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Topic: Glad chips haven't shipped... (Read 2441 times)
Why should anyone bother with Avalon or BFL when you can get other chips that are faster, more efficient and delivered on time with companies that are actually polite, responsive and supportive when you develop DIY boards? Note that many are also offering "protection" against the vagaries of the difficulty spikes...
Oh how history is soon forgotten...
I think the key here isn't promises made beforehand, but delivery as promised. We have yet to see if KnC, BitFury, etc will actually deliver on anything thus far promised! Lets see how that "protection" works if/when they slip dates... Remember BFL was heralded as the king of ASICs this time a year ago, and they were selling with PayPal so you'll get your money back if they don't deliver as promised in "two weeks"(tm)!
The protection works as long as it's within the valid timeframe of the third party providing it's stipulated terms, or that of the country's laws surrounding the payment method chosen. It has nothing to do with the vendor, it's out of their hands. History's never been forgotten, just consumers have blindly lept into purchases without informing themselves of options they have if terms of sale aren't met and what period of time they have available to do something about it. It's not the manufacturer or the 'protection' available's fault, just the dumbass throwing their money at stuff without reading.
Not so worried about PROTECTION as getting the fucking chips to be honest.
Of course, and I don't want to labour on the same point, but it's exhausting since jermwerty is being critical of something that is irrelevant and there has been so much info recently provided on. I don't car how people choose to pay or what for, just I wish they would clue themselves up on how they aim to recover loss if it occurs.
That said I do not want to see Yifu end up in trouble or people loose thousands of dollars on chips being delivered late, or not at all. I just wish he'd pull his finger out and be honest and get it together as there is a finite window available, and we only know what we've been told is on the horizon. There's more activity occurring we don't know about yet that will effect hashrate soon...
Why should anyone bother with Avalon or BFL when you can get other chips that are faster, more efficient and delivered on time with companies that are actually polite, responsive and supportive when you develop DIY boards? Note that many are also offering "protection" against the vagaries of the difficulty spikes...
Oh how history is soon forgotten...
I think the key here isn't promises made beforehand, but delivery as promised. We have yet to see if KnC, BitFury, etc will actually deliver on anything thus far promised! Lets see how that "protection" works if/when they slip dates... Remember BFL was heralded as the king of ASICs this time a year ago, and they were selling with PayPal so you'll get your money back if they don't deliver as promised in "two weeks"(tm)!
The protection works as long as it's within the valid timeframe of the third party providing it's stipulated terms, or that of the country's laws surrounding the payment method chosen. It has nothing to do with the vendor, it's out of their hands. History's never been forgotten, just consumers have blindly lept into purchases without informing themselves of options they have if terms of sale aren't met and what period of time they have available to do something about it. It's not the manufacturer or the 'protection' available's fault, just the dumbass throwing their money at stuff without reading.
Not so worried about PROTECTION as getting the fucking chips to be honest but at least people are attempting to do the right thing. Our COOP on the other hand want to do it the right way as possible. We inform everyone of our decision to not fabricate. We refund everyone in BTC and we do it as fast as we can. I could really care less at this point what people promise but rather what they actually deliver or in terms of cock ups what they do IMMEDIATELY to rectify that situation. To be honest there are only two players at this point. BitFury delivered chips. Asicminer delivered miners. Avalon shot themselves and BFL is just a joke fullstop everyone else pretty much has little or no reputation of value minus say Burnin, Bkkcoins, Alten and a few other DIY fabricators who have invested more time and effort that it seems most of these other "companies". Sad indeed.
Till the businesses mature and offer solutions to issues rather than excuses no one will really be trusting of anyone. I would rather do with business with people who make mistakes but bend over backwards to fix that mistake and make good on promises as best they can with honesty and integrity. Until you earn that no warranty or protection plan means anything.
Why should anyone bother with Avalon or BFL when you can get other chips that are faster, more efficient and delivered on time with companies that are actually polite, responsive and supportive when you develop DIY boards? Note that many are also offering "protection" against the vagaries of the difficulty spikes...
Oh how history is soon forgotten...
I think the key here isn't promises made beforehand, but delivery as promised. We have yet to see if KnC, BitFury, etc will actually deliver on anything thus far promised! Lets see how that "protection" works if/when they slip dates... Remember BFL was heralded as the king of ASICs this time a year ago, and they were selling with PayPal so you'll get your money back if they don't deliver as promised in "two weeks"(tm)!
The protection works as long as it's within the valid timeframe of the third party providing it's stipulated terms, or that of the country's laws surrounding the payment method chosen. It has nothing to do with the vendor, it's out of their hands. History's never been forgotten, just consumers have blindly lept into purchases without informing themselves of options they have if terms of sale aren't met and what period of time they have available to do something about it. It's not the manufacturer or the 'protection' available's fault, just the dumbass throwing their money at stuff without reading.
Why should anyone bother with Avalon or BFL when you can get other chips that are faster, more efficient and delivered on time with companies that are actually polite, responsive and supportive when you develop DIY boards? Note that many are also offering "protection" against the vagaries of the difficulty spikes...
Oh how history is soon forgotten...
I think the key here isn't promises made beforehand, but delivery as promised. We have yet to see if KnC, BitFury, etc will actually deliver on anything thus far promised! Lets see how that "protection" works if/when they slip dates... Remember BFL was heralded as the king of ASICs this time a year ago, and they were selling with PayPal so you'll get your money back if they don't deliver as promised in "two weeks"(tm)!
BITFURY delivered. On time.
And... I haven't forgotten what Avalon and BFL promised. Nor will I forget how they delivered. Infact we are working with BitFury chips right now... it took only 3 days to get them delivered vs. 3 weeks late on developer chips for Avalon and still not a sign or email etc about our huge lot of Avalon chips. Go figure eh? Boycott Avalon simple solution.
Personally, I'm kinda glad chips haven't been shipped yet due to the increase in difficulty. Sucks that people have put money into preorders but that was your decision. Yifu is a clever bastard but it really should have been expected.
There, I said it.
There, I said it.
Now that's not very nice even if you may be right. No one likes the guy that says: "I told you so."
Didn't mama ever teach you: "If you don't have something nice to say..." Karma tends to bite us in the rear when we gloat.
As a bystander to this entire trainwreck I can't believe that there still isn't any closure; like we're still waiting for the final acts.
You think this wait was bad? I started reading The Wheel of Time, literally the most epic fantasy series ever, by Robert Jordan in '90. He died & fans thought it was over, as unfinished. A brilliant author picked up the work with Jordan's wife's approval & finished the series 23 years later! Now we didn't have BTC involved but we still had a lot of time/$ invested in the series.
Damn, I forgot about that book. Going to try get a copy this afternoon, thanks for the nostalgic reminder!
You bet! Brandon Sanderson did a bang up job finishing off the series with those last books. He's a talented writer with a good grasp of flow. I was really pleased on how well that 23 year fantasy epic finally ended.
Why should anyone bother with Avalon or BFL when you can get other chips that are faster, more efficient and delivered on time with companies that are actually polite, responsive and supportive when you develop DIY boards? Note that many are also offering "protection" against the vagaries of the difficulty spikes...
Oh how history is soon forgotten...
I think the key here isn't promises made beforehand, but delivery as promised. We have yet to see if KnC, BitFury, etc will actually deliver on anything thus far promised! Lets see how that "protection" works if/when they slip dates... Remember BFL was heralded as the king of ASICs this time a year ago, and they were selling with PayPal so you'll get your money back if they don't deliver as promised in "two weeks"(tm)!
Not very clever when those same people "early adopters" stop buying Avalon products.
+1
Only some of batch #1 customers were happy, the rest just licks their wounds.
By "only some" I think you mean "vast majority". Batch #1 customers have been in hog heaven reaping amazing profits and are probably the biggest "winners" in the ASIC arms race.
I personally am torn on Bitsyncom/Yufi. I wonder how they got so far off track since batch #1 but at the same time I have a hard time feeling sorry for chip customers since all of the signs were there. I was planning on buying a batch of chips but got cold feet because at that time batch #2 was experience a delay that still doesn't add up and I was getting ZERO response from Bitsyncom to my inquiry about bulk chip orders. I personally would never invest that kind of capital with a company that is unable communicate with their customers BEFORE the sale is even complete. Everybody that ordered chips should have known that Bitsyncom was already experiencing "unexplained delays" and was not able or perhaps willing to communicate with it's customers AT ALL. It wasn't a secret. Ordering bulk chips at that time should have been a calculated risk and I believe greed overpowered a lot of peoples better judgement and while it doesn't look good, the race isn't over and there's still a decent chance they will come out ahead as the majority of Bitsyncom customers have...
The batch 3 announcement and this post from Ngzhang stopped me from making a really bad investment:
we discussed batch3 price for a long time.
personally, i do think this is a reasonable price.
batch#1: 1300USD + your trust, batch#2: 1500USD + your trust, batch#3 = ?
why batch 1 and batch2 customers will enjoy such a low USD price and extremly high profit? because they put their valuable trust on us.
last September, most of you think we have little chance to win, or could be a crappy scam, you don't buy.
this January, considerable people think we take Jeff down or just spent 400K to make a prototype, you don't buy.
now, everything on track, machines delivered to your hands are only a matter of time. you want to buy them at a same price or something like 2000USD.
OK, please tell me, what is the price of people most valuable things "trust" should be? 500USD? no, 5000USD at least.
as a core developer, i look upon all Avalons as my son. i will send them to who believe us, not the faithless or buzzard.
personally, i do think this is a reasonable price.
batch#1: 1300USD + your trust, batch#2: 1500USD + your trust, batch#3 = ?
why batch 1 and batch2 customers will enjoy such a low USD price and extremly high profit? because they put their valuable trust on us.
last September, most of you think we have little chance to win, or could be a crappy scam, you don't buy.
this January, considerable people think we take Jeff down or just spent 400K to make a prototype, you don't buy.
now, everything on track, machines delivered to your hands are only a matter of time. you want to buy them at a same price or something like 2000USD.
OK, please tell me, what is the price of people most valuable things "trust" should be? 500USD? no, 5000USD at least.
as a core developer, i look upon all Avalons as my son. i will send them to who believe us, not the faithless or buzzard.
Not very clever when those same people "early adopters" stop buying Avalon products.
+1
Only some of batch #1 customers were happy, the rest just licks their wounds.
By "only some" I think you mean "vast majority". Batch #1 customers have been in hog heaven reaping amazing profits and are probably the biggest "winners" in the ASIC arms race.
I personally am torn on Bitsyncom/Yifu. I wonder how they got so far off track since batch #1 but at the same time I have a hard time feeling sorry for chip customers since all of the signs were there. I was planning on buying a batch of chips but got cold feet because at that time batch #2 was experiencing a delay that still doesn't add up and I was getting ZERO response from Bitsyncom to my inquiry about bulk chip orders. I personally would never invest that kind of capital with a company that is unable communicate with their customers BEFORE the sale is even complete. Everybody that ordered chips should have known that Bitsyncom was already experiencing "unexplained delays" and was not able or perhaps willing to communicate with it's customers AT ALL. It wasn't a secret. Ordering bulk chips at that time should have been a calculated risk and I believe greed overpowered a lot of peoples better judgement and while it doesn't look good, the race isn't over and there's still a decent chance they will come out ahead as the majority of Bitsyncom customers have...
"Delays" happen because they are fully paid upfront.
So true, never pay upfront.
The funny thing is those who preordered KNCminers hopes KNC is different
I did so please do not poop on my parade.
"Delays" happen because they are fully paid upfront.
So true, never pay upfront.
The funny thing is those who preordered KNCminers hopes KNC is different
"Delays" happen because they are fully paid upfront.
Personally, I'm kinda glad chips haven't been shipped yet due to the increase in difficulty. Sucks that people have put money into preorders but that was your decision. Yifu is a clever bastard but it really should have been expected.
There, I said it.
There, I said it.
There is no real way to know with 100% certainty that they arent just mining with all those chips for themselves.
Yup sucks to be a preordering customer of AVALON chips.
Yes there is. No one can account for 100% of the 20%+ rises for the past 7-8 difficulty increases. Yeah there's some this, and some that; but the continued increase only means that someone is consistently adding hashpower to the network. If you don't think it's the ASIC manufacturers you are blind.
And honesty I don't really care as long as they can meet their PAID customer's orders. ASICminer is the only one with integrity so far to do so.
Personally, I'm kinda glad chips haven't been shipped yet due to the increase in difficulty. Sucks that people have put money into preorders but that was your decision. Yifu is a clever bastard but it really should have been expected.
There, I said it.
There, I said it.
There is no real way to know with 100% certainty that they arent just mining with all those chips for themselves.
Yup sucks to be a preordering customer of AVALON chips.
Hay guise...since we're like talking about like ASIC manufacturers' atrocities on the mining community through habitual delays of promised shipments...err, what do you like think KnCMiner will do?
And what do you expect ? Preorder is bad decision to go.
People bitching about Avalon now, but next products will be ready to ship when you buy - finally and way to go !
Even I am a batch#3 user, I cannot agree to the title of this thread.
We are all Avalon's customers no matter miner or chips we pre-ordered. It's Avalon's fault caused the delay.
As someone reported received chips, the difficulty will keep rising highly in weeks afterward.
We are all Avalon's customers no matter miner or chips we pre-ordered. It's Avalon's fault caused the delay.
As someone reported received chips, the difficulty will keep rising highly in weeks afterward.
A report that the chips have shipped...
Avalon Batch #3 have just been delivered over the past week or two.
Hay guise...since we're like talking about like ASIC manufacturers' atrocities on the mining community through habitual delays of promised shipments...err, what do you like think KnCMiner will do?
Personally, I'm kinda glad chips haven't been shipped yet due to the increase in difficulty. Sucks that people have put money into preorders but that was your decision. Yifu is a clever bastard but it really should have been expected.
There, I said it.
There, I said it.
Now that's not very nice even if you may be right. No one likes the guy that says: "I told you so."
Didn't mama ever teach you: "If you don't have something nice to say..." Karma tends to bite us in the rear when we gloat.
As a bystander to this entire trainwreck I can't believe that there still isn't any closure; like we're still waiting for the final acts.
You think this wait was bad? I started reading The Wheel of Time, literally the most epic fantasy series ever, by Robert Jordan in '90. He died & fans thought it was over, as unfinished. A brilliant author picked up the work with Jordan's wife's approval & finished the series 23 years later! Now we didn't have BTC involved but we still had a lot of time/$ invested in the series.
Damn, I forgot about that book. Going to try get a copy this afternoon, thanks for the nostalgic reminder!
What can you expect from a man who is 24 years old? He has zero experience dealing with customers.
I expect 6 - 18 year olds in my school to be responsible human beings that look after their peers. Why can't an adult do the same?
Age has nothing to do with this it has everything to do with basic ethical and moral standards that he and many of these companies lack when dealing with their investors / customers. Rather than working with the community and sharing relevant information like where are the chips and when they are going to be delivered all we get are excuses. Excuses are not what the community wants. We want information. Without information it is hard to make an informed decision on such tight time sensitive projects. How hard is it to provide that information? I suspect a 7 or 8 year old can set up a timeline schedule and offer a reasonable amount of information about how long it will take to produce a project for presentation. I have seen kids that age do it many times over the past 20 years why is it so hard for Yifu or Josh to answer simple question and give honest answers?
Clearly they will never get their act together as that sort of flaw is systemic in their nature and that is why avoiding them and their respective companies is a good idea.
Yifu is a clever bastard 
Not very clever when those same people "early adopters" stop buying Avalon products.
+1
Only some of batch #1 customers were happy, the rest just licks their wounds.
I'm pretty sure that most of batch #3 and trade-in customers will never order any products from Avalon, even if they come out
with 10nm products tomorrow. What can you expect from a man who is 24 years old? He has zero experience dealing with customers. And the way he avoided his customers in this Avalon project, I'm pretty sure he is not looking forward to more of the same. He will probably retire after this and laugh all the way to the bank.
I wish him well. Based on what he said in his last update, I'm pretty sure he received death threats so I'd not want to be in his shoes.
Looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life.
Who knows, maybe he will just walk away from all this. No chips, no more products from BitSynCom...
Either way, it was a very mismanaged project.
Personally, I'm kinda glad chips haven't been shipped yet due to the increase in difficulty. Sucks that people have put money into preorders but that was your decision. Yifu is a clever bastard but it really should have been expected.
There, I said it.
There, I said it.
Not very clever when those same people "early adopters" stop buying Avalon products. Given the competition his "cleverness" will be a liability. The DIY community will definitely be going another direction after this debacle. Remember that DIY probably drove a good portion of the sales for these chips something that other chip makers should capitalize on in future. I suspect that like the limited and anemic development for BFL chip / board, (relative to the Klondike, BitBurner, and the Alten offering based on Avalon chips), Avalon has pretty much lost most future DIY board development. Why should anyone bother with Avalon or BFL when you can get other chips that are faster, more efficient and delivered on time with companies that are actually polite, responsive and supportive when you develop DIY boards? Note that many are also offering "protection" against the vagaries of the difficulty spikes as well as offering chips that are at starting at competitive costs.
