Well, same thing is going on with the climate as well if you know the subject. Right now oil companies are trying to bribe everyone they could ever bribe and they want to make as much profit as they can in the next 10 years without caring about the climate, think about it there is really nothing they can do to help the climate change right now and global warming will continue as long as oil companies do what they do, renewable energy is a must in the world and the pollution is something we should care direly.
Yet the companies who cause that pollution not only do not stop but they are growing bigger because they want to make a lot more profit this year instead of caring about the earth itself in the next 10 years. We are talking about people preferring money right now over END OF ALL HUMANITY, it is like a joke when you say it but it is true.
Topic: Grayscale Buys 800% More Bitcoin Compared to Q1 2019 (Read 995 times)
Grayscale buys the BTC then holds them but surely the actual bullish trend would be natural users and rising usage not buy and hold by itself. I relate Grayscale to this vid on diversification I saw earlier about a kind of bucket of investments held by larger capital entities in the economy. Unfortunately an accumulation can reverse but I've got far more confidence in a rising population of direct users, the incidental usage though small I think is more likely to last longer term.
Without the altruism of the people in the beginning, there would be no Bitcoin Network. Plus if out of self-interest, everyone junked Core, and supported S2X and it destroyed the network, then how can Bitcoin enrich them? Or anyone.
"They" should TAKE CARE of the network that enriches them, not risk destroying it out of self-interest.
"They" should TAKE CARE of the network that enriches them, not risk destroying it out of self-interest.
They should, but it's well understood why they don't:
Quote
The commons dilemma is a specific class of social dilemma in which people's short-term selfish interests are at odds with long-term group interests and the common good.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons#Commons_dilemma
Companies like Bitpay and Grayscale and Blockchain are all in it for short term selfish interests. Big blocks fed those interests. Whether they were long term sustainable was of little concern.
But being a company dealing in Bitcoin puts them in a unique position. If they continue on being selfish, they slowly kill the thing that enriches them, killing themselves. If they partly be altruistic, and act for the interest of improving, and helping the protocol, they expand and enrich themselves further.
What would be gone? Without the altruism of the people in the beginning, there would be no Bitcoin Network. Plus if out of self-interest, everyone junked Core, and supported S2X and it destroyed the network, then how can Bitcoin enrich them? Or anyone.
"They" should TAKE CARE of the network that enriches them, not risk destroying it out of self-interest.
"They" should TAKE CARE of the network that enriches them, not risk destroying it out of self-interest.
I applaud those who were here at the beginning. And there are enough who are still looking out for its well being. But that isn't automatically altruistic either. The people who were here first saw its potential and what it meant for the future, both their own and others. Even if there were no financial incentive at the beginning there was a technical, political and philosophical one.
S2X wasn't supported because it was a clear failure before it even got going. There would've been forks going off all over the place. And when someone ran the actual code it immediately broke. The majority's self interest in keeping things intact outweighed the self interest of the people trying to bone it.
That is the prime factor that will keep the system healthy.
Without the altruism of the people in the beginning, there would be no Bitcoin Network. Plus if out of self-interest, everyone junked Core, and supported S2X and it destroyed the network, then how can Bitcoin enrich them? Or anyone.
"They" should TAKE CARE of the network that enriches them, not risk destroying it out of self-interest.
"They" should TAKE CARE of the network that enriches them, not risk destroying it out of self-interest.
They should, but it's well understood why they don't:
Quote
The commons dilemma is a specific class of social dilemma in which people's short-term selfish interests are at odds with long-term group interests and the common good.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons#Commons_dilemma
Companies like Bitpay and Grayscale and Blockchain are all in it for short term selfish interests. Big blocks fed those interests. Whether they were long term sustainable was of little concern.
No, I expect him, a Bitcoin CEO who wants to be enriched in Bitcoin, to not discredit Bitcoin, but help Bitcoin thrive and scale, not conspire with other CEOs and some miners to hard fork the network to a centralizing upgrade, without considering the community.
