Topic: Gaza and international law!! (Read 762 times)

Another evidence of the double standards of almost all politicians after Arab and international countries, organizations and movements welcomed the issuance of two arrest warrants by the International Criminal Court against Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and dismissed Defense Minister Yoav Galant on charges related to committing war crimes and crimes against humanity during the ongoing war of extermination on the Gaza Strip. While the matter witnessed a European discrepancy between commitment to the decisions of the International Court and geopolitical sensitivity, especially those that provide unconditional support to Israel. While many countries expressed their commitment to the court’s decision, some other countries expressed their rejection of the decision and their readiness to receive the accused on their lands and not to comply with the conviction decision. Some analysts said that this is a bold decision that will restore hope in the role of the International Court of Justice and provide opportunities to hold war criminals accountable, while others said that the decisions of the International Court are not neutral and are mixed with politics. It is true that the International Court of Justice is very slow in making diagnoses and issuing decisions, but it has succeeded throughout its history in directing official international condemnations against war criminals and some of them have been arrested.

I have emphasized many times that the myth of the “Promised Land” is one of the lies that was promoted to establish a state for the Jews according to the Zionist project. The Torah (according to the rabbinic interpretation) claims that God promised the Jews a land for themselves after their exodus from Egypt (those who believed in Moses), and the lie says that Palestine is this land, even though the Torah does not mention the name or location of this land. On this basis, the founders of Zionism developed multiple options for the place on which this state could potentially be established. There were several options, including Chad in Africa and other places with an ancient Jewish presence, such as the island of Djerba in Tunisia or Morocco. The choice fell on Palestine since it had left the authority of The Ottomans would enter under the British mandate, and therefore no one would object, at least in the first period of establishment. The West supported this choice to ensure the preservation of its interests in the region, especially since Britain and France were forced to grant independence to those countries, meaning that their influence there declined. The idea of establishing Israel was a new colonial plan for the entire region and not just for the land of Palestine, since Israel represents the cancer that is eating away at the body of the region, hindering the countries of the region from progressing and giving Western countries the appropriate pretext to impose hegemony of a different kind that serves their interests.

Israel could not have been established in an organized state on the political and economic levels, since the Jews were outcast almost everywhere, and therefore the safest and least expensive places had to be chosen. To clarify, the Jews actually came in the beginning and began buying lands at exorbitant prices in order to own them, claiming in the end that they were the actual owners, with the addition of the sacred character that it was land that God had promised them.

In political and ideological relations, there is a well-known saying that there are no permanent enemies and no permanent friends, but there are permanent interests. This saying is what explains the state of agreement that we currently see between Western countries and their Zionist Jewish friends. The truth is that the Zionist movement is what brings them together currently and is what guarantees the unity of their position to preserve common interests.
Some people mistakenly imagine that the hostility is between Muslims and Jews versus Christian-Jewish consensus. This is the fallacy that Huntington sought to theorize in his book “The Clash of Civilizations,” completely forgetting the emergence and development of the Zionist movement, which emerged from the cloak of religion since it arose in Christian circles to later become a global movement that included people who believed in it from different religious and cultural backgrounds, some of whom were not really religious. This movement is driven by the interests of those affiliated with it and has absolutely nothing to do with religion. Rather, they are trying to promote a religious background in an attempt to divert attention from the real causes of origin. The most important evidence that can be relied upon is the presence of Jews in both Israel and Palestine themselves who do not believe in Zionism or the Israeli state, at the same time that many non-Jews support the establishment of Israel as a state for the Jews.

I am convinced that the conflict has nothing to do with religion and that both sides of the conflict are trying to give it a religious character to win over the masses. Today, both parties support racist ideas, which cannot support a peace map solution in the region, and here we see it today clearly in Gaza, which is being emptied of its urban content to later be transformed into a new Israeli colony. Two days ago, the Israeli Parliament supported the government's decision to reject the establishment of a unilateral Palestinian state and thus continue the campaign against Gaza.

The biggest hoax is what we call today the Holocaust or what is known as the "Nazi Holocaust." This big lie made the Jews play the role of victims of what they considered a global conspiracy against them on the basis of their status as Jews, meaning that they were subjected to ethnic cleansing on the basis of the sect they believed in. From there, the Nazi Holocaust was linked to Semitism, and accordingly, anyone who doubted its occurrence became an anti-Semite. This is one of the most extreme ideologies ever, and one that Western propaganda helped establish and support in every possible way.

In fact, the Zionists have never stopped supporting these theories, including punishing anyone who questions their credibility. But fortunately, there are rational academics and specialists in civilization and history who refused to follow the herd philosophy and spread their ideas that undermine all these ideologies and expose their purpose. I consider every person who questions these myths to be one of the lucky ones who refuse to deceive themselves and their minds just because everyone believes them.
In this same context, it is worth noting that Western societies believe the lies of their governments and only a few elite percentages acknowledge the falsity of Jewish history as the Zionists want to promote it.

There is an important book written by a French researcher named Roger Garaudy, which is the book “The Founding Myths of the State of Israel,” in which he talks about the myth of the Promised Land and the Temple of Solomon, which is supposed to exist when we demolish Al-Aqsa Mosque, according to what the Zionists say. One of these myths that the book explained was that the so-called Jewish Holocaust did not happen in the first place and that the concentration camps for detainees included everyone. Scientists supported this idea on the basis that the idea of creating gas chambers was technically impossible to create in a record period in which thousands would die without finding mass graves where they were buried.

The West contributed to providing a conducive climate for the spread of these myths by supporting the Zionist Jews to become a political movement that later worked at length to establish a homeland for the Jews in Palestine, including also contributing to the expulsion of Britain from Palestine, so that the Israeli state could be declared a few months later.

Everyone must be aware that the war is against a global Zionist movement that includes people of different nationalities and different religious backgrounds, since I cannot blame Netanyahu alone as a Jewish Israeli, and at the same time remove the blame from Biden only because he is an American Christian, that is, not an Israeli. They are all partners in sin.

It is a crying joke that Ukraine, which complains of Russia's occupation of it, voted in favor of Israel against Palestine during the vote in the United Nations.

