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Topic: Give me your money, again, for an automated grocery store (Read 892 times)

donator
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Are you asking for an investment from people or just putting out your business plan for critique? I think your figures / profit are a bit optimistic to be honest. Reminds me of everyone who goes on Dragon's Den as they're never realistic.
Critique. I didn't mean to make so many assumptions and pretend I could come up with some reasonable projection, but from national statistics, they all seem within reason (assuming I didn't make any massive miscalculations). Freezing to prevent waste, I'm unsure if is actually legal since I'm unaware of any stores doing it. That'd make a dent if it is illegal (~$2-5k/mo). It's very possible I'm underestimating cooling, but the barn/warehouse can be maintained by piping hot and cold air through insulated ducts to boxes with stock, only heating or cooling products with stock needing it, while the store can rely on economy cooling, blowing air into the barn (not the products' storage boxes themselves) from outside only when it'd be profitable. Electricity costs, cooling ignored, is very minimal -- we don't need everything lit up, we don't have any open coolers like many stores do, and all non-essential operations halt so long as not in use, allowing it to be open 24/7. A large chunk (~$40k) of the barn's/warehouse's upfront cost comes from insuring it's well-insulated.

I'm fairly sure I'm underestimating monthly sales, though. There are >1k people (most >$40k/yr, many >$80k/yr) without a real grocery store within a 20 minute drive, and those are regional chains which can't match the prices of Walmart, but lack the product quality from local brand products. Moreover, though I didn't account for it, a deli and catering service could be added in specifically for the small handful of factories in the surrounding area. (I've eaten food catered there -- local food is awful - lukewarm eggrolls served out of a bucket awful) A simple soup and sandwich combo can be sold at a 150-300% mark-up over wholesale and still be considered very reasonably priced - and we can use actual food instead of bland, watered-down mystery meat. If this becomes regularly catered to, say, 20% of the local factory population, we're talking an extra $900/day net -- a salaried employee could even be brought on to handle this without making a significant dent on the bottom line. What'd make this special is that we can serve the night shifts where there's generally no option other than going to a damned vending machine (which itself has obscene margins). A contract to serve directly in the factory cafeterias may significantly bump up the % buying.
hero member
Activity: 976
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Cryptophile at large
Are you asking for an investment from people or just putting out your business plan for critique? I think your figures / profit are a bit optimistic to be honest. Reminds me of everyone who goes on Dragon's Den as they're never realistic.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1015
What are the small rocks for?>>  Huh
Driveway & temporary parking. Probably not crack cocaine.
full member
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What are the small rocks for?>>  Huh
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1015
-But customers won't trust products to be fresh!

FreshView™ comprises of a series of video feeds displayed on the customer interface. While the customer waits for his order to be bagged and sent down the conveyor belt, he'll see exactly which products are pushed out (each product is in its own unique box, enclosed if temperature is important). If the customer dislikes how it looks, he's welcome to ship it right back up after his order's complete. The conveyor's camera scans the barcode and weighs it to determine which product's being sent back, then sends out a replacement on the spot! Before a customer verifies his order, he may also type in or talk to the interface, asking for a camera feed pointing at the particular product. At the time the customer verifies his order, he'll be asked if he'd like to make any changes, at which point he can remove a product from his transaction if he feels it isn't suitable for purchase.

A prospective user's welcome to check the freshness of products at any time without placing an order by communicating with the customer interface and asking for feeds on various produce and meat products. Customers will be presented additional vital data, such as whether or not the product's in season, nutritional information, and perhaps even be presented a list of recipes they can choose to print out.
donator
Activity: 1218
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I see this as a bit of a pipe dream, but I know it's in demand in at least three nearby towns. We have no grocery stores. We have a Dollar General (carrying a limited selection of way overpriced dairy, juice, and pre-packaged frozen foods) and that's it. Some towns don't even have that, because the towns can't support them. Because of this, residents have to drive 15-45 minutes out of their way just to pick up basic staples. We can still have good margins, but not obscene margins, by being practically the only grocer in town.

This thread was prompted by a discussion here, but it's something I've been kicking around for a while. I haven't wanted to get carried away with it, though, and I don't plan to, now, so consider this an interest probe, not any kind of prospectus.

The basic idea for the store is to have an automated warehouse which serves requested goods at an automated service window. Customers do not order food at the store, but online, which works like any ordinary web-store except that it doesn't ship anything out -- it's all held at the physical location for the users to pick up. They can order at home on their laptop or PC, or at work on their smartphone. They can pre-pay using bitcoin, or they can pay at the time they pick the food up by typing in their order number and using a debit or credit card (with low margins, we scrape back costs of this by passing processing fees onto the consumer, incidentally giving them incentive to adopt BTC even if they've never heard of it). EBT payment can be worked in, but there aren't too many people around here using that -- most are factory workers, with the rest either working at the university a town over or the hospital in a different town over.

Customers can pull their car up to the service window, making this a much less painful process than going to a grocery store. Once they either verify their BTC payment (by using their BT-capable smartphone to sign a message with the address they paid with) or pay for their order using CC/debit, the service window opens up, goods start to be placed in paper bags, and packed bags are then moved out to the window where the customer loads it into their car. A customer should be able to buy their weekly groceries within around 30 minutes from start to finish if they live nearby, much better than 2 hours it normally takes with distant stores and walking around. Possibly moreover, customers will no longer feel guilty for buying pre-packaged, processed foods in bulk. For those line workers with a frozen-pizza-a-night diet - no problem.

I don't think it'd be cost-effective to truly, fully automate this. Someone does need to stock the warehouse, respond to problems, monitor the warehouse, man a customer call button, and remove any inventory which's gone bad. Almost everything requiring a human can be done from a central commercial or even residential location, from adding items to customers' orders on-the-fly, to providing extra bags, to discounting food nearing its sell-by date. What this means is virtually no overhead outside electricity, Internet connectivity, and property taxes. Most importantly - without customers or employees needing to walk around inside the store, far more space can be devoted to products rather than humans without needing to heat or cool for their comfort, only for what products need.


What I can provide:
*Building physical conveyor, bagging, and shelving system using second-hand parts (family friend would be willing to help me with this at minimal charge)
*Creating the driveway (paving it would be a dumb expense, IMO)
*Programming everything (conveyor system, bagging scripts, customer interfaces, online storefront) EXCEPT payment processing
*Monitoring, maintenance, customer service (this may include creating orders for people who didn't pre-order for particularly stubborn people)
*Store card scheme

What would be needed which I can't provide:
*Building the actual warehouse and service window (a family friend would be willing to do this cheaply and possibly finance a good portion of it)
*Suitable land
*Establishing purchase orders and logistics for non-local food
*ID scanning software/hardware
*Related payment processing software and hardware
*Enough money


Upfront costs would include:
Physical store ($125-150k, 10,000sqft metal building w/service window and extra-large signage)
Land ($45-70k for two acres on main town road near I-94)
Initial inventory ($40-60k)
Physical components for conveyors, shelving, freezing ($20-30k)
Coding (free, ideally, but I might need up to $10k worth of help, up to $50k to finish within a year)
Physical payment & interface components ($1-2k)
Misc - bags, cards, hosting, advertising, small rocks (~$700)
Licensing & registration (~$300, including 24/7 liquor)

Total upfront: ~$212-363k (I believe it likely to be around $260k)

Ongoing costs (by month):
Inventory (Huh ~$200-500k)
Property taxes (~$350)
Heating/cooling (~$250)
Electricity (~$100)
Advertising (~$100)
Machine maintenance (~$75)
Internet connectivity (~$60)
Licensing upkeep (~$25)
Quarterly accounting (investment partner?)
Purchasing & Logistics (I can handle with training, otherwise investment partner?)

Total ongoing: $960/mo excl. inventory, $201-501k with.