Bitcoin is all about self interest. If it wasn't and it depended on altruism or the consideration of others it would be long gone.
His self interest did not align with the majority's self interest. The S2X crew might just have believed they were doing us some sort of favour. No one else agreed and that cabal got schooled because of it. That's how it should be and that's how it is.
To the point brutality gets the job done and educates the naughty at the same time.
What would be gone? Without the altruism of the people in the beginning, there would be no Bitcoin Network. Plus if out of self-interest, everyone junked Core, and supported S2X and it destroyed the network, then how can Bitcoin enrich them? Or anyone.
"They" should TAKE CARE of the network that enriches them, not risk destroying it out of self-interest.
You expect Barry to shill his Bitcoin fund and not his shitcoin funds? Wishful thinking. 
Crypto Twitter was not impressed with the commercial either: ‘This Ad Is Shit’: Bitcoiners on Grayscale’s New TV Spot
Crypto Twitter was not impressed with the commercial either: ‘This Ad Is Shit’: Bitcoiners on Grayscale’s New TV Spot
No, I expect him, a Bitcoin CEO who wants to be enriched in Bitcoin, to not discredit Bitcoin, but help Bitcoin thrive and scale, not conspire with other CEOs and some miners to hard fork the network to a centralizing upgrade, without considering the community.
Such high hopes considering you obviously know Barry's history. He's looking out for his company and his portfolio, nothing more.
My theory about these high GBTC inflows (institutional arbitrage) seems to be catching on:
Quote
While Grayscale’s inflows are certainly a sign of institutional interest, also backed by other data sets like CME’s Bitcoin futures Open Interest, some worry these inflows may be exacerbated by accredited investors taking advantage of the premium between the underlying asset and the fund’s share price.
According to Grayscale’s latest filing with the U.S. Security and Exchange Commission, the number of shares sold increased 90% from the first quarter of the year to the second, which equates to the fund issuing over 87 million shares.
It’s also worth noting that Grayscale shares are traded at a premium that fluctuates, and in July, it reportedly decreased to 10%.
Lanre Jonathan Ige, a researcher at Amun AG, told Cointelegraph that the premiums exist “due to the lack of the ability to create shares on a daily basis (or redeem shares) like in the case of ETPs/ETFs.” He added:
“There’s untapped demand for Bitcoin in the US market from those with tax-advantaged accounts like retirement accounts whose only option in BTC (some may not properly even understand the drastic premium for GBTC) so they maintain the demand for GBTC which boosts the premium. Smart investors are able to (of sorts) generate yields equal to the GBTC premium with knowledge the premium is unlikely to fall; or even hedge GBTC exposure by also shorting GBTC when they’ve created new shares.”
According to Grayscale’s latest filing with the U.S. Security and Exchange Commission, the number of shares sold increased 90% from the first quarter of the year to the second, which equates to the fund issuing over 87 million shares.
It’s also worth noting that Grayscale shares are traded at a premium that fluctuates, and in July, it reportedly decreased to 10%.
Lanre Jonathan Ige, a researcher at Amun AG, told Cointelegraph that the premiums exist “due to the lack of the ability to create shares on a daily basis (or redeem shares) like in the case of ETPs/ETFs.” He added:
“There’s untapped demand for Bitcoin in the US market from those with tax-advantaged accounts like retirement accounts whose only option in BTC (some may not properly even understand the drastic premium for GBTC) so they maintain the demand for GBTC which boosts the premium. Smart investors are able to (of sorts) generate yields equal to the GBTC premium with knowledge the premium is unlikely to fall; or even hedge GBTC exposure by also shorting GBTC when they’ve created new shares.”
https://cointelegraph.com/news/interest-in-grayscale-crypto-products-not-easing-up-not-just-btc-now
The fact that Grayscale has doubled its investment in cryptocurrency after the halving of 2020 may be one of those circumstances that directly hint at the upcoming bull run, which always happened after the halving, as evidenced by the historical data of last year's halving. In addition, the fact that Wall Street is interested in bitcoin is already a very good indicator for the entire cryptocurrency market.
