sharing "swappable" batteries between a car vs an e-bike is not going to be a thing. because the whole chassis design of a car is completely different to a bike.. the battery packs of a car cant just be chucked onto a bike
however
what we will see is yes HGV will have their batteries unplugged from the truck unloaded and a charged battery put in.
more like a F-1 pit stop rather then a petrol station
where the 'pit-stop" then charges the removed battery to then give to another HGV customer the next day.
where they have a garage/warehouse charging many batteries overnight
instead of petrol pump stations, you will see warehouse and loading bays.. at truck stops and distribution centres, rather than standard "gas station" locations
...
things like cars and bikes can be home charged or charged at shopping mall car parks by just plugging in an electric plug while people do other daily activities, whilst they charge
you will not see "gas station" location activity in the future. more so mall carpark charging scenario and home charging
things like private transport. public transport(buses/taxis)
taxi companies/bus companies would have their own network of outlets for their drivers to pit-stop at where they too would have their own network of pit stops in different towns
yes taxi's and buses would need a re-design. but hey the bus/taxi companies change vehicle design as part of business anyway
Topic: Geely is rolling out swap stations for heavy duty EVs like cement mixers (Read 126 times)
November 29, 2022, 06:15:35 AM
November 29, 2022, 04:20:29 AM
Quite expected, and one of the most logical decisions! As far as I remember, a few years ago Tesla voiced the same plans regarding both passenger cars, the next generations, and cargo tractors.
Given the fact that completely new types of batteries are on the way, such a cycle will be an ideal solution for all occasions - you arrived, did not have time to drink a cup of coffee, you already have a "full tank". There is no replacement station - the power grid will help you, connect, charge the "supercapacitor", you will have time to drink coffee and eat a croissant
Given the fact that completely new types of batteries are on the way, such a cycle will be an ideal solution for all occasions - you arrived, did not have time to drink a cup of coffee, you already have a "full tank". There is no replacement station - the power grid will help you, connect, charge the "supercapacitor", you will have time to drink coffee and eat a croissant
November 27, 2022, 12:22:55 AM
The limiting factor for EV's are the batteries. Not only are they less efficient than a lot of gasoline powered cars, the raw materials for them are incredibly resource intensive to obtain: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8390110/
Nickel and lithium are not easy to come by. The metric tons of materials that need to be mined in order to produce one EV battery is extraordinarily high. Of course, mining operations are fossil fuel based and will be for the foreseeable future, so those EV batteries are creating a lot of pollution merely for creation.
Maintenance, upkeep, and charging are all fossil fuel based. EV's are not the answer.
Nickel and lithium are not easy to come by. The metric tons of materials that need to be mined in order to produce one EV battery is extraordinarily high. Of course, mining operations are fossil fuel based and will be for the foreseeable future, so those EV batteries are creating a lot of pollution merely for creation.
Maintenance, upkeep, and charging are all fossil fuel based. EV's are not the answer.
November 26, 2022, 06:39:49 PM
I missed this piece, which is a better source for swappable batteries in EVs and appliances.
Honda appears to have a good plan for this which they are deploying.
While the plan is nothing new. Its essentially identical to past efforts to deploy hydrogen power in a modularized format which is standardized across vehicles and appliances. As well as virtually identical to elements of the propane industry which are standardized and automated.
It could offer them a distinct advantage. But I don't know that it would be exclusive or proprietary enough to be a long term advantage.
Quote
Honda Sees a Future Where Cars, Bikes, Mowers Share Swappable Batteries
An environment where single-purpose batteries are replaced with swappable, sharable ones would benefit consumers and manufacturers alike.
During an interview with Honda CEO Toshihiro Mibe and electrification boss Shinji Aoyama in Tokyo, the executives responsible for steering the automaker through these changing times explained to me that while building EVs is important, the ultimate goal is reaching carbon neutrality by 2050. In order to do this, electric, hydrogen fuel cell, and even hybrid eVTOL vehicles must be further developed to penetrate each corner of the transportation sector. One of the more interesting concepts we discussed, however, was creating an environment where various types of vehicles shared a common battery pack. From cars to scooters, mowers, and even houses, doing away with single-purpose batteries would be a win-win for consumers and Honda alike.
