Topic: Gemini's launch is a failure, so is bitcoin (Read 5526 times)

Sure. Buying and selling of bitcointalk accounts probably constitutes the bulk of the Bitcoin economy (other than DNM stuff, that is).  Here's a nice trusted senior account

Are we even allowed to have multiple accounts on this site?

Lolwut?
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You just created a new troll account to backup youre own FUD thread...

That's what I say about lotto tickets.

Good post, this is what I say even to the trolls, bears & haters - even if you doubt bitcoin, think it'll fail or even just troll on here - keep 1 bitcoin in cold storage, even 1 could make you a very good profit one day.

It's called a manipulation. This is pretty common and you can see it in a stock markets, forex markets, etc.

The only thing with Bitcoin is that this is done online, so every idiot that lives in his mom's basement can create a profile and write whatever comes to his mind. Unfortunately it's like this and we can't do much to prevent this!

what is this forum becomming these days.... fud spammers taking al the space you need to crawl trough to read the interresting treds?
shouldn't we burn this kind of treads and posters to ground or something?

trying people make believe something is bad or a failure, by fudding it all over  the place to later on buy it at cheaper price with the intend to sell at higher price in the future... that's scam, wright?

It was very easy to sign up with Gemini, no ass-rimming like MtGox, GHash or other shady exchanges, just the normal questions and then they ask your questions that only you'd know. There was NO sending copies of your id's. I'm sold on Gemini.

You are thinking to much in a one way direction here. Bitcoin will somewhere be more regulated, somewhere less regulated. This just depends on the country and on the laws in this country. Even within a country you have different levels of regulations, look at NY and the rest of the US.

Nothing alarming here. If a country like US won't let you fart without them knowing, it's a bit hard to expect that they will give all the freedom and liberty to Bitcoin.

Just my 2 cents though!

This. We need more legal and safe options for businesses and investors to join the market.

Also, lack of regulation may be wanted by the early adopters, but the majority of people don't care the least about this.

Ask 100 people on the street what they think of centralized currencies.

I bet 100 people will either say "Whut?" or "Don't care". The decentralizers are a minority.

There is a difference between regulating the usage of the currency and regulating money changers who trade in and exchange the currency. Personally I welcome regulations so legitimate businesses will be able to offer services to the big money types who wouldn't ever feel safe depositing their wealth in some shady East European exchange.

Bitcoin is already a success. VC money keeps comming in, usage keeps increase, price has been stable and we are seeing a healthy uptrend. Your life is a failure if you aren't yet involved in Bitcoin and don't own at least one. This is a fact that we might as well deal with it. Stop trying to fight destiny man, just hop on the winning train.

Was really counting on Big Money and Government Regulations to bail us out. Beginning to look like we might've sold out for nothing tho.
Oh well...

You might be listened to if you weren't so fucking predictable and actually capable of flexible thought.

Call me a commie pinko if you like but I don't think lack of regulation has worked out too well for plenty of buyers and sellers of Bitcoin. If the early days hadn't been made up of hostile autistic scumbags it might have worked out differently but it's natural for them to gravitate towards such a thing.

I remember reading many old threads where people talked about regulation being inevitable the more mainstream BTC becomes. So it's not completely unexpected.

You're forgetting that one of the main reasons people wanted bit coin is because they don't want regulation. Now that that's out of the window for a possibility,  nobody is really interested anymore so there will not be larger amounts of money.

I expect the exchange to file for bankruptcy within 6 months.

Very short sighted of them indeed...

This exchange will be flying miles above the others in a matter of months.

The reason will be that it actually is regulated and people will be able to trust them with larger amounts of money.

Probably because we haven't seen a huge pump to at least $315, just like we did when the Coinbase was announced!

because apparently they think that a new exchange that has still not the same volume as okcoin, can only be considered a big fail

they are likely the same people that bitcoin should have been a successful already, or it is doomed to fail

More how it's put together with other words, which is '[you] knowing that 99% of the trades aren't fake.'
Do you know that 99% aren't fake?
The only things standing between Anon and 99% wash trade & ...other fun stuffs are his scruples & [possibly] somewhat higher electrical bill (due to server load).
Regulation ups the ante to fines & possible jail time. I like that
Inb4 my dubious use of the word 'know': You got me, I played it fast & loose, sosumi. Should've said 'having greater reason to think, though still implicitly relying on a bunch of assumptions, albeit a substantially more reasonable & smaller bunch.' That's just so ugly & takes forever to type, so I went with 'know.'