The Jews have no power without a force greater than themselves to support them. One of the exciting theories says that the West was complaining about the Jews with all their racism and rejected them until recently, so they agreed to give them Palestine to get rid of them and preserve their interests. Today, the West supports Israel because if the forces are equal with the Palestinians, the Israelis will go to Europe, and this is what Westerners do not want in general. This theory explains the very large support that Israel has received since the announcement of its establishment in 1948 and even before that date. History books mention that short-term displacement campaigns of European Jews occurred before the Holocaust and continued during World War II until after it and until today.

According to specialized studies in the history of Jewish groups, the Jews are Jewish religious groups from different cultures, all of whom are closed in the form of conservative religious groups. This closure prevented the Jews from practicing most of the important professions and jobs, which prompted them to turn to other activities such as lending on interest and trades specialized in precious metals, which helped them develop their wealth in a way that allowed them the ability to influence. No one wanted a religious group to have powers that could not be controlled, and therefore each country chose a reason to expel them, which increased their dispersion before waves of displacement began to take place to a specific destination, which is Palestine.
That is why I believe that the idea of establishing the State of Israel is being worked on by Western leaders more than Israel itself. Imagine that the amount of money in support of Israel in a four-month-old war from the United States alone exceeded the amount of spending on supporting Ukraine by all supporters in its war with Russia, which is nearly two years old.

There is no international law. Only laws for the safeguard of some particular countries. If you are part of that country, then you are the elite class and if you are not part of any such country, then you can be raped, killed, tortured and everyone will give you a blind eye. No one will care about you.
I watched the movie hunger games, and looking at it, i thought that we are actually living the same. For the Elite, the torture and killing of the muslims and third world countries are actually a source of joy and entertainment.

You mean the Hannibal Protocol where Israeli terrorists are ordered to eliminate any of their own forces that are left behind? No, that massacre did not start this conflict. It started ~75 years ago when the Zionists infested Palestine and started ethnically cleansing the locals that included Arabs, Jews, Muslims, Christians, etc.

No reason to get completely conspiratorial on the issue of the October massacre in Israel, which started all this senseless conflict. Besides, we all knew the United States has been and will continue to be an unconditional ally for Israel, so there is no surprise when we all see the way the USA and the international community reacts to the attacks on Gaza and the convoys with help going to Gaza.
Just think about the United States and the countries under the influence of its power, if USA is unconditional expected to support Israel, then also those countries which are allies of the USA will do the same.

There have been very few countries, one of them being South Africa, which have denounced the alledged genocide taking place in Gaza, and the left media in the West also talking about it. Though, to me the silence of Russia and China are indeed strange, I would have expected them to be more explicit on this matter

The international community represented in the United Nations could not even protect its headquarters, which are supposed to be protected under international law, despite the fact that Israel has never hesitated to bomb UNRWA facilities or target the supply trucks arriving there. The United Nations merely expressed its dissatisfaction with what happened without exercising the measures authorized by international law.

The war on Gaza exposes the complicity of the entire international community, which helps Israel by remaining silent about its crimes. At the same time, figures appeared indicating that the latest support funding plan for Israel from the US administration amounts to $140 billion. Even the Russia-China alliance did not care much about confronting the West in this war because it benefited from it if it diverted attention from the Ukrainian war.
Israel found an opportunity in the October events to begin working on a plan that it has been seeking to implement for a long time because it has been besieging the Gaza Strip for a long time and it only needed an excuse in front of Western public opinion, which helped it appear as a victim. It seems as if it was planned a long time ago and Israel received the support of the international community before the events of October began.

During a visit he made last Thursday to Lebanon, British Prime Minister David Cameron announced that his country is studying the possibility of recognizing a Palestinian state before the end of negotiations between the Israelis and Palestinians regarding the two-state solution, warning at the same time that this will not happen as long as the Hamas movement is still in Gaza. . In the same context, he made it clear that recognition of the Palestinian state cannot take place at the beginning of the negotiation process, but he will not wait for its end, which may take years to come. Cameron said that the first step must be a "cessation of fighting" in Gaza, which will eventually turn into a "permanent and sustainable ceasefire."

Although the negotiation process between the two parties has stopped since 2009, and despite the declared rejection by the Israeli side of the establishment of an independent Palestinian state, if this initiative succeeds, it may isolate Israel internationally and force it to sit at the negotiating table.

To clarify, this is not a new proposal because other Western countries, in addition to the United States, support the idea of an independent Palestine living alongside Israel as a solution to the most difficult conflict in the region. But the main obstacle to this option is Israel itself, which uses false excuses every time.
This initiative comes after statements by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and the far-right ministers in his government about rejecting the establishment of a Palestinian state, announcing an increase in the pace of settlement in the West Bank, and showing intentions to return settlement outposts to the Gaza Strip after the displacement of its population.

This cannot be a valid reason, especially since presenting these pretexts coincides with the decisions of the International Court, which contain implicit accusations against Israel. Even if there was collusion by UNRWA with Hamas (this is unlikely to be true), it is not a justification for cutting off food and medicine supplies to children and civilians. At least this aid could have been directed through other channels and not stopped completely.

I am afraid that your assessment is slightly wrong, my friend, because it is Israel that did not support the two-state solution, as was agreed upon between Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser Arafat, Chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization, in Oslo 1993, which ended with Rabin’s assassination, thus aborting the last attempt to stabilize peace in the region.

I don't think so. Violence in the region won't cease because those zones are under the control of the Israel goverment. If you have been paying attention to the tactics used by them, you should have realized violence is not something they want to avoid, is a tool used to reach their objectives. There is a reason the government of Israel gives weapons to settlers of the west bank, to commit violence against those go live there and dare to question the settlements.
Even if Gaza and the west bank ended up under the control of the Israel, it would be foolish to assume Israel would immediately grant citizenship to Palestinians, they would be displaced and would likely lose their homes and properties.
People in Palestine would feel so helpless and angry some of them would see no problem in joining terrorist organizations like Hamas, which is being funded from abroad.
A two states solution is still doable, but it requires to defund and destroy those terror groups which are nor willing to accept such path, and endangering civilians in s very reckless and selfish way. While civilians get in the front line (because the frontline is by their homes and businesses) the leaders of Hamas drink fine Wine and eat caviar in Qatar.

