Topic: Good News: Avalon ASIC Samples shipped, (sorry for the panic over the weekend) (Read 4494 times)
June 10, 2013, 07:14:04 AM
After issue has been resolved, closing here to let the thread die.
June 10, 2013, 06:57:41 AM
seems to be some miscommunication here.
the people handling this just took all the people who ordered, and sent them 30 chips a person since they finally arrived, I've spoken to them and this issue is addressed, so all should be fine.
of course, the 30 chip per 10,000 rule still holds, it's just they'll show up later.
I mean it's kinda silly to do per address since people would just get more addresses or split their orders into single 10,000 orders...
the people handling this just took all the people who ordered, and sent them 30 chips a person since they finally arrived, I've spoken to them and this issue is addressed, so all should be fine.
of course, the 30 chip per 10,000 rule still holds, it's just they'll show up later.
I mean it's kinda silly to do per address since people would just get more addresses or split their orders into single 10,000 orders...
Great the Sifu has spoken, every 10,000 chip will get 30 sample chip .. probably maybe wait another week, that all
Or two weeks?
June 10, 2013, 06:12:34 AM
seems to be some miscommunication here.
the people handling this just took all the people who ordered, and sent them 30 chips a person since they finally arrived, I've spoken to them and this issue is addressed, so all should be fine.
of course, the 30 chip per 10,000 rule still holds, it's just they'll show up later.
I mean it's kinda silly to do per address since people would just get more addresses or split their orders into single 10,000 orders...
the people handling this just took all the people who ordered, and sent them 30 chips a person since they finally arrived, I've spoken to them and this issue is addressed, so all should be fine.
of course, the 30 chip per 10,000 rule still holds, it's just they'll show up later.
I mean it's kinda silly to do per address since people would just get more addresses or split their orders into single 10,000 orders...
That's great news. Next can you fix zephir's missing order of 10k chips?
June 10, 2013, 05:24:43 AM
Thanks Yifu
June 10, 2013, 04:16:07 AM
...
Plus, without sample chips from each batch to test, who's to say that 1 batch is fine but the rest of the batches are absolute crap with tons of failed chips? I haven't seen anything indicating that Avalon is providing any type of guarantee at all about chips working.
...
On their page (http://store.avalon-asics.com/?product=avalon-asic-chips-10000):Plus, without sample chips from each batch to test, who's to say that 1 batch is fine but the rest of the batches are absolute crap with tons of failed chips? I haven't seen anything indicating that Avalon is providing any type of guarantee at all about chips working.
...
2. the chips being sold are packaged and tested.
June 10, 2013, 03:55:57 AM
.... 
...
...Zefir ... please change the subject in order to prevent potential heart attacks ... seems to be all fine now
one4many
June 10, 2013, 03:52:43 AM
seems to be some miscommunication here.
the people handling this just took all the people who ordered, and sent them 30 chips a person since they finally arrived, I've spoken to them and this issue is addressed, so all should be fine.
of course, the 30 chip per 10,000 rule still holds, it's just they'll show up later.
I mean it's kinda silly to do per address since people would just get more addresses or split their orders into single 10,000 orders...
the people handling this just took all the people who ordered, and sent them 30 chips a person since they finally arrived, I've spoken to them and this issue is addressed, so all should be fine.
of course, the 30 chip per 10,000 rule still holds, it's just they'll show up later.
I mean it's kinda silly to do per address since people would just get more addresses or split their orders into single 10,000 orders...
+1 Whew... thanks for the update.
June 10, 2013, 03:38:39 AM
See, just miscommunication!
And we all got upset. On sunday!
And we all got upset. On sunday!
June 10, 2013, 03:35:24 AM
seems to be some miscommunication here.
the people handling this just took all the people who ordered, and sent them 30 chips a person since they finally arrived, I've spoken to them and this issue is addressed, so all should be fine.
of course, the 30 chip per 10,000 rule still holds, it's just they'll show up later.
