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Topic: [GLBSE] current hashpower prices (Read 5529 times)

donator
Activity: 1890
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Parental Advisory Explicit Content
June 02, 2012, 12:50:43 PM
#49
Thanks for adding ABM.



Greetz
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1007
May 03, 2012, 02:44:00 AM
#48
I included a theoretical daily paid "bond" with exactly 100% PPS as first line. This means you should have gotten close to 2 Bitcents in April in total, if the bond mined through all of April and paid dividends in time (if that's what you meant with "BTC per MH/s").

Another "BTC per MH" metric are the "1 theoretical MH/s in Q2/2012 costs" and the "1 dividend MH/s in Q2/2012 costs" columns. The first one is the same as in kakobrekla's chart "1mh cost (ask)", the second one takes a look at dividends so far and guesses that these represent the fraction of dividends that will be paid in the future as well. It is maybe more useful for mining company shares (how big is the operator/electricity cut really?), but can also be used to track if the bonds are really paying up.
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
Ad astra.
May 02, 2012, 09:51:45 PM
#47
[...]

Thank you! That's extremely useful. You might consider adding a "BTC per MH" section, or I could just get more practice at mental math and stop complaining. Wink
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1007
May 01, 2012, 08:43:12 AM
#46
Here's my overview with slightly different metrics:
I took a look at all the dividends paid in April 2012 by the various mining companies and compared them to the theoretical values should they pay out 100% PPS. Variations can occur of course because of weekly distribution of dividends instead of monthly/daily, a lot of them didn't even exist in the beginning of April...

I will post the same chart in 1 month with the data for April + May combined, then in the beginning of July with the data for the whole Q2/2102. 3 months should be a big enough sample size to make variations in payout frequency small enough to not matter.

I also gave the numbers for 1 MH/s (in current ask prices) for the claimed hash rate and for a dividend equivalent of 1 MH/s PPS. It's quite interesting to see how much mining companies especially differ in their dividend payouts and how well they actually pay out compared to bonds!

(Edit: Added ABM)

   Ticker      Shares      MH/s (claimed)      theoretical MH/s per share      Dividends per share paid in Q2/2012      % of theoretical MH/s paid in Q2/2012      Current ask price      1 theoretical MH/s in Q2/2012 costs      1 dividend MH/s in Q2/2012 costs      Comments   
   Bonds:                                                         
   100% PPS daily      1      1      1.00      0.01901707      100.00%      not applicable      not applicable      not applicable      theoretical values   
   BFLS      2000      8300      4.15      0.00500000      6.34%      1.20000000      0.28915663      4.56409562      started in the end of April (date unclear)   
   BITBOND      10000      21000      2.10      0.03037642      76.06%      0.63400000      0.30190476      0.39691377      "105%" PPS, started on 8th of April   
   BMMO      10000      10000      1.00      0.01480000      77.82%      0.36999989      0.36999989      0.47542649         
   GIGAMINING      10000      50000      5.00      0.06723132      70.71%      1.50999999      0.30200000      0.42711891      started on 9th(?) of April   
   JAH      2500      2625      1.05      0.00829560      41.54%      0.30000000      0.28571429      0.68772838      "105% PPS", started on 26th of April   
   PUREMINING      10000      10000      1.00      0.01971308      103.66%      0.47999000      0.47999000      0.46304287         
   YABMC      5000      5000      1.00      0.00865824      45.53%      0.34900000      0.34900000      0.76654790      started on 13th of April   
                                                            
