Topic: Global Migration of Millionaires. Can Bitcoin change this scenario? (Read 584 times)

Millionaires know how to protect their businesses see what happens to HongKong and millionaires who turn to Cryptocurrency wants an environment where they can freely transact trade and use their shares, it's expected to happen and the one that will benefit are countries that fully support Cryptocurrency, this is the trend and will continue to be.

and that is why it is no surprise why a lot of these elite people are secretly stashing bitcoin. and they can very well do that without alerting anyone, thats the benefit of crypto. however converting it back to fiat may require identities, but right now, i dont think that is their concern.
but i agree from the above point that many dictatorial countries are influenced by these oligarchs. and i guess we are talking a lot of countries on that effect!

Not all. Gadaffi and Saddam managed their country good but then the outside entities like the US are trying to invade these countries. For that to be possible they need to destroy the strong man of the country and misrepresent them like they are the villain to their people.

Look what they are today after Saddam and Gadaffi. It's becoming worse, their country was once strong in terms of economics and military, now they are just peony.  The liberals are doing it again to China.

In many dictatorial countries, millionaires and billionaires are the ones who really rule the country and have a great influence on the heads of state, because it is often the money of these people that brought others to power.
However, I agree with you that all people strive for where they have more freedom. A person always wants to break the shackles or get out of the cage in which they are trying to keep him by force.
Therefore, any dictatorship is doomed. The opposition always becomes the current government in the future, as it strives for freedom.
Bitcoin is an excellent example of how a tool that increases the level of human freedom is gaining more and more popularity amid various restrictions and attempts to restrict it among classical systems.

A tourist from oher country (alien) can own a property 100% in that Schengen area?

That would be a good place to go if only that place would be a peaceful palce to raise a kid. I always wanted to move somewhere and start fresh without the judging eyes of my neighbors and in laws passing all the time my house.  Thailand is a good warn place than Schengen that is why they consider residential visa.

I suppose when it comes to millionaires, there are no questions of value for them. At least in my country, almost all millionaires have dual citizenship, while hiding basic information, since dual citizenship is prohibited in my country. Nevertheless, millionaires will never skimp for their safety, especially when buying citizenship in the Schengen area.

Again, that's a huge waste of money.
You don't need a residence permit. I've helped people buying houses in the Schengen area, all they had was a tourist visa (3 months), and everything was fine. Those people travel all the time, they'll get another visa when they'll come back.

"last legs'?
Half of the world money is in the US.
SP500 (the top 500 companies in US) currently are worth about 50% of world's capitalization (it shows 34% in this graphic, but it may be using different calculation, i know it is about 50%).


https://visual.ly/community/Infographics/economy/top-10-countries-world-stock-market-capitalization

A place where we have silicon valley, where basically all of the world new technologies in the past 20 years where born. Google, Amazon, Apple, and so on... TOp universities, like stanford etc..

They do not have as nearly the problem as any third world country. Millionaires all over the world are migrating to America because it is a free country.

Universal health care, for example, most of third world country have. You have universal health care in Brazil and Cuba. But millionaries are fleeing away from brazil to get treatment in US when they have health problems.

Universal health care, uuniversal incoming for everyone without any job, etc etc, and all those well fare state benefits aren't necessarily good for the economy.
 There is a lot of controversy about that, and often the countries which implement those benefits get broke in a few decades (ofc there are exceptions, and some countries can afford to pay that, but the majority fail)

For example, when you give all those benefits for people who do not work, you are giving incentives for them to keep not work and just parasitizing who does. This is exactly brazil case, where 25% of the population receive money from the government and do not work.

Very interesting infographic, strange to see such a gigantic exodus of millionaires from Turkey in particular—must be due to the incredibly high levels of government corruption there.

Still, even with China loosing 15,000 millionaires per year (I assume the infographic is measuring outflow by year), that's an incredibly tiny fraction of its millionaire-base. I doubt it is adversely affecting the country that much, and since it doesn't show how many new millionaires it gained, it's hard to see if it is net negative.

I don't know why people are heading to America. As far as I'm concerned, the country is on its last legs and is practically a third world country with first world problems. I mean, no universal healthcare?! People dying because they can't afford their damn insulin and anti-cancer medications? That doesn't sound like the greatest country in the world to me.

Also the Yuan is still controlled by government and not trading freely which makes chinese millionaires who have all their wealth lagging behind in comparison to other FIAT currencies. The chinese government doesn't want their currency to appreciate so they will keep it low. Which makes it very interesting to invest outside of China. All around the world rich chinese investors are buying land, apartments and houses in so many different countries. For example in an apartment complex here in Germany half of the apartments where sold to Chinese investors, without them ever seeing the apartment in person. They don't even live here or plan on moving here. The apartments also won't be rented out, they are just empty. It's a storage of value for them in a different currency. Since you won't get any interest from the banks you it's better to just buy real estate because it will likely keep their value or even go up.

