Topic: Germany surprises everyone, the economy keeps growing (Read 497 times)

"Gas consumption in the EU countries in 2023 will fall more than its imports from Russia, writes the Financial Times, citing an internal assessment of the European Commission. Gas demand in the EU will decrease this year, according to EC expectations, by 60 billion cubic meters compared to the average over the past five years, with 60% of the reduction in demand coming from five countries: Germany, France, Italy, Spain and Portugal."

As I have repeatedly said before, several countries in the EU have long been "sold" by their governments "into the gas slavery" of Russia. In this list, these are the first three positions, right in the order in which I always indicated them
These are the three largest economies in Europe, and the idea was very profitable - to plant the industry of three European locomotives on their own gas. And this gave 2 unique advantages:
- Constant deliveries to the EU, and constant replenishment of the budget of the Russian Federation with a stable Euro (e.g. German mark, French franc, Italian lira)
- Possibility to manipulate EU politicians, if necessary. And this has happened more than once. Someone does not do what the Kremlin wants - and we have an accident on the pipeline, or equipment replacement, or just a pumping stop ... And, for example, the German economy - freezes ... And this is mass discontent among the population, this is a loss of ratings and other things, not to mention already about real interruptions in the country's economy.

PS "Power of Siberia-2". All. China finally refused its further financing. And gave preference to more expensive gas, but from an adequate supplier.
The most interesting thing is that all the money that China has previously invested in the project is ... CREDITS, which Russia will be obliged to return. The calculation was the return of loans through the sale of gas through the same gas pipeline. The "fraternal people of China" once again "helped" Russia

Germany was just a miserable bedding for Russia under the Merkel government. German society is now seriously rethinking its assessment of the seemingly successful 16-year reign of the first female chancellor. Especially in the context of the current Russian invasion of Ukraine.

As The Wall Street Journal notes,
“Merkel was a key architect of the agreements that made the economy of Germany and its neighbors dependent on energy imports from Russia. Putin’s invasion of Ukraine destroyed this strategic partnership, forcing Germany to look elsewhere for oil and natural gas, at a huge cost to businesses, government and households ".

After the Russian annexation of Crimea in 2014, Merkel not only didn’t refuse to buy energy from the Kremlin, but also worked to double her gas imports from Russia. Many German pundits and even former Merkel allies now believe that this alone gave Putin the courage to launch another invasion eight years later.

During the years of Merkel's rule, defense budgets were constantly cut, which led to a sharp current weakening of the German army.

According to experts, another strategic mistake by Merkel is the decision to completely abandon nuclear energy, which backfired on the country today. The decision was taken as a response to the disaster in the Japanese Fukushima, and in the end made Germany even more dependent on Russian gas.

Now Germany has almost completely got rid of dependence on Russian oil and gas. But the practical implementation of such solutions, of course, led to temporary difficulties, which are inevitable side effects.

Sources:
https://from-ua.org/news/641684-kak-merkel-vzrastila-putina-i-prolozila-put-k-voine-v-ukraine-nazvaly-glavnye-etapy.html
https://www.unian.net/world/kak-merkel-prolozhila-put-k-voyne-v-ukraine-wsj-nazvala-glavnye-etapy-12271092.html

Demand for gas in the European Union could fall in the next 12 months by more than the total amount of gas the EU plans to buy from Russia this year, the European Commission said. This reduction in consumption is likely to ease inflationary pressures in the bloc.

In a document seen by Reuters, EU Energy Commissioner Kadri Simson noted that the energy saving policy should lead to a reduction in EU gas consumption by 60 billion cubic meters.

Savings and switching to more efficient consumption technologies is another plus for the German economy and the EU as a whole!

Read the first posts that bumped the topic. Germany is in a technical recession. Germany! Supposed to the economic-industrial leader in Western Europe, actually the WHOLE of Europe, turned into a big joke by their current leaders.

It's also probably because of their involvement with the war against Russia. If they wanted to fight a proxy war for the United States, then they shouldn't have shut off their nuclear power plants and be independent from Russia for their energy needs. The root of German inflation might be high energy costs.