   Shares:                                                         
   ABM      1000      830      0.83      0.00349987      22.17%      0.24000000      0.28915663      1.30407576      started ~middle of April (date unclear)   
   COGNITIVE      5000      7600      1.52      0.01497473      51.81%      0.61000000      0.40131579      0.77466570      started ~middle of April (date unclear)   
   FPGA.CONTRACT      6000      2800      0.47      0.00806747      90.90%      0.42800000      0.91714286      1.00890414         
   JLP-BMD      8001      3350      0.42      0.01033380      129.78%      0.25000000      0.59708955      0.46006951      sold lucrative mining contracts   
   MERGEDMINING      10000      1080      0.11      0.00400000      194.76%      0.15700000      1.45370370      0.74641980      Hash rate unclear/not reported   
   TYGRR      1500      12000      8.00      0.08089380      53.17%      2.17500000      0.27187500      0.51131380      47.5% is saved for expansion, 5% to operator   
                                                            
hero member
Activity: 714
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Psi laju, karavani prolaze.
May 01, 2012, 07:20:27 AM
#45
New GLBSE api returns some volume data, so that is now included in the table.

1mh 7d avg = normalized 7 day average trading price

1.4.


notes:

BITBOND has 31000 shares issued (happened recently). No impact on the maths since its a bond.
JLP-BDM has 8001 issued but its waiting for new HW atm - so anything I do isn't fair. Except for taking out all shares completely.
hero member
Activity: 714
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Psi laju, karavani prolaze.
April 21, 2012, 10:46:30 AM
#44
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1000
April 21, 2012, 07:33:53 AM
#43
Not sure there has been much change the past 2-3 days...
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1007
April 18, 2012, 07:19:19 PM
#42
Well, I've put together a nice spreadsheet calculating PPS values and comparing them with payouts so far. It really shows some interesting numbers, but I think I'll still wait a bit until I release it to the public, as quite a few companies/bonds haven't even paid any dividends in April so far and you for example also just have paid for a week (showing ~23% of expected value on my chart right now). Stay tuned for May (or bribe me into releasing it early Tongue)!

It doesn't take into account current share values though, so if you just want to buy the cheapest bond per MH/s, the pictures ehre are certainly useful. If you want to know how high the operator cut in the shares is though and which ones pay out regularly and fairly compared to PPS values, I might be of help here... Smiley (P.S.: looking at the numbers I now know why FPGA.CONTRACTs and PUREMINING shares are so expensive)
vip
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
April 18, 2012, 02:48:21 PM
#41
GIGA looks best bang for the buck for the moment again.

This is in line with what I was trying to do. Provide the best value possible for potential investors.

It looks like I have achieved this and have help early investor see big gains on their bonds face value.
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
Psi laju, karavani prolaze.
April 18, 2012, 02:16:51 PM
#40
Todays update...

YABMC has sold IPO shares and is trading above that, GIGA looks best bang for the buck for the moment again.

18.4
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1007
April 18, 2012, 05:11:41 AM
#39
This is a number that's nearly impossible to obtain, as some of these bonds and shares are worded quite vaguely (example? BMMO has a fee of "currently" 0.003 BTC/month/share).

I'm in the process of calculating the 100% PPS values for each month, once the second difficulty shift in the end of April (or beginning of May?) is done, I'll calculate "theoretical PPS" values per bond/share according to their payouts.
Please not that there will be some variance, as some pay out only every 2 weeks and others pay out every few days (PUREMINING vs. YABMC), but subsequently compounded calculations for quarter, half and full years over the time should decrease this.

As most were struggling in March with dividends and some didn't exist back there, I don't want to give out preliminary results. Wait for the end of April for that or do the calculations yourself - it's quite interesting (example: in Q1 1 MH/s should have earned you a few satoshis less than 0.0671)!
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
April 17, 2012, 08:27:12 PM
#38
I suggest having a "total dividends per MH/s paid in Q1 2012 (Jan/Feb/Mar)" (only on GLBSE 2.0) and a "total dividends per MH/s paid in Q2 2012 (Apr/May/Jun)" column, this will maybe show the far lower profit of shares vs. bonds better.
Even better, though harder to obtain, would be total net earnings  per MH/s for each quarter. This would take into account that some pay out most of their earnings to shareholders, whereas other hold some back for growth (and hopefully increased earnings in the future, reflected in increased share price). If you just count dividends paid, those paying 100 % will look much better than those withholding, say, 50% for reinvestment in more hashing power.
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
Psi laju, karavani prolaze.
April 17, 2012, 09:57:54 AM
#37
And this
05:22.50    ( `MBot ) [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ BFLS ] [ 2 @ 1.475 = 2.950000 BTC ]
05:22.52    ( `MBot ) [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ BFLS ] [ 2 @ 1.5 = 3.000000 BTC ]
05:23.48    ( `MBot ) [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ BFLS ] [ 25 @ 2.0 = 50.000000 BTC ]

