Topic: Germany arrests 25 extremists on suspicion of planning armed coup (Read 115 times)
Remember, good and bad people are everywhere in this world. Extremists also are found in almost every country. But remember, in all these wars between Authorities and extremists, the ordinary citizen has to suffer. There can be some peaceful solutions for the problems mentioned in this post. The world needs to focus on them to avoid causalities.
December 09, 2022, 06:38:24 AM
I would like to know the details of the investigation. I am glad Germany keeps a vigilant eye on guys like this, but ideology (communism, nazism, capitalism, fascism,...) is not a crime in itself. Contacting with Putin technically is not either. I am interested in knowing the plans they had, how serious they were about it and the extent of the illegalities themselves. The number of people implied or supportive in the rage of the 20 thousand is something I would also like to have honest confirmation of it.
Having said that, insofar as I am concerned, they are better kept away.
Having said that, insofar as I am concerned, they are better kept away.
December 09, 2022, 04:27:23 AM
I personally heard about the movement of the German "Reichophiles" for quite a long time. These are such successors of the cause of the Third Reich, fighters for the "Great Reich". A sort of mixture of great-power chauvinists and neo-Nazis.
Communication and consultations with Russia are not surprising at all! More precisely, I would be very surprised if this fact did not exist
Here it is worth remembering, and for those who do not believe, raise the story - as soon as Russia gets into another "story", and they begin to pinch "bells", it begins to activate its foreign, so-called "canned food". These are some structures that are systematically built, from small groups for organizing local unrest, to full-fledged, large, completely terrorist structures. The goal of the latter is to put severe pressure on and overthrow governments / state leaders that are objectionable to the Kremlin ghouls.
But it will be interesting to see what Germany will do, where there are a lot of "Russian canned goods" in the political circles of Germany. Now squeals will begin from Schroeder, Merkel and other "supporters of saving Putin's face"
Communication and consultations with Russia are not surprising at all! More precisely, I would be very surprised if this fact did not exist
Here it is worth remembering, and for those who do not believe, raise the story - as soon as Russia gets into another "story", and they begin to pinch "bells", it begins to activate its foreign, so-called "canned food". These are some structures that are systematically built, from small groups for organizing local unrest, to full-fledged, large, completely terrorist structures. The goal of the latter is to put severe pressure on and overthrow governments / state leaders that are objectionable to the Kremlin ghouls.
But it will be interesting to see what Germany will do, where there are a lot of "Russian canned goods" in the political circles of Germany. Now squeals will begin from Schroeder, Merkel and other "supporters of saving Putin's face"
December 08, 2022, 11:12:42 PM
Some suggest that what happened is one of the direct results of the rise of the extreme right in Italy, but I find this somewhat absurd.
As an Arab citizen who does not live in Germany, when I hear the news that 25 people have been arrested for planning an armed coup, it brings me back to the scene of a small restaurant that sells eggs on one of India's most popular and crowded streets seeking to take over McDonald's. What were they actually capable of doing? They are 25 people with a very extremist mentality and do not have any support either in popular circles or even in government circles.
As for being an Arab citizen living in Germany, this reminds me of my homeland where political and military coups do not stop, and it gives me some nostalgia for my country because the conditions are similar, especially with the current energy and gas crisis in Germany.
As an Arab citizen who does not live in Germany, when I hear the news that 25 people have been arrested for planning an armed coup, it brings me back to the scene of a small restaurant that sells eggs on one of India's most popular and crowded streets seeking to take over McDonald's. What were they actually capable of doing? They are 25 people with a very extremist mentality and do not have any support either in popular circles or even in government circles.
As for being an Arab citizen living in Germany, this reminds me of my homeland where political and military coups do not stop, and it gives me some nostalgia for my country because the conditions are similar, especially with the current energy and gas crisis in Germany.
December 08, 2022, 10:49:58 PM
I wonder how many german citizens would empathize with sentiments of these extremists? Is it a trend exclusively reserved only for elderly age demographics?
Are boomers considered elderly now?