No, I expect him, a Bitcoin CEO who wants to be enriched in Bitcoin, to not discredit Bitcoin, but help Bitcoin thrive and scale, not conspire with other CEOs and some miners to hard fork the network to a centralizing upgrade, without considering the community.
Bitcoin is all about self interest. If it wasn't and it depended on altruism or the consideration of others it would be long gone.
His self interest did not align with the majority's self interest. The S2X crew might just have believed they were doing us some sort of favour. No one else agreed and that cabal got schooled because of it. That's how it should be and that's how it is.
To the point brutality gets the job done and educates the naughty at the same time.
What a disappointment. Looks like a Youtube video any child could have produced. Trying to explain the entire history of money in 30 seconds? No surprise it came out so badly! It really lacks any sort of punch or cohesive messaging.
I much preferred the "dump gold, buy Bitcoin" campaign they ran a few years ago. Way more aesthetically pleasing and a much more clear and cohesive message.
I much preferred the "dump gold, buy Bitcoin" campaign they ran a few years ago. Way more aesthetically pleasing and a much more clear and cohesive message.
It was OK in my opinion. I believe Nick Szabo would approve of the presention, but not of the part when it starts to shill Barry Silbert's shitcoin funds. The shitcoin funds shill discredited Bitcoin, and its role in the history of money.
You expect Barry to shill his Bitcoin fund and not his shitcoin funds? Wishful thinking.
Crypto Twitter was not impressed with the commercial either: ‘This Ad Is Shit’: Bitcoiners on Grayscale’s New TV Spot
No, I expect him, a Bitcoin CEO who wants to be enriched in Bitcoin, to not discredit Bitcoin, but help Bitcoin thrive and scale, not conspire with other CEOs and some miners to hard fork the network to a centralizing upgrade, without considering the community.
What a disappointment. Looks like a Youtube video any child could have produced. Trying to explain the entire history of money in 30 seconds? No surprise it came out so badly! It really lacks any sort of punch or cohesive messaging.
I much preferred the "dump gold, buy Bitcoin" campaign they ran a few years ago. Way more aesthetically pleasing and a much more clear and cohesive message.
I much preferred the "dump gold, buy Bitcoin" campaign they ran a few years ago. Way more aesthetically pleasing and a much more clear and cohesive message.
It was OK in my opinion. I believe Nick Szabo would approve of the presention, but not of the part when it starts to shill Barry Silbert's shitcoin funds. The shitcoin funds shill discredited Bitcoin, and its role in the history of money.
You expect Barry to shill his Bitcoin fund and not his shitcoin funds? Wishful thinking.
Crypto Twitter was not impressed with the commercial either: ‘This Ad Is Shit’: Bitcoiners on Grayscale’s New TV Spot
Presenting Barry Silbert's campaign commercial for bitcoin.
https://twitter.com/sonnenshein/status/1292792512780947457?s=21
As a person who knows the history, I was shaking my head and I felt a little embarassed after I saw names of altcoins BCH, Zcash , Ripple, Stellar, Ethereum, Ethereum Classic in there. The commercial has nice music, however hehehe.
https://twitter.com/sonnenshein/status/1292792512780947457?s=21
As a person who knows the history, I was shaking my head and I felt a little embarassed after I saw names of altcoins BCH, Zcash , Ripple, Stellar, Ethereum, Ethereum Classic in there. The commercial has nice music, however hehehe.
What a disappointment. Looks like a Youtube video any child could have produced. Trying to explain the entire history of money in 30 seconds? No surprise it came out so badly! It really lacks any sort of punch or cohesive messaging.
I much preferred the "dump gold, buy Bitcoin" campaign they ran a few years ago. Way more aesthetically pleasing and a much more clear and cohesive message.