I mean it's kinda silly to do per address since people would just get more addresses or split their orders into single 10,000 orders...
the people handling this just took all the people who ordered, and sent them 30 chips a person since they finally arrived, I've spoken to them and this issue is addressed, so all should be fine.
of course, the 30 chip per 10,000 rule still holds, it's just they'll show up later.
I mean it's kinda silly to do per address since people would just get more addresses or split their orders into single 10,000 orders...
Great the Sifu has spoken, every 10,000 chip will get 30 sample chip .. probably maybe wait another week, that all
June 10, 2013, 03:33:05 AM
I was under impression that there are only two distinct designs developing right now, BkkCoins and burnin, and that all other developers are basically cloning their designs. Is this not true? Shouldn't it then be priority to get sample chips to these two? What is the point sending the same amount of sample chips to BkkCoins and some other guy who is waiting for BkkCoins to finish his testing and order the PCB following that design?
I have to agreed on this ...this 2 individuals should be the primary guys with more sample chips
+1 on this. I think the chip delivery should be prioritized so that both of these guys get the bulk of the chips first
Developers of original new designs should get the sample chips first, then assemblers.
June 10, 2013, 03:31:06 AM
seems to be some miscommunication here.
the people handling this just took all the people who ordered, and sent them 30 chips a person since they finally arrived, I've spoken to them and this issue is addressed, so all should be fine.
of course, the 30 chip per 10,000 rule still holds, it's just they'll show up later.
I mean it's kinda silly to do per address since people would just get more addresses or split their orders into single 10,000 orders...
the people handling this just took all the people who ordered, and sent them 30 chips a person since they finally arrived, I've spoken to them and this issue is addressed, so all should be fine.
of course, the 30 chip per 10,000 rule still holds, it's just they'll show up later.
I mean it's kinda silly to do per address since people would just get more addresses or split their orders into single 10,000 orders...
Awesome! Now when will the remaining amount of chips be shipped? I'm still getting the same old message in the account page...
June 10, 2013, 03:29:31 AM
Let's just hope they wont ship the chip orders before "Batch#3 delivered + 3 months".
June 10, 2013, 03:26:58 AM
seems to be some miscommunication here.
the people handling this just took all the people who ordered, and sent them 30 chips a person since they finally arrived, I've spoken to them and this issue is addressed, so all should be fine.
of course, the 30 chip per 10,000 rule still holds, it's just they'll show up later.
I mean it's kinda silly to do per address since people would just get more addresses or split their orders into single 10,000 orders...
the people handling this just took all the people who ordered, and sent them 30 chips a person since they finally arrived, I've spoken to them and this issue is addressed, so all should be fine.
of course, the 30 chip per 10,000 rule still holds, it's just they'll show up later.
I mean it's kinda silly to do per address since people would just get more addresses or split their orders into single 10,000 orders...
June 10, 2013, 03:24:49 AM
Lesson learned... order with a different name each batch you buy.
June 10, 2013, 03:12:48 AM
In order to help out other community driven projects and given that only 30 ASICs samples will be shipped to zefir, we are opting out from the projects list since we will be getting our own batch of 30 samples.
June 10, 2013, 02:04:42 AM
I was under impression that there are only two distinct designs developing right now, BkkCoins and burnin, and that all other developers are basically cloning their designs. Is this not true? Shouldn't it then be priority to get sample chips to these two? What is the point sending the same amount of sample chips to BkkCoins and some other guy who is waiting for BkkCoins to finish his testing and order the PCB following that design?
I have to agreed on this ...this 2 individuals should be the primary guys with more sample chips
+1 on this. I think the chip delivery should be prioritized so that both of these guys get the bulk of the chips first
June 10, 2013, 01:08:55 AM
I think the thing about this that strikes me the most is...
Presuming that they're ordering each order of 10k from TSMC as they come in, aren't sample chips customarily provided by the foundries for customer validation per order?
What is Avalon doing with those sample chips if they're only delivering 1 batch of samples per shipping address, even if that shipping address has put in 5+ separate orders?