The power people are the ones that controls the world, even the international court would have nothing to do or any laws to punish countries that failed to stick to the law keep the peace of the world. Meybe you have forgotten when the United States kill the Iran top most general in the region. Many countries condemned the act but nothing happens so far since it's the world powerful country that committed the act. Just imagine that the act was committed by a less powerful country, the whole world might have turned against the country in particular.

The attacks may seem brutal but it would save more lives in the future as Israeli and Palestinian would live in peacefully under the leadership of Israel.
There was a time for 2 state solution but the motive of 2nd state was to kill Israeli citizen as many as possible. So that is not the option on the table for now.
When the gaza comes under IDF like the west bank, the violence on the region would drastically reduce. All of turkey, Saudi, Jordan and Egypt have a relatively stabler law and order and any issue from pockets of Lebanon and Syria could be easily fixed by bombing them. Assad already has a deal with Israel and if Lebanon can't control Hezbolla, they'll be next controlled by Israel.

Alledgely the support was withdrawn for the UNRWA by those countries because it was discovered there were members who were part of HAMAS and we're informed about the attack against Israel back in October 7th. Still, I am not sure whether that is a valid reason to withdraw help to Palestinian civilians who had nothing to do with that alledged infiltration of Hamas.
To me, it is very unlikely the accusations of Genocide in the international scenario will do something to stop the aggressions, Israel had already made its position very clear about the existence of a Palestinian state in the middle east. There have even been politicsl clashes and disagreements between the government of Israel and the government of the United States concerning the two states solution, it would seem that Netanyahu does not want to give the Gaza strip back to the people of Palestine once he had managed to completely take over it and expel Hamas out of it.
I am going s step ahead, and predicting Israel will say they won't give Gaza back to the Palestine administration because that would incite and help for Hamas to go back and reestablish their operations in the strip, people will disagree, but Israel will get away with it because the impunity they seem to have in this matter.

In an unprecedented step, the Republic of South Africa had recently filed a lawsuit in the International Court (the judicial body affiliated with the United Nations) against Israel on charges of genocide against civilians in the Gaza Strip. South Africa had prepared a report of thousands of pages and defended its position before the judges of the court, who did not hesitate to issue a decision forcing Israel to take measures to avoid genocide and to submit a report on its military operations in the Strip within a month. Of course, the court did not dare to request a ceasefire or to condemn specific parties.
In the first repercussions of this decision, the United States, Canada, Italy, and Australia announced the cessation of their financial support to UNRWA (the Palestinian refugee relief and works organization).

I think that there is no longer any doubt about the crimes committed by Israel, which could amount to war crimes. The court's recent decision, although it was long overdue and although it may not have beneficial results at all levels, nevertheless settled the debate about taking the appropriate position on what is happening.

Sometimes law and ethics/morals don't overlap.

I was refering to the potential legal ramifications for the leaders of the Israeli government.

As for how they chose to fight the terrorists, well, I am not them so I don't know what they are thinking.

One thing I will say, I would not want to be in their position.

How do you eradicate these terrorists who are hidding among 50% of residents of Gaza who do not support Hamas?
How can you tell who is the terrorist and who is not? Impossible task to do, IMHO.

Ask yourself this question: how long would it take you to walk 20km to the southern part of Gaza? 5 hours?

This is the worst argument that can be relied upon to justify what is happening. I will answer you on the three points you mentioned:

- The international community does not intend to hold the Israeli army accountable for what it is doing, and therefore the army does not fear anything, even if its responsibility for the massacres is proven with material evidence. Israel knows this, so it does not give any value to international standards.

- The bombing is carried out on all areas of the Gaza Strip, whose area does not exceed 42 square kilometers. Bombing of schools and hospitals, and yesterday they bombed a convoy of ambulances heading towards the Rafah crossing in the south. Israel gives citizens minutes before carrying out bombing operations. Can you explain to me how a hospital or school crowded with civilians can be evacuated within a few hours? This is nonsense.

- According to the latest statistics, more than 10,000 people were killed in Gaza. Among them are more than 3,000 children and countless women and elderly people. Do you find it logical to exterminate all this number under the pretext of eliminating a few hundred who are already hiding underground?

If Hamas uses civilians as human shields and public humanitarian facilities as hideouts, does this justify the annihilation of those shields and the bombing of those facilities? You justify horrific massacres with this logic.
The Palestinian people are not Hamas, and Hamas does not exist in the West Bank. Can you explain to me why 100 Palestinians were killed in the West Bank even though there were no Hamas fighters there?

Please stop justifying violence. This took away part of your humanity.

If Israeli officials are ever brought to ICC on war crime charges, prosecution will have a hard time proving the intent.

Israel warns civilians daily to move to the southern part of Gaza. The civilian casulties are unintentional, IMHO.

They clearly stated their intent: eradication of Hamas. Not eradication of Palestinians.

I may be one of the few who do not find a solution in the project of establishing two states, one for Israel and the other for Palestine. This situation was adopted more than 50 years ago and it did not work. The Palestinians demand the entire land, which is theoretically their legitimate historical right, even if it costs them the annihilation of all the Israelis. The Israelis want the entire land, even if it costs them the annihilation and displacement of all the Palestinians, which is what it has actually been working on for 75 years and is still in the process of working.

In my opinion, the only solution to this issue is to establish one state for all Palestinians and Israelis on the principle of citizenship and not according to sect or race. This project cannot be implemented unless rational people appear in Israel and not fundamentalists like those in the ruling class since the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, and the Palestinians abandon the differences between them because their dispersion is what increases the crisis and makes Israel appear stronger.

The problem with that two states solution is that there are factions in both Israel and Palestine which do not recognize the existence of one another. Under those conditions is very difficult to establish a two states solution which could guarantee an extended period of time of peace within the middle east.
Even if both states are created and recognized by most of the countries on this planet, what could prevent Hamas or Israeli nationalist to attack civilians and carry out terrorist actions against their perceived enemies?

