argue that the gold market was on fire
right up until 2011, when it was $2000/ounce or so. It's been flat ever since, although
in the past few weeks it hasn't been doing too badly. Gold, so I've heard, isn't supposed
to be a money making investment; it's supposed to be a hedge against inflation, i.e., it
should keep its value, whereas fiat money inflates.

People are just chasing hot investments, and bitcoin has been one of the hottest lately.
Call it an exodus, whatever. That's what's happening.

wxa7115

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Activity: 2814

Merit: 734

Bitcoin is GOD

Quote from: Yuuto on September 03, 2017, 04:20:00 AM

Quote from: iamTom123 on August 30, 2017, 11:16:51 PM

In the past many years, gold has not been a stellar performer and some are even calling gold earnings as flat and bland, so to speak. This year, it can now be told that gold seems to be lacking the necessary shine and luster. As investors are looking for other ways to get the most return of their money, many are shifting to cryptocurrencies...away from the traditional gold and the conventional stocks.

Added to this situation is the fact that some monetary policies espoused by many governments further shave the remaining trust some people on centralized financial system. This is making Bitcoin and other cryptos taking the role as the new safe haven...a title long held by the physical gold.

Right now, there is an "exodus" away from gold and stocks and the line is now on the doorsteps of Bitcoin. The thing is that Bitcoin is now the safe haven and at the same time this haven is also the heaven when it comes to earnings or ROI.

Thus, we now have Bitcoin as the new safe haven and the heaven of many returns! What a great twist of things...but this is not anymore surprising.

Gold and silver investors are probably one of the groups of people that have a very close set of ideologies to bitcoin. But i don't think that they would exit their precious metals investments just because bitcoin is going up.

I've seen a lot of stackers diversify into bitcoin, but none of them is giving up their entire stack to get into bitcoin. Which is pretty wise in my opinion since the price of bitcoin is pretty high, and imo precious metals are undervalued atm.

In future, this is going to be the trend. People transitioning from traditional assets into bitcoin, which will be viewed as a true store of value once enough people adopts it. Widespread adoption + anti-inflationary properties of bitcoin will mean that in the long run its value will go up steadily.

Well, gold and silver are the best store of value available so it does not make sense to drop that for bitcoin, but bitcoin is a better investment, so people are choosing the safer alternative, hold most of your gold and silver but get some bitcoin just in case it goes up, because as we have seen recently, bitcoin is going to keep going up for the next years.

Basmic

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The number of bitcoins will be limited and everyone can never have the coins. I think that the investor will be a part of their savings stored in bitcoins, and for cold storage will use the old, tested through the centuries gold.

Yuuto

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Quote from: iamTom123 on August 30, 2017, 11:16:51 PM

In the past many years, gold has not been a stellar performer and some are even calling gold earnings as flat and bland, so to speak. This year, it can now be told that gold seems to be lacking the necessary shine and luster. As investors are looking for other ways to get the most return of their money, many are shifting to cryptocurrencies...away from the traditional gold and the conventional stocks.

Added to this situation is the fact that some monetary policies espoused by many governments further shave the remaining trust some people on centralized financial system. This is making Bitcoin and other cryptos taking the role as the new safe haven...a title long held by the physical gold.

Right now, there is an "exodus" away from gold and stocks and the line is now on the doorsteps of Bitcoin. The thing is that Bitcoin is now the safe haven and at the same time this haven is also the heaven when it comes to earnings or ROI.

Thus, we now have Bitcoin as the new safe haven and the heaven of many returns! What a great twist of things...but this is not anymore surprising.

Gold and silver investors are probably one of the groups of people that have a very close set of ideologies to bitcoin. But i don't think that they would exit their precious metals investments just because bitcoin is going up.

I've seen a lot of stackers diversify into bitcoin, but none of them is giving up their entire stack to get into bitcoin. Which is pretty wise in my opinion since the price of bitcoin is pretty high, and imo precious metals are undervalued atm.