Plus, without sample chips from each batch to test, who's to say that 1 batch is fine but the rest of the batches are absolute crap with tons of failed chips? I haven't seen anything indicating that Avalon is providing any type of guarantee at all about chips working. Is there any recourse if a batch of 10k chips has a huge failure rate, like say 25% or higher?
Granted, 30 chips isn't exactly a large sample size to test, but if they provided those per batch, and the devs saw them all being duds, we'd at least have an indication that there might be a problem with the batch and be able to try to communicate with Avalon before the whole order was delivered, in order to see if anything could be done to resolve the situation
Then again, we don't know if the sample chips being provided are coming from Avalon themselves, or if they're part of the order from the foundry that the foundry is releasing to Avalon to validate and they're sending on to us.
Presuming that they're ordering each order of 10k from TSMC as they come in, aren't sample chips customarily provided by the foundries for customer validation per order?
What is Avalon doing with those sample chips if they're only delivering 1 batch of samples per shipping address, even if that shipping address has put in 5+ separate orders?
Plus, without sample chips from each batch to test, who's to say that 1 batch is fine but the rest of the batches are absolute crap with tons of failed chips? I haven't seen anything indicating that Avalon is providing any type of guarantee at all about chips working. Is there any recourse if a batch of 10k chips has a huge failure rate, like say 25% or higher?
Granted, 30 chips isn't exactly a large sample size to test, but if they provided those per batch, and the devs saw them all being duds, we'd at least have an indication that there might be a problem with the batch and be able to try to communicate with Avalon before the whole order was delivered, in order to see if anything could be done to resolve the situation
Then again, we don't know if the sample chips being provided are coming from Avalon themselves, or if they're part of the order from the foundry that the foundry is releasing to Avalon to validate and they're sending on to us.
June 09, 2013, 10:24:21 PM
Indeed very dissapointing...
Same S**T as usual...
Same S**T as usual...
June 09, 2013, 10:21:49 PM
Cmon guys please reward BKK and burnin for there hard work - most of the other clones are scammers who haven't spent any time contributing as much as these 2 guys
June 09, 2013, 10:19:58 PM
I was under impression that there are only two distinct designs developing right now, BkkCoins and burnin, and that all other developers are basically cloning their designs. Is this not true? Shouldn't it then be priority to get sample chips to these two? What is the point sending the same amount of sample chips to BkkCoins and some other guy who is waiting for BkkCoins to finish his testing and order the PCB following that design?
I have to agreed on this ...this 2 individuals should be the primary guys with more sample chips
June 09, 2013, 09:37:13 PM
Why do these preorders always have to be such a clusterfuck?
This is nothing,you want to see a clusterfuck
Try 3 letters 
K N C?
lol i kid i kid
Very close!! Thanks for playing
June 09, 2013, 06:56:12 PM
Why do these preorders always have to be such a clusterfuck?
This is nothing,you want to see a clusterfuck
Try 3 letters 
June 09, 2013, 06:55:35 PM
I was under impression that there are only two distinct designs developing right now, BkkCoins and burnin, and that all other developers are basically cloning their designs. Is this not true? Shouldn't it then be priority to get sample chips to these two? What is the point sending the same amount of sample chips to BkkCoins and some other guy who is waiting for BkkCoins to finish his testing and order the PCB following that design?
June 09, 2013, 06:16:59 PM
Why do these preorders always have to be such a clusterfuck?
June 09, 2013, 06:15:58 PM
I'll just confirm that any info I uncover from testing sample chips will be made freely available. And time permitting if specific tests are requested I'll try to provide answers for them as long as I don't think that chip damage could occur due to testing, or that it interferes with finishing my own tests.
If I had to reduce testing to a level where I was comfortable saying "ok this works", I'd say 2 chips per bank and there is 2 banks on a K16 board, ie. 4 chips. This allows testing the ASIC chain, the result wire-ORing, and nonce range splitting between banks. Having more chips would not help much with testing stacking or multiple K16 chaining as those functions are independent. It possibly could help with detecting timing issues in the code under heavier utilization.
The primary reason to have more test chips would be to test the K16 under heavy power use and heat dissipation and I think that's useful, of course, but will have to be approached according to how many samples I end up receiving. Sure, more would be better and allow more complete testing such that board users/assemblers/mfrs can be more sure that some use conditions won't have problems. If I can't test everything I'll try what I can and probably simulate what I cannot.
(I'll cross post this in the Klondike thread for completeness)
If I had to reduce testing to a level where I was comfortable saying "ok this works", I'd say 2 chips per bank and there is 2 banks on a K16 board, ie. 4 chips. This allows testing the ASIC chain, the result wire-ORing, and nonce range splitting between banks. Having more chips would not help much with testing stacking or multiple K16 chaining as those functions are independent. It possibly could help with detecting timing issues in the code under heavier utilization.
The primary reason to have more test chips would be to test the K16 under heavy power use and heat dissipation and I think that's useful, of course, but will have to be approached according to how many samples I end up receiving. Sure, more would be better and allow more complete testing such that board users/assemblers/mfrs can be more sure that some use conditions won't have problems. If I can't test everything I'll try what I can and probably simulate what I cannot.
(I'll cross post this in the Klondike thread for completeness)
June 09, 2013, 03:21:20 PM
Well,Steamboat says :
Avalon has sent an email stating the samples have shipped. They have also stated each address is only eligible for one batch's worth of sample chips. As soon as the chips arrive, they will be sent to BkkCoins to further development of the Klondike project.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2422470
Whoo hoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'll die laughing if I get a Klondike before my BFL 30GH unit!!!!!!!!!
What would YOU do for a Klondike
Avalon has sent an email stating the samples have shipped. They have also stated each address is only eligible for one batch's worth of sample chips. As soon as the chips arrive, they will be sent to BkkCoins to further development of the Klondike project.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2422470
Whoo hoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'll die laughing if I get a Klondike before my BFL 30GH unit!!!!!!!!!
What would YOU do for a Klondike
June 09, 2013, 03:08:16 PM
Well, at least they shipped some chips.....
I really don't think these companies estimate demand very well (or care about their customers).
I really don't think these companies estimate demand very well (or care about their customers).
June 09, 2013, 03:00:26 PM
i consider it good news overall
June 09, 2013, 02:59:47 PM
This is good news for difficulty.
June 09, 2013, 02:57:51 PM
~300 users, 10+ projects, only 30 chip samples. Very disappointing indeed.
June 09, 2013, 02:45:52 PM
IIRC, Avalon said 30 sample chips per order, then changed it to 30 sample chips per shipping address. If that is true then they can take Avalon to court for breach of contract.
China Good luck with that. Maybe ull have better luck suing BFL.
Lying to make a sale is really common... and Avalon people seem very sincere to me.
I would imagine the escrow agents would sue in their jurisdiction first and then if successful try to get that judgement enforced where the company has assets. That is the usual method for going after international companies.
Without seeing the actual contract terms, it is impossible to know how much leeway Avalon has. Plus, Avalon has $8 million dollars in one bitcoin address and that will buy a lot of lawyers.
June 09, 2013, 02:40:47 PM
They only wrote: "sample chips will be provided 4 weeks into ordering." That leaves room for interpretation...
I really can't believe, that company, which sell product in price of new luxury car, communicate in this way. Also is really shit, that depends, how many addresses you use, and absolutly no matter, how many chips you ordered. Only reason for this behavior is, that there is not competitor on the market yet. Once there will be, it will much improve this kind of approach.
June 09, 2013, 02:39:29 PM
I don't think there's any court case in this, but it's a really shitty thing for Avalon to do. They knew full well what they were implying, and they knew full well how it was interpreted by the market, due to the frenzy of discussion on the topic. They never made any attempt to clarify until well after it was too late for anybody to base their decisions on that information.
REALLY shitty for Avalon to be such tightwads over a set of chips that cost them maybe $100 to manufacture, on $100,000+ orders. Steamboat has organized 5 group buys up to this point. That's over half a million bucks worth of orders, and they're gonna stiff him for $400 worth of chips? Ouch!
That said, they don't appear to have done anything illegal. And even if they did, I've been dealing with the Chinese for long enough to not be surprised by it in the least...
REALLY shitty for Avalon to be such tightwads over a set of chips that cost them maybe $100 to manufacture, on $100,000+ orders. Steamboat has organized 5 group buys up to this point. That's over half a million bucks worth of orders, and they're gonna stiff him for $400 worth of chips? Ouch!
That said, they don't appear to have done anything illegal. And even if they did, I've been dealing with the Chinese for long enough to not be surprised by it in the least...
June 09, 2013, 02:38:34 PM
IIRC, Avalon said 30 sample chips per order, then changed it to 30 sample chips per shipping address. If that is true then they can take Avalon to court for breach of contract.
China Good luck with that. Maybe ull have better luck suing BFL.
Lying to make a sale is really common... and Avalon people seem very sincere to me.
June 09, 2013, 02:33:05 PM
I think we should just trust the group buy owners to co-ordinate and distribute the samples among the developers they think has the greatest chance of making good use of them.
If 2 groups are designing 16 chip boards, how can you distribute 30 chips to them equitably?
I think the escrow folks are going to have to put the screws to Avalon for more samples, or ask for their money back.
At least there are samples. 2 steps forward, 1 back.
The escrow folks have zero pull here. The arrangements for escrow were between the group buy organizers and participants. Once the orders were full, the payment was made directly to Avalon. Escrow agents can do nothing about it. Payment's been made.
IIRC, Avalon said 30 sample chips per order, then changed it to 30 sample chips per shipping address. If that is true then they can take Avalon to court for breach of contract.
They only wrote: "sample chips will be provided 4 weeks into ordering." That leaves room for interpretation...
June 09, 2013, 02:26:32 PM
I think we should just trust the group buy owners to co-ordinate and distribute the samples among the developers they think has the greatest chance of making good use of them.
If 2 groups are designing 16 chip boards, how can you distribute 30 chips to them equitably?
I think the escrow folks are going to have to put the screws to Avalon for more samples, or ask for their money back.
At least there are samples. 2 steps forward, 1 back.
The escrow folks have zero pull here. The arrangements for escrow were between the group buy organizers and participants. Once the orders were full, the payment was made directly to Avalon. Escrow agents can do nothing about it. Payment's been made.
IIRC, Avalon said 30 sample chips per order, then changed it to 30 sample chips per shipping address. If that is true then they can take Avalon to court for breach of contract.
June 09, 2013, 02:21:58 PM
I think we should just trust the group buy owners to co-ordinate and distribute the samples among the developers they think has the greatest chance of making good use of them.
If 2 groups are designing 16 chip boards, how can you distribute 30 chips to them equitably?
I think the escrow folks are going to have to put the screws to Avalon for more samples, or ask for their money back.
At least there are samples. 2 steps forward, 1 back.
[/quote
The escrow folks have zero pull here. The arrangements for escrow were between the group buy organizers and participants. Once the orders were full, the payment was made directly to Avalon. Escrow agents can do nothing about it. Payment's been made.
June 09, 2013, 02:21:43 PM
I don't have an exact count but aren't there like 4-5 groupbuys? those that come out of my mind are zefir, t13hyda, biswoo (or someting like that), sebastianju, steamboat
That should give like 120-150 samples, maybe each group buy could support atleast one developer?
That should give like 120-150 samples, maybe each group buy could support atleast one developer?
June 09, 2013, 02:17:41 PM
I think we should just trust the group buy owners to co-ordinate and distribute the samples among the developers they think has the greatest chance of making good use of them.
If 2 groups are designing 16 chip boards, how can you distribute 30 chips to them equitably?
I think the escrow folks are going to have to put the screws to Avalon for more samples, or ask for their money back.
At least there are samples. 2 steps forward, 1 back.
June 09, 2013, 02:06:37 PM
Very disappointing indeed.
