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Topic: FTX drama and it’s long term consequences: Bitcoin is a confidence Game. (Read 672 times)

sr. member
Activity: 1008
Merit: 262
Vave.com - Crypto Casino
Yes. learn from the experience that is happening right now Why did FTX go bankrupt.

In my view, this has a big message for other Exchange Platforms to have a big responsibility to really protect Customer's Money so that it is not corrupted. everything concerns the electability of an Exchange Platform that has been formed from childhood until it already has a name.
Anyone still surprised? This is why we need to be very careful the way we patronize many of these exchanges because who knows when they might go bankrupt or crash since this does not just started today. The case of FTX was very much predictable but some investors Heard about it never took it seriously then. I hope Sam Bankman will be brought to book since the case is already in court.


https://twitter.com/UtilityTheory/status/1600975339400093696?t=i_B0us2miR9YB-KCNTbvig&s=19

It is very obvious that there are many things hidden from us that we don't know and I hope to see them.

https://twitter.com/WhiteOakFX/status/1600956744032612353?t=uezpH16w9kHyrozG_iHeCQ&s=19
legendary
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Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
    • Regulators: The long tide of these events will be a flurry of new regulations to ban, regulate, oversee the whole crypto industry. I don’t know if they will be successful, the risk of killing a nascent industry is high, but i guess they now know they need to understand the industry better. And maybe this is good for all of us.  

    Today on the FT an analysis retiming with that consideration of mine here above:

    Time for a reset of the crypto opportunity

    Quite an interesting article, of course written by a traditional banker, with traditional finance background and focus and the confidence in traditional financial system in mind:


    Quote

       Please use the sharing tools found via the share button at the top or side of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email [email protected] to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour.
       https://www.ft.com/content/5568bd6b-99df-4c8b-91bc-e0b49011da80

       A comprehensive regulatory framework is needed, but much of the underpinning already exists and can be extended from the regulation of traditional assets.

    There is a path to be found. We should embrace digital asset innovation, and align it to established rules and measured regulatory principles in order to protect customers and promote resiliency. In so doing, we also protect the most precious asset of all — confidence in our financial system.

    member
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    If you really are an investor then you need to be constantly adapting and adjusting to new information as it becomes available.

    Correct.
    What was I trying to tell you is that investors must now realise where those incredible APR came from: nowhere. So this new breed of investors must now realise that every yield is a counterpart of a risk. If they see the yield but don't see the risks, then they are better to re-evaluate the investment.



    Yes. learn from the experience that is happening right now Why did FTX go bankrupt.

    In my view, this has a big message for other Exchange Platforms to have a big responsibility to really protect Customer's Money so that it is not corrupted. everything concerns the electability of an Exchange Platform that has been formed from childhood until it already has a name.
    legendary
    Activity: 2268
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    Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
    If you really are an investor then you need to be constantly adapting and adjusting to new information as it becomes available.

    Correct.
    What was I trying to tell you is that investors must now realise where those incredible APR came from: nowhere. So this new breed of investors must now realise that every yield is a counterpart of a risk. If they see the yield but don't see the risks, then they are better to re-evaluate the investment.

    legendary
    Activity: 2688
    Merit: 1192
    Very good Newsletter From The Pomp.

    I think Pomp here had a point.

    FTX debacle, which came too close to the LUNA/UST drama, is a harsh call on the whole system.

    Something everyone reading this forum should already know. There is Bitcoin, then there is crypto.
    But in the crypto  Far West it was difficult for everyone to keep the bar to straight , for everyone.

    • Users Yet once again. “Not your keys, not your coins”. How many times do you have to be reminded doing a good risk assessment, when deciding who is handling your private keys
      Please note the at I am not against Bitcoin custodians per se, I am against poorly chosen custodians”, whose category is often identical to “exchanges”

    • Investors: lured into dubious projects  following even more dubious APY or “risk free yield”.  Check this thread to clarify what happen when you think you are getting a risk free yield. Hopefully they now understood where the real value is, and where allocate their assets.

    • Exchanges: instead of focusing on crystal clear operations, regulations and service for clients, setting up convoluted tokenomics schemes, in the best hypothesis out of levity on unintended consequences, but often in dire fraud Hopefully this will lead to a refocusing on that matter the most for their clients (the users, not the governments -Check this thread). Many exchanges have already said are going to significantly improving their operations and transparency adding proof of reserves, as a first step

    • Developers: instead of focusing on the development of the intellectually rewarding projects (namely: Bitcoin and Bitcoin related Technologies) , they indulged financially regarding projects. Hopefully many dubious project in this sphere will see a drain in funding over the coming months

    • Regulators: The long tide of these events will be a flurry of new regulations to ban, regulate, oversee the whole crypto industry. I don’t know if they will be successful, the risk of killing a nascent industry is high, but i guess they now know they need to understand the industry better. And maybe this is good for all of us.  