I'm worried about any personal details being on any database. Not because I'm unreasonably paranoid (though that's certainly arguable) but because the more information outside my control, the harder it is for me to manage it. I live in a jurisdiction where there are pretty robust privacy laws, so I'm not too worried about sharing financial information with my government (or other European governments) - I have a relatively high degree of confidence that my information will be used for the advertised purpose, and not sold or leaked to other parties - but it still makes sense to limit the information I share. I'm not going to give out personal data willy nilly - there would have to be a compelling reason for me to do so.

Your second paragraph, 99% of trades are fake? I assume this is conversational, like your "proof" earlier? Yeah, of course your general point is correct - Gemini is safer than a non-regulated exchange. That's why I hope institutional investors in BTC will increase, that's why I welcome Gemini. But in order for me to trade there I need to locate ID documents (what documents do they need? Will mine be acceptable?), send them (or copies - do they need to be notarised?), wait for them to be received, approved, etc. All for trading a few BTC. When I'm already trading quite happily elsewhere.

Seriously, I'd love to be part of Gemini's target audience. If I had the money, I would trade there. But I'm not going to go through the AML/KYC hassle for the sake of a few BTC. And I strongly suspect that most people will display similar inertia. They'll all have slightly different reasons, but the outcome will be the same - most people will continue trading on the exchange(s) they know, until/unless there's a compelling reason not to. And yet-another-new-exchange, even one targeted at institutional investors, is not a compelling reason.

Since you're 'not in the US' (not a US citizen?) this is sort of moot, but out of curiosity, what 'personal details' [unrelated to money laundering/tax evasion] do you worry about appearing in 'a government's database'? I mean, the ones that aren't already there?

>I reject without hesitation the argument that only criminals have something to hide.
So do I, so do I... That's [partly] why I've never suggested such a thing. OTOH, I'm somewhat at a loss as to what AML/KYC requirements you find to be particularly intrusive, and why the risk of said [damaging personal information] coming to light outweighs the reward of knowing that 99% of the trades aren't fake, that Anon won't front-run/otherwise bitch up your trades, or vanish into the interwebs with your coin without so much as okthxbi.
Could you elaborate?

Gemini's launch is not a failure as it is too young and it needs time to grow and settled things.I will say Gemini didn't fail and neither Bitcoin.Actually those who were dreaming to see rise in price they failed.Bitcoin doesn't depend on any exchange it is strong alone.

I'm almost certainly not a part of Gemini's target demographic, and I imagine very few Bitcointalk posters are either - though I seem to recall one poster who claimed to work at a fairly high level for one branch of JP Morgan. Gemini have gone to a great deal of trouble to ensure that they've jumped through the regulatory hoops necessary for US institutional investors to feel comfortable trading there. I'm not in the US, I'm not an institutional investor, and the BTC I'd be prepared to trade on one exchange is fairly meagre, so there's little advantage to me trading at Gemini.

Obviously rational traders want to reduce exchange risk as far as possible. But for many of us part of that risk is derived from, not mitigated by, regulation. I can transfer a few BTC to an exchange, trade a bit, and then transfer my BTC back to my control quickly and easily, with no risk that my personal details (except possibly my email address) end up being hacked, or, possibly worse, on a government's database. That's convenient, and also reassuring. I don't have the wealth to justify trading on Gemini - if I did, I could afford to consult legal counsel and take legal action as appropriate if they "shared" my personal information with hackers (and remember that that information would be far more extensive due to AML/KYC requirements). I'm not obliquely referencing the criminal element - I reject without hesitation the argument that only criminals have something to hide. To limit my risk I'd like to avoid sharing my financial information as much as possible. Obviously I have to share some information in some cases - when I take out a mortgage, etc. But a mortgage is a big thing, much bigger than the limited amount I'd risk on any one exchange. Fortunately there are still exchanges available to me that offer a far less onerous option.

Anyone want to shred some light on why the launch is a failure?

Perhaps 'proof' is too strong a word.  I meant proof in its purely conversational sense, more like 'show.'
Rigorous proof is hard, but a nod, you know, is as good as a wink to a blind horse.

As far as your lack of interest, I'm guessing you're not a part of Gemini's target demographic, 'institutional investors' (who, as I was led to believe, are chompin' at the bit to buy bitcoins, lacking only a legitimate, 'institutional investor'-friendly portal like Gemini).