It was OK in my opinion. I believe Nick Szabo would approve of the presention, but not of the part when it starts to shill Barry Silbert's shitcoin funds. The shitcoin funds shill discredited Bitcoin, and its role in the history of money.
Presenting Barry Silbert's campaign commercial for bitcoin.
https://twitter.com/sonnenshein/status/1292792512780947457?s=21
As a person who knows the history, I was shaking my head and I felt a little embarassed after I saw names of altcoins BCH, Zcash , Ripple, Stellar, Ethereum, Ethereum Classic in there. The commercial has nice music, however hehehe.
https://twitter.com/sonnenshein/status/1292792512780947457?s=21
As a person who knows the history, I was shaking my head and I felt a little embarassed after I saw names of altcoins BCH, Zcash , Ripple, Stellar, Ethereum, Ethereum Classic in there. The commercial has nice music, however hehehe.
What a disappointment. Looks like a Youtube video any child could have produced. Trying to explain the entire history of money in 30 seconds? No surprise it came out so badly! It really lacks any sort of punch or cohesive messaging.
I much preferred the "dump gold, buy Bitcoin" campaign they ran a few years ago. Way more aesthetically pleasing and a much more clear and cohesive message.
Business usual from Barry Silbert, instigator of the New York Agreement, that brought forth Segwit2x. 
If I was in the business of making money from this I would recognise that a vast chunk of it, likely the majority, is going to be shitcoin demand because it's 'cheaper'. That's how humans work.
Presenting Barry Silbert's campaign commercial for bitcoin.
https://twitter.com/sonnenshein/status/1292792512780947457?s=21
As a person who knows the history, I was shaking my head and I felt a little embarassed after I saw names of altcoins BCH, Zcash , Ripple, Stellar, Ethereum, Ethereum Classic in there. The commercial has nice music, however hehehe.
https://twitter.com/sonnenshein/status/1292792512780947457?s=21
As a person who knows the history, I was shaking my head and I felt a little embarassed after I saw names of altcoins BCH, Zcash , Ripple, Stellar, Ethereum, Ethereum Classic in there. The commercial has nice music, however hehehe.
It rightly criticized fiat, and the modern financial system, but it didn't mention Bitcoin, it mentioned "digital currencies" and to invest in Grayscale's derivatives for shitcoins.
Business usual from Barry Silbert, instigator of the New York Agreement, that brought forth Segwit2x.
Presenting Barry Silbert's campaign commercial for bitcoin.
https://twitter.com/sonnenshein/status/1292792512780947457?s=21
As a person who knows the history, I was shaking my head and I felt a little embarassed after I saw names of altcoins BCH, Zcash , Ripple, Stellar, Ethereum, Ethereum Classic in there. The commercial has nice music, however hehehe.
https://twitter.com/sonnenshein/status/1292792512780947457?s=21
As a person who knows the history, I was shaking my head and I felt a little embarassed after I saw names of altcoins BCH, Zcash , Ripple, Stellar, Ethereum, Ethereum Classic in there. The commercial has nice music, however hehehe.
It appears that Barry Silbert's wallets are full. He will begin step 2 next week. The mainstream media hype and pump campaign hehehe.
Where is Tom Lee hehe.
Are you ready? @Grayscale's national ad campaign kicks off next week with a TV ad on CNBC, MSNBC, FOX, and FOX Business. We're going to brrring crypto to the masses
Source https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/1291710737291841543
Where is Tom Lee hehe.
Are you ready? @Grayscale's national ad campaign kicks off next week with a TV ad on CNBC, MSNBC, FOX, and FOX Business. We're going to brrring crypto to the masses
Source https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/1291710737291841543
I remember grayscale also had that huge marketing campaign about digital gold right? Where people were running around in wheelbarrows buying gold but I thought it was silly because most people I know can't even afford to buy 1 whole kilo of gold and with the price now ATH, even more impossible.
And yes, where is Tom Lee??