Some of this hardware already exists, and it's dubbed the "Honda Mobile Power Pack e" and "Power Pack Exchanger e." The mobile lithium-ion power pack is a carry-on battery similar to what we use now to charge our devices on the go or even jumpstart a car—just bigger and heavier. A Honda Mobile Power Pack e currently weighs about 20 pounds and provides up to 1.3Wh. The power pack exchanger is a sort of vending machine where the power packs can be recharged, stored, and dispensed to users. That's the commercial solution, at least. There's a little-known residential solution Honda is working on that takes the same concept but downsizes it to work for a home. It fits four mobile packs instead of 12, and it can also recharge the mobile units via solar power should the home be equipped for it.
Image link: https://i.ibb.co/t3bHt49/battery-swap.jpg
The premise is simple, and I'll use myself as an example: I have a lawnmower, a snowblower, a dirtbike, and a small sedan. (Yes, the latter two are Hondas.) While I drive my Civic every day, I don't ride my bike nor use my blower or mower nearly as often. In fact, I hardly ever do. This concept would allow me to own one set of batteries that I can share and swap among all of my Honda machines. Why have a purpose-built battery for my mower getting depleted all winter when I could be using that same power source for my snowblower? Likewise, use the snowblower's battery for my mower during the summer, when I could also borrow it to run my dirtbike.
When you apply this concept to a vehicle used for commuting it makes even more sense. It'd be very easy to remove the batteries of your vehicle and recharge them overnight in the pack exchanger—similar to how you'd charge an EV overnight nowadays. The biggest difference here is that if you wake up in the morning and it's a gorgeous day out, you could skip the car ride and use the batteries for your motorcycle instead. Storming? Plop them into your car and leave the bike at home. Even better yet, should the power go out on your block, the exchanger can use the power packs' power to feed it back into the house and provide electricity for "the average Japanese home," I was told. Pretty convenient, even if that could only power an average American studio apartment for now.
According to a presentation I was given at Honda's R&D facility in Tochigi, Japan, a large three-wheeled scooter could travel nearly 100 miles with two fully charged packs. No other range estimates were given for larger vehicles, though in the future these packs could also be used for ATVs, watercraft, and other rides. Engineers also demoed a Honda Power Pod e, which is essentially an electric generator. While still in the prototype stage, this would be a convenient power solution for campers or work crews who typically venture out off the grid.
Swappable batteries also open up various other opportunities; like lending a helping hand. Should you encounter a stranded motorist with a compatible vehicle, you could share a power pack with them so they can make it to their destination. Maybe a little far-fetched since you probably won't want to give your pricey battery away, but, hey, it's a possibility.
Lastly, there's the manufacturing aspect of this battery/charger environment. When you have a variety of vehicles that run on the same type of battery pack, you drastically reduce the time, money, and effort that's spent on manufacturing single-purpose batteries. It's the same concept as having a billion devices run on AA or AAA batteries. Why spend millions and thousands of man-hours engineering a battery that only works on one type of device, when it could work on hundreds?
Image link: https://i.ibb.co/x6x1wW2/honda1.jpg
Image link: https://i.ibb.co/RPBGdpy/honda2.jpg
Image link: https://i.ibb.co/3NSfNWm/honda3.jpg
Honda has already rolled out one of these exchangers in Tokyo, where subscribers can scan their RFID tags to unlock battery packs for their scooters. Other companies are already taking similar approaches in Taiwan, and another startup is said to be bringing a similar solution for tuk-tuk taxis in India.
It goes without saying that this application needs to be further developed before it can be rolled out in a market like the United States. We drive longer distances, favor larger vehicles, and our overall energy consumption is radically different than most other countries. Replicating this concept with solid-state batteries could certainly push it closer to reality. So while that solution isn't here now, I believe this concept of swappable batters makes a lot of sense.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/honda-sees-a-future-where-cars-bikes-mowers-share-swappable-batteries
An environment where single-purpose batteries are replaced with swappable, sharable ones would benefit consumers and manufacturers alike.