As to there 'hopefully [being] money out there that wants the safety and security of a heavily regulated exchange"? Why wouldn't one want to trade on a safe, regulated exchange? Do investors typically crave risk without potential reward? Or are you obliquely referencing the criminal element, those who've 'managed to avoid the AML/KYC hoops'?

These are the right words. Thinking long term and having absolutely faith in the concept and technology of the Bitcoin Blockchain. I'm also checking more the fundamentals than the actual price.
Guys who are interested in a quick buck aren't here because of crypto. They are here for fiat money gainings.
I will give the winkle twinkle boys give some time to let their business thrive and evolve. Let's see what they will look like in 12 months.Then we can start complaining if nothing happened.

It's better to see an exchange show its real volume rather than turning 100btc real volume into 2000btc fake volume like Chinese exchanges do. People here nowadays are too spoiled. Holding Bitcoin is considered boring, while in fact it is not. People compare volumes to fake Chinese volumes, while in fact they are 10-20 times less than what they show. Face the reality and you'll be fine.

One or two weeks does not make an exchange
It needs time to grow and develop like any ecosystem the fact it has name recognition goes a long way towards that but trading volumes are still small for good reason.
A far to early call on it and it could still be a stepping stone towards larger projects.

Damn they just startup. Why people think the price would raise to the moon after the launch? Just give it some time. It's a good thing Gemini is started up. It's to fast to say it a complete failure.

Exactly i dont know why people were expecting tons of volume this early.  Gemini offers maybe a more legit way for people untrusting of other bitcoin trading platforms to get involved.

How does people not flocking to Gemini prove that exchanges fake volume?

I'm pretty certain some exchanges do fake volume, but I'm at a loss to see how action at Gemini (or the lack thereof) proves anything. I think Gemini is a great development for Bitcoin but I'm not going to trade there anytime soon - and my reasons have absolutely nothing to do with volume, fake or otherwise, at Gemini or elsewhere. There's inertia associated with moving exchange - why should people move from an exchange they're comfortable with (where they've either managed to avoid the AML/KYC hoops or they've already jumped through them once and would prefer not to do it again at a new exchange) unless there's a compelling reason? There's hopefully money out there that wants the safety and security of a heavily regulated exchange - but I doubt there's significant overlap between that and money already on unregulated/less-regulated exchanges.

I think you're mostly right but I dont think "all " exchanges fake their volumes. Most would seem to be a more appropriate term.

You're right, in a way.  Nothing wrong with Gemini--reasonable trading fees, US based (not in Kurdistan/Somalia/Mom's basement), known people backing it (as in "not Anon & Nony"), banking support, insured, regulated, etc., etc. What else can anyone want?
And yet... Dead.
People not flocking to Gemini proves what many have been telling you for years: exchanges fake volume.  But not just tweak it a bit, not just Chinese exchanges, not just 'a few' exchanges, and not just sometimes--all exchanges, most of the volume, all the time.
Gemini can't [fake volume] because regulated & unwilling to play fast & loose, so seems dead

how can you judge already that Gemini is a fail when it's recently launched?
give it more time and let more people see how Gemini will perform in the coming months

I wonder why all these posts are made by newbies with their first post. 
Maybe it is because they can abandon these accounts when the price starts shooting up again.

Just because the price did not shoot up way you expected, then it's a total failure? No. Fact is people these days are only interested in quick gains and nothing else, whether the core concept or technology means anything. But what I believe is fundamentals. Whether you have an etf that turns out a failure or success, is not going to change that

Yesterday was a bank holiday here in the US so I am not sure.  Time will certainly tell.

My bet's those deposits that 'haven't cleared yet' are simply face-saving fiction.  After all the hype about 'institutional investors waiting in the wings to buy bit coins,' gotta come up with some sort of excuse, no matter how flimsy, to rationalize the *total* absence of aforementioned, and *complete* lack of interest

Well, if the UK had an exchange I would expect it to be more "proper" for sure. 

Yup. Plenty of griping out there. America may lead the world when it comes to plenty of things. When it come to banking it's just about crawled out of the primeval ooze while the rest of the world is already in space. If we had a proper exchange in the UK I'd be disgusted if it took longer than five minutes for the deposit to show up from my bank account.

Some people are saying that their deposits haven't been cleared yet.  Why it takes so stinking long for the banks to clear payments is beyond me.  I guess that is why the world needs Bitcoin.