December 08, 2022, 08:38:09 PM
Nobody expected that in 6th January 2021, pro-Trump protesters would invade the Capitol with the aim of stopping the certification of a free and fair election. Nobody also expected that a sitting President would instigate and support anarchy in his own country that led to the death of his own people. A President who swore to uphold the constitution and protect life and properties became a threat to the constitution and his people. He decided to abuse the law and become an enemy of the state. Those of us in developing world who saw America as our role model became aware that the political situation in our counties are not that bad. We shouldn't be surprised that extremist are planning to takeover power in Germany and we should be prepared for more of such events. The effect of the of the conspiracy theories that the reign of Trump promoted would be felt for many decades.
December 08, 2022, 06:57:31 PM
Interestingly we do not hear so called "progressive agenda" people either attack the capitol building or plan an armed coup, hell I haven't seen them even showing off with their "free to bear arms" gun show off either. And yet, right win has been in the middle of it all, and somehow they are seen as more nationalistic.
I ask of all of you, which one seems like they care more about people in their nation, the ones who want free healthcare, education, a better and cleaner world, and the right to marry whoever you want, and smoke weed instead of cigarettes which is proven to be better (still shouldn't smoke anything to be fair) and many other things. Or the ones who plan an armed coup, aim to kill senators and rush the capitol building, ban laws to prevent people from living the way they want, and overall let others suffer based on their views just because they believe in things?
I know my answer.
I ask of all of you, which one seems like they care more about people in their nation, the ones who want free healthcare, education, a better and cleaner world, and the right to marry whoever you want, and smoke weed instead of cigarettes which is proven to be better (still shouldn't smoke anything to be fair) and many other things. Or the ones who plan an armed coup, aim to kill senators and rush the capitol building, ban laws to prevent people from living the way they want, and overall let others suffer based on their views just because they believe in things?
I know my answer.
December 08, 2022, 06:25:19 PM
Quote
BERLIN (AP) — Thousands of police officers carried out raids across much of Germany on Wednesday against suspected far-right extremists who allegedly sought to overthrow the government in an armed coup. Officials said 25 people were detained.
Federal prosecutors said some 3,000 officers conducted searches at 130 sites in 11 of Germany's 16 states against adherents of the so-called Reich Citizens movement. Some movement members reject Germany's postwar constitution and have called for bringing down the government.
Justice Minister Marco Buschmann described the raids as an “anti-terrorism operation,” adding that the suspects may have planned an armed attack on institutions of the state.
Germany's top security official said the group was “driven by violent coup fantasies and conspiracy ideologies.”
Prosecutors said 22 German citizens were detained on suspicion of "membership in a terrorist organization." Three other people, including a Russian citizen, were held on suspicion of supporting the organization, they said. Another 27 people were under investigation.
German media outlet Der Spiegel reported the searched locations included the barracks of Germany's special forces unit KSK in the southwestern town of Calw. The unit received scrutiny in the past over alleged far-right involvement by some soldiers.
Federal prosecutors declined to confirm or deny that the barracks was searched.
Along with detentions in Germany, prosecutors said one person was detained in the Austrian town of Kitzbuehel and another in the Italian city of Perugia.
Prosecutors said those detained are alleged to last year have formed a “terrorist organization with the goal of overturning the existing state order in Germany and replace it with their own form of state, which was already in the course of being founded.”
The suspects were aware their aim could only be achieved by military means and with force, prosecutors said.
Some of the group's members had made “concrete preparations” to storm Germany's federal parliament with a small armed group, according to prosecutors. “The details (of this plan) still need to be investigated” to determine whether any of the suspects can be charged with treason, they said.
The group is alleged to have believed in a “conglomerate of conspiracy theories consisting of narratives from the so-called Reich Citizens as well as QAnon ideology,” according to the statement. Prosecutors added that members of the group also believe Germany is ruled by a so-called “deep state;” similar baseless claims about the United States were made by former President Donald Trump.
Prosecutors identified the suspected ringleaders as Heinrich XIII P. R. and Ruediger v. P., in line with German privacy rules. Der Spiegel reported that the former was a well-known 71-year-old member of a minor German noble family, while the latter was a 69-year-old former paratrooper.
Federal prosecutors said Heinrich XIII P. R., whom the group planned to install as Germany's new leader, had contacted Russian officials with the aim of negotiating a new order in the country once the German government was overthrown. He was allegedly assisted in this by a Russian woman, Vitalia B.
“According to current investigations there is no indication however that the persons contacted responded positively to his request,” prosecutors said.