    If you really are an investor then you need to be constantly adapting and adjusting to new information as it becomes available. It doesn't matter if you're invested in gold, wine, crypto or stocks - sometimes you just have to take a step back an re-evaluate everything that attracted you to it, then identify if anything has changed. There will be a small crowd of people who genuinely put little thought into their buying and just saw "line is going up on the chart, I want to jump in". Those people did no research other than feeling greedy and thinking they had an easy way to make money. Others have bought with conviction, used only small amounts of spare funds and are happy to hold wherever the price goes. That type should hopefully secure their crypto in off exchange wallets.
    hero member
    Activity: 2478
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    SecureShift.io | Crypto-Exchange
    "How many times do you have to be reminded doing a good risk assessment," I think as many times as it takes, it appears many people don't take into account the risk assessment of their investment because if they do - fewer people will have funds in a centralized exchange.
    Most of these exchanges are reckless and users help them by leaving their funds in the exchange until investors began to understand the consequences of their actions this type of situation will keep happening.
    As long as you hold your btc in your personal wallet, you will be far from all these exchange shenanigans.
     
    sr. member
    Activity: 2296
    Merit: 348

    I think the time has come to put “bitcoin as magic internet money” behind us, build proper cryptographic security apart from fiat currency, improve consensus protocols so we can scale to handle VISA and MasterCard transaction volumes. increasing the resilience of the network for adoption as most people are not sophisticated enough for escrow and multisig and making derivatives easier as contracts can be automatically tied to a reliable BTC/USD price, which never will in the future.
    Nonsense.

    The Bitcoin network has been unaffected in al this drama.
    Tik tok, another block

    Not a single Bitcoin network instance has been hacked. No need to change anything in the protocol or in the Bitcoin implementation.

    All the hacking has been done on the Exchange systems that are well outside the Bitcoin Network.
    Closest thing it went down it is some wrapped Bitcoin, but the fault is in the “wrap” part, not in the Bitcoin part.
    That is what people say when bitcoin is decentralized and for some reason many do not understand it. A lot of people go "well it's centralized when Elon says something it goes up or down!" or they say "if it's decentralized then how come exchanges have billions of it!" or something like that.

    They mistake the decentralization of the bitcoin itself, with the centralization possibility of the price, and yes the price can't be decentralized, but the coin itself has always been like that, and safe and secure and not a single problem has ever occurred in its history ever. That should be proper reason to buy as many as you can, and store it in a safe place and you should be safe from all this drama.
    member
    Activity: 1540
    Merit: 22
    What caused the FTX drama? Everyone will have their own opinion but I don't think anyone could come close to the truth. The consequences remain to be seen, namely the value is subjective and determined by the market. Will there be a serious attack on Bitcoin? I highly doubt it. What is certain is that trust in Bitcoin and by implication trust in cryptocurrencies has taken a huge hit at the moment.
    hero member
    Activity: 2338
    Merit: 757
    Bitcoin is a safe haven. It was designed to be. All the recent facts prove it, including the opinions of experts.
    But it is worth remembering that there are many similar experiences that have proven their effectiveness over the years. It may not have had enough updates due to the lack of demand for its use compared to Bitcoin, but many of them have proven to be highly efficient. Currencies such as Monero and Green have proven their effectiveness and ability to provide a good amount of security and decentralization, comparable to Bitcoin, or perhaps in many cases exceeding it.
    full member
    Activity: 1092
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    Developers: instead of focusing on the development of the intellectually rewarding projects (namely: Bitcoin and Bitcoin related Technologies) , they indulged financially regarding projects. Hopefully many dubious project in this sphere will see a drain in funding over the coming months

    They are the craziest one! If you see the developments after 2015-16 then we can see how there is sudden up surge in the ICO’s for versatile ideas and how millions of dollars were being raised during the pre sales and post sales.

    The role of Developers in this? Well they knew that blockchain is comparatively new and it’s applications are vast subject. They started to put finger on everything they saw and converted them into blockchain project. They however never kept the ideas for long, just coded the basics, few algorithms which would work for initia processes and boom everyone started to think that it’s something unique and it’s going to be astounding project in the future.

    However the end of the story? Failed roadmaps, abandoned projects and zero volume in the market.

    Developers did not stop there, they started one project after another and still looting the market in the name of advancements, blockchain usage and futuristic agendas. All in vain.
    legendary
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    Enterapp Pre-Sale Live - bit.ly/3UrMCWI
    Many exchanges have already said are going to significantly improving their operations and transparency adding proof of reserves, as a first step

    I'm not convinced this goes far enough.  Proof of reserves means little without proof of liabilities.  If you don't know what these people are doing with the funds they hold, what their financial obligations and debts are, etc, then there's no guarantee those funds are secure.

    Proof of reserves is a first step.
    This is a technically possible step that can be done with little development in exchange infrastructure. With publicity auditable results and also reproducible anywhere.
    What you are requesting is an accounting auditing. Something is certainly possible and actually done in most of western "regulated" countries.

    Of course there's not universal recipe for this, but small incremental steps in the right direction.

    My concern is that some exchanges are going to claim "We don't need an independent audit, we have cryptographic proof of reserves".  If that starts to occur, then it's very much a step in the wrong direction.  I really hope I'm wrong on this, but I can see it happening. 

    Call me suspicious, but I'm convinced it's just another way to obfuscate illicit activities behind the pretense of legitimacy.  Exchanges seem way too eager to implement this and I think we should all be pausing to wonder why that might be.
    Yep the possibility of that scenario is highly probable. In the near future, People will demand more information from the exchanges knowing that there will be a certain distrust on exchanges given on what is happening currently and also in the future. Binance is one of the top exchanges right now and they are one of the first who volunteer to show their proof of reserves and I believe to likely to agree on an independent audit given that they have a reputation to hold on. Refusing to make a independent audit for them is a really bad move because it can instantly make speculations against them and it would be on their bad side. Sooner or later, I hope that proof of reserves will be standard and auditing it should be part of it.
    legendary
    Activity: 3948
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    Leave no FUD unchallenged
    Many exchanges have already said are going to significantly improving their operations and transparency adding proof of reserves, as a first step

    I'm not convinced this goes far enough.  Proof of reserves means little without proof of liabilities.  If you don't know what these people are doing with the funds they hold, what their financial obligations and debts are, etc, then there's no guarantee those funds are secure.