During an interview with Honda CEO Toshihiro Mibe and electrification boss Shinji Aoyama in Tokyo, the executives responsible for steering the automaker through these changing times explained to me that while building EVs is important, the ultimate goal is reaching carbon neutrality by 2050. In order to do this, electric, hydrogen fuel cell, and even hybrid eVTOL vehicles must be further developed to penetrate each corner of the transportation sector. One of the more interesting concepts we discussed, however, was creating an environment where various types of vehicles shared a common battery pack. From cars to scooters, mowers, and even houses, doing away with single-purpose batteries would be a win-win for consumers and Honda alike.
Some of this hardware already exists, and it's dubbed the "Honda Mobile Power Pack e" and "Power Pack Exchanger e." The mobile lithium-ion power pack is a carry-on battery similar to what we use now to charge our devices on the go or even jumpstart a car—just bigger and heavier. A Honda Mobile Power Pack e currently weighs about 20 pounds and provides up to 1.3Wh. The power pack exchanger is a sort of vending machine where the power packs can be recharged, stored, and dispensed to users. That's the commercial solution, at least. There's a little-known residential solution Honda is working on that takes the same concept but downsizes it to work for a home. It fits four mobile packs instead of 12, and it can also recharge the mobile units via solar power should the home be equipped for it.
Image link: https://i.ibb.co/t3bHt49/battery-swap.jpg
The premise is simple, and I'll use myself as an example: I have a lawnmower, a snowblower, a dirtbike, and a small sedan. (Yes, the latter two are Hondas.) While I drive my Civic every day, I don't ride my bike nor use my blower or mower nearly as often. In fact, I hardly ever do. This concept would allow me to own one set of batteries that I can share and swap among all of my Honda machines. Why have a purpose-built battery for my mower getting depleted all winter when I could be using that same power source for my snowblower? Likewise, use the snowblower's battery for my mower during the summer, when I could also borrow it to run my dirtbike.
When you apply this concept to a vehicle used for commuting it makes even more sense. It'd be very easy to remove the batteries of your vehicle and recharge them overnight in the pack exchanger—similar to how you'd charge an EV overnight nowadays. The biggest difference here is that if you wake up in the morning and it's a gorgeous day out, you could skip the car ride and use the batteries for your motorcycle instead. Storming? Plop them into your car and leave the bike at home. Even better yet, should the power go out on your block, the exchanger can use the power packs' power to feed it back into the house and provide electricity for "the average Japanese home," I was told. Pretty convenient, even if that could only power an average American studio apartment for now.
According to a presentation I was given at Honda's R&D facility in Tochigi, Japan, a large three-wheeled scooter could travel nearly 100 miles with two fully charged packs. No other range estimates were given for larger vehicles, though in the future these packs could also be used for ATVs, watercraft, and other rides. Engineers also demoed a Honda Power Pod e, which is essentially an electric generator. While still in the prototype stage, this would be a convenient power solution for campers or work crews who typically venture out off the grid.
Swappable batteries also open up various other opportunities; like lending a helping hand. Should you encounter a stranded motorist with a compatible vehicle, you could share a power pack with them so they can make it to their destination. Maybe a little far-fetched since you probably won't want to give your pricey battery away, but, hey, it's a possibility.
Lastly, there's the manufacturing aspect of this battery/charger environment. When you have a variety of vehicles that run on the same type of battery pack, you drastically reduce the time, money, and effort that's spent on manufacturing single-purpose batteries. It's the same concept as having a billion devices run on AA or AAA batteries. Why spend millions and thousands of man-hours engineering a battery that only works on one type of device, when it could work on hundreds?
Image link: https://i.ibb.co/x6x1wW2/honda1.jpg
Image link: https://i.ibb.co/RPBGdpy/honda2.jpg
Image link: https://i.ibb.co/3NSfNWm/honda3.jpg
Honda has already rolled out one of these exchangers in Tokyo, where subscribers can scan their RFID tags to unlock battery packs for their scooters. Other companies are already taking similar approaches in Taiwan, and another startup is said to be bringing a similar solution for tuk-tuk taxis in India.
It goes without saying that this application needs to be further developed before it can be rolled out in a market like the United States. We drive longer distances, favor larger vehicles, and our overall energy consumption is radically different than most other countries. Replicating this concept with solid-state batteries could certainly push it closer to reality. So while that solution isn't here now, I believe this concept of swappable batters makes a lot of sense.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/honda-sees-a-future-where-cars-bikes-mowers-share-swappable-batteries
Honda appears to have a good plan for this which they are deploying.