@Febo. However, has Barry Silbert unloaded before? It might be a mistake. He should unload his altcoins first, I reckon. He is one of the biggest investors of the 51% attackers' favorite Ethereum Classic hehehhe.
It appears that Barry Silbert's wallets are full. He will begin step 2 next week. The mainstream media hype and pump campaign hehehe.
Where is Tom Lee hehe.
Are you ready? @Grayscale's national ad campaign kicks off next week with a TV ad on CNBC, MSNBC, FOX, and FOX Business. We're going to brrring crypto to the masses
Source https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/1291710737291841543
Where is Tom Lee hehe.
Are you ready? @Grayscale's national ad campaign kicks off next week with a TV ad on CNBC, MSNBC, FOX, and FOX Business. We're going to brrring crypto to the masses
Source https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/1291710737291841543
Yup he bought in March and April when Bitcoin was cheap, now will unload. Smart to first build hype on TV and other media.
Honestly I am fine with people buying into grayscale and their fee's, if that means that people would be more interested with bitcoin so be it, let them pay more fee, as long as they get into bitcoin I do not care how they do. This company is the only company we are aware that publicly states how much bitcoin they are investing and how much they like bitcoin, maybe the giants like JP Morgan does too but we do not see them publicly saying how many bitcoins they have do we?
Hence, I think this grayscale is the richest bitcoin lover in the world for now until some other one comes up and says how many bitcoins they own. This also shows people that when a big company gets into bitcoin they do not just buy a bit, they buy so much that they could change the market with one move if they want to.
Hence, I think this grayscale is the richest bitcoin lover in the world for now until some other one comes up and says how many bitcoins they own. This also shows people that when a big company gets into bitcoin they do not just buy a bit, they buy so much that they could change the market with one move if they want to.
Are you ready? @Grayscale's national ad campaign kicks off next week with a TV ad on CNBC, MSNBC, FOX, and FOX Business. We're going to brrring crypto to the masses
Source https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/1291710737291841543
Source https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/1291710737291841543
Well I sure hope they don't buy into GBTC with its atrocious 2% management fee.
Not to mention a dangerous premium that will decline as more regulated options come on board.
I'm looking forward to the launch of Wilshire Phoenix's BTC fund. It'll have a 0.9% management fee and unlike GBTC, it will actually offer a redemption program to keep prices pegged to spot. https://cointelegraph.com/news/exclusive-wilshire-differentiates-its-fund-from-grayscale-says-investors-deserve-more
This actually smells a bit like Barry's exit pump.
Don't take this as a proof that price will riae strongly. The fact that some financial institution is buying Bitcoin doesn't have to mean anything. Besides they can also nake wrong estimation. What I want to say is that the news like that shouldn't be the ground for your decision whether to buy or sell.
It appears that Barry Silbert's wallets are full. He will begin step 2 next week. The mainstream media hype and pump campaign hehehe.
Where is Tom Lee hehe.
Are you ready? @Grayscale's national ad campaign kicks off next week with a TV ad on CNBC, MSNBC, FOX, and FOX Business. We're going to brrring crypto to the masses
Source https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/1291710737291841543
Where is Tom Lee hehe.
Are you ready? @Grayscale's national ad campaign kicks off next week with a TV ad on CNBC, MSNBC, FOX, and FOX Business. We're going to brrring crypto to the masses
Source https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/1291710737291841543
I took a closer look at the GBTC chart vs. BTCUSD and noticed the GBTC premium has been falling quite a bit recently. It's dropped in half since February alongside these big inflows.
I think there is increasing pressure to arbitrage the GBTC price. Even given the 1-year lockup period, a 30% premium (that's what it was at the Febuary peak) is just ridiculous not to arbitrage in a market with increasing regulated options at lower carry costs.
As one example, institutions could short GBTC while it's trading at a huge premium while buying shares at a discount (the NAV price) during private placements.