    Proof of reserves is a first step.
    This is a technically possible step that can be done with little development in exchange infrastructure. With publicity auditable results and also reproducible anywhere.
    What you are requesting is an accounting auditing. Something is certainly possible and actually done in most of western "regulated" countries.

    Of course there's not universal recipe for this, but small incremental steps in the right direction.

    My concern is that some exchanges are going to claim "We don't need an independent audit, we have cryptographic proof of reserves".  If that starts to occur, then it's very much a step in the wrong direction.  I really hope I'm wrong on this, but I can see it happening. 

    Call me suspicious, but I'm convinced it's just another way to obfuscate illicit activities behind the pretense of legitimacy.  Exchanges seem way too eager to implement this and I think we should all be pausing to wonder why that might be.
    legendary
    Activity: 2268
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    Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
    [
    It became a drame simply because people romantacize it and allowed it to manifest. Just because an exchanger is down, they concluded that this industry would as well fall. Cryptocurrencies in the first place are separated from exchanges. It is just that exchanges became the bridge between cryptocurrencies and fiat currency; that's the only link. This simply happens because people invest into something in which they lack knowledge about; tend to panic whenever there's a problem but never tried understanding why such thing occured. If investors nowadays in this industry are knowledgeable enough of problematic tendencies, there is even a chance for the market price to not be affected simply because people won't care and sell out of panic.

    I think it is more than that.
    ASI. Said in the OP, I am afraid we will now have a “before FTX” and an “after FTX”. This is because of the sheer size of this exchange and above all for the huge amount of money it poured in the industry.

    A lot of actors will have to adjust their expectation regarding the way they approach to crypto’s.
    And when I say crypto, I do include Bitcoin, as per the Pompliano letter in the OP.

    My feeling is that the long ripple of these events will be long felt in the industry.
    legendary
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    Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

    I think the time has come to put “bitcoin as magic internet money” behind us, build proper cryptographic security apart from fiat currency, improve consensus protocols so we can scale to handle VISA and MasterCard transaction volumes. increasing the resilience of the network for adoption as most people are not sophisticated enough for escrow and multisig and making derivatives easier as contracts can be automatically tied to a reliable BTC/USD price, which never will in the future.

    Nonsense.

    The Bitcoin network has been unaffected in al this drama.
    Tik tok, another block

    Not a single Bitcoin network instance has been hacked. No need to change anything in the protocol or in the Bitcoin implementation.

    All the hacking has been done on the Exchange systems that are well outside the Bitcoin Network.
    Closest thing it went down it is some wrapped Bitcoin, but the fault is in the “wrap” part, not in the Bitcoin part.


    It became a drama simply because people romantacize it and allowed it to manifest. Just because an exchanger is down, they concluded that this industry would as well fall. Cryptocurrencies in the first place are separated from exchanges. It is just that exchanges became the bridge between cryptocurrencies and fiat currency; that's the only link. This simply happens because people invest into something in which they lack knowledge about; tend to panic whenever there's a problem but never tried understanding why such thing occured. If investors nowadays in this industry are knowledgeable enough of problematic tendencies, there is even a chance for the market price to not be affected simply because people won't care and sell out of panic.
    sr. member
    Activity: 2296
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    This is yet again another moment to go back to basics. We have been doing this a number of times. But since we're always failing to learn lessons, history is bound to repeat and we're once again forced to be reminded of the most fundamental principles of nothing else but Bitcoin.
    Yep, and I hate to say it but there's no progress in financial intelligence because each generation has to learn the hard way on its own.  That's why booms and busts keep happening every 10-20 years, over and over again.

    Some of the Youtube videos I've been watching are by people in their 20s, and they're talking about things that seem really obvious to me but are apparently new to them.  I'm not blaming any of this crap on the younger generation by any means, but SBF and other big time crypto scammers are all young and obviously ignorant, no matter how wise they've been previously portrayed in the media.

    Everything in trading, investment, and finance is a "confidence game".  It always has been, going back to the days of JP Morgan and well beyond that.  Anyone who uses a centralized exchange has to have some sort of confidence in it, regardless of how little.  Anyone who trades with anyone else has to have confidence in their counterparty.  No matter how trustless we'd like things to be, if we're buying or selling bitcoin we've got to have a smidgen of trust somewhere.

    This whole thing is ugly to the tenth power.
    I do not blame them neither, for example when I was 15 years old, I had absolutely no idea how the world works, and when I was 25 I just barely started to understood, and not even the whole thing, just the basic concept and at 35 I started to understand how it all works but have no idea how to navigate it, yes it's unfair and yes the wealthy have a big advantage, but what could I do to overcome that? I have no idea, I just know the problem and I lack the solution and I feel like crypto could be it.

    Considering all of this, the generation Z doesn't feel too far behind, in fact a lot of them know much more than I did back that age, and some of them even know better than I do now, so I feel like it’s just a cycle.
    hero member
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    I think the time has come to put “bitcoin as magic internet money” behind us, build proper cryptographic security apart from fiat currency, improve consensus protocols so we can scale to handle VISA and MasterCard transaction volumes. increasing the resilience of the network for adoption as most people are not sophisticated enough for escrow and multisig and making derivatives easier as contracts can be automatically tied to a reliable BTC/USD price, which never will in the future.

    Nonsense.

    The Bitcoin network has been unaffected in al this drama.
    Tik tok, another block

    Not a single Bitcoin network instance has been hacked. No need to change anything in the protocol or in the Bitcoin implementation.