Prosecutors identified another individual detained by police Wednesday as Birgit M.-W. Der Spiegel reported she is a judge and former lawmaker with the far-right Alternative for Germany party.
The party, known by its German acronym AfD, has increasingly come under scrutiny by German security services due to its ties with extremists.
AfD's co-leaders Tino Chrupalla and Alice Weidel condemned the reported plans, which they said they had only learned of through the media.
“We have full confidence in the authorities involved and demand a swift and comprehensive investigation,” they said in a statement.
Prosecutors said that apart from a council of leaders, or Rat, the group had tasked several members with the formation of an armed wing. Led by Ruediger v. P., the they planned to obtain weapons and conduct firearms training.
The raids showed that “we know how to defend ourselves with full force against the enemies of democracy,” Interior Minister Nancy Faeser said.
“The investigation offers an insight into the depths of the terrorist threat within the Reich Citizens milieu," Faeser said. “Only the further investigation will provide a clear picture of how far the coup plans had come.”
Sara Nanni, a Green party lawmaker, suggested the group may not have been very capable.
“More details keep coming to light that raise doubts about whether these people were even clever enough to plan and carry out such a coup," Nanni said in a post on the social network Mastodon. "The fact is: no matter how crude their ideas are and how hopeless their plans, even the attempt is dangerous!”
Officials have repeatedly warned that far-right extremists pose the biggest threat to Germany's domestic security. This threat was highlighted by the killing of a regional politician and the deadly attack on a synagogue in 2019.
Faeser announced earlier this year that the government planned to disarm about 1,500 suspected extremists and to tighten background checks for those wanting to acquire guns as part of a broader crackdown on the far right.
Germany's chief federal prosecutor planned to make a statement on the case later Wednesday.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2022/12/07/germany-arrested-suspicion-planning-armed-coup/10850364002/
Federal prosecutors said some 3,000 officers conducted searches at 130 sites in 11 of Germany's 16 states against adherents of the so-called Reich Citizens movement. Some movement members reject Germany's postwar constitution and have called for bringing down the government.
Justice Minister Marco Buschmann described the raids as an “anti-terrorism operation,” adding that the suspects may have planned an armed attack on institutions of the state.
Germany's top security official said the group was “driven by violent coup fantasies and conspiracy ideologies.”
Prosecutors said 22 German citizens were detained on suspicion of "membership in a terrorist organization." Three other people, including a Russian citizen, were held on suspicion of supporting the organization, they said. Another 27 people were under investigation.
German media outlet Der Spiegel reported the searched locations included the barracks of Germany's special forces unit KSK in the southwestern town of Calw. The unit received scrutiny in the past over alleged far-right involvement by some soldiers.
Federal prosecutors declined to confirm or deny that the barracks was searched.
Along with detentions in Germany, prosecutors said one person was detained in the Austrian town of Kitzbuehel and another in the Italian city of Perugia.
Prosecutors said those detained are alleged to last year have formed a “terrorist organization with the goal of overturning the existing state order in Germany and replace it with their own form of state, which was already in the course of being founded.”
The suspects were aware their aim could only be achieved by military means and with force, prosecutors said.
Some of the group's members had made “concrete preparations” to storm Germany's federal parliament with a small armed group, according to prosecutors. “The details (of this plan) still need to be investigated” to determine whether any of the suspects can be charged with treason, they said.
The group is alleged to have believed in a “conglomerate of conspiracy theories consisting of narratives from the so-called Reich Citizens as well as QAnon ideology,” according to the statement. Prosecutors added that members of the group also believe Germany is ruled by a so-called “deep state;” similar baseless claims about the United States were made by former President Donald Trump.
Prosecutors identified the suspected ringleaders as Heinrich XIII P. R. and Ruediger v. P., in line with German privacy rules. Der Spiegel reported that the former was a well-known 71-year-old member of a minor German noble family, while the latter was a 69-year-old former paratrooper.
Federal prosecutors said Heinrich XIII P. R., whom the group planned to install as Germany's new leader, had contacted Russian officials with the aim of negotiating a new order in the country once the German government was overthrown. He was allegedly assisted in this by a Russian woman, Vitalia B.
“According to current investigations there is no indication however that the persons contacted responded positively to his request,” prosecutors said.