places COGNITIVE above BFLS. Also notice huge drop on the cognitive bid. Ask didnt move much.

17.4



for tygrr the dividend includes name coin bonus and we already took out the cost of electric. i do not understand the note at the end.

The calculation takes into account your 5% fee (which is essentially 95%pps).
What it doesn't take into account is electricity fees (as your contract on the site says - or did that change?) and any NMC bonuses.
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1007
April 17, 2012, 04:16:03 AM
#36
Looking at actual dividends you are far from being the best value, don't worry... Wink

Electricity costs seem to be a major factor in your case.

I suggest having a "total dividends per MH/s paid in Q1 2012 (Jan/Feb/Mar)" (only on GLBSE 2.0) and a "total dividends per MH/s paid in Q2 2012 (Apr/May/Jun)" column, this will maybe show the far lower profit of shares vs. bonds better.
hero member
Activity: 714
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Psi laju, karavani prolaze.
April 16, 2012, 09:50:23 PM
#35

Rebumping because it hasn't been fixed yet...


Sorry, I think this should be it.

To avoid further mess and try to stay relevant, last IPO price is the IPO price.

16.4


Now you are placed above BFLS.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 510
April 16, 2012, 09:30:52 PM
#34
JLP-BMD has 8,001 issues, but only 4,427 shares sold...
So it should look more like 0.7590 MHash/share, giving JLP-BMD a 0.2754 BTC per MHash bid and a 0.3161 BTC per MHash ask. (0.209 BTC Bid/0.2399 BTC Ask)

We also had 2 IPO prices, first we sold 2,205 shares for 0.1 BTC, and now we've sold 2,222 shares for 0.25 BTC, I'm not sure how you want to play with that one...

Rebumping because it hasn't been fixed yet...
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
Psi laju, karavani prolaze.
April 16, 2012, 08:21:04 PM
#33
PureMining is 1 MH/s/bond.

Correct, i got confused with the new relase of 2000 shares and order of 13 bfl singles. Obviously only 2gh of that is going to shareholders. My bad. Lemme fix it right up.

EDIT: Fixed, pic back up.
hero member
Activity: 518
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April 16, 2012, 08:16:46 PM
#32
PureMining is 1 MH/s/bond.
hero member
Activity: 714
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Psi laju, karavani prolaze.
April 16, 2012, 08:13:47 PM
#31
To avoid further mess and try to stay relevant, last IPO price is the IPO price.


15.4



16.4
sorted by 1mh cost ask, grouped by type.





hero member
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Psi laju, karavani prolaze.
April 16, 2012, 08:05:33 PM
#30
Thanks, will publish new numbers in a min.
hero member
Activity: 518
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April 16, 2012, 07:56:16 PM
#29
TyGrr pays 100% PPS on 12G. IPO was 3 Bitcoin or $10. Whatever was higher at the time.

The only costs/fee that will be taken is a 5% fee on weekly profit to the CEO (Chaang Noi) for running the operation. Profit will be the value of all coins mined minus electric costs.
(taken from: http://tygrr.com/tygrr-tech/)


Correct me if im wrong, but you have 5% fee beside elec. costs. That more like 95%, if. Smiley

Then, there is a small bonus for Namecoin mining. Not sure what that would bring it out at.
hero member
Activity: 714
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Psi laju, karavani prolaze.
April 16, 2012, 07:50:16 PM
#28
TyGrr pays 100% PPS on 12G. IPO was 3 Bitcoin or $10. Whatever was higher at the time.