Yes to "be fair" to the Batch 3 owners chips should continue to be delayed for 7+ weeks 
Batch 1 was late. Batch 2 was late. Batch 3 was late. People said "but chips are different". Nope sorry!
Watching all this go down when chip sales were announced I thought two things:
1. Well there goes my Batch 2/3 investment, cannibal Avalon...
2. Anyone believing chips would ship as estimated hasn't been paying attention, Avalon has historically always been at least 1 month late, with 3+ being more likely.
But still, 1-3 months late is NOTHING compared to the travesty that is BFL...
What I think most people need to understand that is clear now - ASIC Makers don't WANT to release too fast. That would kill orders and slay the goose laying the golden eggs (aka miner's money!)
As for everyone freaking out about the difficulty - that's partially because B3 finally fully made it out the door! Just imagine when chips hit...
Batch 1 was late. Batch 2 was late. Batch 3 was late. People said "but chips are different". Nope sorry!
Watching all this go down when chip sales were announced I thought two things:
1. Well there goes my Batch 2/3 investment, cannibal Avalon...
2. Anyone believing chips would ship as estimated hasn't been paying attention, Avalon has historically always been at least 1 month late, with 3+ being more likely.
But still, 1-3 months late is NOTHING compared to the travesty that is BFL...
What I think most people need to understand that is clear now - ASIC Makers don't WANT to release too fast. That would kill orders and slay the goose laying the golden eggs (aka miner's money!)
As for everyone freaking out about the difficulty - that's partially because B3 finally fully made it out the door! Just imagine when chips hit...
+1
Personally, I'm kinda glad chips haven't been shipped yet due to the increase in difficulty. Sucks that people have put money into preorders but that was your decision. Yifu is a clever bastard but it really should have been expected.
There, I said it.
There, I said it.
Now that's not very nice even if you may be right. No one likes the guy that says: "I told you so."
Didn't mama ever teach you: "If you don't have something nice to say..." Karma tends to bite us in the rear when we gloat.
As a bystander to this entire trainwreck I can't believe that there still isn't any closure; like we're still waiting for the final acts.
You think this wait was bad? I started reading The Wheel of Time, literally the most epic fantasy series ever, by Robert Jordan in '90. He died & fans thought it was over, as unfinished. A brilliant author picked up the work with Jordan's wife's approval & finished the series 23 years later! Now we didn't have BTC involved but we still had a lot of time/$ invested in the series.
Yes to "be fair" to the Batch 3 owners chips should continue to be delayed for 7+ weeks
Batch 1 was late. Batch 2 was late. Batch 3 was late. People said "but chips are different". Nope sorry!
Watching all this go down when chip sales were announced I thought two things:
1. Well there goes my Batch 2/3 investment, cannibal Avalon...
2. Anyone believing chips would ship as estimated hasn't been paying attention, Avalon has historically always been at least 1 month late, with 3+ being more likely.
But still, 1-3 months late is NOTHING compared to the travesty that is BFL...
What I think most people need to understand that is clear now - ASIC Makers don't WANT to release too fast. That would kill orders and slay the goose laying the golden eggs (aka miner's money!)
As for everyone freaking out about the difficulty - that's partially because B3 finally fully made it out the door! Just imagine when chips hit...
Batch 1 was late. Batch 2 was late. Batch 3 was late. People said "but chips are different". Nope sorry!
Watching all this go down when chip sales were announced I thought two things:
1. Well there goes my Batch 2/3 investment, cannibal Avalon...
2. Anyone believing chips would ship as estimated hasn't been paying attention, Avalon has historically always been at least 1 month late, with 3+ being more likely.
But still, 1-3 months late is NOTHING compared to the travesty that is BFL...
What I think most people need to understand that is clear now - ASIC Makers don't WANT to release too fast. That would kill orders and slay the goose laying the golden eggs (aka miner's money!)
As for everyone freaking out about the difficulty - that's partially because B3 finally fully made it out the door! Just imagine when chips hit...
Personally, I'm kinda glad chips haven't been shipped yet due to the increase in difficulty. Sucks that people have put money into preorders but that was your decision. Yifu is a clever bastard but it really should have been expected.
There, I said it.
There, I said it.
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