If there's room for just one to come my way. I would really appreciate it.
thanks,
Allten
If there's room for just one to come my way. I would really appreciate it.
thanks,
Allten
June 09, 2013, 01:48:20 PM
I think we should just trust the group buy owners to co-ordinate and distribute the samples among the developers they think has the greatest chance of making good use of them.
June 09, 2013, 01:47:43 PM
That's a bit shee-ty but it was really a bonus
but it was really a bonus 
June 09, 2013, 01:40:47 PM
I need only one chip, a single chip, to verify a clone I am building based on Avalon published data. At the logical level, I can model the chips on a hashing unit, and run that model using another Spartan FPGA, but it would take time to produce even just a logical-level model.
If it is difficult for me, building just a clone of the original Avalon design, what more for those who are trying to come up with their own design, like Bkkcoin's Klondike.
If it is difficult for me, building just a clone of the original Avalon design, what more for those who are trying to come up with their own design, like Bkkcoin's Klondike.
June 09, 2013, 01:00:41 PM
Maybe the developers that do get the chips can share chip application information with everyone.
The Avalon data sheet left out a lot of information that can be acquired by developers applying the chip to their designs.
Hopefully some developers will share lessons learned with the community.
The Avalon data sheet left out a lot of information that can be acquired by developers applying the chip to their designs.
Hopefully some developers will share lessons learned with the community.
June 09, 2013, 12:59:36 PM
Folks, miners and Avalon ASIC board developers,
I just got emailed from Avalon that the sample chips for the ASIC chips ordered are shipped. Even received an EMS shipping number, great news!
But I was also informed that only one set of sample chips will be delivered to one receiver address, which essentially means that you will receive 30 samples, no matter if you ordered 10k or 200k chips.
Given that I did the group buy with 70k chips for almost 300 users and there are at least 10 projects working on mining boards and desperately awaiting the samples for validation, this is disastrous news. It means that only one or two of them will be given the chance to finalize their design before chips arrive.
Very disappointing
I just got emailed from Avalon that the sample chips for the ASIC chips ordered are shipped. Even received an EMS shipping number, great news!
But I was also informed that only one set of sample chips will be delivered to one receiver address, which essentially means that you will receive 30 samples, no matter if you ordered 10k or 200k chips.
Given that I did the group buy with 70k chips for almost 300 users and there are at least 10 projects working on mining boards and desperately awaiting the samples for validation, this is disastrous news. It means that only one or two of them will be given the chance to finalize their design before chips arrive.
Very disappointing
Ouch. That is going to leave a mark.
June 09, 2013, 12:57:38 PM
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2421403
The result will most probably be for my group buy: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2422271
The result will most probably be for my group buy: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2422271
June 09, 2013, 12:54:46 PM
Edit:
BitSyncom clarified that this was a miscommunication here and sample chips will be in fact provided per 10k batch.
Sorry for causing panic over the weekend.
Folks, miners and Avalon ASIC board developers,
I just got emailed from Avalon that the sample chips for the ASIC chips ordered are shipped. Even received an EMS shipping number, great news!
But I was also informed that only one set of sample chips will be delivered to one receiver address, which essentially means that you will receive 30 samples, no matter if you ordered 10k or 200k chips.
Given that I did the group buy with 70k chips for almost 300 users and there are at least 10 projects working on mining boards and desperately awaiting the samples for validation, this is disastrous news. It means that only one or two of them will be given the chance to finalize their design before chips arrive.
Very disappointing
BitSyncom clarified that this was a miscommunication here and sample chips will be in fact provided per 10k batch.
Sorry for causing panic over the weekend.
Folks, miners and Avalon ASIC board developers,
I just got emailed from Avalon that the sample chips for the ASIC chips ordered are shipped. Even received an EMS shipping number, great news!
But I was also informed that only one set of sample chips will be delivered to one receiver address, which essentially means that you will receive 30 samples, no matter if you ordered 10k or 200k chips.
Given that I did the group buy with 70k chips for almost 300 users and there are at least 10 projects working on mining boards and desperately awaiting the samples for validation, this is disastrous news. It means that only one or two of them will be given the chance to finalize their design before chips arrive.
Very disappointing
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