The only costs/fee that will be taken is a 5% fee on weekly profit to the CEO (Chaang Noi) for running the operation. Profit will be the value of all coins mined minus electric costs.
(taken from: http://tygrr.com/tygrr-tech/)


Correct me if im wrong, but you have 5% fee beside elec. costs. That more like 95%, if. Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1007
April 16, 2012, 08:33:54 AM
#27
Well, you could state for each operation how many shares were sold in the IPO and how many BTC the operator got for this in total. If they expand (like PUREMINING) the average price for shares @IPO shifts then - but it might still give an overview on how large the operation is and where the starting point for current prices used to be.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
April 16, 2012, 06:26:30 AM
#26
Quote
We also had 2 IPO prices, first we sold 2,205 shares for 0.1 BTC, and now we've sold 2,222 shares for 0.25 BTC, I'm not sure how you want to play with that one...

Don't take this the wrong way, but as a general principle whenever you say the bolded text you're in fact saying "I've created an accounting nightmare which can't probably be unwound". The whole idea of financial management is to never have to say that.
hero member
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Psi laju, karavani prolaze.
April 16, 2012, 05:19:53 AM
#25
Agreed. Its almost impossible to count for all the differences. This is just a general overview and one should do research on his own, before investing, but its not far off.

I added this to the first post, so I don't get sued.
donator
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1054
April 15, 2012, 11:39:40 PM
#24
I haven't issued dividends on GLBSE 2.0 yet, is there more than 1 way to do so? I could imagine at least "pay every share I don't own" and "pay every share" to be useful depending on the ownership situation. It might be the case that only payments to shares you don't own yourself get logged though...
There's only an option for "pay every share I don't own", although I've lobbied multiple times for "pay every share" and/or "pay given amount per share". Because of this, I transfer all new bonds to my main account and sell them from there. So it will always look like all bonds were sold, but you can generally determine how many were sold based on the asks.

Not entirely sure this table is a fair comparison: some of these things are bonds, other are shares.

For example : a cognitive share encompasses ownership of a bunch of FPGA cards
*and* its hashing power whereas a PURE share entitles you just to the hashing power
and nothing else.
It almost sounds like you're suggesting a share at a given hashrate is superior to a bond, where as far as I can see it's the opposite (though that depends on what factors exactly you take into consideration, fees and elec costs on one hand and optimization on the other). With shares multiple risks are passed on to investors, such as mining variance, downtime, hardware failures, and single-sided liquidation. With a bond the issuer absorbs all risks, so the price should be higher. The ownership of hardware is moot for most companies because they do not offer trading shares for hardware.
hero member
Activity: 812
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April 15, 2012, 10:38:07 PM
#23
JLP-BMD has 8,001 issues, but only 4,427 shares sold...
So it should look more like 0.7590 MHash/share, giving JLP-BMD a 0.2754 BTC per MHash bid and a 0.3161 BTC per MHash ask. (0.209 BTC Bid/0.2399 BTC Ask)

We also had 2 IPO prices, first we sold 2,205 shares for 0.1 BTC, and now we've sold 2,222 shares for 0.25 BTC, I'm not sure how you want to play with that one...
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1007
April 15, 2012, 08:19:15 PM
#22
There is definitely something needed on GLBSE that shows how many shares really were sold/transfered and how many shares the issuer still has in posession to determine how much money was coming in at an IPO. This is information that might be quite useful to determine if one should invest somewhere or not...

This can usually be seen in the coupon or dividend payments. The list will show the value of each dividend / coupon and the number of bonds / shares that were paid.
I haven't issued dividends on GLBSE 2.0 yet, is there more than 1 way to do so? I could imagine at least "pay every share I don't own" and "pay every share" to be useful depending on the ownership situation. It might be the case that only payments to shares you don't own yourself get logged though...