In future, this is going to be the trend. People transitioning from traditional assets into bitcoin, which will be viewed as a true store of value once enough people adopts it. Widespread adoption + anti-inflationary properties of bitcoin will mean that in the long run its value will go up steadily.

magneto

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Quote from: iamTom123 on August 30, 2017, 11:16:51 PM

In the past many years, gold has not been a stellar performer and some are even calling gold earnings as flat and bland, so to speak. This year, it can now be told that gold seems to be lacking the necessary shine and luster. As investors are looking for other ways to get the most return of their money, many are shifting to cryptocurrencies...away from the traditional gold and the conventional stocks.

Added to this situation is the fact that some monetary policies espoused by many governments further shave the remaining trust some people on centralized financial system. This is making Bitcoin and other cryptos taking the role as the new safe haven...a title long held by the physical gold.

Right now, there is an "exodus" away from gold and stocks and the line is now on the doorsteps of Bitcoin. The thing is that Bitcoin is now the safe haven and at the same time this haven is also the heaven when it comes to earnings or ROI.

Thus, we now have Bitcoin as the new safe haven and the heaven of many returns! What a great twist of things...but this is not anymore surprising.

Interesting analysis. I think that precious metals stackers are still holding onto their stack because most of them are long term investors and not just there for the short term, but i've seen a lot of precious metals holders as well as stock traders diversify into bitcoin.

With the widespread media attention recently, i think there has been an influx of new bitcoin investors as a result. It is seen as the digital gold, that could potentially provide a better alternative for gold with more convenience.

This trend should continue into the future, as adoption continues to grow with btc. And this is ultimately what is going to be pushing bitcoin price up in the long run.

xypos

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Quote from: iamTom123 on August 30, 2017, 11:16:51 PM

In the past many years, gold has not been a stellar performer and some are even calling gold earnings as flat and bland, so to speak. This year, it can now be told that gold seems to be lacking the necessary shine and luster. As investors are looking for other ways to get the most return of their money, many are shifting to cryptocurrencies...away from the traditional gold and the conventional stocks.

Added to this situation is the fact that some monetary policies espoused by many governments further shave the remaining trust some people on centralized financial system. This is making Bitcoin and other cryptos taking the role as the new safe haven...a title long held by the physical gold.

Right now, there is an "exodus" away from gold and stocks and the line is now on the doorsteps of Bitcoin. The thing is that Bitcoin is now the safe haven and at the same time this haven is also the heaven when it comes to earnings or ROI.

Thus, we now have Bitcoin as the new safe haven and the heaven of many returns! What a great twist of things...but this is not anymore surprising.

Seems like it. I thik that people prefer the conenience and liquidity of bitcoin compared to the bulky nature of preciosu metals. Plus, everything is secured in lines of code and open source. It really gives people a true chance to secure their wealth.

However, i think that precious metals are still going to be thriving in the future. Gold and silver market cap is still very far beyond the current btc market cap.

This is a very big factor in this pump, imo. People want to move their assets into btc, because of the fact that governments can't reach them.

wxa7115

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Bitcoin is GOD

Quote from: iamTom123 on August 30, 2017, 11:16:51 PM

In the past many years, gold has not been a stellar performer and some are even calling gold earnings as flat and bland, so to speak. This year, it can now be told that gold seems to be lacking the necessary shine and luster. As investors are looking for other ways to get the most return of their money, many are shifting to cryptocurrencies...away from the traditional gold and the conventional stocks.

Added to this situation is the fact that some monetary policies espoused by many governments further shave the remaining trust some people on centralized financial system. This is making Bitcoin and other cryptos taking the role as the new safe haven...a title long held by the physical gold.

Right now, there is an "exodus" away from gold and stocks and the line is now on the doorsteps of Bitcoin. The thing is that Bitcoin is now the safe haven and at the same time this haven is also the heaven when it comes to earnings or ROI.

Thus, we now have Bitcoin as the new safe haven and the heaven of many returns! What a great twist of things...but this is not anymore surprising.

