Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 701. (Read 2032265 times)

Coinbase and Bitstamp are off-chain solution providers, and a different thing entirely.
Might as well lump in Lamborghini, the Federal government and anyone who has a bitcoin wallet and provides a good or service.

Counterparty is open source and on chain, there is no secret sauce proof provider there, except what some individual may negotiate with another p2p.
Yes, I think a proper implementation of side chains would be a best case scenario.
It has incredible implications and can solve a vast array of problems, Bitcoin is the least of it, but a good one, a great one.

It is a VERY tasty bait.  We are looking for where the hooks and line are so that we can best avoid them and enjoy it with gusto.
We may need to nibble before we bite and swallow.

I think that SNARKs is going to see action, for better or worse.  I think the primary customers are going to be governments (and they can pay much more in fiat than Bitcoin can, and also can do things with guns and jails).  It would be nice to have it as a part of private distributed money system as well.  The implementation matters though.

This is a blatant lie.

Blockstream submitted the whitepaper. The community will have to vet the technology and subsequently  make plans for it to be implemented, as a consensus.

SPVproof is neutral open source code. It favors no one. You could argue as cypherdoc does that they have a "head-start" in that they have already assembled a team of highly competent cryptographer to support their business model.

What everyone here fails to ignore is that ANY competitor could've done the same. As you have pointed out the technology was up for grabs and could've been conceptualized and proposed through a white paper by any other team of developers that care enough.

How is SPV federated when the miners do the work!?

Not being done much today? Are you kidding me?

Coinbase, Counterparty, Coloredcoins, Bistamp.

Every exchanges, any "off-chain" schemes present the exact risk I am referring to. The trend is VERY clear in that sense.

Do you not think that these are security concerns and have a HIGH-risk potential to temper with the Bitcoin ledger?

Is it not true that with proper implementations sidechains are a very tempting alternative to these?

and i accept that.  i just don't think it represents the existential danger you're trying to make it out to be and certainly is not to be used as a "reason" to implement spvp.

It institutionalized this trust of a particular company into the protocol.
Or do you think that people should just not use Side Chains?

There should be a better way of doing this.  Maybe that is the federated system?   In the first instance SPV is federated too, and it may always be, there may never be another Blockstream after all.

At the very least, it won't take two days to move funds into and out of them.

Yes we know.  It is the validation of a proof that is EXTERNALLY CREATED.  The Validation and the Proof are coming from the same source, a trusted source until the crypto gets this evaluation.  There are a lot of C operations there, and a lot of math.

I'm comfortable that the core devs that are jumping ship have vetted it to their satisfaction, but then they also have an economic incentive to be satisfied with it as well.

i would much rather use OT federated servers from what i know about it.

what i'm really looking for is a connection of brg444 to Blockstream.  it would explain the all out character assassination mode, afaic.


nice try but i didn't get married until i was 27.

you're dealing with someone who has fought 2 previous long, grueling troll battles in the past supporting Bitcoin:  the gold collapsing debate since Aug 2011 when gold was near its top @1923 and the brutal Bitcoin crash of 2011 from 32-->1.98 against the Bitcoin bears.  this current debate is nothing new for me and is consistent with my past behavior.

...
It is pretty a similar set of requirements for starting another Google.  And I think Blockstream may well be the next Google.  If I were Google, I'd have bought them already.

So there is a dangerous practice that is not really being done today much at all, but theoretically it could be done, and if it were, it might be dangerous.
And that is why we should just do it?

Do you see why this is unconvincing?

:-)  This proof will create user who want exit from SC. Bitcoin miner only verifies this proof. If other user on SC will see it it not valid proof then he can provide valid (with more PoW).

 

You are really arguing Blockstream will be the only one building sidechains on top of SPVproof !?

Blockstream has no code per say, they will write some for clients but SPVproof code is open source.

What's to stop Vitalik and the gang or Peter Todd and the crew from creating Blockstream2-3 when they realise that Blockstream business model is viable and is in fact the future of Bitcoin development.

It doesn't actually do this though.  Not yet at least.  The trusted counterparty being the proof provider.
There are precious few folks that can do a good analysis of that counterparty.  The best anyone else can do is trust the evaluation.

Good cryptography takes some time to evaluate, it is complicated.  They should not expect this to be rushed.

Which code is open?  You mean Bitcoin code, Not Blockstream's, right?

At this time there is no competition.
It is not likely that there will be any competition soon, if ever.
Adding SPV is really only for Blockstream.

Do you know the complexity of setting up a proof system for which these verifications are made?  Look into it.  It is a major effort taking some of the best minds many years and a LOT of computational power.

Bingo!

It institutionalized this trust of a particular company into the protocol.
Or do you think that people should just not use Side Chains?

There should be a better way of doing this.  Maybe that is the federated system?   In the first instance SPV is federated too, and it may always be, there may never be another Blockstream after all.

8. Simplified Payment Verification
It is possible to verify payments without running a full network node

Current situation (without spvp):
 - these same outsiders also may have figured out that Bitcoin is broken and instead of buying in, they will simply bolt onto Bitcoin via ALTCOIN offering some speculative ALT-CURRENCY to trade into and just wait.  
 - they must use "trusted/federated" party to exchange  bitcoin with altcoin or use Appendix C Atomic swaps

SC word situation (with spvp)
 - these same outsiders also may have figured out that Bitcoin is broken and instead of buying in, they will simply bolt onto Bitcoin via the spvp offering some speculative SIDECURENCY to trade into and just wait.
 - now they can use bitcoin-protocol to exchange bitcoin with SIDECURENCY  (but main question is who will want SIDECURENCY when scBTC can provide same functionality)  => It makes only sense if sidecurency can be redeemable for real asset e.g. gold or $ => it is same as buying gold with btc on decentralized exchange.

OP_SIDECHAINPROOFVERIFY only removes dependence on trusted counterparty. => the core problem that bitcoin seeks to solve

hey, it worked didn't it?  

i got his identity within minutes and from the most unlikely of all sources, brg444 himself.  and i didn't have to pay a dime.  btw, the 2 BTC bounty is still open for any evidence, subject to my approval, of a direct link of Alex Berg @bergalex to Blockstream.

it really helps to know who your opponent is. isn't that what Sun Tzu said?  for a moment there, he had me worried i was talking to gmax or luke and i'd actually have to learn something technically.  instead, i now know he really is a 24 yo kid with a shitty job who has only been in Bitcoin for a mere 8mo and who has no perspective on the ups and downs of Bitcoin since Jan 2011 when i got involved (lurking).

hell, when i was 24 yo my career success was baked in the cake.  i was in the middle of my training at the #3 ranked school in the nation for what i do and the #1 research grant recipient for same said school.  i've gone on to reach the absolute apex of my field and in my element i have absolute authority to which ppl have to respond within seconds or else lose their jobs.  i work with the highest and coolest of technologies and enjoy a level of respect from clients only granted to a few select professions.  i love what i do and i have time for Bitcoin, which i also love.

and it didn't come with a silver spoon or connections.  i grew up in a lower, middle class family in a shitty city.  the only way i was going to a quality university was to get a full scholarship out of high school, which i did.  that was the ticket that got my career rolling.

so yeah, it really helps to know who i'm dealing with.

that's reality. unless you want to argue there is no demand for transactions types that are not implementable on Bitcoin's mainchain