Prosecutors identified another individual detained by police Wednesday as Birgit M.-W. Der Spiegel reported she is a judge and former lawmaker with the far-right Alternative for Germany party.
The party, known by its German acronym AfD, has increasingly come under scrutiny by German security services due to its ties with extremists.
AfD's co-leaders Tino Chrupalla and Alice Weidel condemned the reported plans, which they said they had only learned of through the media.
“We have full confidence in the authorities involved and demand a swift and comprehensive investigation,” they said in a statement.
Prosecutors said that apart from a council of leaders, or Rat, the group had tasked several members with the formation of an armed wing. Led by Ruediger v. P., the they planned to obtain weapons and conduct firearms training.
The raids showed that “we know how to defend ourselves with full force against the enemies of democracy,” Interior Minister Nancy Faeser said.
“The investigation offers an insight into the depths of the terrorist threat within the Reich Citizens milieu," Faeser said. “Only the further investigation will provide a clear picture of how far the coup plans had come.”
Sara Nanni, a Green party lawmaker, suggested the group may not have been very capable.
“More details keep coming to light that raise doubts about whether these people were even clever enough to plan and carry out such a coup," Nanni said in a post on the social network Mastodon. "The fact is: no matter how crude their ideas are and how hopeless their plans, even the attempt is dangerous!”
Officials have repeatedly warned that far-right extremists pose the biggest threat to Germany's domestic security. This threat was highlighted by the killing of a regional politician and the deadly attack on a synagogue in 2019.
Faeser announced earlier this year that the government planned to disarm about 1,500 suspected extremists and to tighten background checks for those wanting to acquire guns as part of a broader crackdown on the far right.
Germany's chief federal prosecutor planned to make a statement on the case later Wednesday.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2022/12/07/germany-arrested-suspicion-planning-armed-coup/10850364002/
....
Summary:
Quote
The group is alleged to have believed in a “conglomerate of conspiracy theories consisting of narratives from the so-called Reich Citizens as well as QAnon ideology,” according to the statement. Prosecutors added that members of the group also believe Germany is ruled by a so-called “deep state;” similar baseless claims about the United States were made by former President Donald Trump.
Prosecutors identified the suspected ringleaders as Heinrich XIII P. R. and Ruediger v. P., in line with German privacy rules. Der Spiegel reported that the former was a well-known 71-year-old member of a minor German noble family, while the latter was a 69-year-old former paratrooper.
Federal prosecutors said Heinrich XIII P. R., whom the group planned to install as Germany's new leader, had contacted Russian officials with the aim of negotiating a new order in the country once the German government was overthrown. He was allegedly assisted in this by a Russian woman, Vitalia B.
Faeser announced earlier this year that the government planned to disarm about 1,500 suspected extremists and to tighten background checks for those wanting to acquire guns as part of a broader crackdown on the far right.
Prosecutors identified the suspected ringleaders as Heinrich XIII P. R. and Ruediger v. P., in line with German privacy rules. Der Spiegel reported that the former was a well-known 71-year-old member of a minor German noble family, while the latter was a 69-year-old former paratrooper.
Federal prosecutors said Heinrich XIII P. R., whom the group planned to install as Germany's new leader, had contacted Russian officials with the aim of negotiating a new order in the country once the German government was overthrown. He was allegedly assisted in this by a Russian woman, Vitalia B.
Faeser announced earlier this year that the government planned to disarm about 1,500 suspected extremists and to tighten background checks for those wanting to acquire guns as part of a broader crackdown on the far right.
I'm surprised this could happen in germany of all places. Germany always seemed to show complete solidarity with EU provisions. I would never have expected rebellious #brexity behavior to come from its citizens. With the only extremists mentioned being senior citizens close to 70 years of age. I guess as people near the end of their lives, finding ways to go out in a blaze of glory makes extremist options appear to be more attractive?
In recent times, it has become trendy for many internet influencers to predict a "backlash" to these types of actions. Claiming that these crackdowns produce martyrs and figureheads for populist movements. Similar trends may have occurred recently in iran. I'm not certain if such will be the case, here.
I wonder how many german citizens would empathize with sentiments of these extremists? Is it a trend exclusively reserved only for elderly age demographics? I was certainly surprised they managed to find any extremists at all in germany. Could there be more surprises in store?
Jump to: