Topic: Gambling with China and US (Read 247 times)

US and China have been like walls apart and each other trying to have advantage over the other. I remember China has been struggling to be recognised in the league of world powers and they are trying to occupy territories for trading purpose.



Quadrilateral Security Dialogue

True but that is their own fault, it was unneeded to give this technological access to a country that has always been their political and ideological enemy, also they lacked historical perspective, China has always been a superpower however during the US dominance this was not the case because of several internal factors, however by giving them all of their technology for free just to gain a few extra dollars now the US is paying for this crucial strategical mistake.

Consider the current problems with the US, UK and Russia it seems like all Russia is trying to do is to make a business argument and to make things stronger on their side with them being heard. This agressive type of confrontation that will end up one party agreeing to the demands of the other party is something that the Chinese might go for soon. China is at a very profitable place right now and I do think that their relationship can benefit both the parties as well. At the end off the day I do think that US have to face China and Russia at the same time both of them being allies therefore it would take just one wrong turn to WW3.

And on top of that, they choose to go over a trillion dollars in debt to the Chinese while unable to handle their own economy -- gives China the ability to advance themselves, pay nothing in R&D, while the US continues to drown in debt. If the Chinese take over Taiwan, they'll dominate the chip production too, then the world can enjoy paying the CCP for a chip supply that they have no control over.

Whatever they choose, they will end up the losing side, because you can bet your ass the US or China are not going to lose, everyone else is just a pawn in their games. But it seems to me that the US has less and less to offer, so I wouldn't be surprised if China took this one, as they are doing in African countries.

That is one of the most basic tactics in a negotiation, let the other party know that you have other offers and that you are willing to entertain them, that way they have no other option but to offer a better deal, so even if they do not have the intention of accepting the US offer by just accepting meeting with them this puts China in alert and most likely they will improve the offer or at least match the one made by the US, however if it was me being a leader in that region I will probably reject any deal with China.

AFAIK, China already captured most part of the water Islands spread across the bottom region while some is in the hands of US and other countries like India, Japan, etc so US will try to get it but can they make it? Already US is having financial issue like inflation rate increase in the historical level along with their debt so what will be their priorities???

Use it as leverage to milk more money from the US or whichever Western power have influence in your area. Thing is, that can only go so far, America for example isn't exactly swimming in money right now (or we can argue they are, having printed all that new money). Sooner or later, your politicians are gonna sign a deal with China and you better hope you don't end up like Sri Lanka.


We have saying about this "Better the devil you know". It also doesn't help that China has been bullying neighbors. All those countries that went into debt with China, got corruption written all over it. Those politicians got money under the table coz no one in their right minds would have agreed to those terms.

I just love this!

For years the US is evil, Americans are destroying everything, now when the alternative has been raised suddenly everyone is begging the Americans to come back.
That visit from a US nuclear carrier in a Vietnamese port is clear proof a lot of realized that while the USA has its flaws in its political interventions it's still better than anything else out there.

Besides, in this war of influence, the tables are set against China, China needs the world to buy its products, the world needs China for manufacturing but while the rest of the world can easily find another manufacturing hub to produce those, China can't find a different world to sell those to somebody.
If only leaders from other underdeveloped nations would have taken the same path at aiming to become manufacturing hubs a decade or two ago we wound;t have this trade war by now, but for some stuffing their pockets rather than building something was more convenient.

China always has this kind of mentality where they wanted to be strong although being strong is a nice trait to adopt but I think it is not right anymore if they want to be strong because they want to take over every countries.

Small and weaker countries are in danger because they cant protect themselves and I heard some of these countries seeks for help in other stronger countries except from china because they know that they will be in big trouble. Didn't know that the first deal of china and USA happened 37 years ago wow that was a long time.

Thanks a lot OP for opening a topic like this, it was like a subject in history but never taught on schools.

China is very obsessed with being able to dominate the world economy today, one of China's strongest competitors to dominate the global economy is America, so don't be surprised if the two countries are involved in an economic war that will have a significant impact on the world economy, what you say is true, I think China will continue to spread their wings of power by continuing to provide loans to developing and poor countries, so that they can stick their claws in that country and will indirectly dominate the country economy and thus making China economic power expand, I think many countries who already know China purpose in providing assistance to other countries, but for some reason they continue to depend on China at this time.
I still remember when an international airport belonging to Uganda was finally confiscated by China because the Ugandan government was unable to pay its $200 million debt. In addition to Uganda, many other countries also experienced the same thing, namely having to lose their country's assets due to debt to China, such as:

1. Uganda ($200 million) Losses Entebbe International Airport.

2. Sri Lanka ($1.5 Billion) Losses Ports and Airports.

3. Zimbabwe ($4 Million) Have to change currency to yuan as china wants.

4. Nigeria ($591,11) China requires Nigeria to use raw materials Products and labor from China.

Source : various local media

It feels like that USA realised they didn't pay too much attention to the Pacific region and let China expand heavily. For China there are two areas they want to increase their power, first economically. They will buy up as many local resources as possible to boost their economy. The second area is politically, by giving out some cheap loans or doing some infrastructure projects in the area. Like this they gain favours China then can use in important UN referendums. China requires support in the UK for their expansionary foreign policies.
On the other side, USA is not only trying to boost it's own influence against China in the Pacific region, but also against allied Country. The story of USA snatching the submarine deal with Australia from France comes to mind. It's all about staying the leading world power.