It is sad, but I am afraid Israel may be aiming to the total destruction of the Palestine nation, based on how Hamas and other terror organizations have acted through these years

The war in Gaza has begun to take on other regional and international dimensions, as the world's largest powers mobilize their forces to support Israel in the face of a defenseless people with several thousand fighters who do not possess advanced weapons. In the same context, Gaza has become the issue of the hostile alliance, which includes Russia, China, Iran, and several of their allied countries. It is a struggle between the axes on several fronts, and the world today stands with differing opinions, just as happened during the Ukrainian war, when positions were divided between supporters of Ukraine and supporters of Russia. These positions are still differing to this day, even though the Gaza war has dimmed the spotlight from the Ukrainian war and the rest of the issues around the world. .

The plan in Gaza is to empty Gaza of its people, whether through extermination or displacement. Unfortunately, Arab support for Gaza is very weak, especially since the largest and most powerful Arab economies are aligned with Israel and cannot condemn it or stand up to it, whether at the level of the official or even popular position, because those regimes will certainly suppress its people.

You don't see Turkey bombing hospitals or killing civilians in Syria and Iraq. Keep in mind Turkey also helped the demolision of ISIS. Terror attacks are caused by terrorists; we can't do anything about that.

Ok, you go in first with a gun and try to sort this out. We will all follow, I promise.

 

Moreover, considering the continued terror attacks in Turkey over the last 10 years, what exactly can we learn from them?

Have you noticed there is no such a thing as international law? UN security council etc, are purely a joke when you have something called "veto". They vetoed the resolution to send food and first aid to Gaza, why? It's a democracy after all, right? Wrong.  The hand which went up to veto that resolution will burn for eternity, if you type on a forum with your fingers to support a child killing machine, those fingers will burn in fire for eternity, if you know the truth and still try to hide it and keep defending satanists, you will burn for eternity ( if you don't repent).

Good thing is that, God has promised to keep such people in the darkness till the day they die, because he knows they will never repent and make up for their past.  This is what's keeping me from interacting with such people,  it helps me to cope with the anger.  So I just chill and wait, it only takes a few decades at most 100 years, then we shall see.😉

Yassir Arafat and Shemon Perez were awarded the noble peace prize in 1994. They didn't resolve anything and thirty years later, as you can see, nothing has changed!

We need to support a clear solution, where all population has its own countriy and no countriy shoots any weapons to a border countriy.
Who is earned nobel peace price to solve it?

Sad to see dear 1miau is so close minded to this case and forgets Gaza belongs to Palestine. I don't think those emojis are meant to escalate anger but he likes emojis. Nonetheless, one opinion does not change the fact that Israel is doing war crimes everyday not only to Hamas but civilians of Palestine.

Peace is very difficult there, yes. Extremists are on both sides and that's why I've also criticized Israeli settlers in the past.


Exactly. Would Israel intend to wipe Palestine off the map, it would have happened long ago because Israel would have the capabilities. But there are some right wing parties in Israel, who would like to do that.
So, advocating for moderates on both sides is our best bet.

And hopefully, the war doesn't escalates further.


I'm sorry if my emojis caused any inconvenience. 
Sometimes, discussions are heated, I didn't want to cause any harm. 

Have a nice day, dear Learn Bitcoin 

Well, all the pictures that I've presented here are drawn by myself or I've copied them from the NYP article.  


Stop deliberately misinterpreting my posts. The link I've given from New York Post is just a summary. Do you think I'm writing here an essay now on this? It's just a waste of time anyway for Hamas asslickers like you, who don't even question what has happened there.
We can present the evidence that the hospital is still intact and not destroyed by an israeli airstrike and we can present evidence that these 470 deaths are completely exagerated in this Hamas propaganda lie.
Hamas is a terrorist organisation which end goal the annihilation of al Israelis is.
They will make shit up, as long as people blindly defend them. Hamas is pure evil and I'm not surprised, considering how they took power in 2006 in Gaza and have destroyed any democracy there.  



Maybe they got it wrong, since everyone except Hamas is safe from being wrong in your opinion.  


I've never written "struck" multiple times because striking means deliberately targeting something. It really looks like an accident.
Once again, stop claiming I would have written something, which I didn't wrote.
Not a really good look to bring such strawmen...  

Nukes?
What's this strawman now?
You know what a nuke would do to the Gaza strip?  


What we can see from the pictures, there's not much damage at all.


So what? Luckily we have many people to point it out and get to the correct version.


Because it's proven wrong?
So, according to you, they should keep up all the wrong videos (like Hamas does)?  

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IDF are not advocating to wipe Palestine off the map. Some right wing settlers and right wing israeli parties are, yes.


That's bullshit and you certainly know this.
There are moderates on both sides which would accept each other's country and there could be peace. Unfortunately, these moderates are not very numerous.
On Palestinian side, these "moderates" (Fatah) where killed by Hamas in 2006 and Hamas took over the Gaza Strip. Any peaceful efforts were wasted due to a power hungry Hamas.


Over the years, it's on both sides. Let's not forget, that 1948, directly after the British withdrawal, Israel was attacked by all arab countries nearby.


Hamas is NOT fighting for freedom, it's fighing to erase Israel. It was written in their founding charta of Hamas.


Nowhere I've blamed "the Palestinians", I've blamed the radical Hamas and their asslickers. Big difference!
Please stop twisting my words.  

That's outright bullshit, so you are an dictator Assad asslicker as well, who bombed his own population deliberately to secure his dictatorship. And that disqualifies any advocacy for your alleged "freedom fighting" disguised as Hamas terrorists. Amazing what we have in this Bitcoin forum here, we'd imagine that dictators are getting the red card shown here, but now, they get applauded. Shame.


Germans were responsible to a large degree allowing Hitler to run amok like he did and right now, these tendencies are growing again.
And I've not labelled all Muslims as violent extremists, I've even written most of them are nice people here in Germany. Stop twisting my words - impossible challenge for you?
I can recommend some Charlie Hebdo for you.  

That's a noble goal but impossible with Hamas or right wing israeli settlers (yes, I critcize both sides).