I will not call it an Exodus but there is not a single doubt in my mind that the recent increase in price comes from the fact that more people are turning their heads to bitcoin and are deciding to invest in it, if this becomes a trend then get ready folks because the price will skyrocket even harder than it has a t the moment.

hatshepsut93

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It's happening, but very slowly, which is good, because we don't need any hyper speculation. Bitcoin and crypto market cap is still a tiny fraction of legacy financial system, and if full exodus to happen, the market would grow hundreds and thousands of times. But I don't think that this is realistic, more likely crypto, gold and fiat will continue coexisting. Most people will be using whatever is best for them for investing, storing and using, which will lead to different choices.

pisston

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Quote from: Rahar02 on September 01, 2017, 08:43:04 AM

Quote from: TheQuin on August 30, 2017, 11:41:18 PM

I'm interested what evidence you have that "there is an "exodus" away from gold and stocks"? With gold at YTD highs back over $1300 and stock indices at all time highs, it would seem the opposite is true.

I've been an advocate of Bitcoin since 2013 and I truly believe that it has potential to go massively higher. However, it is ridiculous to suggest that it is a safe haven. It is a highly speculative investment that has the potential to give spectacular returns, but as always that comes with a high level of risk.

There's no way to get the data as people trade gold or stocks at their will, not to publish it or report their transactions to public.
We just guessing, when bitcoin price increase but gold or stocks prices are declining. I've been watching over gold prices for a while and you're right, the price rise to $1323 right now. I am not sure what affects gold price, who decide whether it goes up or down.
But, I am sure people know that invest in bitcoin is more profitable than invest in gold.

It seems to me that it is inappropriate to compare Bitcoin with gold. In all cases and circumstances, gold has a more stable position and with gold content or investing in gold, the user reduces the new risk of losing their finances, unlike working with crypto currency.

Rahar02

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Quote from: TheQuin on August 30, 2017, 11:41:18 PM

I'm interested what evidence you have that "there is an "exodus" away from gold and stocks"? With gold at YTD highs back over $1300 and stock indices at all time highs, it would seem the opposite is true.

I've been an advocate of Bitcoin since 2013 and I truly believe that it has potential to go massively higher. However, it is ridiculous to suggest that it is a safe haven. It is a highly speculative investment that has the potential to give spectacular returns, but as always that comes with a high level of risk.

There's no way to get the data as people trade gold or stocks at their will, not to publish it or report their transactions to public.
We just guessing, when bitcoin price increase but gold or stocks prices are declining. I've been watching over gold prices for a while and you're right, the price rise to $1323 right now. I am not sure what affects gold price, who decide whether it goes up or down.
But, I am sure people know that invest in bitcoin is more profitable than invest in gold.

exstasie

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Quote from: thecodebear on August 31, 2017, 04:52:39 PM

Quote from: exstasie on August 31, 2017, 04:31:31 PM

Quote from: alyssa85 on August 31, 2017, 06:23:58 AM

It's strange you've started this topic, because Forbes has done an article today saying "Bitcoin is the new Gold":

https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosmourdoukoutas/2017/08/30/bitcoin-is-the-new-gold/#77e785013b36

Quote

North Korean dictator Kim Jong-un is launching missiles over Japan. China is trying to write its own navigation rules in South China Sea. Washington is in disarray. Global debt continues to pile up. And central banks continue to hold interest rates at near zero levels.

Global uncertainty is rising. Yet, gold isn’t rallying.

Bitcoin, the new ‘gold,’ is.

Once, gold was the hedge against uncertainty, the asset where investors could park their cash in times of political and economic turmoil. Now Bitcoin is taking its place, as evidenced by the performance of the two assets in recent months.

Why does this keep getting repeated, though? Yes, gold had a 4-year correction to an insane bull market. That correction ended in 2015. Just look at a weekly (and especially monthly) chart. Gold formed a very solid higher low in late 2016. We're closing a beautiful, fat monthly green candle at new local highs.

It seems pretty clear from my TA that we are heading for a retest of the $1375 highs, and likely will establish a monthly uptrend once the highs are broken.

Gold has been rallying hard for 1.5 years...