    All the hacking has been done on the Exchange systems that are well outside the Bitcoin Network.
    Closest thing it went down it is some wrapped Bitcoin, but the fault is in the “wrap” part, not in the Bitcoin part.



    This is true, I recently watch Michael Saylor interview in regards with the recent FTX drama. I kinda feel that he is really all this time that Bitcoin is indeed the solution on everything because it is the only currency that is completely decentralized and proven for more than a decade.

    This is Saylor statement on his tweet for interview: Satoshi had a beautiful dream of a world where we don’t need to trust banks and store our life’s savings in collapsing fiat currencies. #Bitcoin means you don’t need to trust the FTXs of the world.

    https://twitter.com/saylor/status/1592609346277363713?s=20&t=QWeeCsMmiDLyb1zJ0oXJwQ
    legendary
    Activity: 2268
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    Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23

    I think the time has come to put “bitcoin as magic internet money” behind us, build proper cryptographic security apart from fiat currency, improve consensus protocols so we can scale to handle VISA and MasterCard transaction volumes. increasing the resilience of the network for adoption as most people are not sophisticated enough for escrow and multisig and making derivatives easier as contracts can be automatically tied to a reliable BTC/USD price, which never will in the future.

    Nonsense.

    The Bitcoin network has been unaffected in al this drama.
    Tik tok, another block

    Not a single Bitcoin network instance has been hacked. No need to change anything in the protocol or in the Bitcoin implementation.

    All the hacking has been done on the Exchange systems that are well outside the Bitcoin Network.
    Closest thing it went down it is some wrapped Bitcoin, but the fault is in the “wrap” part, not in the Bitcoin part.

    sr. member
    Activity: 1610
    Merit: 294
    www.licx.io
    My opinion Probably the biggest thing that came out of this drama is that the FTX hackers are getting a different view of bitcoin.

    I think the time has come to put “bitcoin as magic internet money” behind us, build proper cryptographic security apart from fiat currency, improve consensus protocols so we can scale to handle VISA and MasterCard transaction volumes. increasing the resilience of the network for adoption as most people are not sophisticated enough for escrow and multisig and making derivatives easier as contracts can be automatically tied to a reliable BTC/USD price, which never will in the future.
    legendary
    Activity: 2576
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    When everything started, it wasn't about centralized exchanges, lending platforms, investment opportunities, security tokens, lending, and so on and so forth. It was purely about freedom, ownership, peer to peer, transparency, censorship resistance, and so on.

    I doubt that we'll ever get away from centralized exchanges. Its becoming part of the crypto ecosystem already wether we like it or not and yeah we stranded far away from original intention of bitcoin being created but its already part of it for now. Most people that get into crypto nowadays dont even know the term of " not your keys, not your coins" anymore

    It's just so unfortunate that instead of providing an alternative to the banks and the fiat system, crypto has ended up exactly mimicking the banks and the fiat system. Not only are they centralized, they also demand that personal information be provided. They freeze funds when they are suspicious. They issue nothing but numbers, meaning debts, while the real funds are used and risked somewhere else. They also issue their own coins out of thin air. But the worst part is that people are embracing it.

    I can only hope that as soon as the dust settles down, there will be a significant change of behavior in the community, although I have doubts.

    The effect is pretty decent though for the community. Abit off topic but imagine what would happen if it was Binance  Roll Eyes

    If Binance were to crash a week after FTX, there will probably still be a lot of wailing because of lost funds. If Coinbase were to follow a week thereafter, the same thing happens. Well, I guess this is just how we are.
    legendary
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    Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
    Someone would call it a "positive consequence" of this story?

    FTX's Fall Will Lift the Next Generation of Bitcoin Maximalists

    Quote
    The new generation of ardent bitcoin maximalists born from FTX’s ashes will, in time, hold their bitcoin keys on their own wallets (perhaps a Trezor or Ledger) and they will not be susceptible to Ponzi schemes propped up by the reputation of whoever the next paper billionaire with his/her own coin.

    I have serious doubt about this, as this category of human beings is always present when there's incentives to personal advantage. At least this time everyone has the rules (or the lack of) well clear in mind.
    legendary
    Activity: 4410
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    the first deceit of "finance"

    one thing i keep seeing pop up is how people keep confusing VALUE with VALUATIONS

    for instance

    FTX had a valuation of ~$32billion.. but. FTX never had ~32billion of cash/assets

    the ~32billion valuation was made up by FTX creating shares. and only selling a small percentage of those shares at a price where that price was then used as a multiplier against all combined shares to give a full valuation amount

    EG
    imagine it was 32billion shares it created but only sold 1 share for $1
    instantly where by FTX only ever received just $1 created his company valuation of 32billions shares to be worth $32billion

    you see it on TV shows like sharktank /dragons den
    where they pitch their business at an ask of: $£100k for 5%

    they are only asking for £$100k of actual cash to change hands.. but the judges/investors then scream
    "are you really valuing your business at $£2million"

    this is the first deceit of "finance"
    legendary
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    Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23

    Many exchanges have already said are going to significantly improving their operations and transparency adding proof of reserves, as a first step

    I'm not convinced this goes far enough.  Proof of reserves means little without proof of liabilities.  If you don't know what these people are doing with the funds they hold, what their financial obligations and debts are, etc, then there's no guarantee those funds are secure.

    Proof of reserves is a first step.
    This is a technically possible step that can be done with little development in exchange infrastructure. With publicity auditable results and also reproducible anywhere.
    What you are requesting is an accounting auditing. Something is certainly possible and actually done in most of western "regulated" countries.