People were thinking that people in Germany weren't able to buy foods and were starving to death, then I proved them wrong. But they still live in their own or Putin's illusions.
It's not a winter anymore but I really think, maybe I should have recorded a video of me with room temperature monitor in the GYM, in Edeka, Rewe, Aldi but I know, they would say again that either I lie or temperature monitor is rigged. So, I'm not gonna prove them that we live well, I just don't care, I'm gonna only enjoy it.

No, Germany is not only the largest manufacturer in Europe but people are working hard, including immigrants who come here, work really really hard.

I think one of the reasons that Germany are doing so well is that the economy of Germany is the largest manufacturing economy in Europe. Germany is also the most open economy amongst the G7 states, with a foreign trade quota at around 98% 

Germany's rebirth as a global economic power after World War II, just shows us how fast they can recover after a crisis, so it was expected that they would bounce back first, after Covid and also the influence of the War between Russia and the Ukraine.

I read that Germany is technically in a recession and I come here and read that it’s economy is doing well. And only later I realized that it’s an old post, not that old but shows how quickly events can change.

The german DAX actually hit a new ATH and while it’s in a recession. It’s a crazy world that we live in and shows you how useless fundamentals are at times like this. Kind of like when the US stock market went to new highs while they had record amount of people going on unemployment .

Germany's GDP also contracted by a half of a percent during the end of 2022. That's two quarters of contractions, which puts their economy in a technical recession.

For the people living in Germany, has inflation gone down yet? Or does it remain high? Because if inflation remains high, it's going to end in stagflation = economic recession + high inflation. It will not be good.

Yep, great idea. By analogy, do you want to say that in 1941 the USSR had to surrender to Germany, and the USSR and Germany would be much better now?
No, both Nazism and Rashism (the heir to Nazism) must be destroyed. Yes, this is not easy, but such cancerous tumors of the world must be removed, otherwise these diseases cannot be treated!

"ps By the way, do you know that Moscow bought Kyiv in 1686 for 146,000 rubles from Warsaw as part of the "Eternal Peace" treaty? "

familiar topic. Here the other day a crazy Kremlin under-furrer looked at a map and showed that Ukraine did not exist. True, he forgot 2 points:
1. On that map, Russia didn’t really exist (until 1721 it didn’t exist, there was Tartaria or the Moscow Ulus)
2. Ukraine was already on that map
But for lovers of propaganda and alternative reality - this is not a problem

Regarding the purchase - then do not forget that many times they didn’t even buy Moscow and all of Muscovy, but simply kept them as slaves and servants, and for this Muscovy also paid extra to their owners
For example, Muscovy until 1710, I can be mistaken for a couple of years, paid tribute and ransom money to the Crimean Khanate, and belonged to him. Muscovy was "liberated" not because of some kind of victory, but only because the Khanate itself had lost its strength. So, you can enjoy this historical FACT

Yes, and do not forget that it was the Kyiv princes who built the city of Moscow in the swamps, on the site of the settlement "Kuchkovo", in 1147 I.e. Moscow bought its parent?

And they saved many times, by the way, it was the Americans who could simply not feed Russia so that it would fall apart, but no - they fed it Just a reminder, historical facts, when Russia survived only thanks to the help and feeding of the United States:
- 1891-1891. Global hunger in "the largest and most fertile country." Because of the "skillful rule" of the German ruler of Russia (from the family of Holstein-Gottorp), popularly nicknamed the "Hangman"
- 1921-1923. Great USSR, surplus development, destruction of the peasantry, as a result - famine
- 1941-1945 Lendlis, who saved the USSR. Both weapons and food.
- And the "icing on the cake" - 1998, "great Russia", announces a "technical default", although it was a full-fledged one, and begins to beg food from the whole world - both from the USA and Ukraine. And the world saved them again ... As time has shown, it was a very stupid act! But now it won't happen again!

Meanwhile, German GDP in the first quarter of 2023 decreased by 0.3% (worse than expected). Over the past quarter, GDP fell by 0.5%, that is, there are two quarters of GDP decline in a row. It's a tech recession that Olaf "it's just ridiculous" Scholz ruled out completely in January.

That’s definitely good for the Germany. I envy Germany for its amazing innovation in the medical industry and mechanical industry as well. I don’t know how many of you are from the pharmaceutical background but there is one charming thing about Germany; they innovate!
Now I wouldn’t go in technical discussion or numbers etc but whenever I am using any filter tip to staining machine or whether it’s filling up vaccine vial to sterilising the lab glassware; everything in my laboratory is about Germany. The pharma lab where I work is domestic giant but as per the FDA regulations they will always be keen about following the proper SOP. The quality equipment’s and material demand is always fulfilled by Germany.