This would mean that until the 14th of April BITBOND has sold exactly 6000 shares so far. total IPO would then be 5000*0.6 + 1000*0.625 = 3625 BTC divided by 6000 shares = 0.60416666...BTC/share
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
April 15, 2012, 08:08:59 PM
#21
Interesting that BFSL has the best $/hash?
Not all the assets in the list are exactly comparable though. The bonds should be relatively comparable. Price differences might reflect perceived counterparty risk, although not sure that is the case.

Assets like FPGA.CONTRACT and BFLS represent an ownership share in the underlying hardware, whereas the pure mining bonds do not. Is that worth something, given that hardware could be sold if mining becomes unprofitable?

In contrast, the pure bonds do not incur running costs (as they are factored into the price). The mining companies differ in the way they handle costs, so that needs to be taken into account in any comparison.
vip
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
April 15, 2012, 08:05:05 PM
#20
There is definitely something needed on GLBSE that shows how many shares really were sold/transfered and how many shares the issuer still has in posession to determine how much money was coming in at an IPO. This is information that might be quite useful to determine if one should invest somewhere or not...

This can usually be seen in the coupon or dividend payments. The list will show the value of each dividend / coupon and the number of bonds / shares that were paid.
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1007
April 15, 2012, 07:56:26 PM
#19
BITBOND IPO: 5000 @0.6 (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.835201) and another 5000 @ 0.625 (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.843132) - the secong one seems to only have sold ~1000 shares though (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.845875), he wanted to do a sale then but decided otherwise and to hold on to shares probably or sell them at overpriced values (there are currently 2 quite large sell positions open with 1153 @0.70 and 2317 @0.78).

There is definitely something needed on GLBSE that shows how many shares really were sold/transfered and how many shares the issuer still has in posession to determine how much money was coming in at an IPO. This is information that might be quite useful to determine if one should invest somewhere or not...
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1007
April 15, 2012, 04:38:21 PM
#18
Puremining was initially sold @0.5 BTC per share, then refunded 0.1 BTC/share, then refunded an additional 0.12 BTC/share bringing the first + second round of IPO down to an effective 0.28 BTC/share for the first 200 shares (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.781797). The next 300 shares were offered @0.32 (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.797924). Afterwards 500 shares @0.36 (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.831214) and lately 1000 @0.38 (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.836548) with 2000 more to come next week it seems.

In total he should have gotten: 200*0.28+300*0.32+500*0.36+1000*0.38 = 712 BTC for 2000 shares so far, equalling an average IPO price of 0.356BTC per share.

Maybe write something like (IPO: [email protected], [email protected] ... / IPO combined: [email protected]) for this bond.

Edit:
BMMO seems to have a kinda weird fee structure: They ("currently"!?) have a plain fee of 0.0015 BTC per week (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.830497) - this amounts to currently a plain 33.3...% deduction, so they should be valued @66.6% PPS, not 100% PPS. This can get worse though (but according to their post the fees will max. be the whole profit, not more - how comforting!).
hero member
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Psi laju, karavani prolaze.
April 15, 2012, 04:00:19 PM
#17
Ok, fresh pic is up. I hope I haven't screwed the data, but looks ok to me Smiley
hero member
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Psi laju, karavani prolaze.
April 15, 2012, 03:47:40 PM
#16
Found a small error, pic removed till i fix it (any minute now)
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1000
April 15, 2012, 03:37:49 PM
#15

PUREMINING 0.38


I bought at 0.28 on 4th March, but can't remember if that was the IPO price.

marked

As I mentioned above - I thought it was correct - perhaps not.  Will wait for a definitive answer...
hero member
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bitcoin hundred-aire
April 15, 2012, 03:27:43 PM
#14
there are a lot of arb opportunities here... and some of them are quite excellent
full member
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Merit: 100
April 15, 2012, 03:15:07 PM
#13

PUREMINING 0.38


I bought at 0.28 on 4th March, but can't remember if that was the IPO price.

marked
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
April 15, 2012, 03:13:15 PM
#12
Not sure if 100pps is correct, but nb of shares is. I am not sure about RSM hashrate, anyone?