There a difference between Extremist/Islamist and normal, friendly Muslims. I don't know how often I should write this, I've written it often enough.
We have quite a lot of nice and friendly Muslims in Germany.


Yes, thanks for nothing, have a peaceful day...

That was brutal. I do not support anyone's attacks. Not even from Hamas. Usually, they were attacking Israel as a reaction to Israel's attack except for the attack on 7th October.

I am not aware of their Inside story about who is ruling Gaza at this moment. If that's the case, it's not appreciatable.

You and I both know it's impossible. If I am not wrong, they have only 40,000 members in their organization, and they don't have the special weapons that Israel has. It's kinda ant and Elephant fight. Palestine does not want to wipe of Israel off the map. They want freedom from them.

These conflicts have been happening for ages; Israel built everything with their power and their invasion of the Palestinian people was continuous just like Russia did in Ukraine. People react at first, and then they forget things day by day.

You seem so sure about their goal. I don't think they want to wipe Israel off the map.
But I am not sure. If they have different goals except getting freedom from Israel, it's not acceptable.


I am no one to lecture you. I just wanted to share my POV with you with full respect which I mentioned at the start of my previous post. You seem to take it negatively. I feel like you did not watch the videos I referred to. Those are not any news. I respect you, and I thought you did too. But your usage of those emojis gives a different message dear 1miau.

Alas, you cited NYpost article and said "look, they said that OSINT confirmed that Hamas struck the hospital" and I said, there is no such claim, link leads to GeoConfirmed which I followed closely, and read all the analysis, and nothing there that claims what you claimed, and since you failed to quote the source I now have the right to assume that you did not read anything past that NYpost article.

If you even follow GC you would have seen their last thread where it say


I don't know, you need to ask that official Israeli account where they got the video from, and why they deleted it after being confronted.


But you said Hamas struck it, so make up your mind, which one is it, the hospital is fine or Hamas did hit it?

Also, you seem to confuse missiles with nukes, the hospital is 27,500 square meters large, you could hit one whole block and the rest wouldn't be affected, now whether 500 people were killed or not is up for debate, based on all the evidence I have seen so far, adding that to what I heard from friends in Palestine, I think it's highly exaggerated, I doubt the number is that large, but as in every war, when you launch an offensive you take the blame for the actual and the fake deaths, if a Ukrainian dies from a heart attack during a Russian offensive, you can effectively blame the Russians for it, the same thing applies here, when Hamas attacked Israel they had to bear all responsibility, they can't say that person died in a car accident because he was running away from us, it's common since the attacker pays the bill.


It proves that Israeli officials posted a video dating back to 2022 to "prove that Hamas did it", and then it was deleted, why did they have to have to do that if they were not responsible? why did they need to make an obvious false claim if they were too sure that they were innocent?


What normal people? the account that posted the video and then deleted it were

1- Michael Herzog (Ambassador of Israel to the United States)
2- Israel state account (State of Israel's official Twitter account)

Why do you think they posted the videos and then deleted them? these are not my words, these are Kolina Koltai's words, and the fake video posted by the two accounts can be found online.

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so are the IDF and the Israeli settlers, so if Hamas considered a terrorist organization when the the IDF is not? if we were to take the number of civilians killed by both sides, the IDF would win by an order of magnitude, you could call Hamas a terrorist group that's fine, Hamas could disappear after the war but nothing will change, the resistance ideology of Hamas will live forever, until the Israeli's elect a government that would put an end to all the suffering of the Palestinians, ditch the idea of building their Zionist empire that extends beyond the current occupied lands of Palestine to Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt.

The Palestinians lowered their demands over the decades in order to reach a mutual agreement with the Israelis and put into effect the two-state solution, they are now left with the last bit of land since Israel never honored any of its agreements, when someone has nothing to lose - they would do anything to take revenge, they couldn't care less what you call them or think about them, if you want to help the Israeli people live in peace, then help them get rid of this radical governments, sit on the negation table and have one last serious negotiations to bring peace to the whole region, launching airstrikes, invading Gaza, killing every Hamas member will not end the suffering for both nations.

The collective West has the power to enforce that, but they are not willing to do that, it's almost like they are happy with the conflict since it does achieve some benefits for them.



Killing civilians is unjustified for anyone under any circumstances, fighting for your freedom is a right you were born with.



So now you are going to blame the Palestinians for the new Nazis? the Arabs and the Muslims alike have no problem with Jews (unlike the Nazis), the problem is with the Zionists, very different categories.


As far as I know, most refugees there come from Syria, a country that was living in peace until (the U.S and its allies EU, Saudi, UAE, etc) decided to destroy the country, American troops are still there, making sure the country stays miserable, I think Germany shouldn't be the only one responsible here, you should divide the refugees between all the countries that helped in destroying Syria, and hopefully, this serves as a good less for Germany not to follow U.S steps in wars that bring nothing but tragedy to everyone except the likes of Lockheed Martin.



We don't blame the Germans for what Nazi Germans did, but you guys keep labeling those extremists as Muslims, painting the picture that this is what the average Muslim, when in reality the most affected people by those extremists are the Muslims themselves, in your previous post you mentioned "Allah Bullshit" which is a direct insult to every Muslim reading it.

What I know is, that the vast majority of people around the globe want to live in peace, I live in a Muslim country where most people can't even point Germany on the map, they don't even know the capital city of Germany, all they know is that BMWs are Mercedes are made there, many of them support Germany in the world cup (oh ya not much after the LGPT flag thing lol anyway) but in reality, they just don't care about Germany or any other place in the world, the sad part here is that many people in the West think that we wake up every morning to plan on how to harm you, invade you or anything of that stupid propaganda that the media spreads when in reality, we are busy working and hardly have the time for all that bullshit.

It's also worth mentioning that comments like yours where you tie the word "Islam/Muslim" to every extremist/terrorist will make things only worse when someone in the U.S shoots 10 kids at school, you don't say "A Christian terrorist", so it's only fair that we treat everyone and every religion equally IMO.


Anyway, this will be my last post in this thread, I always try my best to stay away from Politcs but my feelings get the best of me, sorry if I offended anyone here.

Then, looking up the claims of both sides would be a good idea?  