Hmmm I hope they grow & get a lot more volume. I guess we just have to wait & see but I'm pretty disappointed by them atm. I dont't know exactly what I expected but I expected more.

The price didn't move at all, even Coinbase got a little pump. Gemini didn't even cause a ripple.

That's yet to be seen. Life has been pretty sweet for the markets overall ever since then even if it has been largely an artificial creation. Bitcoiners may get a rude shock in a genuine meltdown. Putting food on the table is rather more important to most people than a possible future success.

>2009
When the price is 0 (zero), the only way is up

Bitcoin flourishes when the markets are down. Like during the 2009 recession the markets were down and Bitcoin took off.

Just wanted to point out that Gemini has kept up with the other exchanges in this recent jump from about 245 to 248. Great to see.

Gemini is operating exactly how it should be. Volume is only a matter of time.

Bitcoin will not fail, its so complicated and advanced technology, it will not just fall. Bitcoin is so well made that even a fail is planned.

I think there are a few things going on.  The Winklevoss twins said that it would take a while for money to get onto the exchange.  There is also a need for coins to be available there. 

It might be a good thing to have a slower start.  Any last minute issues can be figured out and less volume will make it easier to do so, but it appears the roll out was really smooth so far.  A few investors will probably just get their "feet wet" and we will see the true success in a month or two. 

Gemini, the most highly anticipated, most secure and legitimate exchange, with market manipulation proscribed by strictly-enforced regulations, an exchange with reasonable fees, easily funded via legit US banks ... if this exchange has no volume, what does it tell you about the volume of Slovenian/Moldavian/Shanghai/jhkjhk exchanges? Those volumes are 100% real and super legit, right?

the gemini exchange obviously hasn't failed. people who think so are doomthinkers or bears hoping to make people sell their coins.

Though the volume is low, it doesn't mean anything has failed just yet. Besides, there shouldn't be a huge jump in price just because a new exchange launched.

I don't think so. The owners of Gemini are the twins Winklevoss. Their portfolio includes over 40 companies and is growing strong. Have not reasons why this last investment made from them be a failure.

According to them:

"Our interest in Bitcoin began in 2012. It was immediately obvious to us how awesome and powerful this technology was. People laughed, as they always do, when something is awesome, powerful and new, but that only helped to fuel our fire. Over the past two and a half years, we have spent a great deal of time educating ourselves and others about Bitcoin; investing in bitcoin; investing in Bitcoin-related companies; filing an S-1 registration statement with the Securities and Exchange Commission to create the Winklevoss Bitcoin Trust (an ETF focused on bringing bitcoin investment exposure to main street investors) which will list on NASDAQ; and launching a bitcoin price index called WinkDex that will price our ETF (online, iPhone, Android)."

Seems that they act not without thinking and not prepared. Since they had interest about bitcoin since 2012 and had invested early on it these are very good signs that their last investment connected with bitcoin should have a good progress.

For more about their thoughts about this last their initiative you can learn here: https://blog.gemini.com/welcome-to-gemini/

Thanks for sharing. The volume is indeed very low. Even lowen than I expected it to be, but as I said in my previous post here in this thread, we need to give them time. No exchange directly gets huge loads of volume.

At this link.

http://bitcoinity.org/markets/gemini/USD?theme=light



That 77 bitcoin spike last night means someone got money and bitcoins onto gemini. Was that due to one of the lucky few that got a fast bank transfer completed before everyone else? The sell wall above $250 has grown from 30 coins after launch to over 200 coins today. After it goes over 1000 coins the exchange will begin to look more serious.

Yes. I want 'Wall St' pleading for my coins neeeooowwwwwwwww.

I thought they used ACH which should get money on there within one business day. I don't think there's any particular rush at present though. 

Exactly this! Goodness gracious what have we become? Are we all just a bunch of spoiled brats or is this place so full of trolls and FUDsters?

Where can you see how much volume Gemini exchange generated in the last 24 hours? Beside that, you guys have to give their exchange time to settle and find the right place in the current market. If large traders don't consider Gemini exchange worth leaving Bitstamp, Bitfinex, etc, for then they have a little problem. Give them at least a few months time to build op their volume. Also, I prefer an exchange that shows real volume instead of producing loads of fake volume.

I won't consider it a failure unless the twins close their exchange due to lack of interest, abandon their ETF plans, and dump all their Bitcoins  Although many small alt coin exchanges have closed due to lack of interest this year I don't think the twin's exchange will. I admit I was hoping for more volume on the first day of trading, but Rome wasn't built in a day.