Gold may as well be standing still in comparison to bitcoin.

Think about what you're saying. Gold had a nearly 700% price increase over 10 years (2001-2011). At the lows, the market capitalization was ~ $1.5 trillion. To move the market, it took more money by orders of magnitude when compared to BTC.

You're using the same logic that shitcoiners use to pump their coins. Yes, low market cap altcoins can net you much, much bigger % gains than BTC. Any day of the week. Are you going to stick all your money into low market cap altcoins?

Diversification of one's portfolio is a beautiful thing. Wink

thecodebear

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Quote from: exstasie on August 31, 2017, 04:31:31 PM

Quote from: alyssa85 on August 31, 2017, 06:23:58 AM

It's strange you've started this topic, because Forbes has done an article today saying "Bitcoin is the new Gold":

https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosmourdoukoutas/2017/08/30/bitcoin-is-the-new-gold/#77e785013b36

Quote

North Korean dictator Kim Jong-un is launching missiles over Japan. China is trying to write its own navigation rules in South China Sea. Washington is in disarray. Global debt continues to pile up. And central banks continue to hold interest rates at near zero levels.

Global uncertainty is rising. Yet, gold isn’t rallying.

Bitcoin, the new ‘gold,’ is.

Once, gold was the hedge against uncertainty, the asset where investors could park their cash in times of political and economic turmoil. Now Bitcoin is taking its place, as evidenced by the performance of the two assets in recent months.

Why does this keep getting repeated, though? Yes, gold had a 4-year correction to an insane bull market. That correction ended in 2015. Just look at a weekly (and especially monthly) chart. Gold formed a very solid higher low in late 2016. We're closing a beautiful, fat monthly green candle at new local highs.

It seems pretty clear from my TA that we are heading for a retest of the $1375 highs, and likely will establish a monthly uptrend once the highs are broken.

Gold has been rallying hard for 1.5 years...

Gold may as well be standing still in comparison to bitcoin.

Bitcoin is like gold, if it was just discovered so is spiking up tremendously as more and more people find out about it, but light as air, and digital so you can actually spend it anywhere and whenever you want, all while maintaining gold's supply cap store of value properties.

Ludwig Von

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Quote from: Kemarit on August 31, 2017, 02:41:42 PM

Again, if investors are getting out of Gold and stocks, this is due to the good ROI that bitcoin is giving them. Is has nothing to do with hedging it against a looming crisis like World War 3. Bitcoin will be totally useless in that kind of situation. Maybe they are just protecting their wealth or assets because bitcoin is also a store of value. For me, there are exodus because of their potential profit and bitcoin as safe haven for the preservation of wealth. Gold has been with us for so many years, but I doubt that gold holders will simply pull out of it. They just have a better alternative now - Bitcoin.

I moved 20% of my gold holdings (physical) to BTC and some others, just to eliminate the negative impacts of the manipulations in the gold market. All gains in crypto go back to gold. (And a little decadence). BTC is the near ideal partner for PMs.

exstasie

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Quote from: alyssa85 on August 31, 2017, 06:23:58 AM

It's strange you've started this topic, because Forbes has done an article today saying "Bitcoin is the new Gold":

https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosmourdoukoutas/2017/08/30/bitcoin-is-the-new-gold/#77e785013b36

Quote

North Korean dictator Kim Jong-un is launching missiles over Japan. China is trying to write its own navigation rules in South China Sea. Washington is in disarray. Global debt continues to pile up. And central banks continue to hold interest rates at near zero levels.

Global uncertainty is rising. Yet, gold isn’t rallying.

Bitcoin, the new ‘gold,’ is.

Once, gold was the hedge against uncertainty, the asset where investors could park their cash in times of political and economic turmoil. Now Bitcoin is taking its place, as evidenced by the performance of the two assets in recent months.

Why does this keep getting repeated, though? Yes, gold had a 4-year correction to an insane bull market. That correction ended in 2015. Just look at a weekly (and especially monthly) chart. Gold formed a very solid higher low in late 2016. We're closing a beautiful, fat monthly green candle at new local highs.