Israel is not an illegal country like Palestine is not an illegal country. Both were "created" from british rule in that region.


Yes, and we know that at least sinc last weak, where they went after several thousand Israeli civilians, except from the rocket launches by Hamas.
Israel has it's "Iron Dome" for a reason.  


To spread their radical ideology.  

Unfortunately, Hamas took power in Gaza 2006/2007 from democratic Fatah and (no surprise) Hamas banned democratic elections. Since then, no democratic vote was hold in Gaza and Hamas started to ramp up their bullshit.


Wipe Israel off the map.  


The problem is that "fighting for freedom" for Hamas means to bomb Israelis to death.  
That's not how peace is achieved.
Of course, the religious israeli right wants to wipe Palestine off the map.
With such folks, peace is impossible.


Different conflict, different issues.


That's what I hope for Palestinians as well.
But that won't be possible with Hamas because peace is no option for Hamas until Israel is wiped off the map.


Hamas is a terrorist group and a very brutal one, like we have seen last week.
Palestinians are normal people, they are NOT a terrorist organisation.
But Hamas is abusing these Palestinians for their own gain. The headquarters of Hamas are located in Qatar and they don't care the slightest about how many Palestinians are killed, their main goal is to wipe Isreal off the map.


No need to lecture me on the issue I'm well aware about this conflict.  

Supporting Hamas means supporting a new Holocaust:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas

The ideology from Hamas has quite a few similarities to that of Adolf Hitler. 

With due respect, I don't know who did this and who did that. But I know that Israel is an illegal country born in 1948 out of nowhere. You say Hamas is a terrorist organization. But do you understand how and why Hamas was born? What do they want? If any country builds an armed organization to get freedom, okay, I will support that organization.

Bangladesh and Pakistan were the same country before 1971. Pakistan has more power with the military and digital weapons, while Bangladesh does not have anything significant. Bangladesh built an organization named Mukti Bahini, and they fought against Pakistan to get freedom from them. Mukti Bahini got weapons from India, and they built some weapons on their own using local resource. India and the Soviet Union supported Bangladesh, while Pakistan had a big supporter, the USA. Do you think Mukti Bahini was a terrorist organization?

All Palestinians want is freedom from Israel and recognition from the world.

Still, If you say that organization is a terrorist group, it's up to you. I am supporting them in front of the world.
I can't stop crying since last night. I am giving you some links to some video clips. Watch them and let me know how you feel.

https://fb.watch/nMecVY-F6e/

https://www.facebook.com/reel/700014658395408

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=857113185820502&id=17841404556886204

https://facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02gQTew8sZGj1wMh5yWyx4TQvEeo8rsWK8U93E6w7vcRqFNTjLUd2LYvLi8XftAnful&id=100093354352663&mibextid=NnVzG8

https://fb.watch/nMen5O4SD2/?mibextid=fgUVKv

https://www.facebook.com/mofa.pna/posts/pfbid028pgKiZ4dtUqJDTdMBiBdFeYnjExrtGPa5381guP1ntggFt5k8foCfQ4odjEwFGdnl?mibextid=YxdKMJ

Well ending there sir, I +1 in this comment of yours even if I don't accept what you said earlier. Peace is important, all humans need peace. No human is more important than other because of race religion skin or anything.

PS: He is the president, so he is the most official.

Like you, I believe these deaths are evil and brutal. Every death is one death too many, I think we can agree here.
That's why peace is so important and an important part of peace is to look up, what really happened there.

Well, if he said so, it must be true. 

You call anything but your own opinion propoganda; AS said in my thread; people live in tents in the yard of the hospital in small spaces. Gaza President said the official number ; you don't need to be agressive with these self-claimed facts. I am really sorry and see huge flaws in your moral. I don't believe you think this is evil like in your last sentence. I live in lands where we watch war every day, I also watched Russia-Ukraine conflict. Are Ukraniens in open-air prison with no where to run like Palestanians? No, this is why Israel's coward air attacks are killing many civilians; get some lesson from Turkey, man up go to ground attack , pick the aggressors up and jail them; not bomb them with civilians in fighter jets!

Yes, such a high number is completely exxagerated according to publicly available evidence.

Take this shot from Times of Gaza (Palestinian source):


https://twitter.com/Timesofgaza/status/1714317733410611712

Anyone who has followed the Russian invasion against Ukraine can tell you, that such a blast
- isn't a normal, guided rocket hit (would have caused a massive crater)
- won't cause 470 dead civilians
- doesn't destroy a hospital at all

As sad as it is, we need to stay calm and review the facts.

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You don't need to come me with your propaganda.
What's happening there is evil enough, no need to abuse it for cheap propaganda.

I haven't claimed anywhere that New York Post is OSINT community.
You clearly didn't read that article and you also didn't bother to check the OSINT community yourself.
Even in the NYP article, two names from the OSINT community are mentioned and cited...
But no, all you can come up with is a strawman "New York Post is no OSINT source" - LOL.


I've just posted one source from all the sources I've read about this. Is it so difficult to look it up or are you afraid to see some Hamas propaganda getting debunked into pieces?  

So, you are saying that there were two explosions happening?
From the pictures we know today, that can't be true.
And like you've seen in the picture in that wired article, the hospital seems to be intact, doesn't it?  


Your strawmen proves exactly what? I can go to Twitter and pull out fake videos from any side so that's proof enough to debunk a claim? This is proving exactly what? - Nothing!
When Russia attacked Ukraine, there have been videos from a chemical explosion in China from years ago, normal Twitter users are not the OSINT community. They will re-post anything for clicks.
Even New York Post mentioned the OSINT researchers from GeoConfirmed. There are far more commenting on the incident, like Nathan Ruser or Oliver Alexander commented on this as well.
It's like Bitcoin buyer and Bitcoin developer.

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Hamas is a terrorist organization and everyone is suffering from them. Not just Israelis, people from Palestine as well.