Frankly, China comes as alternative if there is no literal option for the specific material procurement.

Definitely Germany is contributing more than one can imagine.

Even safety cupboards in our lab are procured from Asecos, Germany. They are obviously exporting many manufacturing jobs and flourishing on it.

Keep it up Germany.

Glad you're having fun. I still believe that if Ukraine had unconditionally capitulated a year ago, its position would be much better than it is now, and the position of Germany would also be better than now. As for the UK, I'm less sure.

ps By the way, do you know that Moscow bought Kyiv in 1686 for 146,000 rubles from Warsaw as part of the "Eternal Peace" treaty?

Wow, I see that the Germans are wise and care more about their economy and good leadership,which shows that there is equality in the country. In a country where there is equality, there will be growth. Considering the ingoing war in Europe,I was thinking that it will affect all European nation economy but I got it wrong. Germany has a strong economy, despite the Covid-19 and high inflation, it didn't shake it. Germany should be a good example to other nations.

You are trying to bring the situation with arguments and facts to a person ... who still believes that in Germany everyone froze without Russian gas, and for the same reason in Britain the whole house is washed in the same bath without changing the water, they heat houses purely with wood, and bought and eat cat food, because Russia has decided to leave Europe without its energy resources?! Waste your time!

But I recommend reading his posts - a great humorous show!

It is to a lot of people, let me quote some
 Germans are looking to firewood for energy as natural gas prices soar


So according to the genius above right now there are only 10% of the companies in Germany alive, weird how you can still have a growing GDP and rising exports with just 1/10 of them, must be that German efficiency.

Or another genius who said Kyiv would fall in one month and the whole of Ukraine was to be conquered by last May:


You see according to some experts here Germany was supposed to be right now in the stone age or at least bronze, funny thing that although all the stupid things they have said are obviously ridiculous by now none of them is backtracking and are even doubling every day on the predictions of the fall of Europe.
This is what propaganda does to some


If Germany has a migrant problem it's obvious because people are flocking there, so if millions go to Germany and not traveling to Iran for example, or Venezuela or North Korea which doesn't have a migrant problem it seems from the refugee point of view Germany is still the top choice. So, unless they stop going there en masse and switch the target destination to Russia I tend to believe both social justice and human rights are of no concern!

Hold on, folks! Germany, the pinnacle of governance? Sure, they're winning big league now, but others are struggling. Are they not "copying Germany" enough?

Success isn't just dollar signs. What about social justice and human rights? Germany's got a goldmine, but their refugee and migrant game? Questionable. Ignore that because the economy is booming?

Let's widen our lens, look beyond. Germany's a great example, but not the only one. Let's learn from all, build a fantastic world together. Unpredictable, bursting with ideas, just like us humans. The best!

And why does Germany reduce electricity production in order to improve the environment, If other big countries do not do this. There are many thermal power plants in Russia that smoke the sky and use a lot of coal. China also has a lot of coal-fired power plants. India also uses a lot of thermal power plants.

After shutting down the nuclear power plant, Germany increased electricity imports from 1.3 gigawatts to 6 gigawatts, mostly from nuclear plants in France and a little from coal plants in Poland, Bild reports. Eco-friendly.

According to statistics, nuclear energy is 6-8% of all electricity in Germany. This is not France, where more than 50% of all electricity is produced at nuclear power plants.
If they are talking about security, then it is ridiculous when nuclear power plants of other states are located near the German border.

Don't talk nonsense as long as the Green Party is in power in Germany - Germany will be a miserable bedding of the USA, spitting on its own economic interests. With leadership like this, Germany doesn't need any external enemies, they do a great job of shooting themselves in the foot. What is at least the recent closure of the last three nuclear power plants (against which, by the way, were two-thirds of the German population).

Cherry on the cake - the dismantling of German nuclear power plants will be carried out by the Bavarian company NUKEM Technologies GmbH, which on December 14, 2009 was sold to the Russian Atomstroyexport for 23.5 million euros.

