Topic: GAWMiners.com Hash Marketplace- AVOID! (See update) (Read 8068 times)

Going by their logic here, they screwed up so they should be made to bear the consequences like anybody else.

Half of what you said here is completely irrelevant to the accusation.
He picked the wrong hashlet and confirmed it. Your hashlet not being visible on the market has nothing to do with it!


The real issue here is OP saying he was "fucked over" which in fact is a lie. He fucked himself and blames GAW, which is pathetic.

That's not the full picture. At the very least most such exchanges / software tools would have an option (often the only one or the default) to enter price per unit. There is no reason for Zen to use the total price as the basis and it doesn't even show price per unit anywhere in the process. Not to mention that you can't even see your own hashlet in the market, doesn't make sense at all. Poor UI design + target customer base of "people new to mining" = disaster.

I think this really comes down to that the OP was not paying attention to detail. He placed an order below where he wanted to and ended up having to pay for it.

Most commodity markets do not have any kind of "confirmation" period, once an order is placed, it is placed, and you can try to cancel it, but the exchange and your broker will attempt this on a "best effort" basis. I do think that the market is not large enough to really support both bids and offers so only offers (and buyers accepting sellers' offers) will need to remain.

I agree. I'm just following the logic of claims that the marketplace is "eBay-like". It shouldn't be. It's a commodity market, not a flea market. Anyway, I'm more interested now in how the issue with GAW fatfingering the wrong MH/s (see a couple of posts up) will be resolved, and how the resolution compares to the issue of users fatfingering the wrong selling price.

This would still not deal with the issue of people not having a reason to log into the account very often. If you must confirm a sale then you must log in every day just to check if an order is filled or not.

I think it is stupid to make the seller agree to fill a sale after they have already offered their hashlets for sale. The buyer wants to know for sure they will be able to buy the hashlets and will not want to participate in a matketplace if they may have to wait several days just to find a seller that will confirm a sale.

So here is an interesting moral dilemma. It looks like GAW may have sent out 25 MH/s Prime activation codes instead of 1 MH/s. Some users activated them and dumped them on the market. GAW halted withdrawals to sort this out. At the time of this posting the final outcome is not yet known, but in the light of MrGreenHat's problem and other similar incidents, what would be the right solution:

a) let it be as it is - all sales are final, GAW made an error, their problem - just like many in this thread were saying it's the seller's problem if he/she fatfingers the wrong price. Consistent with GAW's stance on user-inflicted pricing errors, right?

or

b) Try to make it how it should have been if the activation code was correct. E.g. confiscate the funds from the proceeds of the 25 MH/s sale and put 1 MH/s back into seller's account. Or remove 24 MH/s from the accounts that haven't sold them yet. But what to do with the purchaser? Take away their cheap Primes and refund? But the purchaser didn't do anything wrong, it wasn't too good to be true, perhaps 20-25% cheaper than usual. Or what if the seller withdrew funds before being caught?

Any other options?

https://hashtalk.org/topic/11685/market-update

There could be reasonable timeframe, e.g. 24 hours to confirm or the sale is auto-cancelled, and a rating system to deal with deadbeats.

I don't like it at all, I'd much prefer an "exchange" interface, but a lot of posters here and on HT seem to be convinced that Zen marketplace is more comparable to e.g. eBay (both by function and by the fee amount) and not to e.g. Cryptsy. And on places like eBay the seller makes the final decision whether to deliver the product to a specific buyer, so it seems appropriate to have the same kind on seller protection on Zen.

When a seller places an offer on the market place they are essentially agreeing to "accept" any bid at the price they are offering. The GAW marketplace is also not a site that people will regularly log into and the same goes with the zen portal as everything is really automated and there are no setting to adjust, and nothing to really get an update on. All you really have to do is withdraw your money every so often assuming that you do have this set to automatically happen. If a seller needs to confirm a sale then he could potentially delay a sale long enough to see how the difficulty will change, potentially making a sale at a certain price more or less attractive to him. If a sale is not attractive then he cancels the order and the buyer looses out, if the sale is more attractive, then by default it is now less attractive to the buyer, and the seller confirms the sell and the buyer looses.