It seems pretty clear from my TA that we are heading for a retest of the $1375 highs, and likely will establish a monthly uptrend once the highs are broken.

Gold has been rallying hard for 1.5 years...

aso118

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Quote from: TravelMug on August 31, 2017, 02:59:35 PM

Quote from: TheQuin on August 30, 2017, 11:41:18 PM

I'm interested what evidence you have that "there is an "exodus" away from gold and stocks"? With gold at YTD highs back over $1300 and stock indices at all time highs, it would seem the opposite is true.

I've been an advocate of Bitcoin since 2013 and I truly believe that it has potential to go massively higher. However, it is ridiculous to suggest that it is a safe haven. It is a highly speculative investment that has the potential to give spectacular returns, but as always that comes with a high level of risk.

I think there are a lot of news articles now circulating that some huge gold investors are flocking into the doorstep of bitcoin. I can only speculate that maybe they can't take for granted now the price of bitcoin as compare to the price of gold that's why like any typical investors like in stocks, they would go on which one is the 'hottest' craze at the moment. So bitcoin eventhough risky, but the potential to earn a good profit is good, then they will easily go with it. But they will not completely abandoned gold but rather just go where the money is, and the current trend points to crypto currency, bitcoin in general.

Gold investors are not the typical hot-headed kind, who just go after the latest craze. They are usually the most sane types, who prefer to avoid risk in a frothing economy. If they shift to gold, it is big news.

TravelMug

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Quote from: TheQuin on August 30, 2017, 11:41:18 PM

I'm interested what evidence you have that "there is an "exodus" away from gold and stocks"? With gold at YTD highs back over $1300 and stock indices at all time highs, it would seem the opposite is true.

I've been an advocate of Bitcoin since 2013 and I truly believe that it has potential to go massively higher. However, it is ridiculous to suggest that it is a safe haven. It is a highly speculative investment that has the potential to give spectacular returns, but as always that comes with a high level of risk.

I think there are a lot of news articles now circulating that some huge gold investors are flocking into the doorstep of bitcoin. I can only speculate that maybe they can't take for granted now the price of bitcoin as compare to the price of gold that's why like any typical investors like in stocks, they would go on which one is the 'hottest' craze at the moment. So bitcoin eventhough risky, but the potential to earn a good profit is good, then they will easily go with it. But they will not completely abandoned gold but rather just go where the money is, and the current trend points to crypto currency, bitcoin in general.

Kemarit

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Again, if investors are getting out of Gold and stocks, this is due to the good ROI that bitcoin is giving them. Is has nothing to do with hedging it against a looming crisis like World War 3. Bitcoin will be totally useless in that kind of situation. Maybe they are just protecting their wealth or assets because bitcoin is also a store of value. For me, there are exodus because of their potential profit and bitcoin as safe haven for the preservation of wealth. Gold has been with us for so many years, but I doubt that gold holders will simply pull out of it. They just have a better alternative now - Bitcoin.

treather

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gold has the indisputable track record, having been a cherished store of value for thousands of years across human civilizations.

Pab

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Virtual gold is like virtual currency,it is hedge for dollar,dollar up gold down and vice verca,real gold supply is limited,and now gold supply is going down,there is not unlimited gold recources

milenium

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Quote from: iamTom123 on August 30, 2017, 11:16:51 PM

In the past many years, gold has not been a stellar performer and some are even calling gold earnings as flat and bland, so to speak. This year, it can now be told that gold seems to be lacking the necessary shine and luster. As investors are looking for other ways to get the most return of their money, many are shifting to cryptocurrencies...away from the traditional gold and the conventional stocks.

Added to this situation is the fact that some monetary policies espoused by many governments further shave the remaining trust some people on centralized financial system. This is making Bitcoin and other cryptos taking the role as the new safe haven...a title long held by the physical gold.

Right now, there is an "exodus" away from gold and stocks and the line is now on the doorsteps of Bitcoin. The thing is that Bitcoin is now the safe haven and at the same time this haven is also the heaven when it comes to earnings or ROI.