Surprises? Germany losing money and being a poor nation would be a surprise, them growing and getting better is not a surprise to anyone at all. People flock to Germany more than most other nations to live there for a reason, and that reason is that people at the top actually wants to make that nation a good one, and that is why they are as rich as they are today. This is also a proof that if governments wanted to solve issues and make everyone better, all they have to do is follow Germany.

However, between bad politicians, and terribly one sided media that lies to you, and fools who believe those lies, you are not going to get that in most other nations. So it should be remembered that Germany doing better is what is expected, not a surprise to anyone at all.

If that's the only problem for you, then you don't need to worry too much, because most Germans are tolerant people and don't have a bad attitude towards foreigners who are extremely important for their economy. In my opinion, the problem is much bigger in that those who came to Germany actually behave in a very inappropriate way and do not respect people or their culture, which is in a way racist.

You only need to look at the data on the increase in crime, attacks, especially rape in Germany after 2016, so don't be surprised that part of the German public has completely legitimate defensive attitudes.

It might all be propaganda, but to reduce their dependency on Russian Gas, Germany reacted by putting coal as their top source for energy production, which is stupid for their "green energy policy" because it's the dirtiest means of energy production. This stupidity started when their government started to approve shutting down their nuclear power plants and replacing them with unstable energy sources like solar and wind, while also importing Russian Gas that started the dependency. I believe all 17 of they're nuclear power plants are now not operating.

Germany has always been the powerhouse of Europe when it comes to manufacturing so it's understandable they would be doing well now after COVID and resource issues from Russia's war on Ukraine. The gas and oil situation has stabilized and means they are able to focus on the economy again. They do have a very efficient, resourceful and innovative way of thinking plus the whole economic framework to back it up. It's good because they can help pull the rest of Europe along in improving, some countries in the group do slack off a bit or have possibly too generous social programs.

The German economy managed to hold its ground despite difficult framework conditions of the global economy with continuing COVID-19 pandemic, supply chain interruptions, rising prices, and the war in Ukraine. The economy of Germany is a highly developed social market economy. It has the largest national economy in Europe, the largest by normal GDP.

In fact, there is nothing surprising in this news.
The German economy is indeed one of the largest. Very self-sufficient and low-dependent.. Although no - until recently it was highly dependent on gas, on a monopoly supplier. Yes, covid19 has led to noticeable difficulties, just like the whole world without exception... Plus economic terror in 2022 with gas. But Germany and Germany for that - did not succumb to provocations and attempts to sabotage the country's economy .. Now a REALLY strong economy is being restored - factories, factories, everything works ... Although someone here on the forum "sang songs" about the total closure of all business and the collapse of the economy Germany and a completely frozen population, without ... Oh well The decision turned out to be not difficult - the choice in favor of stable and adequate gas suppliers and the diversification of energy supplies, which was already on fire in the EU, but was held back by Frau Merkel and other EU saboteurs .. .
Believe me - 1-2 years, and the German economy will simply forget about the problems at all.

Germany is a country that holds a special place in my heart as my dream destination. However, my enthusiasm is dampened by concerns about racism. Despite its impressive economic standing as one of the top 5 largest economies in the world, trailing only behind the United States, China, and Japan, and being the largest economy in Europe for many years.
Germany has earned its reputation as a global powerhouse with a thriving economy. Boasting a diverse economy with a strong emphasis on the service sector, which contributes a significant 70% to its GDP, the country's economic prowess is undeniable. Moreover, Germany has shown astute leadership and a strategic position in world politics to safeguard its trade relationships with other nations.

It is good as a country to maintain good status
The Germans are people with positive mindset and are willing to let go of corruption and grow there countryside despite the challenges that the whole world is going through
Germany has always been a country of everyone dreams due to there level of operations they maintain there economy standard and also partake in all forms of trade there interest is on growth and change which is supposed to be every countries priority

And the good news keep on coming

Germany Industrial Production Rebounds In September
https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/interestrates/germany-industrial-production-rebounds-in-september-1031880990


Anmd the thing is even more surprising since everyone was expecting a contraction:

Seems like they interviewed a lot of Russian puppets instead of experts, so not only did it not go under but it grew both on MoM and both on the annual average, keeping 2022 2.6% higher than 2021. And with both gas and electricity prices falling on the spot market between 5-10x times since the peak, pretty obvious, another apocalypse is done for.