While the plan is nothing new. Its essentially identical to past efforts to deploy hydrogen power in a modularized format which is standardized across vehicles and appliances. As well as virtually identical to elements of the propane industry which are standardized and automated.
It could offer them a distinct advantage. But I don't know that it would be exclusive or proprietary enough to be a long term advantage.
November 26, 2022, 05:37:24 AM
The whole problem is what will be done with these batteries after ten or twenty years, will they be thrown away like old electronics? Then we will have doubled the rate of waste in an insane way, and with the absence of mechanisms to recover this waste, the limited resources will often decrease and the environmental disasters will increase because of this waste.
I think the best solution is to find a way to make fast charging of the batteries possible, just like filling the fuel tank.
I think the best solution is to find a way to make fast charging of the batteries possible, just like filling the fuel tank.
November 25, 2022, 07:30:44 PM
Very impressive, could be highly efficent if its fast, safe and easy to do. The ideal usage of batteries is not 100% to 0% but to use the middle section of recharging it, doing so will increase the battery life and be high utility and return for such an enterprise. Happy to here if they are improving efficiency in this way, I did not think HGV and big heavy goods would a problem solved near term despite the Tesla promises many truckers have pointed out the possible losses to drivers if refueling is awkward in any way.
November 25, 2022, 07:13:16 PM
but the question is, what will they even do with the battery packs that are swapped out? Recycle it or refurbish it to repurpose?
I think they recharge them. And place them back in service.
Batteries that massive are likely too non trivial to produce for them to be single use.
November 25, 2022, 06:59:29 PM
I'm planning to buy out a Geely Okavango because of how good and how cheap it is compared to other hybrids and EVs that are coming out of the market. I do not know that they also have cement mixers as and other heavy machineries that are electric, and this might be a game changer in the said industry because of how cheap it could be to run and maintain such vehicles that are always constantly under heavy load. At the least, Geely is trying to answer that question of the environmental-friendliness of electric vehicles, but the question is, what will they even do with the battery packs that are swapped out? Recycle it or refurbish it to repurpose?
November 25, 2022, 05:58:33 PM
Quote
Chinese multinational automotive company, Geely, has shared a recent update from its Technology Group subsidiary showing battery swap capabilities integrated into what it calls Heavy Goods Vehicles (HGVs). The battery swap stations operate under the same concept as passenger EVs, but use a different swap method without having to lift the hefty construction vehicles.
Zhejiang Geely Holding Group Co., Ltd, better known as Geely, is a multinational automotive company based in China with connectiosn to several other OEMs around the globe. For example, Geely owns a large majority of Volvo Cars and just over 50% of Polestar. Same goes for Lotus.
It also completely owns its own brands under various subsidiaries like Zeekr, Maple, and Farizon Auto which is working to deliver its “Homtruck” electric semi globally in 2024 – not to mention its own marque of vehicles from Geely Auto.
Last year, the company’s subsidiary, Geely Technology Group was touting battery-swap technology in China designed specifically for rideshare vehicles that could replace an EV battery pack in one minute.
According to Geely’s latest update, its not able to hit those battery swap speeds yet, but it is able to do so one a much larger (and a much, much heavier) scale.
Image link: https://i.ibb.co/C2ZNy1j/ev-swap-station.gif
Geely shares stations that can swap 3.2 ton battery packs
Geely recently shared news of the HGV swaps in its media center on behalf of the Technology Group. With this swap technology, Geely hopes to bring more sustainability to heavier commercial vehicles like cement mixers and construction trucks.
While the trucks do not appear much different from the outside, a digital visit to the swap station tells a unique story. Behind the driver’s cabin sits large black box containing the battery cells and housing for easier access to swap.
Geely shared that the cement mixers seen above currently use a battery that can store up to 280 kWh of power, delivering around 190 km (118 miles) of range while simultaneously powering other vehicle functions, such as spinning the mixing drum.
HGVs weight a lot more than the passenger EVs Geely is used to, especially if they’re carrying wet cement – so you’re not going to lift a 31-ton truck to get a battery pack out of the bottom. In this case, Geely had to innovate, hence the battery placement behind the driver cab.