RSM has no hardware as yet, should be with them this week, divs to be paid a week or so later?

marked
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
Psi laju, karavani prolaze.
April 15, 2012, 02:33:13 PM
#11
I am not sure if it is available but it would be interesting to see IPO price for each bond (in BTC/MH).

The bonds had widely divergent IPO prices but given the near fungibility of MH/s (bonds really only differ in trust of principal) we should see the prices converge.  That means under priced IPO showing a profit and over priced IPOs showing a loss.

IPO prices I can confirm:

YABMC 0.3 (my listing)
GIGAMING 1.0 (own shares)

IPO prices I cannot confirm but believe to be correct:

PUREMINING 0.38

Not sure on the others...



Can easily be added, does someone have the rest of the data at hand?
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
Psi laju, karavani prolaze.
April 15, 2012, 02:31:27 PM
#10
JLP-BMD, RSM, and BMMO are missing.

marked

Humm, I added BMMO and JLP-BMD (edited original post), but RSM is a total mess.
Code:
$data[] = array(
'ticker' => 'RSM',
'nbshares' => 1900,
'hashrate' => '',
'pps' => 100,
'note' => '',
);

Not sure if 100pps is correct, but nb of shares is. I am not sure about RSM hashrate, anyone?

legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1000
April 15, 2012, 02:30:44 PM
#9
IPO prices I can confirm:

YABMC 0.3 (my listing)
GIGAMINING 1.0 (own shares)

IPO price I cannot confirm but believe to be correct:

PUREMINING 0.38

Not sure on the others...

vip
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
April 15, 2012, 02:29:20 PM
#8
I am glad to see that even after a 50% increase in price, gigamining is still one of the best values out.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
April 15, 2012, 02:26:00 PM
#7
I am not sure if it is available but it would be interesting to see IPO price for each bond (in BTC/MH).

The bonds had widely divergent IPO prices but given the near fungibility of MH/s (bonds really only differ in trust of principal) we should see the prices converge.  That means under priced IPO showing a profit and over priced IPOs showing a loss.
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1007
April 15, 2012, 02:17:40 PM
#6
Interesting that BFSL has the best $/hash?
What do you mean?

It's cheapest to buy YABMC and it's best to sell FPGA.CONTRACTs, it would be stupid to buy FPGA.CONTRACTs and to sell BFLS shares.

Really looking forward to the GLBSE API! Smiley
Also thanks a lot for sharing your research (and not begging for donations!) @OP, as well as acting responsibly towards GLBSE!
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
April 15, 2012, 02:09:56 PM
#5
Interesting that BFSL has the best $/hash?
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
April 15, 2012, 02:06:39 PM
#4
Nice.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
April 15, 2012, 02:03:00 PM
#3
JLP-BMD, RSM, and BMMO are missing.

marked
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1007
April 15, 2012, 01:51:08 PM
#2
Mergedmining is also selling hash rate more or less, though with a different concept as far as I understood.
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
Psi laju, karavani prolaze.
April 15, 2012, 01:43:26 PM
#1
Hey,

a few minutes and a few lines of code and I got live calc for glbse hashrate prices:

Edit: pic moved to the bottom.


Found it interesting, so im sharing here.

I wont release link here since each refresh does nb_mining_companies requests on GLBSE, but you can get it on irc: #bitcoin-assets - freenode.

If there is some error or smth, let me know.


Its almost impossible to count for all the differences. This is just a general overview and one should do research on his own, before investing, but its not far off.




1.4.

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