     I don't know about you all but I am strangely rooting for America. Although I am not an American nor a citizen in their country, I just find the US to be much more better than what china is. Just by watching china over the years I really hate how they deal with a lot of stuff. They always use threats and would go to huge lengths just to get what they want. China in my eyes is such a bully. Not intending to offend chinese people but I really just feel that way towards China. If China were to be in the recieving end of their actions, they'd clearly be furious.

This is China's way to dominate the world without risking any lives and they are totally successful for ejecting the debt trap on vulnerable countries which ask for huge loan unto them and leaders should be careful about this since they might lose a piece of their sovereignty if they continue to risk and deal with them.

China wants to take over many countries in the world by having the strongest economy, many small countries are now making deals with China, the deals that will not help the countries. China is giving the small countries a kind of way it can be dominant in the world. We can see many countries that will regret Chinese offer in the future in a way China would have borrowed them loans that can buy the whole country.

I am sure China is spending a lot of money in different parts of the world and there was a documentary earlier about their strategic investment globally as they are planning to become the next super power and i bet China will out bid the US when it comes to investment and strategic partnership and they need to be smart enough to understand the terms and conditions before jumping into a conclusion about these deals.

The US created China. 20 years ago these people were eating bugs. (some still do lol) The US built factories there, gave them jobs. In return, the Chinese stole everything and now they are making their own cars, planes, computers and everything else. That was the biggest treason the US ever faced imo.

This is true that China's influence in that region is ever increasing and not only in that region but China's influence in Asia, as well as Africa too, is also pretty high at this point of time especially using its Infrastructural Loans to poor countries who are not able to repay them on time. I think the US's old strategy of exerting its influence using military bases around the world has more or less faded down. I think Pacific nations know the strategic importance of their location therefore will try to capture the best deal which is available to them, but at the same time they should also try not to get overburden with any such assistance that the repayment of such loan doesn't becomes difficult.

One more thing, do not be surprised if the Chinese population will be found in various parts of the world. To take up less space and it is protected in the interests of their country. China's lending to other countries is a debt of gratitude. Moreover, when a country asks for a loan from the Chinese Yuan, the Chinese government also provides a condition that their citizens must be allowed to migrate to seek profit in that country. Instead of borrowing, in fact, income will return to the hands of Chinese people who have been prepared to migrate there and build large companies with high levels of economic income.

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken has announced that the United States are planning to open an embassy in the South Pacific (Solomon Islands) to counter China’s influence in the Pacific Islands. Source : https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/12/us-to-reopen-solomon-islands-embassy-amid-moves-to-counter-china

The last embassy closed in 1993 .... so this will hopefully bring some more stability and also economic stability in the region. (It will go down to who will be making the biggest promises and who will act on those promises) 

Seize the opportunity? The opportunity of having parts of your country taken from you for a 99-year lease? The cautionary tale of Sri Lanka should be remembered for generations. Use China as leverage, however possible is that, but refrain from signing deals with them.

So.. the US is scared because they're visiting Fiji, and you're saying the Chinese should visit after.. because they're scared of losing Fiji? Not much sense to your ramblings. We live in an ever changing world where every country is trying to buy and trade influence, it is only relatively recently that China has turned into the world's factory and earned enough money to be able to offer other countries much in return. For many years they were solely focused inwards and had many troublesome policies that caused their own people immeasurable harm. China was doing much better before Xi Jinping came along and seems to be closing back up in some respects, they're getting more repressive and certainly don't look like a healthy partner if you like freedom, they also struggle to take criticism very well.

A small country or island should really take the advantage of dealing with both countries. They have no choice but to be neutral while these two superpowers are in tension.
These pacific islands should really be wise as they'll surely be used as a possible nearby camp for any of the country's military purposes. But being wise, they shall be neutral and still be mindful with the deals that they get in.

China has been aggressive in the last 10 years, even in the country where I live in (Southeast Asia), their influence are huge and to the point that you will think that they have made this country their province already, lol.

So it's just a matter of choice for countries around Pacific Island. Or better yet, their leader could play both countries and take advantage of what they are going to offer.

After part 1 was finished, the American cold war with the Soviets at that time was called the American cold war part one.
While currently entering the cold war part 2 between America and China.
This is actually extraordinary, China can become an opponent of the American superpower in the trade war sector.
What I know is that China can get like that because the salary or wages there are very cheap, it's all because so many people there.

You are absolutely right, a new area of economic competition (not an open war yet) is the Pacific area. On one side, you have Japan, Australia and the US and, on the other, essentially the China of Xi Jinping. Russia is around yes, but does not seem to have a major part.

It is only natural that China exerts an increasing influence as it grows and the population demands their share of world resources and it is no less natural that the US and others use all their diplomatic resources to maintain the status quo.

That is how china moves since then, there are already some countries that was sanctioned by china due to not paying its debt to them. They're getting more and more power because of this. That is why asking help from china is like a double edge sword, leaders knows that but ends up choosing to get a debt from china since they are most favorable and with "good" terms.

Recently the US Secretary of State zoomed to Fiji Island to have discussion with Pacific Island Leaders. The last time such visit happened was 37 years ago. His sole aim is to counter China's influence in that region.

America and the "Quad" are scared that China's aggressive business partnership, infrastructural loans and politically interference in the Pacific will make them loose a strategic partner.

The leaders of the Pacific should cease this opportunity and get the best economic deal. Since both China and US wants their partnership, these leader should consider the offers from both parties and secure the best deal. I am sure the Chinese would visit immediately after the American Secretary leaves the Pacific.