    Of course there's not universal recipe for this, but small incremental steps in the right direction.
    legendary
    Activity: 2828
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    https://news.bitcoin.com/kevin-oleary-ftx-collapse-is-a-turning-point-for-the-industry-crypto-bottom-is-in/

    Kevin O'Leary, Canadian VC/investor, FTX poster boy, is now calling on the U.S. to regulate crypto industry after his investment into FTX goes up in smoke.

    I figured it was only a matter of time for industry regulations were amongst the horizon -- they'll be using a corrupt exchange as an excuse to target bitcoin as if FTX was any different than Lehman Brothers when it collapsed. And ironically, the government interference is what originally incentivized Lehman Brothers to have their mortgage backed securities inflate well beyond what they could handle.
    legendary
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    Crypto Swap Exchange
    What we really need is for somebody to get Bernie Madoffed (yes it's a term now) for a fraud like this and then die in prison. Or at least get a prison term that means they will eventually die there.
    Not saying it will fix the problem, people will always want to get some of the 'free money' and there will always be someone there to swindle them. But, without any fear of punishment there is no reason to stop.

    Just my view. But, like the Onion headline ChiBitCTy posted, so long as we expect to get scammed and the people scamming us to get away with it, it's going to keep happening.

    -Dave
    legendary
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    Rollbit.com | #1 Solana Casino
    Why he can't help FTX then? FTX is a strong centralized exchanges since many people said it's a Binance killer, but when FTX is in crisis of liquidation, Binance didn't do anything and just said they're already tried their best. This mean CZ initiative is just a marketing, he will help a small exchange only and he will not help a big exchange that can beat Binance.
    Regarding the cancellation of Binance's acquisition of FTX, CZ explained when attending the B22 Summit 2022 in Bali and was asked about the collapse of FTX and why it didn't help him. Nothing can protect an industry that is played by bad actors, including the crypto industry that is led by bad actors. good at lying.

    "To be honest if a man is really good at lying, and he's really good at pretending to be what he's not. The law can't prevent that. But the law can help to reduce [emerging bad actors]," said CZ,

    Another reason is that FTX misappropriated customer funds and mishandled it, which is why Binance did not want to acquire FTX.



    Actually Binance is encourage their users to leave their coins on Binance, it's what SAFU actually mean. Everyone shouldn't get baited by Binance marketing strategy and must leave coins on hardware wallet.
    About Binance Marketing, it is Binance's right, we can only decide whether to use it or not. The most recommended is indeed storage in a hardware wallet. But there's nothing wrong with SAFU funds, they are a safe choice for customer assets.
    legendary
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    Leave no FUD unchallenged
    and for user protection, Binance has announced that its SAFU Fund ( Secure Asset Fund for User ) is already worth $1 billion. Binance made a promise to the users as well as the ecosystem of wider crypto to maintain more adequate levels and will be built. In addition to protecting the interests of users, the SAFU definition includes three important components regarding mass adoption: trust, integrity, and transparency
    Going forward, SAFU will continue to be a core part of our responsibility to the ecosystem, and we will continue to evolve to adapt to market conditions.

    So the solution to the problem of a big pile of money that a custodian could run off with is another big pile of money that a custodian could run off with?  Tell us another one.  Roll Eyes

    Seriously, have people learned nothing?



    Many exchanges have already said are going to significantly improving their operations and transparency adding proof of reserves, as a first step

    I'm not convinced this goes far enough.  Proof of reserves means little without proof of liabilities.  If you don't know what these people are doing with the funds they hold, what their financial obligations and debts are, etc, then there's no guarantee those funds are secure.
    legendary
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    Alameda Research Portfolio: coins with the worst weekly performance!
    $HXRO, $FTT, $SLRS, $SRM, $MAPS, $LIKE, $SOL



    Yes and this is how their assets looked like pretty much. Basically a bunch of coins that they minted and they pretty much set the prices. And this is where they got $3B worth of illiquid digital assets.

    Coins like $SRM have such little bids that there is no way they would get the entire amount they claimed on their bankruptcy filings. Same with the other coins. And those investments that they did in companies are also useless because most of those will go bankrupt before anyone sees any money.
    hero member
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    This is a great idea to mitigate the negative impact of Drama FTX furthermore, Binance is establishing an industry recovery fund that will help projects that are strong but in the crisis of liquidation.
    Why he can't help FTX then? FTX is a strong centralized exchanges since many people said it's a Binance killer, but when FTX is in crisis of liquidation, Binance didn't do anything and just said they're already tried their best. This mean CZ initiative is just a marketing, he will help a small exchange only and he will not help a big exchange that can beat Binance.

    Quote
    Going forward, SAFU will continue to be a core part of our responsibility to the ecosystem, and we will continue to evolve to adapt to market conditions.
    Actually Binance is encourage their users to leave their coins on Binance, it's what SAFU actually mean. Everyone shouldn't get baited by Binance marketing strategy and must leave coins on hardware wallet.
    newbie
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    Alameda Research Portfolio: coins with the worst weekly performance!
    $HXRO, $FTT, $SLRS, $SRM, $MAPS, $LIKE, $SOL

    https://altfins.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/alameda-research-portfolio.png
    legendary
    Activity: 2716
    Merit: 1855
    Rollbit.com | #1 Solana Casino
    -snip-
    This is a great idea to mitigate the negative impact of Drama FTX furthermore, Binance is establishing an industry recovery fund that will help projects that are strong but in the crisis of liquidation.

    Even Justin, as the founder of Tron, fully supports Binance's initiative to set up the recovery fund.