Thus, we now have Bitcoin as the new safe haven and the heaven of many returns! What a great twist of things...but this is not anymore surprising.

Do you think that investors are getting rid of gold? This is not true.
Gold was in demand 3000 years ago, 500 years ago, now also in demand, and in the future gold will be in demand

And as for the currency, I agree with you, sooner or later there will be a couple of world currencies, the others will disappear.

Lancusters

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Earn bitcoin and now it is difficult. I don't know other sites except bitcointalk which provide the opportunity to earn bitcoins. A lot of people who started their acquaintance with bitcoins here become active participants of the community. But this is still not enough for the rapid growth of popularity.

Vaskiy

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Right now more users have been getting into bitcoin understanding much about the goodness and the profit bitcoin provides. Same time there are people who started to earn good volume of bitcoin and hold it in the form of gold for the high security of the earning.

alyssa85

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It's strange you've started this topic, because Forbes has done an article today saying "Bitcoin is the new Gold":

https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosmourdoukoutas/2017/08/30/bitcoin-is-the-new-gold/#77e785013b36

Quote

North Korean dictator Kim Jong-un is launching missiles over Japan. China is trying to write its own navigation rules in South China Sea. Washington is in disarray. Global debt continues to pile up. And central banks continue to hold interest rates at near zero levels.

Global uncertainty is rising. Yet, gold isn’t rallying.

Bitcoin, the new ‘gold,’ is.

Once, gold was the hedge against uncertainty, the asset where investors could park their cash in times of political and economic turmoil. Now Bitcoin is taking its place, as evidenced by the performance of the two assets in recent months.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: exstasie on August 31, 2017, 02:03:43 AM

Quote from: iamTom123 on August 30, 2017, 11:16:51 PM

In the past many years, gold has not been a stellar performer and some are even calling gold earnings as flat and bland, so to speak. This year, it can now be told that gold seems to be lacking the necessary shine and luster. As investors are looking for other ways to get the most return of their money, many are shifting to cryptocurrencies...away from the traditional gold and the conventional stocks.

That's an odd take, considering that gold has been strongly uptrending for 1.5 years now. It's up 25% from the lows. As the oldest school traditional store of value, that's pretty damn volatile (and effective at hedging against fiat money).

Quote from: iamTom123 on August 30, 2017, 11:16:51 PM

Added to this situation is the fact that some monetary policies espoused by many governments further shave the remaining trust some people on centralized financial system. This is making Bitcoin and other cryptos taking the role as the new safe haven...a title long held by the physical gold.

I could see Bitcoin taking the role of the safe haven, but that doesn't mean it needs to (or will) replace gold. They are both decentralized monies and can be complementary to one another. There is no need for this perception of competition with gold. Although I'm sure some gold bugs are a bit annoyed at missing all the gains in BTC. Cheesy

Quote from: iamTom123 on August 30, 2017, 11:16:51 PM

Right now, there is an "exodus" away from gold and stocks

Proof?

I agree with everything replied to iamTom123. This is simply investors selling now and looking for other opportunities and better investments. Today some investors think it is Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.

But when it starts to "lose its luster" and gold start moving up again, I am sure we would all see the news saying "See? Gold was always the best store of value", and would again change their position the minute a bear market comes.

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I imagine most people who have gold are older people. Most of them aren't going to switch to bitcoin. But I'm sure some will, and "some" of $8 trillion could be a few hundred billion dollars worth of market cap over the next few years, which would help out bitcoin immensely. But the younger generation will absolutely buy bitcoin instead of gold.

As for stocks, I think there will be a small amount of money being switched from stocks to bitcoin, but again this small amount could add several hundred billion dollars to bitcoins market cap. Mostly I think it will be future stock money that is instead put into bitcoin. Once investment firms let people buy bitcoin through them, some people will start putting say 10% of their normal stock investment in bitcoin, for example. So less, an exodus than just people splitting money between stocks and bitcoin in the future.