Not all of the Chinese nouveau riche have earned their wealth in legal methods. A number of them are gang leaders and smugglers. These people doesn't feel safe in China, as the authorities can arrest them anytime. And countries such as Dominica and Antigua where such people purchase citizenship are actually concerned that the new citizens may include at least some, who have questionable backgrounds.

I don't know whether the data regarding millionaire migration in the opening post can be trusted or not, if that data is true
it is surprising that the Chinese state with a strong economy can occur many millionaires leaving the country. Possible Chinese
government imposes a hefty tax on millionaires in China. So the rich in China feel the government is stealing their money, then
they decide to migrate to countries that have lower taxes. I think Bitcoin is too risky to store large amounts of money, because
the price of Bitcoin is volatile and by moving it into Bitcoin is not the best solution.

That's nature with human behaviors, they won't allow things to happened so before it might be implemented they will move
away and find comforts from other places to continue living a comfortable life.


We are now more civilized and by doing this you those leaders are not thinking or caring for what will be the possible effects
of this kind of acts.


Though sometimes political leaders also needs to stand against those billionaires who are controlling the economy of the
country, but not to the point to go this far.

Lol, if you’re living in a country that wants to take all your years of hard work from you and leave you empty handed, you will be left with no other option than to leave that country and look for a better country that’s going to benefit you.

Countries that are being repressive really don’t know what they are doing, it’s very wrong to be doing such thing and chasing all the rich guys in the country to move to another place. If these millionaires move to another country, they are moving their business with them and that means that there will be increase in unemployment, and the country will be losing.

Passports are expensive. So most of them opt for residence permits, which may come cheaply. For example, if you want EU citizenship then you can purchase passports from Cyprus (€2 million+), Bulgaria (€1 million) or Malta (€1.1 million). But a much cheaper option would be to get a residence permit. For example, Latvia will give you a residence permit, if you are ready to invest just €100,000. With this permit, you can travel freely in the Schengen area. Similar permits are available from dozens of nations, including Spain (€500,000), Switzerland (€1 million), Italy (€500,000).etc.

BTW, if you want the cheapest option, you can opt for the Thailand Elite Residence Visa. It will cost you THB 500,000 ($15,800). A 20-year visa is also available for around THB 2 million ($64,000).

i think we will see ATH and biggest winners will be ones who hold most of the btc.
this is offcourse if we see the ATH .

Interesting data, thanks. But much incomplete. They talk of London and NYC are prime cities to relocate, I'm used to see people from those 2 cities leaving for good...
I don't see many people changing citizenship. In Monaco or Switzerland, there are thousands of foreigners living there. They will never go back to their past home, but they don't need local citizenship. The people I see looking for another citizenship are those from a shitty African country. They want a better passport to travel.

Moving from one country to the other has become very easy nowadays. So the super-rich easily moves from countries with high levels of taxation to those countries where the tax slabs are lower. After a certain threshold, the rich people would be looking to maintain their wealth, rather than to increase it. For such people, off shore tax heavens may look attractive.

Well, think about it this way, you are so rich that you build your own residence, it is a 40 story tall huge building, top two floors are cut down and became one floor with huuuuge ceiling and you are living the best life anyone can dream of, you have butlers you have cleaners you have dry cleaning at your finger tips they come to you and go everyday and basically you do nothing but just enjoy life.

Would that be valuable if the moment you step outside of your house everyone is poor and everything is bad? Being super rich in a third world country means you are just living a good life among very poor people, you have tons of money but not much to spend it on because people around you and in your city can't provide you with anything to purchase. So instead many people become middle income in developed countries instead of super rich in underdeveloped ones.

If you're a millionaire in your country, chances are you're not going to be treated one if you move out. Unless you really have contacts outside, but I doubt that. And those opportunities will not present itself in other territories, you have to seek it out. I think one reason why millionaires are really migrating is to get out from oppression or social injustices.


But if you live in a country wherein Bitcoin is acceptable but there are social injustices, will you still going to stay or migrate somewhere else with your BTC and start a new life with your family?

The data is from here:
https://e.issuu.com/embed.html?u=newworldwealth&d=gwmr_2019

And no, you can't really keep quiet when you change citizenship, those are not expats living abroad, those are people that moved entirely and in most cases for good, besides, the data shows HNWI that were already in their database, people who have not kept a low profile even when they were not thinking of moving out. A lot of companies deal with this kind of data, especially luxury brands and realtors, once a multi-million dollar property changes hand the whole industry knows.



The data is from 2017 and 2018, so ...no!  

If you are a millionaire and legitimately doing business, the only reason you might opt to migrate is due to easy and healthy standard of living that is being offered oversea. Most millionaire that move around do so also to explore new opportunity not because they have big money. Unless they are trying to prevent being charged for money laundering because there is limitation to money you can carry into oversea country. Bitcoin might help them to break the barrier though but the question is will they be able to trust bitcoin ?

The migration of Millionaires might not even be happening because they fear their local country,  it might simply be that they are moving because they can afford to move to first world countries. Most of these Millionaires are invested in global firms and their money is not even invested in their country of origin.   

Yes, if they did not trust their 3rd world governments, they might have moved to another country due to political instability and Bitcoin cannot solve that problem. Most third world countries make use of international Banking groups, so it is not due to insecure Banking institutions...

Economic instability might be a driving factor, because the local currency might devalue too quickly... but as I said, most of these people are invested in global markets and not local Fiat savings. (shares/equities/property etc.)

I wonder where's the data is coming from.
The people like me who travel all the time, or the people who moved to another country, most often, keep quiet about it.

Anyway, BTC helps a lot. Many countries, like China, Morocco or even Montenegro, have strict capital controls. I mean that you have your money in the bank, but if you want to wire money to another country, it must be green-lighted by the country's central bank. Sometimes, it says no, so you're screwed. Unless, you have BTC of course...

I don't think rich people will transfer their assets to bitcoin. Bitcoin is too unstable due to its huge volatility and no one will hold large amounts in it. Accordingly, we are still faced with the Fiat currency and the laws of the state, which are usually very protesting against cryptocurrencies and bitcoin in particular.

What you are saying is that the millionaires are changing countries due to the stricter laws and regulations against cryptocurrency which is absolutely absurd. No one would change their country just because they were not able to invest in one digital asset.

If we talk about people that are involved in the blockchain or IT field, the statement can be considered valid till some point as there were news of blockchain companies moving to Switzerland due to no strict laws against cryptocurrencies. Crypto market is still far from being a multi-trillion market therefore it doesn’t yet concern millionaires or billionaires unless they own a company in IT sector.

If the wealth is known and if you are fighting against the government and if you are living in an authoritarian government you cannot avoid and they will find a way to lock them and we have seen many situation in China where the billionaires are moving to other countries because the government is planning to put them behind bars and if a government wants you behind bars then the only option is to run away from that situation and you can see many billionaires migrating to Europe and other western countries leaving their wealth behind. In these circumstances bitcoin cannot be the ultimate solution but it is possible to convert a percentage of your wealth to bitcoin and move without the authorities noticing it.

Bitcoin is a good idea, but a lot of them might worry about the volatility of Bitcoin, and you know for sure that nobody is ready to move all their money from the bank into Bitcoin. To be sincere, as much as we all want that freedom, we are forgetting that we can’t do the work of a bank. You can’t manage all your money at once in your possession. Imagine that Jeff Bezos the world’s richest man decides to pull all his money keep it in a safe in his house, do you think it will be safe? No it wouldn’t.

There is a kind of protection that banks gives, so you can only store a small amount of your money in Bitcoin. So the best thing these people can do is still to migrate to places that we favor them.

if that is true, then they have anticipated, that the possibility of people will switch to bitcoin, and also the crypto market is not big enough for everyone because it is not up to 1% of all the total valuable assets in the world.
I'm not sure bitcoin will solve this problem globally.

Maybe this is one of the causes of the price of a Bitcoin pump above $ 11,000. Some millionaires move their money into Bitcoin,
so rich people don't need to do global migration. Although this is just my guess, because there is no evidence that rich people
buy bitcoin in large quantities. But Bitcoin can indeed protect millionaire's money and provide financial freedom. Without fear
the government stole their money.

No one is trying to steal anything? Are you sure about this?

A few years back, France had imposed a 75% tax on the super-rich. I would call such steps as daylight robbery. In most of the countries around the world, the rich people pay a higher proportion of their income as taxes, when compared to the others. But this is not right in my opinion. You can't punish someone for their success. Tax rates needs to be uniform for everyone.

I guess the perspective towards global migration being done not just by millionaires but even the ordinary people have no direct relationship to the existence of Bitcoin to make them change their way on not migrating because people do have different desires in life and reasons why they migrate into different places. Mostly reasons are because they were seeking for boundless opportunities that can be found in other places.

Well, there might be reason related to Bitcoin why other people will do migration it is duly because some countries prohibit the usage and existence of cryptocurrencies making people who do really want to use it will get into other countries where it is allowed to be able to use it freely. But that would be an example on how Bitcoin cannot affect a people's decision on just staying up in a single place and never get away. It is because Bitcoin have nothing to do on why people decide to migrate it is duly to the reason that people just have their own reasons for migration and that's it.