    CZ some time ago also visited Indonesia at the B20 Summit 2022 event, CZ said he wanted the industry, as well as regulators, to be responsible for cleaning up their actions.

    “We will try to gather other industry players together to form an industry association globally, and try to address some common standards in business,” said CZ, citing recent crypto market events as the reason for the initiative. "as soon as possible.".


    and for user protection, Binance has announced that its SAFU Fund ( Secure Asset Fund for User ) is already worth $1 billion. Binance made a promise to the users as well as the ecosystem of wider crypto to maintain more adequate levels and will be built. In addition to protecting the interests of users, the SAFU definition includes three important components regarding mass adoption: trust, integrity, and transparency
    Going forward, SAFU will continue to be a core part of our responsibility to the ecosystem, and we will continue to evolve to adapt to market conditions.
    legendary
    Activity: 3528
    Merit: 7005
    Top Crypto Casino
    This is yet again another moment to go back to basics. We have been doing this a number of times. But since we're always failing to learn lessons, history is bound to repeat and we're once again forced to be reminded of the most fundamental principles of nothing else but Bitcoin.
    Yep, and I hate to say it but there's no progress in financial intelligence because each generation has to learn the hard way on its own.  That's why booms and busts keep happening every 10-20 years, over and over again.

    Some of the Youtube videos I've been watching are by people in their 20s, and they're talking about things that seem really obvious to me but are apparently new to them.  I'm not blaming any of this crap on the younger generation by any means, but SBF and other big time crypto scammers are all young and obviously ignorant, no matter how wise they've been previously portrayed in the media.

    Everything in trading, investment, and finance is a "confidence game".  It always has been, going back to the days of JP Morgan and well beyond that.  Anyone who uses a centralized exchange has to have some sort of confidence in it, regardless of how little.  Anyone who trades with anyone else has to have confidence in their counterparty.  No matter how trustless we'd like things to be, if we're buying or selling bitcoin we've got to have a smidgen of trust somewhere.

    This whole thing is ugly to the tenth power.
    legendary
    Activity: 2268
    Merit: 16328
    Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23

    [/li][/list]
    <...>
    • Exchanges: instead of focusing on crystal clear operations, regulations and service for clients, setting up convoluted tokenomics schemes, in the best hypothesis out of levity on unintended consequences, but often in dire fraud Hopefully this will lead to a refocusing on that matter the most for their clients
    CZ came out with an idea of the crypto equivalent of the FDIC deposit insurance coverage to protect the deposits of the users and of the "valuable projects", whatever it means.
    It's a start, it's a free market solution, not imposed by regulators, but from the market itself.
    It might be marketing, but rest assured also de FDIC insurance is marketing, as it is not capable of savaging anything during a global deposit run.

    Binance Starts Recovery Fund for Crypto Projects Facing Liquidity Crisis

    Quote

    legendary
    Activity: 2282
    Merit: 3014
    The problem here is that there is absolutely zero accountability. Sam Bankman-Fried stole about $10 billion of customer funds and then diverted them to his own trading firm. When all that money lost as a result of his own bad judgement, he just came up with an apology. He said, "I am sorry" and that is it. All the funds are gone and the customers are left high and dry. And the joke here is that Sam Bankman-Fried will not face imprisonment even for a day. He was one of the top donors for the Democrat party, and the powerful members of that party will make sure that he remains protected from arrest.

    This sounds like a lot of conjecture. There’s no final resolution yet to this story and there’s a lot yet left to be done. I’m not saying he will serve the time he deserves in a prison cell, but I think there’s still plenty of opportunity for him to be charged, arrested and tried.

    However there is some silver lining to this story, it sure has taught people a very valuable lesson, one that hasn’t been learned by so many that should have via the Mt Gox days.

    legendary
    Activity: 3346
    Merit: 1352
    Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
    The problem here is that there is absolutely zero accountability. Sam Bankman-Fried stole about $10 billion of customer funds and then diverted them to his own trading firm. When all that money lost as a result of his own bad judgement, he just came up with an apology. He said, "I am sorry" and that is it. All the funds are gone and the customers are left high and dry. And the joke here is that Sam Bankman-Fried will not face imprisonment even for a day. He was one of the top donors for the Democrat party, and the powerful members of that party will make sure that he remains protected from arrest.
    legendary
    Activity: 2562
    Merit: 1414
    When everything started, it wasn't about centralized exchanges, lending platforms, investment opportunities, security tokens, lending, and so on and so forth. It was purely about freedom, ownership, peer to peer, transparency, censorship resistance, and so on.

    I doubt that we'll ever get away from centralized exchanges. Its becoming part of the crypto ecosystem already wether we like it or not and yeah we stranded far away from original intention of bitcoin being created but its already part of it for now. Most people that get into crypto nowadays dont even know the term of " not your keys, not your coins" anymore

    I can only hope that as soon as the dust settles down, there will be a significant change of behavior in the community, although I have doubts.

    The effect is pretty decent though for the community. Abit off topic but imagine what would happen if it was Binance  Roll Eyes
    legendary
    Activity: 3654
    Merit: 1165
    www.Crypto.Games: Multiple coins, multiple games
    I do agree that as long as there is confidence to any part of crypto then there would be a good amount of price increase, and when there isn't enough trust, to either the security or safety or the price or anything, then it doesn't do well at all.