Now if there is an actual exodus from gold and stocks of any decent degree, then bitcoin will shoot up into several hundred thousand dollars very quickly.

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Quote from: iamTom123 on August 30, 2017, 11:16:51 PM

In the past many years, gold has not been a stellar performer and some are even calling gold earnings as flat and bland, so to speak. This year, it can now be told that gold seems to be lacking the necessary shine and luster. As investors are looking for other ways to get the most return of their money, many are shifting to cryptocurrencies...away from the traditional gold and the conventional stocks.

Added to this situation is the fact that some monetary policies espoused by many governments further shave the remaining trust some people on centralized financial system. This is making Bitcoin and other cryptos taking the role as the new safe haven...a title long held by the physical gold.

Right now, there is an "exodus" away from gold and stocks and the line is now on the doorsteps of Bitcoin. The thing is that Bitcoin is now the safe haven and at the same time this haven is also the heaven when it comes to earnings or ROI.

Thus, we now have Bitcoin as the new safe haven and the heaven of many returns! What a great twist of things...but this is not anymore surprising.

I can't imagine an exodus from Gold, holders aren't going to the local gold dealer, getting cash, depositing cash into their account, then buying 0.25 Bitcoin per ounce sold, or if they are they are lunatics!
Gold is a good holder of value, I personally would rather be moving some of my now very expensive Bitcoin into gold in case this is a bubble that is going to pop.

Fungibility or lack thereof, means that people generally hold gold, rather than trade, or at least with physical gold anyway. I think people might be investing less new money into gold, so that they can buy Bitcoin, but that isn't an exodus.

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Quote from: omonuyak on August 31, 2017, 02:15:47 AM

I think very soon we would have solution to inflation and major financial issues the whole world has been going through since the inception of humanity has been. From batter trade to fiat money we are having now few people have been the one incharge of financial in the whole world. Bitcoin will serve as a solution to this elites control on our financial system to a freedom for every one to benefit from this great technology.

I'm still having some trouble seeing how we get from Point A to Point B, so humor me. Even if people start to increasingly hold their wealth in BTC, how does that free people from fiat money?

Bitcoin may provide some personal freedom and a hedge against fiat inflation, but it doesn't dismantle governments! You will still always need to pay your taxes in your national currency. And any debt is always payable in national currency; that's the power of fiat. Unless governments are literally taken out of the picture, you can't escape from fiat money.

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Quote from: omonuyak on August 31, 2017, 02:15:47 AM

I think very soon we would have solution to inflation and major financial issues the whole world has been going through since the inception of humanity has been. From batter trade to fiat money we are having now few people have been the one incharge of financial in the whole world. Bitcoin will serve as a solution to this elites control on our financial system to a freedom for every one to benefit from this great technology.

Well i would agree that btc could solve some problems regarding wealth of the elite. Money could be obtained by any society in any class. But i dont think it could solve financial issues around the world. The world is still in debt to 1 or 2 families and i doubt they did not even notice the growing economy of btc. Chances are that in time, they would become a highlight on how they are investing in btc.

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I think very soon we would have solution to inflation and major financial issues the whole world has been going through since the inception of humanity has been. From batter trade to fiat money we are having now few people have been the one incharge of financial in the whole world. Bitcoin will serve as a solution to this elites control on our financial system to a freedom for every one to benefit from this great technology.

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Quote from: iamTom123 on August 30, 2017, 11:16:51 PM

In the past many years, gold has not been a stellar performer and some are even calling gold earnings as flat and bland, so to speak. This year, it can now be told that gold seems to be lacking the necessary shine and luster. As investors are looking for other ways to get the most return of their money, many are shifting to cryptocurrencies...away from the traditional gold and the conventional stocks.

That's an odd take, considering that gold has been strongly uptrending for 1.5 years now. It's up 25% from the lows. As the oldest school traditional store of value, that's pretty damn volatile (and effective at hedging against fiat money).