So because an exhcange that is hardly 2 days old has little volume yet it is considered a failure?

People are probably still trying to get their USD onto the exchange..

You should never trust words of snake oil salesmen unless they sign a message with their private key.

that's just a way of showing how much trust they have in bitcoin. i don't believe them either, but for some people who believe things very easily it may sound like they are hero's.

this is not always the case neither is the opposite.

It is sometimes true for both outcomes.

now we have all these bitcoin. 

bitcoin are bought and sold everyday.  at these prices and all others. 
no one is a fool just because of buying or selling at any point.

LOL "We never sold a bitcoin"...

@OP Exactly why is it a failure, what lead you to say this?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/27/us-winklevoss-exchange-idUSKBN0L02D120150127

gemini will become to next biggest platfrom

Just because Gemini didn't cause a moon run in price  doesn't  mean it's a failure. It is another building block towards a better btc but one that can be sustainable.

Well it has failed in the eyes of the unrealistic ones that expected a pump to $300, like it happened with Coinbase. It has also failed even bigger with the trolls who are now here creating accounts, opening threads like this and making fun of the fact that we haven't seen a pump to $300.

There you go, I hope I answered your question.

There are many exchanges nowadays. There have been some that had failed, and others that have little volume. But Bitcoin follows on.

I did not even noticed about Gemini.

Hard to tell from looking at this: https://cryptowat.ch/gemini/btcusd/5min
You decide.

How exactly did Gemini fail?  Is the exchange not working?

how many months do we need btw, because there are good news that are old a year already and the price is always there

i think those news are only promoting themselves not really bitcoin...

I'am not sure how you guys can say that Gemini is a failure , they just started so let's give them a chance I guess ... ?  Most of exchanges out there are basically worldwide or at least U.S/Europe but Gemini is only for USA now , pretty sure they will people interested once they expand their business to more countries .
and for what comes to the "Bitcoin is a failure" part , I don't know mate from what I see .. Bitcoin is going to the moon , there is even banks who are interested on Bitcoin (Bitcoin and not blockchain technology) and I'am not sure how a 3.5 billion $ marketcap business will just fall . It could fall of course anything can happens but it just not that easy .

Came in expecting a newbie account, was not disapointed.

It also gave me prostate cancer and bad luck for my future children.

The price of bitcoin has been dropping slowly but constantly for a while. Bitcoin is obviously a failure.

This!
Bitcoiners--the ones still around, the diehards--preached bitcoin for so long they're buying their own hype, to the point of actually believing shit's gonna pump itself.
Because mathematically assured, because this thing can't lose, because network effect, because tubs of purple Kool-Aid.

Stop getting high on our own supply! Let's get back to work and pump this thing.

Coinbase already had a ton of inbuilt customers they could slot into their exchange. Gemini's going to take a while to get rolling. Having said that they don't offer anything new or any bells and whistles. It's good that it exists but it ain't revolutionising sod all.

The failure of Gemini is finally breaking down this illusion that Wall Street will soon want to buy up bitcoins.
This is important because this desperate hope was one of the main things that kept the price from falling.

I think that it will take about a week before it's clear to everyone and then the first miners will start to unload their accumulated coins.
The Winklevii are the kind of snake oil salesmen who believe in their own product, so they just mess up the scam entirely.

This.

@OP- GFY

I'm very happy to be a greedy motherfucker.
Only idiots sell at these prices.

Many people desperately wanted bitcoin price to shoot up with the Winklevoss twin's Gemini and ETF. They're finding out Gemini is a failure. They will find out ETF is also a failure. The Winklevoss twin's don't do anything but for themselves. What they want to do is to "corner the market" all to themselves. In short, they're greedy as f*ck. Their greediness will be their downfall. So it will be for the majority of people on this forum.

Have you recognised any buy the rumors and sell the news?
I haven't. And yes there had been no increase in price.But that wasn't expected.So stop your FUD!
I'm not saying that Gemini will be successful but I think it's normal that every new business needs time to develep and to grow.In a few months we will see how thinks will have worked out.But not right now in this momet.

Everyone who thinks news has some instant effect on price is a failure...

It's just another exchange with few uniqueness, of course it's failure
But, at least by Gemini's launch. It pumped bitcoin price almost to $250

Also, i heard there aren't many traders who interested with Gemini

What's the next excuse? ETF? i am 100% sure it will be a failure too.

No one wants your sinking bags, better sell fast.