Assume the store receives 900 "exclusive" regulars who buy all groceries at the store and spend $400/mo on groceries, liquor, and cigarettes. This assumes nearly the entire town uses the store, and given their only alternative is Dollar General, I think this is a fair assumption. Assume there are 500 non-exclusives who spend $100/mo at the store on average. This'd come to a monthly turnover of $410k. -But let's halve that to ensure we're being realistic, and say $205k.


Assume 50% of store items (non-perishable canned & otherwise non-perishable or frozen foods) are marked up 30% of wholesale. Assume 30% of stock is purchased each week.

Assume 25% of store items (non-food, non-perishable) are marked up 25% of wholesale. Assume 50% of stock is purchased each week.

Assume 10% of store items ("cheap meat"; swiss & stew beef) are marked up 100% of wholesale. Assume 15%/mo is not sold near expiration, thus frozen and sold at 10% mark-up over wholesale. Assume 10% of that is either not fit some time after freezing or is not fit to be sold prior to freezing. Assume 60% of stock is purchased each week.

Assume 10% of store items (fresh produce) are marked up 60% of wholesale. Assume 25%/mo is not sold near expiration, thus frozen and sold at 25% mark-up over wholesale. Assume 10% of that is either not fit some time after freezing or is not fit to be sold prior to freezing. Assume 50% of stock is purchased each week.

Assume 5% of store items (premium meat cuts) are marked up 30% of wholesale. Assume 25%/mo is not sold near expiration, thus frozen and sold at 5% mark-up. Assume 10% of that is either not fit some time after freezing or is not fit to be sold prior to freezing. Assume 50% of stock is purchased each week.

Assume 10% of all non-perishable goods (5% food, 5% non-food, nominally) are on clearance at any given time for 5% over wholesale and that their sales are doubled during this time. Assume 75% of stock is purchased each week.



Whew. Alright. We're assuming $205k in sales each month, so now I need to weight the terribly broad product categories...
Non-perishable or frozen food - 1.2 units sold per month per initial stock, 60/164 of total ($75k)
Non-food - 2 units sold per month per initial stock, 50/164 of total ($62.5k)
"Cheap meat" - 2.4 units sold per month per initial stock, 24/164 of total ($30k)
Fresh produce - 2 units sold per month per initial stock, 20/164 of total ($25k)
"Premium meat" - 2 units sold per month per initial stock, 10/164 of total ($12.5k)

So now for some shaky math to project monthly profits from product categories...
Non-perishable or frozen food - $75k/mo sales, $375/mo gross from clearance items, $20,250/mo gross from non-clearance items, $20,625/mo total gross.
Non-food - $62.5k/mo sales, $312.5/mo gross from clearance items, $14,063/mo gross from non-clearance items, $14,375/mo total gross.
"Cheap meat" - $30k/mo sales, $450/mo lost to spoilage (don't worry, I'll eat it!), $405 gross from frozen products, $12,750/mo gross from normal products, $12,705/mo total gross
Fresh produce - $25k/mo sales, $625/mo lost to spoilage (om nom nom), $281.25/mo gross from frozen products, $5,625/mo gross from normal products, $5281.25/mo total gross
"Premium meat" - $12,500/mo sales, $312.50/mo lost to spoilage ("welcome to the neighborhood" expired meat BBQ. Rare? No problem!), $140.63/mo gross from frozen products, $2,812.5/mo gross from normal products, $2640.63/mo total gross

WHEW! This really needed a spreadsheet... I guess I got carried away. Anyway- so we can a project $56,015.63 gross per $205k in sales. -And guess what? NO SALARIES! That's basically all realizable profit, and once DG's pushed out of town (easy peasy), we're the only player! Not much point in even going over overhead, but for the sake of being complete after going this far, actual net/mo would be ~$55k. -On a ~$200-360k upfront investment. Crazy, right? Sounds crazy. What'd I screw up? Cheesy
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