    That’s not something uncommon in the market, when we are talking about let’s say stock market, we would definitely not have anything major there neither, if people lose all their trust and hope about Apple or Amazon, they would definitely not invest into that or sell too. This is why I believe that trust and confidence and even "liking" something all matters even though it is mostly about numbers and data.
    hero member
    Activity: 2954
    Merit: 796

    Sharing is caring so here’s the list above for all the project connected and exposed to SBF and FTX that needs to be watch out on coming weeks for caution. I’m sure that the ripple effect will be experienced in long term because the main funds source is already busted. As Elon already stated recently, Bitcoin will survived but long crypto winter is inevitable which means worst is still not come.


    *Photo is not mine. CTTO

    sr. member
    Activity: 770
    Merit: 266
    Payment Gateway Allows Recurring Payments
    At least now the people who keep their assets on the exchange have been forcefully made aware of what happened to FTX. And I think sometimes we have to take a stance before running fast, or we have to pull the arrow back before releasing the arrow to shoot forward. so the tragedy that happened to LUNA and FTX can actually be a lesson and a springboard for a better crypto future. so that the cryptocurrency world is cleaner than people who cheat. And now it seems that people have gradually left Cex and turned to Dex. and that's a positive thing to take.
    hero member
    Activity: 3164
    Merit: 937
    At this point it seems obvious that FTX was a giant scam.
    FTX gave a giant loan to Alameda and this loan was backed by the FTX token(which is financial nonsense). FTX wasn't supposed to use people's coins to give loans to a company, which is somehow connected to FTX. This is illegal and Sam Bankman-Fried will have to face the law.
    There are rumors about SBF running away from the US and going to Argentina and the FTX team will try to cover this scam by claiming that the exchange was "hacked". It's pretty clear that FTX wasn't hacked, this is simply an exit scam.
    Bitcoin is a confidence game, but the confidence in Bitcoin would be way higher if the crypto world wasn't full with scam companies like FTX, Voyager, Three Arrows, Terra/Luna, etc.
    Bitcoin/crypto should return to the roots and we as Bitcoiners should forget about all the sketchy high leverage, high ROI, crypto projects.
    newbie
    Activity: 20
    Merit: 2
    The essence of finance is consensus. If there is confidence in the consensus, the price of the currency will be higher and higher, and the industry will become more and more prosperous. Once the confidence is blocked, the consensus will also be blocked. At this time, the consensus will collapse, and the confidence will become more and more prosperous. Collapse, consensus building and confidence are the basic principles of value.
    legendary
    Activity: 2968
    Merit: 3684
    Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!
    Not sure I can ever come close to being neutral to Pompliano, his voice and manner rubbed off the wrong way when I first listened circa 2017/18, but there are some points to it being a confidence game, but a reminder also that only as much as FTX and all scams are con(fidence) jobs.

    P.S. The zero BTC reserves at FTX really did surprise me. I'd have expected at least fractional reserve, not zero reserve. I feel bad for regular joes there but this hopefully reminds people they're absolutely not buying Bitcoin at all when buying at exchanges or PayPal or anything that magically gives you numbers in an account when you feed it money.
    copper member
    Activity: 56
    Merit: 21
    Web3 is the future.
    Statistics on all FTX and FTX US investors. Investors in 2019 should be rewarded with rich gains. But investors beyond 2021 could see huge losses. At present, Sequoia Capital, SoftBank, etc. have reported losses of more than 100 million US dollars.

    legendary
    Activity: 2576
    Merit: 1860
    This is yet again another moment to go back to basics. We have been doing this a number of times. But since we're always failing to learn lessons, history is bound to repeat and we're once again forced to be reminded of the most fundamental principles of nothing else but Bitcoin.

    When everything started, it wasn't about centralized exchanges, lending platforms, investment opportunities, security tokens, lending, and so on and so forth. It was purely about freedom, ownership, peer to peer, transparency, censorship resistance, and so on.

    FTX, LUNA, Binance, Celsius, Voyager, BlockFi, and others are never about the fundamental principles of Bitcoin. And although they thrived following Bitcoin's success, they are basically anti-thesis to Bitcoin itself.

    I can only hope that as soon as the dust settles down, there will be a significant change of behavior in the community, although I have doubts.
    sr. member
    Activity: 2338
    Merit: 365
    Catalog Websites
      ...

      • Developers: instead of focusing on the development of the intellectually rewarding projects (namely: Bitcoin and Bitcoin related Technologies) , they indulged financially regarding projects. Hopefully many dubious project in this sphere will see a drain in funding over the coming months

      • Regulators: The long tide of these events will be a flurry of new regulations to ban, regulate, oversee the whole crypto industry. I don’t know if they will be successful, the risk of killing a nascent industry is high, but i guess they now know they need to understand the industry better. And maybe this is good for all of us.  


      https://twitter.com/Blockworks_/status/1591086026327326720

      this is really crazy, it's all exposed that he used the user's money for the development of other projects. he creates a time bomb which finally explodes at this time. The screams about "don't make a nerd, billionaire again" are getting louder.
      legendary
      Activity: 2268
      Merit: 16328
      Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
      Very good Newsletter From The Pomp.
      Remember Why We Are Here

      With a read, I report it here for your convenience:

      Quote
      Remember Why We Are Here
      Finance is a confidence game
      Anthony Pompliano
      Subscribe
      To investors,
      Finance is a confidence game. Everyone from investors to entrepreneurs have to believe that the system works, that players are held to the same standard, and that a buyer of last resort will appear in a moment of crisis.
      Central banks have understood this for years. Private banks work diligently to avoid shaking confidence. And individual market participants even wear suits and ties to drive home the message of “trust me…you can trust me!”
      But what happens when we lose confidence? Bank runs.
      Once the confidence game is up, bank clients will start requesting their funds. If the confidence game of a central bank is exposed, citizens will flee the currency in droves. We have seen these scenarios play out time and again. They are bad. Really, really bad.
      It isn’t just legacy finance though.
      We have seen the loss of confidence in the crypto industry too. The most recent example was FTX, which triggered billions of dollars of withdrawal requests. Some people were able to get their money out, while others were too slow and FTX paused withdrawals. Once the bank run starts, companies don’t have very many options.
      You can read about the FTX situation in detail elsewhere. Many journalists are doing a good job of keeping us informed of the latest developments. I am more interested in an even larger question:
      What happens if an industry begins to lose the confidence game?
      The “crypto industry” was originally just the bitcoin industry. This was the case from 2009 to approximately 2014. Since then, there have been tens of thousands of crypto assets created and launched. Bitcoin remains the king, but plenty of others were able to gather attention and capital.
      As the industry got bigger, and more sophisticated players got involved, there was an air of legitimacy that began to fill the room. Institutional investors. Billionaire hedge fund managers. Daily coverage on financial news television shows. Celebrities and athletes. Arena naming rights. Big conference parties at fancy locations.
      It was the greatest show the digital world had ever seen.
      But almost all of it was bullshit. Almost every single token will eventually be worthless. There are nearly 0 mainstream users outside of the echo chamber of crypto.
      What else did you expect from an industry that openly talked about “ponzinomics”? Or an industry that named assets like they were 4 years old and had just learned to read a coloring book? Or people who were explicitly trying to create fake assets out of thin air?
      The “crypto industry” got cocky and now the largest capital pools in the world know the industry isn’t ready for showtime.
      Throughout all the noise, and without any outside capital investment, Bitcoin has continued to shine for nearly 15 years. It has completely separated itself from the crypto industry. The digital currency is actually decentralized. It is actually used by ~ 200 million people around the world. Bitcoin has the strongest computing network in the world — one of the single greatest engineering feats in human history — securing and supporting it.
      When the confidence game is over for the crypto industry, the market comes back to bitcoin.
      There is nowhere else to flee. There is no bank run on bitcoin. In times of chaos and uncertainty, people want confidence and security.
      Bitcoin provides that confidence.
      There are bitcoin maximalists being born every minute right now. There are newly converted self-custody users popping up left and right. People are no longer asking “how high can X go,” but instead asking “how confident am I that bitcoin will last for Y years?”
      This is a natural part of the cycle. In our darkest moment, bitcoin steps to the forefront. It provides the solution. It solves the confidence crisis. Block-after-block of transactions. The digital payment network continues to provide a long-term oriented savings technology that affords anyone in the world the opportunity to protect their purchasing power over decades.
      And yes, some of you will start screaming “but bitcoin’s price is down too!!!” You are right. Every asset is down as the Federal Reserve continues to create tighter financial conditions and destroy demand. The Fed may not have been successful yet in bringing inflation under control, but it sure is doing a great job bringing asset prices down.
      If you can ignore the price and simply look at the underlying fundamentals — bitcoin continues to grow stronger. People are using it. Hash rate is hitting all-time highs. On-chain bitcoin addresses with 0.1 and 0.01 bitcoin continue to hit all-time highs. The asset is becoming more decentralized and stronger. It is gaining more global adoption.
      And the monetary policy hasn’t blinked once.
      There was no random change during the government lock downs of 2020. There was no change during the liquidity crisis of March and April 2020. There was no change during the following asset bubble. There was no change when the Fed changed course. There was no change when 3AC and Celsius fell. There was no change when FTX came under pressure, nor was there a change when the price fell further and further in recent days.
      Bitcoin does not care.
      It produces blocks of transactions for anyone in the world to access. Send and receive economic value with anyone who has an internet connection without needing permission from a third-party. The promise of peer-to-peer electronic cash is still alive and well.
      Bitcoin is winning the confidence game. We must remember why we are here.
      -Pomp


      I think Pomp here had a point.

      FTX debacle, which came too close to the LUNA/UST drama, is a harsh call on the whole system.

      Something everyone reading this forum should already know. There is Bitcoin, then there is crypto.
      But in the crypto  Far West it was difficult for everyone to keep the bar to straight , for everyone.

      • Users Yet once again. “Not your keys, not your coins”. How many times do you have to be reminded doing a good risk assessment, when deciding who is handling your private keys

        Please note the at I am not against Bitcoin custodians per se, I am against poorly chosen custodians”, whose category is often identical to “exchanges”

      • Investors: lured into dubious projects  following even more dubious APY or “risk free yield”.  Check this thread to clarify what happen when you think you are getting a risk free yield. Hopefully they now understood where the real value is, and where allocate their assets.

      • Exchanges: instead of focusing on crystal clear operations, regulations and service for clients, setting up convoluted tokenomics schemes, in the best hypothesis out of levity on unintended consequences, but often in dire fraud Hopefully this will lead to a refocusing on that matter the most for their clients (the users, not the governments -Check this thread). Many exchanges have already said are going to significantly improving their operations and transparency adding proof of reserves, as a first step


      • Developers: instead of focusing on the development of the intellectually rewarding projects (namely: Bitcoin and Bitcoin related Technologies) , they indulged financially regarding projects. Hopefully many dubious project in this sphere will see a drain in funding over the coming months

      • Regulators: The long tide of these events will be a flurry of new regulations to ban, regulate, oversee the whole crypto industry. I don’t know if they will be successful, the risk of killing a nascent industry is high, but i guess they now know they need to understand the industry better. And maybe this is good for all of us. 
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