This was your fault... and you think GAWminers.com should be held responsible for your stupid mistake??  I hope no one actually listens to OP, such a fucking idiot.

My hashlet payments are just fine if that's what you're asking.

Are you paid by GAW?

That red color you chose to make it more visible harmonizes with your trust.
I could personally congratulate them for abusing thieves like you.

GAW has actually scammed me.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/gawminers-zencloud-is-a-scam-improperly-deducted-btc-no-reply-from-support-818650

From hashtalk announcement:

We’ve Added a Confirmation Screen on ZenCloud Sales
We’ve gone to work to ensure every seller has time to double check all the details of their sell order before they list their Hashlets on the marketplace. With the next ZenCloud update, you will see a confirmation screen when you attempt to list your Hashlet for sale. You will have to confirm the sale before your Hashlet is added and can be bought by another user.

But sellers are getting more than just that. Added security is nice, but openness and transparency is just as important. So now, I’m proud to say that…

The Hashlet Marketplace Now Shows Seller Names & Seller’s Custom Message
We’ve reached out to many of you on this feature and the conclusion is clear. You want an active, community driven marketplace that’s very different from traditional stock markets.

How do you know how much demand is there and how much would be "enough"? And how someone placing a buy order would force a seller to sell at a lower price? Sellers place "sell" orders, buyers place "buy" orders, sale occurs if they meet. As it is now, sellers place "sell" orders in the dark, if they guess the demand or make a horrid snafu, they might sell. Why would more transparency be a bad thing here - I don't get it.

But as I said above, if the "exchange" logic is not acceptable, there is no reason to NOT allow the seller to back out of the transaction, seller's fault or not. A simple "Accept" or "Decline" option after the buyer puts money into escrow would solve most of these "fat finger" or "brain fart" issues.

As for GAW sales, they get 10% of each marketplace sale so making it work properly would help with that too.

There is really not enough demand so that it would make sense to have bids listed on their exchange/marketplace/whatever you want to call it. Having bids listed would result in sellers selling for much less then what their hashlets are worth and GAW would have a hard time selling directly to the customer in the first place.

I believe that the OP did have the option of canceling his order however it was filled too quickly for him to be able to cancel. Buyers have the option of sorting by price per MH so someone likely had sorted by this way, saw his order and quickly purchased.

I have also sold on gaw and it takes a lot to create a sell order, you have to click several times, so the OP was either not paying attention to what he was doing or is trying to scam GAW to give him a refund (while keeping the buy order on his other account)

"Everything changes in October"....yep, our ROI.  I have been trying to dump my account for a bit.  I have been upset by the NiceHash fiasco. 

+1

I went to the ATM to withdraw $1500 but accidentally lost it..

Now who is the dumb ass here.. me or the bank...?

I'm sure they will do something to help you out but in the end it was your fault. You made a mistake and want the company to pay for your mistake. If I have learned anything with bitcoin it's always double, tripple check what you are about to do because if you make a mistake it's more than likely gone forever. Guess this is just a expensive way to learn a lesson.

An exchange-type model would be driven by supply and demand, if there is no demand AT ALL the seller wouldn't be able to sell, but the OP sold hashlets (albeit at a very very low price), so there is demand. Making buyer bids available wouldn't make it worse than it is now, and in cases where there is demand it would make it much better for both sides. Exchanges routinely deal with hundreds or thousands of different assets, a few types of hashlets shouldn't be a problem. However if GAW prefers to stick with the "marketplace" model and not "exchange" - see below.

Price errors are not "good deals". Yes, it's the sellers fault. No, it's not wrong to allow the seller to cancel the sale in the current Zen marketplace model, which is more like eBay, Amazon, craigslist, or your local flea market, ALL of which allow that. Yes, the buyer would be unhappy. There are ways to deal with that too, if GAW wanted to make this a civilized marketplace. E.g. non-refundable listing or transaction fees.

I think the point I'm trying to make is that it's not necessary to invent anything new - there are proven models that work, and GAW also has the advantage to learn from mistakes of others. Instead they're choosing to make their own mistakes and punt the responsibility on users. Not cool.

I doubt it's intentional, more likely just sloppy/rushed design and coding. Just a week or two ago they had a major "mea culpa" moment and promised to not release untested code anymore, but they referred mostly to unit/functional testing. I haven't seen usability testing being addressed.

There's always some room for improvement. Maybe the owners will read this and make it more noob friendly.

Anyway, this doesn't change anything for MrGreenHat. He still made a mistake and wasn't scammed by the site!



+1

Somebody already made a topic with a similar claim.  If they refund 1 human error people will just be more careless. Why confirm the price if you can get a refund every time?

The difference is that there are different sizes and types of hashlets and the markets is not deep enough so that this would be possible. Also the differences between the types of hashlets is small enough so that most people will not case what kind they get, only the price and the hashrate, however the types do make a big difference to gaw, so this is why they have the market setup the way they do.

If gaw were to allow the OP to cancel his sale after the offer was filled then the buyer would have an issue with gaw because they would not be able to take advantage of a good deal they found and paid for

Im surprised no one is upset about the fact that they have dropped prices on ONLY  the hashlets that can be sold in the marketplace by about $2 for each one. Now, anyone who was trying to sell their hashlet and get a decent amount back for it can expect to get even less. Is it not obvious to anyone but me what these guys are doing?

Finally, someone who sees my point. You are exactly right. I truly believe that GAWMiners.com intentionally has made their "marketplace" confusing so that they can profit off of this exact kind of issue. I am almost certain that it wasn't another GAWMiners.com customer who got my 70 MH's of zen hashlets for $18.90, I believe GAWMiners.com themselves probably has some kind of script running to take advantage of opportunities such as the one I mistakenly provided for them. I have not received ANY response from "Eric", the guy who was supposed to contact me after the "bitcoin conference in vegas" according to the woman I spoke with at GAWMiners telephone support. I also filed a "ticket" and NOTHING. So basically, they haven't even responded to me, other than the first time I called them (within 5 minutes of the $1400 mistake), and the woman told me there was nothing that could be done, but when I suggested that there certainly was something that could be done and that I needed to speak to someone at the company who could actually help me, she put me on hold for five minutes and said "I emailed Eric your contact info and he will be in touch A.S.A.P.".

I'm sure there would be plenty of demand if they let buyers put bids in. Or if it's a marketplace then the seller should have the last word whether to let the item go when a buyer shows up with the money. Now it has the worst features of both concepts.

You're comparing a marketplace with an exchange. When threre's not enough sales you can't have a market depth. If he listed it on a new exchange with no bid orders the outcome would have beeen the same.

It's not quite like that, is it? If you sell LTC at a proper exchange that has decent market depth and proper order matching the worst thing that could happen is that you would sell it at the highest bid price, but not at a 90% or 99% discount as happened with some hashlet sales. But that is not the model Zen chose for its marketplace, i.e. there are no bids, just "for sale" listings. It's more comparable to e.g. eBay or craigslist than to a currency exchange. However on eBay or craigslist the seller has more time to decide to back out of the transaction - perhaps at the expense of bad feedback but still. Zen marketplace seems rushed and poorly designed for its intended use.

sadly , sounds the same as if you sold 70 litecoin for the wrong price and someone snatched it up.

One of the problems with hosted hash power.  You have no real control over what you are mining.

When you own mining equipment these things cannot happen. Of course I understand some people like the hosted mining thing but really it is a limiting factor.  Buying the mining equipment eliminates all these issues.

I don't think GAW had anything to do with this sale, the blame solely is on you.  I don't mean to sound like a dick, but the reason you could not cancel was someone beat you to the punch and purchased it.  there are tons of folks that sit there and hit f5 (refresh) waiting for a mistake sale. 

it sucks, but dust yourself off and move on. 

Just to make it clear - automated scripts of this nature are prohibited by GAW and if someone indeed used some kind of scraper like that to buy OP's hashlets the transaction should be reversed. However there isn't any way to prove it as far as I know.

FWIW this is far from an isolated incident. The Zen marketplace user interface is notoriously clunky and unnecessarily confusing. For example the cloud's own price list shows hashlet prices per MH/s and there is no reason why users selling on the marketplace should be required to enter the TOTAL price. If the price was entered per MH/s the risk of incidents like this would be greatly diminished. I'm not saying it's not the OP's fault, because sadly it is, but there are some very simple tweaks GAW/Zen could and should implement to prevent this from happening.