Drivers can pull in and park using designated wheel guides to ensure perfect alignment, then scan a QR code to begin the completely automated process. As you can see in the gif above, a crane housed within the swap station comes down and hoists the 3.2-ton battery up and into the battery warehouse, then swaps it out with a fresh one.
Geely states that the entire process takes five minutes from start to finish, comparable to a trip to the gas pump (but arguably a helluva lot less expensive). $5 gets drivers about 100 km (62 miles) of all-electric range.
Geely’s swap stations take up about 200 square feet and can be constructed quickly. They can also be rigged with solar panels to provide clean energy to some of the station’s operations.
While the jury may still be out on the potential of battery swaps, the technology continues to develop and expand, especially in China – adding the capabilities to large commercial vehicles that usually only make short trips only adds to the cause.
https://electrek.co/2022/03/15/geely-is-rolling-out-swap-stations-for-heavy-duty-evs-like-cement-mixers-housing-three-ton-battery-packs/
Zhejiang Geely Holding Group Co., Ltd, better known as Geely, is a multinational automotive company based in China with connectiosn to several other OEMs around the globe. For example, Geely owns a large majority of Volvo Cars and just over 50% of Polestar. Same goes for Lotus.
It also completely owns its own brands under various subsidiaries like Zeekr, Maple, and Farizon Auto which is working to deliver its “Homtruck” electric semi globally in 2024 – not to mention its own marque of vehicles from Geely Auto.
Last year, the company’s subsidiary, Geely Technology Group was touting battery-swap technology in China designed specifically for rideshare vehicles that could replace an EV battery pack in one minute.
According to Geely’s latest update, its not able to hit those battery swap speeds yet, but it is able to do so one a much larger (and a much, much heavier) scale.
Image link: https://i.ibb.co/C2ZNy1j/ev-swap-station.gif
Geely shares stations that can swap 3.2 ton battery packs
Geely recently shared news of the HGV swaps in its media center on behalf of the Technology Group. With this swap technology, Geely hopes to bring more sustainability to heavier commercial vehicles like cement mixers and construction trucks.
While the trucks do not appear much different from the outside, a digital visit to the swap station tells a unique story. Behind the driver’s cabin sits large black box containing the battery cells and housing for easier access to swap.
Geely shared that the cement mixers seen above currently use a battery that can store up to 280 kWh of power, delivering around 190 km (118 miles) of range while simultaneously powering other vehicle functions, such as spinning the mixing drum.
HGVs weight a lot more than the passenger EVs Geely is used to, especially if they’re carrying wet cement – so you’re not going to lift a 31-ton truck to get a battery pack out of the bottom. In this case, Geely had to innovate, hence the battery placement behind the driver cab.
Drivers can pull in and park using designated wheel guides to ensure perfect alignment, then scan a QR code to begin the completely automated process. As you can see in the gif above, a crane housed within the swap station comes down and hoists the 3.2-ton battery up and into the battery warehouse, then swaps it out with a fresh one.
Geely states that the entire process takes five minutes from start to finish, comparable to a trip to the gas pump (but arguably a helluva lot less expensive). $5 gets drivers about 100 km (62 miles) of all-electric range.
Geely’s swap stations take up about 200 square feet and can be constructed quickly. They can also be rigged with solar panels to provide clean energy to some of the station’s operations.
While the jury may still be out on the potential of battery swaps, the technology continues to develop and expand, especially in China – adding the capabilities to large commercial vehicles that usually only make short trips only adds to the cause.
https://electrek.co/2022/03/15/geely-is-rolling-out-swap-stations-for-heavy-duty-evs-like-cement-mixers-housing-three-ton-battery-packs/
....
The discharged battery is removed and replaced with a plug and play battery that is fully charged. The way electric power tools do. Perhaps this is the feature EV cars and trucks have been searching for?
It would require a complete redesign of current EVs to implement this technology. The battery of an EV is usually located at the bottom floor of the car to give it a lower center of gravity and better cornering characteristics. EV batteries are also typically reinforced to some degree and in many cases become an integral structural support member of the chassis. All of which could make it more difficult to remove the battery from an EV and replace it with another one.
The basic design of EVs would have to change dramatically to accommodate this type of feature. Performance of vehicles, in terms of acceleration, top speed and overall range, might also be compromised by the transition.
Could they be on to something here. What does everyone think.
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