Good for them to finally wake up and run thier economy otherwise they'd be doomed.

That's why Germany needs saving right? Because it's diving into a deep well. They'd have to activate powerplants coal plants and nuclear plants back up again. They have condoned these powerplants before because they wanna lead the renewable energy. Poland is the biggest promoter of this renewable energy but is now thier source of gas and oil through the Poland gas pipeline.

Germany has always been a great nation with innovative people. they have been saving EU and keep doing that. There is something unique about the Germans that every other EU member nations should learn from. They have one of the greatest brand in the world and they do not go about making noise but keeps building.

Despite all those issue with the gas supply from Russia being cut or whatsoever that circles within that, it seems Germany paved their own way back. Well its Germany of course, the other countries could have been doomed by now if their gas supplies was cut


About this, I've seen alot of this so called individuals on alot of platform that keep on preaching this recession issue. Im not sure with what their goal is but by preaching it every single day, they are actually encouraging this thing to actually happen. Probably they are trying to sell their 'investment course' or whatsoever but these people are actually disgusting in a way

As was shown in this post https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/food-prices-in-germany-tell-me-what-you-want-to-know-5418267 the 'doom and gloom' is not as real as news wants us to believe.
Yes things are up, but not really that much. CNG is still fairly cheap, and so on.
But telling people that does not sell ad space.

I am still seeing some people complaining about 'shortages of things' but digging a bit deeper I see it's a mostly I can't get THIS brand that I like there are only these 4 other brands of the exact same things but I don't like those brands.


I made a post a few years ago that is still somewhat active in P&S about a pair of gas stations across the street from each other and one of them had prices that were stupid high compared to the other: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/gas-prices-why-do-people-pay-that-much-more-for-a-brand-5254433

From the last time a took a picture and posted in early September it's gotten worse Diesel at the cheap station went from $4.89 / gallon to $5.49 the expensive went from $6.99 to wait for it $7.99
So looking at 1 location you can easily say diesel fuel is $7.99 a gallon on Long Island. And it is....there. Every other station for MILES and MILES around is $5.79 or less.

I was listening to someone say how expensive the local pizza place has become for their lunch special. Guess what, 2 slices and a drink have been $8.00 there SINCE 2018. The other place down the road that went out of business (owner died nothing to do with economy) WAS MORE. But, he remembers the good old days or something.

-Dave

If I am not wrong, I believe Germany has recently announced a 200 billion subsidy for the electricity and gas pricing to give relief to the common people and to the industrial units. I am not sure how much true it is. But if this is the main reason why the energy prices are down in Germany, it will have a catastrophic effect on rest of EU countries.

A subsidy war will be started and since German companies will be able to keep their product prices low due to the subsidy, entire EU will be flooded by German goods because they will be cheaper than the locally produced goods. That's not good for EU as a whole.

There will be, but the good news doesn't make clickbait material, nobody is going to click a piece of news about being sunny while a million will rush to read that an asteroid has a 0.0000<50of 0> 1 % chance of hitting the earth in the next one million years. The world has been through a lot of shit, ww1 and 2, wave after wave of the financial crisis, covid and the Spanish flu , and we're still standing, I can remember how in 2009 everyone was seeing it as the end of the world.


Bruh, it's a 16 trillion economy + UK at 3T against one that doesn't have the GDP of Italy anymore and has a lower GDP per capita than the poorest of the EU.
It's insane to think the EU would go broke in an economic war with Russia.


Protests happen in Europe all the time, we have this freedom of not getting shot like animals when we go protesting peacefully, and every party tries to get an advantage when they are not in power and organize this kind of protest to erode the government but it's still nothing, none of them had real magnitude and support for helping Ukraine is the same and growing. Some mistake protests in Europe with the anarchy in other countries, but it's not like that, Belgium went 600 days without a government, and the Netherlands did so for 9 months, it's not like everything will crash just because of a power change.

It is really hard to find any good economic news recently, thank you @stompix for sharing this good news.

I was thinking that European nations would soon go broke because of cost financing and supporting Ukraine. Another factor that always make the doomsday predictions real is the refusal of OPEC+ to increase the crude production because they want the price to keep increasing. There was even news of protests erupting in some parts of Europe because of high cost of gas and other essential commodities. There were predictions that these protests would soon spread to other parts of Europe thereby giving an opportunity for anarchy.