Believe me, I have defended the palestinian struggle even in our German section in our forum in 2022, especially criticizing the illegal israeli settler practices. I really hope for peace in that region, which is very difficult unfortunately. I was even accused to be pro Hamas.  
So, you see, I'm considering both sides here.
But what these Hamas terrorists did there, murdering thousands of israeli civilians in such a brutal way, is not acceptable at all. I don't need to elaborate this.
The fact, that we now have in Germany antisemitic rallies from "pro Palestine" (pro Hamas) folks, who are shouting "down with Israel" or "gas the jews" in GERMANY, is not acceptable. Houses, where Jews are living, were marked like in Hitler's 3rd reich. This is not acceptable.


I know this very well.


Your guess couldn't be more uneducated on the matter because as I've said I have defended the cause of Palestine previously in the forum.
I know that the extremist far right in Israel will not hesitate to erase Palestine, like the radical Hamas wants to erase Israel. We won't get peace with such folks.


Looks like you are completely unaware that I've read tons of this, from Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, German outlets and even Alex Gladstein's article about Bitcoin and Palestine.


Unfortunately, international law applies and refeugee crisis is a very hot topic in Germany right now. Yes, we need changes but when we make changes there, someone will be unhappy instead.


As I've said, the radical folks trying to force Islam onto European countries are very few. But they are existing and they won't refrain from suicide bombing our societey to death. I'm not interested to get an escalation, where more and more people are radicalized due to political islam. We have tons of nice Muslims in Germany, they don't make any issue at all, the problem are the radicalized ones and the past days have shown that we need to take it seriously. Like you, I'm also for a peaceful society.  

@mikeywith; the person @1miau and I are also talking the same thing in my thread; he claims false allegations and even tell that no hospital was even bombed and the 470 civilians dead is a fake propoganda of Hamas. I don't even know if this is worth discussing anymore.

@1miau I want you to remember this image every day.

Since when did NYpost become  "Open Source Intelligence" ? where is your OSINT source?


You used the New York Post as your "fact reference" which is funny, where is your source of all the info you posted above? if you are going to quote another Western legacy media then spare yourself the effort.

in fact:


https://www.wired.com/story/al-ahli-baptist-hospital-explosion-disinformation-osint/


Kolina Koltai a senior researcher at open source intelligence (OSINT) Bellingcat said in response to the IDF putting that fake video and then deleting it:


She also mentioned in response to some Israeli fake news


So I ask again, where is your OSINT resource that confirms that the hospital was attacked by Hamas? if your source claims that it wasn't an airstrike conducted by a fighter jet, it doesn't change anything, your source needs to prove that Hamas was indeed the one who launched it, it's common since the attacker bares all responsibility unless proven otherwise.


Hamas is a political movement, I couldn't care less what they say or do, just like Netanyahu's government, they would use everything at their disposal to win, and that includes propaganda, it's perfectly normal to dislike or a hate a political party including this army and leader, but what you doing now is hating on all the civilians who have nothing to do with Hamas.

what I care about is the lives of the innocent Palestine people who have been suffering since the Zionist state took place back in 1948, the radical government and settlers have put the lives of both Palestinians and Israelis at stake, you keep mentioning Hamas as if they are superpower who control the whole area, you don't seem to know that they don't extend past Gaza, but despite them not having a foot in the West Bank, Israel did not stop the killing of the Palestinians in the west bank.

You seem to be pretty misinformed, about the religious aspect in the area, Israel is fighting both Muslims and Christians, it's part of the Zionist doctrine which you don't seem to understand, it's Zionist (God's chosen people according to them) vs everyone.

Are you aware that ALL human rights organizations state that Israel committed war crimes and has been brutal to the Palestinians for decades? and that includes ALL Israeli human rights organizations.

B'Tselem one of the largest human rights organizations based of Jerusalem mentioned this:

2,260 children were killed by the IDF and the settlers from 2000 to date, 519 of them were way too far from Gaza in the west bank where Hamas does not exist, 1,741 minors in Gaza were killed by the IDF vs 4 Israeli minors

You would find a lot of interesting reads there such as "Top Israeli officials criminally liable for knowingly ordering strike expected to harm civilians, including children, in the Gaza Strip"


All Israeli human rights organizations will tell you the same thing about the brutality of the IDF and the settlers, if you are not satisfied with Israeli resources you can turn to amnesty which also states



But no, this is all Hamas propaganda, they control the Israeli and international human rights originations to spread fake news.



Hard to tell to be honest.


If you are annoyed by a certain group of people regardless of their religion or background, don't let them into your country, it's as simple as that to a superpower country like Germany, unfortunately, it wasn't the case for the weak Palestinians back in 1948 since no matter how hard they tried to stop the Zionist from taking their land -- they couldn't.  


So why does this have to be in the order you mentioned, why can't it be EU, USA, and then Israel for example  , I find it hard to believe that a country with 2% the GDP of the U.S, a small population of 10 million with little to no natural resources is standing in the way of the "extremist organizations" who plan to take down the EU and the USA, it's also worth mentioning that Israel as a state only come to existence roughly 70 years ago, so who was protecting the world from the "extremist organizations" back then? we know for sure it wasn't the Jews so who was it?  I am not trolling really, I just don't have what it takes to understand arguments with flawed logic.

How about checking sources first, instead of just trusting any claims from Hamas?  
Because it turned out that the rocket was fired by Hamas itself and it crashed near the hospital, like the OSINT (Open Source Intelligence) community has confirmed:



That caused the explosion at a parking lot NEAR the hospital, not a rocket from Israel allegedly flying IN the hopsital.  
There are even more irregularities in statements from Hamas:
- Hamas can't show any pictures of the alleged 500 dead civilians = it's very likely another lie from Hamas because if many people were killed, Hamas would spread the propaganda all over the place. But there are no pictures
- There are no rocket craters, as usual for rocket targets, another sign that a Hamas rocket misfired shortly after being launched near the hospital

It's summarized here, already reviewed by the OSINT community:  
https://nypost.com/2023/10/18/all-of-the-evidence-that-shows-hamas-was-responsible-for-hospital-explosion/

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Sure, 3000 deaths, like the 500 deaths from the hospital, LOL.  
Hamas has lost all credibility, therefore these numbers are 100% meaningless.
If someone dies, ask Hamas, why Hamas
- has incited the recent violence due to their massacre against israeli civilians, do you condem this?
- is using civilians as human shields to fabricate propaganda about deaths, while Hamas could have protected them

Hamas should come out and face Israel's army face to face. Of course Hamas won't do that because Hamas is scum hiding behind civilians.

---

Turned out that the propaganda was from Hamas, trying to incite more hate in this ongoing conflict.
It's not just not helpful at all, it's also disgusting. A sane and educated person will check first, what happened and PROVE his claims. I want PROOF, not UNPROVEN accusations.
And even then, no one from these islamic extremists will apologize that the rocket was from Hamas, not from Israel.
All the extremist pawns (we have quite a bunch of the in Germany), will not apologize for spreading UNPROVEN lies to incite more hate.


It would be nice to get some facts instead of unproven speculations that. Because it turned out that your claim aged like milk.  
Of course, spreading hate is much easier for Hamas apologists that to face the truth.
And no, the only ones who are brainwashed here are the vast majority of Hamas apologists, for parroting any unproven pro Hamas propaganda...

Stop getting brainwashed from Hamas propaganda and find out, what really happened, backed up by proof.  

I'm a very tolerant person but there's no doubt that all these Hamas supporters are not compatible with our German society. There's a small, extremist bunch, they reject any German societey norms. They behave like extremists and they are extremists.
They are trying to ignore the duty, that if you come to Germany, get offered a good social security, a good living standard, all the things, Germany has achieved, they need to be friendly and they need to accept the German culture. But instead, they are trying to reverse our German culture and engage in radical islamist behaviour.
They force their religious believs on others and if someone dares to criticize it, the critics will be massacred.
They don't accept the German culture and if we say them to do so, they will cause a massacre.
If their religion is critized, they will bomb the shit out of normal EU people.
They are fanatic.

Yes, after Israel is wiped off the map, which is the goal by extremist organizations like Hamas or Israel etc., EU and USA will be next.
We, in the west, are well advised to send this Hamas supporting scum right away, where it came from. There, these extremists can bomb themselves about their Allah bullshit, as it pleases them.
But not here in Germany.  

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You mean the hypocrisy of Hamas, when Hamas needs to spread fake propaganda, when in reality, the rocket near the hospital came from Hamas?
And, why is Hamas firing rockets near the hospital?  
Maybe using civilians as human shields again?
Nah, Hamas are the good guys...  

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Hamas is disgusting scum and pawns like we have quite a few here on Bitcointalk are fooled too easily into spreading such disgusting Hamas propaganda.
Like now, all the news are out, where everyone claimed, Israel bombed a hospital and killed 500 people but the rocket was fired by Hamas.



Question all the propaganda, wait if any claims from any side are PROVEN, check it yourself and stop spreading UNPROVEN propaganda. Hamas is a terrorist organization and tries to incite a mayor war, where Hisbollah, the terrorist regime in Iran and some other islamist idiots will try to incite a big war.
We don't need such crap.

All humans good, never talk bad about others OK?

When you spend years studying “international law,” deterrent means, and principles in waging wars, then you find a question in your exams that requires you to answer that international law criminalizes and punishes the violator who violates military values and violates international law and violates its general principles. Then you turn on the TV to see a force targeting a hospital containing civilians and doctors?? Where is the international law they taught us? And why do we even study it? Where are the deterrent means?

I can say with complete conviction that what is known as “international law” is the biggest lie known to human history and that there may not be anything comparable to it in the future.

The hypocrisy of the West, their use of definitions and concepts only when things are going in their favor, is disgusting.

Human rights are only for their own people. War crimes are only crimes if committed against them.

There is no international law, there is only "power" in this world if you are strong enough to do whatever you want -- you will always get away with it, the human rights and all the rest of it are just pure propaganda to feed the average joe.

As for the hospital blast, the Western media already has the plan to justify that given that the majority of their audiences are brainwashed, they could claim that this was done by Hamas on purpose or by mistake, they could also claim that Hamas was hiding rockets under that patients' beds, and those folks will happily accept the death of all those civilians and continue to send their hard-earned money in form of taxes to Israel because somehow, they think that if Israel is gone, the next target will be their country, and surprisingly this is common western propaganda, because the Americans think the U.S will be next after Israel, and so do the French and the British and everyone else who supports Israel, it's like the Palestinians have some secret nuclear weapon which will deploy to erase the whole world and the only thing standing in the way of that magical bottom is Israel.

A few hours ago, the Israeli Defense Forces committed a new massacre in the Gaza Strip that exceeded all expectations. The forces bombed a hospital housing civilians fleeing the bombing, in addition to those injured as a result of the bombings. The targeting of the hospital left more than 600 dead, and the hospital administration confirmed that all of them were civilians.
According to the latest statistics, the death toll as a result of the continuous bombing for 12 days exceeded 3,000, in addition to an unspecified number of wounded and the complete destruction of the infrastructure of the entire northern Gaza Strip, which is already besieged, while preventing the entry of food and medical aid through all crossings leading to the Gaza Strip.

Regardless of whether you support the Palestinian right or support Israel, I cannot imagine a rational person who would question the horror of what is happening to more than two million citizens in front of the eyes of the world. You may have been affected by the death of 200 Israelis after the Hamas attack last October 7, but in your opinion, is it permissible to react in this barbaric way? Hamas did not kill children or attack hospitals, and no matter how strong it is, it cannot reach the size of the military might of a force like Israel, which is supported by the most powerful armies in the world. Who benefits from killing more than a thousand children and destroying hospitals and shelters?

Believe me, I am unable to even formulate the appropriate expressions to describe what I feel. I am no longer as surprised by what Israel does as I am by the position of countries, entities, and even companies.
Can someone explain to me what is the benefit of international law that imposes certain conditions, even in cases of war, that hospitals and shelter centers should not be targeted and the way for humanitarian crossings should be opened? Why does everyone view the American veto as a normal step, while the Security Council and the entire United Nations agree to condemn what is happening? Can a rational person explain to me what is the benefit of establishing international law in light of the existence of what is called the right of veto? Then why do those with the veto insist on remaining within the United Nations and international legitimacy if they constantly overturn its decisions that agree with them? How can laws be effectively activated under the veto?