Quote from: iamTom123 on August 30, 2017, 11:16:51 PM

Added to this situation is the fact that some monetary policies espoused by many governments further shave the remaining trust some people on centralized financial system. This is making Bitcoin and other cryptos taking the role as the new safe haven...a title long held by the physical gold.

I could see Bitcoin taking the role of the safe haven, but that doesn't mean it needs to (or will) replace gold. They are both decentralized monies and can be complementary to one another. There is no need for this perception of competition with gold. Although I'm sure some gold bugs are a bit annoyed at missing all the gains in BTC. Cheesy

Quote from: iamTom123 on August 30, 2017, 11:16:51 PM

Right now, there is an "exodus" away from gold and stocks

Proof?

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Quote from: davis196 on August 31, 2017, 01:02:41 AM

Quote from: TheQuin on August 30, 2017, 11:41:18 PM

I'm interested what evidence you have that "there is an "exodus" away from gold and stocks"? With gold at YTD highs back over $1300 and stock indices at all time highs, it would seem the opposite is true.

I've been an advocate of Bitcoin since 2013 and I truly believe that it has potential to go massively higher. However, it is ridiculous to suggest that it is a safe haven. It is a highly speculative investment that has the potential to give spectacular returns, but as always that comes with a high level of risk.

There might be some risk,but it`s decreasing more and more.I think that bitcoin is more stable and secure than before and not so speculative like some altcoins.Anyway,gold and stocks will always be here and there`s no need to find an exodus from them.I don`t think that gold and stocks are actually a part from the centralized financial system,because the bankers can`t control gold supply and the stocks markets.
They are trying to manipulate some stocks ,but they aren`t always successfull.

There is risk in everything, it's a relative term. I agree that Bitcoin is more stable and less of a risk than previously, I was just arguing the term 'safe haven'. I would definitely still put it in a high-risk category.

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Quote from: TheQuin on August 30, 2017, 11:41:18 PM

I'm interested what evidence you have that "there is an "exodus" away from gold and stocks"? With gold at YTD highs back over $1300 and stock indices at all time highs, it would seem the opposite is true.

I've been an advocate of Bitcoin since 2013 and I truly believe that it has potential to go massively higher. However, it is ridiculous to suggest that it is a safe haven. It is a highly speculative investment that has the potential to give spectacular returns, but as always that comes with a high level of risk.

There might be some risk,but it`s decreasing more and more.I think that bitcoin is more stable and secure than before and not so speculative like some altcoins.Anyway,gold and stocks will always be here and there`s no need to find an exodus from them.I don`t think that gold and stocks are actually a part from the centralized financial system,because the bankers can`t control gold supply and the stocks markets.
They are trying to manipulate some stocks ,but they aren`t always successfull.

TheQuin

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I'm interested what evidence you have that "there is an "exodus" away from gold and stocks"? With gold at YTD highs back over $1300 and stock indices at all time highs, it would seem the opposite is true.

I've been an advocate of Bitcoin since 2013 and I truly believe that it has potential to go massively higher. However, it is ridiculous to suggest that it is a safe haven. It is a highly speculative investment that has the potential to give spectacular returns, but as always that comes with a high level of risk.

iamTom123

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In the past many years, gold has not been a stellar performer and some are even calling gold earnings as flat and bland, so to speak. This year, it can now be told that gold seems to be lacking the necessary shine and luster. As investors are looking for other ways to get the most return of their money, many are shifting to cryptocurrencies...away from the traditional gold and the conventional stocks.

Added to this situation is the fact that some monetary policies espoused by many governments further shave the remaining trust some people on centralized financial system. This is making Bitcoin and other cryptos taking the role as the new safe haven...a title long held by the physical gold.

Right now, there is an "exodus" away from gold and stocks and the line is now on the doorsteps of Bitcoin. The thing is that Bitcoin is now the safe haven and at the same time this haven is also the heaven when it comes to earnings or ROI.

Thus, we now have Bitcoin as the new safe haven and the heaven of many returns! What a great twist of things...but this is not anymore surprising.

Topic: From Gold & Stocks to Bitcoin: An Exodus? (Read 1173 times)