From this information it is clear that although Europe is not free from its economic challenges but there is a very bright light at the end of the tunnel.

In my opinion, just the fact that Germany lost the Second World War made her a strong state economically.

Militarism hinders the normal economic development of the country in the long run.  Germany was inoculated against fascism and militarism.  She learned to be friends and cooperate with other countries.  At the same time, the Germans have always been distinguished by diligence, education and discipline.  In the 19th century, almost all engineering textbooks were written in German. 

I am confident that Germany will continue to experience economic crises with less losses than other countries.

That the countries of Europe without Russian gas and oil could freeze in the coming winter was propaganda by Russia, which sought to force the EU to lift or at least ease international sanctions in exchange for resuming supplies of its oil and gas. This blackmail and threats this time had no effect on the countries of Europe. Yes, long-running supply chains have broken down. But Europe is confidently overcoming this crisis and has already filled its storage facilities by more than 90 percent without Russian energy carriers. By the end of the year, Europe will completely abandon offshore supplies of Russian oil, and this will be a serious blow to the Russian economy. Russia is now losing on all fronts. The bet on force, blackmail and threats did not work this time. Hard times will come not in Europe, but in Russia.

I have been pessimistic but I want to hear news like that, and much better news in the future if possible. All we need now is for the war in Ukraine to end, not only because of the economic issue, but because of the human drama above all, but it is clear that it would also give a good boost to the economy.


Germany is known as the locomotive of Europe. A strong Germany is in the EU's interest.

Once again Germany is going to save Europe's ass. Not supporting Nazism stuff, but imagine what the world would be if they won WWII and keep on developing.

As always, your beloved stompix bringing you the good news that nobody wants to hear.
Keeping it up after my last one:
Eu gas and electricity prices drop 80% to 2021 level, another apocalypse averted
here is again, good news!

Europe’s top economy expanded by 0.3% in the third quarter
Archived since paywall!

Remember how Germany was supposed to plunge into recession, how according to some 60% (just lol) of the companies went bankrupt, how everything is shut down, how there is no more light, no more cars, how bla bla bla.
Well, again, completely defying propaganda Germany has managed to grow again, despite the highest energy prices ever encountered, and those are going down all the way in Q3, TTF day ahead spot prices crashing almost 10 times from the peak.

What's more interesting is that the whole EU economy still went up, and only one country posted you decline with 3 countries posting a previous trimester decline.

Of course, this doesn't mean everything is going perfectly, inflation was still up, but the ECB is finally starting to do its thing, and as I said a few months ago, doing it the right way, acting when it matters and with enough room left for more serious involvement, especially since one of the countries that posted surprising growth was Italy
Italy's economy grows stronger than expected 0.5% in Q3, easing pressure on new govt
and these numbers will help counter the fear of the consequences of further rate hikes.

Going back to Germany, there is the need to address one thing as I saw some quoting that large companies are fleeing to China and shutting down in Germany.
Of course, the usual crap, and the truth is completely different.

BASF planned to open a factory in China in 2019:
https://www.basf.com/cn/en/who-we-are/organization/key-production-sites/guangdong.html
BASF is a 80 billion a year in revenue company, with factories in 11 countries, investing 10 billion is nowhere near what a move would look like.

And furthermore, to counter all the doom and gloom and bankruptcy theories:
https://www.basf.com/global/en/media/news-releases/2022/10/p-22-381.html
BASF achieved solid EBIT before special items despite continued high raw materials and energy prices

As I said above, this doesn't mean that the EU will avoid a technical recession completely, since Q4 is always a slowdown, taking into account inflation and demand destruction we might still see a recession, I'm actually convinced there will be one in Q1 2023, but every single analyst out there no matter how negativist he is about this has slashed the decline numbers, from the worse -1.2 were slowly hovering to an average between -0.6% and -0.2% and not a single source is mentioning a decline in the whole 2023, as overall the economy will reverse the start of the year trend and still grow. Not as fast as predicted at the start of this year but not doomsday either.

So everyone should be happy, another apocalypse is being avoided, the economy works, employment is at record levels, people still have money, and people still afford to buy bitcoins, what do you get if you preach all day long about collapses and recession and bankruptcy?