I don’t think that millionaires migrating from one country to the other has anything to do with the security of their money. No one’s trying to steal anything and plus they have all the facilities and security at their disposal. They probably move from repressive countries to freer ones to expand their businesses in various horizons and to live a life free of chaos and too much crowd. That’s not a great scenario for the country that is being left behind as it takes the hit on its economy.

Moreover, china will never be able to dominate the world or the international market with such attitude. Many large companies and other organizations that had their base and headquarters in china are already relocating to different countries.

The world has got smaller, with cheap air travel and internet connectivity and the governments are yet to realize it. They can no longer tax the super-rich at insane levels. Because they will just migrate to another country. Remember what happened in France, after François Hollande came up with the 75% super-tax? It was a gigantic failure.

As the situation stands now, the governments can tax the middle-class and the lower-class, until blood comes out from their rear side. But the same strategy is not practical with the super-rich. Nowadays, passports are on sale for as little as $100,000 to $250,000 (I am talking about Dominica, Vanuatu, Antigua and Barbuda, St Kitts, Portugal, Malta.etc). Rather than paying a few millions in tax, these super-rich individuals may just purchase a passport for a fraction of that amount.

You are wrong about that.If you are a millionaire,any authoritarian government can just lock you down and ask for huge "ransom".You can't just move your money outside the country and stay in that country at the same time.
It doesn't matter if your wealth is stored in Bitcoin or any other asset.
Rich people are running away from such countries,because they might go to jail,if they stay.
Pretty interesting infographic though.I'm not sure if this data is correct.There's must be a way we could verify the information.

Global migration is a normal scenario happening in the world for many people are always up into exploring something new and that leads them on getting into other places just to try luck and seek better opportunities that could come along the way of their journey. For sure, that is also one of the reasons why millionaires are getting into global migration for they are looking for better opportunities that can make them gain more profit and somehow expand their properties and businesses as they come along the way of migration.

I think the usage of Bitcoin cannot do a direct impact to change up this scenario because global migration is a normal thing ever since the early ages which brings the people more diversified and people have their own reasons why they do migrate into other places. When it comes to millionaires using Bitcoin so that they can be free to use up their money for fast transaction and to lessen migration, I think there is no significant relation on that because there are still countries who do not allow crypto usage so that could still lead to migration and it is inappropriate to store up a very large amount of money in crypto or digital currencies which is for me is impractical.

There are lots of reasons why a certain individual decides to migrate into other countries most specially at the case of millionaires, surely they are seeking for better opportunities that can be possible to be seen on other places. Millionaires do have really big mind to seek for business concepts making them go far away to put it into reality.

The existence of Bitcoin to be used up as a passage way to make millionaires feer out of government's control on handling their money could be possible but it cannot assure to lessen the possibility of having migration because not all countries do allow usage and existence of cryptocurrencies in their countries so if ever they would try to decide using crypto like Bitcoin in a country like that, they would still be make use of doing migration to be able to use Bitcoin. We cannot control the migration of millionaires since they have their own reasons why they migrate to other places and that is which commonly concern about seeking better to best opportunities. Bitcoin on the other hand could be a possible way if they were just minding to be freer on using their money but still the idea is not that clear how could it be possible and usage of such cannot be an assurance that migration will not take place anymore. 

Your message is not very clear about how btc can make the world a freer place. Here is a more realistic scenario - people leave countries where the crypto is prohibited/does not have a legal status to where it is in a better position and nothing changes in the end. Rich people as they moved to a places that better for them and they will be. Not the rich will continue to sit where they sit because there is no other way out.
Where does BTC make the world a freer place? How? There is still migration from one country to another-is it freedom? Or what?
No one in their right mind would store super-large amounts in btc because it is not predictable. Remember what a war of suicides was after his fall.

No single courthouse implements social justice. And I don't believe either that genuine justice springs forth from two self-assured lawyers superficially arguing against each other and a judge finally acting like a god bringing down a verdict.

If you don't want to give more than your minimum responsibility, then it's all up to you. You shouldn't be forced to give an extra against your will. Even tax avoidance, after all, is completely legal.

However, it is my personal conviction that those who have much, those who can afford to have a gold toilet, should learn to share even at least from their excesses.  


Do you know how this worked in the past?
Total disaster, from the URSS to Zimbabwe, when the poor took from the rich it ended with everyone getting poor! In Zimbabwe, they took the lands from the rich farmers, what happened? The poor died of hunger even though they had their own land! Forced redistribution of wealth is creating more problems that is solving.
Besides, BTC is exactly opposing this, so you can't really be a fan of wealth redistribution and of BTC at the same time.