Have it scrape the offers page continuously. Once an offer appears low enough have it automatically buy it.

But this wasn't a BITCOIN TRANSACTION. This was a sale of "hashlets" on a marketplace that is very prone to human error and I am still very suspicious about why I couldn't remove it from the market, I literally immediately had my cursor on the "remove from sale" button the moment I clicked the last "OK", and saw that my last green hashlet was the 1 MH, not the 70 MH. I do not believe that anyone could have possibly had time to be lucky enough to search the market, find my accidental order, and go through the protocol of purchasing it. If people do have some kind of scripts or programs running to profit from this, then GAWMiners.com should work to identify and eliminate them for the protection of their customers.

I have been at both ends of fat fingers in the past. Luckily, my losses have been minimal.

OP, I know it sucks, but its not their fault at all. If you think the process is tedious and that they should have a bigger confirmation, you should have mailed them earlier with that feedback.

I don't agree. He confirmed the order, which makes him responsible for the price.
The fact that the system isn't forgiving, doesn't make it faulty. Just look at a typical bitcoin transaction, once you confirm it, it's over.

Remember that he traded the hashlets himself, which means he chose to sell them and got paid. Even if he managed to perform a chargeback this would be nothing but a fraud.
What if every client, who missclicked in the API, wanted a rollback?
I understand the OP is angry, but there's really nothing they can do about it, but learn from it and maybe make it more difficult for people to place orders on the marketplace.

GAW probably has a bot that looks for errors like this and then puts in a split-second buy. They profit while you lose. Then they can tell you to gfys if you complain about a mistake.

I was going to use the money to buy some prime hashlets instead, in fact, I was going to buy $10k worth. I was gawminers.com biggest fan until yesterday, but now every hashlet I own is for sale and I am never doing business with them again. If they can't rectify what was clearly a human error, then clearly they don't give a shit about their customers. GAWMiners.com exchange platform can be EXTREMELY difficult to navigate, especially when you own a lot of hashlets and split them up and you've got 20 different hashlet icons, and the only way to tell one from the other is to make damn sure before you click "sell hashlet on market" that you have clicked the correct one (which, as I mentioned earlier, all look exactly alike except for the amount of MH which is displayed in the center of the hashlet in tiny font.) And once you click "sell" and they ask you to confirm your sale, it simply asks if you are SURE you want to sell your zen hashlet, it doesn't say are you sure you want to sell your *70* MH or *1* MH zen hashlet. If anything, let this be a warning to anyone who plans on selling hashlets on GAWminers.com, be VERY careful when doing so.

I didn't originally open it as a Scam accusation, it was moved here by a moderator. I originally posted this in the Mining section.

Haha try doing the same thing on any exchange. Type a sell order, click confirm and then email them to give you back the money Good luck!
The only thing this topic proves is how stupid people can be, and I'm not talking about the mistake you made (shit happens), I'm talking about opening a scam accusation thread, even though the whole thing is clearly your fault.

how would one create a script like this?

Time to quit the world of cryptocurrency ....


But for what reason you wanted to sell your hashlets. they are not giving  you the expected return?

I have saw problems like your case more than twice in the last week, if ever i had to sell anything i would put the highest price ever just to understand how its work.


and would think 300 times before selling it .

Sadly even in human error, I do not think GAW will help you, they will just say the problem is out of their control. I am actually surprised people use them with the odd one man customer service they have.

I'm not going to sit here and debate the fact that I made a stupid error. But in my defense, all of those mother fucking hashlets look the same when you are selling them and the only way to differentiate one from an another is the small white on black MH/s marker in the center. After you've been splitting hashlets up and selling them, it becomes monotonous and that's usually when you are going to see user error. I was down to my last hash let that I had planned on selling and I accidentally clicked the wrong one, and after you click "Sell on Market", I had no way of telling the difference between the two hashlets because when you split hashlets they have the same name.

if you really bought them, what was their name?

It would be very easy for someone running a script set up to buy any hashlets at a big discount to buy it in a split second.

Also I just checked, you need to hit "Sell" then "Confirm" then "Confirm" again. I'm not sure what you expect them to do other than disallowing people from selling at the price they want.

I dont know man.

We've grown close.

well im glad at least you now admit its your screw up.

dont worry, it took me a while to when i fatfingered on trex. fuck you richie & rami you fuckers owe me a boat.

If you actually did purchase them,  I would really appreciate it if you would let me send you a few hundred bucks in exchange for the return of the 70 MHs of zen hashlets. Obviously you aren't obligated to do so, but if you are willing to help someone out who screwed up on accident, I will certainly compensate you.

You fuck up and blame the company for your mistake....classic...

There is no possible way that anyone could have purchased them in the amount of time between when I clicked "Sell" and then "Remove from Market". It was literally a split-second, and I continued to click "remove from market" for at least 2 minutes before it actually sold. So I don't think that is what happened.

Very likely because somebody purchased them immediately.  The portal wouldn't let you because they were no longer yours to remove from the market.

I'm actually not kiddin.

You ALL seem to be missing the point. I realize that it was my fault for clicking "YES", but there is no reason that I shouldn't have been able to remove them instantly, which the portal would not let me.

one time i fatfingered and accidentally dumped my ARCH for cheap on Bittrex.

I called Rami & Richie and told them it was a mistake and I never intended to sell them so they should reverse the transaction.

They told me to go fuck myself.

I realize that, but the second I hit "sell", I immediately realized what I had done and tried to take it off the market. It wouldn't let me. Then a few minutes later, it sold. I am upset because the website prevented me from taking it off the market the second I put it on.

Have you tried turning it off and on again?

Don't click the wrong button, newb.

yes means yes.

sorry for you, but you pushed the sell button. not them. if you want to sell low, its your call. not theirs.

I'm glad you think its funny.

Thanks for the hashlets 

So about 20 minutes ago, I was splitting up some of my Zen Hashlets to sell.
I had a total of 73 MH/s of zen hashlets, and I split them 70 MH, 1 MH, 1 MH, 1 MH.
 
I never intended to sell the 70 MH. Somehow, I accidentally clicked on the 70 MH hashlet on accident and typed in the price of what I would sell the 1 MH Zen hashlet for (thinking I was selling my 3rd and last 1 MH zen hashlet).

I IMMEDIATELY realized what I had done and within a split second clicked "Remove miner from sale", but I kept getting error messages saying that I could not remove the miner for sale. A few minutes later, the 70 MH Zen Hashlet sold for $18.90, so I effectively spent ~$1400 on Zen Hashlets only to have them sold for a total of $18.90. I instantly called GAWMiners.com, explained the situation, and asked if they could reverse the transaction. Their response was that there was "nothing they could do about it" and that all of their supervisors are busy at a conference in Vegas. I asked to speak to ANYONE in their office who was a supervisor and apparently this one phone technician was the only person working (according to her).

This is a fucked up situation. I gave my contact information to the tech-support woman I spoke with and she said that she would send an email to "Eric" who is at the conference in Vegas relaying my situation and contact information. Now I get to sit here and wait knowing that these so called "Geniuses at Work" just fucked me out of approximately $1,380.00.


I thought this company was legit, they seemed like they were willing to go the extra mile for the customer, but they have proven to me in this instance that they don't give two SHITS about their customers. Obviously, no one is going to sell 70 MH of zen hashlets for $18.90, and they should recognize that it was a simple human error and reverse the transaction, I made sure to call them the second it happened so that they could take care of it A.S.A.P., but instead they basically told me to "fuck off".

UPDATE:
10/10/14. 6:10 P.M. EDT

Still haven't heard back from anyone at GAWMiners, after filing a support ticket and being told by customer service that my contact info had been forwarded to "Eric". Also, interestingly enough- they have lowered the prices for every hashlet available in their hash market by about $2!!! What a surprise! I guess the 10% cut they were getting (they get 5% from bother seller AND buyer in their marketplace) just wasn't enough for those greedy bastards, so they dropped the price on brand new hashlets so they could sell more of those and leave those trying to sell their hashlets for a decent price screwed! Talk about fucked up business practices!!

Do not do business with these people!

If they do contact me and fix this mess I will update this thread, but until then, I think this thread should serve as a cautionary tale for anyone who plans on doing business with GAWMiners.com