If this explains the increased volume, then we can probably expect the volume to die down (and maybe Grayscale's overall holdings to decrease as well) once the premium is no longer worth arbitraging.
https://cointelegraph.com/news/what-does-grayscales-gbtc-falling-premium-tell-us-about-bitcoin-price
I've been struggling to find an explanation since GBTC is so unattractive as an investment with its ridiculous premiums and 2% management fee. This is the best I can come up with.
I think there is increasing pressure to arbitrage the GBTC price. Even given the 1-year lockup period, a 30% premium (that's what it was at the Febuary peak) is just ridiculous not to arbitrage in a market with increasing regulated options at lower carry costs.
As one example, institutions could short GBTC while it's trading at a huge premium while buying shares at a discount (the NAV price) during private placements.
If this explains the increased volume, then we can probably expect the volume to die down (and maybe Grayscale's overall holdings to decrease as well) once the premium is no longer worth arbitraging.
https://cointelegraph.com/news/what-does-grayscales-gbtc-falling-premium-tell-us-about-bitcoin-price
I've been struggling to find an explanation since GBTC is so unattractive as an investment with its ridiculous premiums and 2% management fee. This is the best I can come up with.
This is OTC we are talking about, we could NEVER learn how much is going on, so we can't even make a guess or a prediction about what would happen if it was online and on places like coinbase or something that we could see. OTC will be done because lets face it these companies are dealing with too much money and if they didn't used OTC for it they would have disturbed the market a ton.
Think about grayscale actually buying from coinbase which means they are buying from you and me, they would increase the price a ton when buying and would have to buy for more money, this way they could pay the market price and a bit more maybe to buy tens of millions of dollars without changing the price at all. It is all a sensitive subject that has to be hidden from the market until after it is done.
Think about grayscale actually buying from coinbase which means they are buying from you and me, they would increase the price a ton when buying and would have to buy for more money, this way they could pay the market price and a bit more maybe to buy tens of millions of dollars without changing the price at all. It is all a sensitive subject that has to be hidden from the market until after it is done.
One thing I didn't bother to check is who is buying all their GBTC shares.
This is slightly old but gives an idea - https://medium.com/grayscale-investments/strongest-quarter-ever-81035e384ee6
84% of inflows has been primarily from hedge funds. On one hand that's cool that institutional interest is rising, on the other many will be clueless and twitchy bitches who'll run for the door given half the chance. That delay in selling might stop that but that level of their involvement could be a double edged sword.
This is slightly old but gives an idea - https://medium.com/grayscale-investments/strongest-quarter-ever-81035e384ee6
84% of inflows has been primarily from hedge funds. On one hand that's cool that institutional interest is rising, on the other many will be clueless and twitchy bitches who'll run for the door given half the chance. That delay in selling might stop that but that level of their involvement could be a double edged sword.
Update; Greyscale are not slowing down as they have accumulated 9,503 more bitcoins since the most recent report, this is also more than the amount of bitcoins mined within that period. At an average rate of 10 minutes per block; 6,300BTC gets mined each week.
Some would say, an incredible appetite for Bitcoin by Grayscale, and also raises the question of how long they will continue at this rate of investment? What is certainly in their favor is the possibility of OTC purchase, because as we see it almost has no effect on the price. What many are interested in is how big the OTC market actually is, and this is certainly not a question that has any exact answer.
According to some research from 2018 by Bloomberg, daily crypto OTC market was "anywhere between $250 million and $30 billion per day", and volume on exchanges was $15 billion. If this is somewhat true, then the OTC bag is quite deep and Grayscale and similar investors have a great opportunity to buy large quantities of BTC without directly affecting the price. Who knows, maybe they've been doing it for years, as some have speculated.
To get some clarity, are you suggesting that OTC trades limits the trades that otherwise would have happened on the open market, and the volume being bought by Grayscale, would take up most of the OTC stash driving other than that who would have purchased over the counter to the open market?
Yes. If the OTC market didn't exist at all all of these people would be on exchanges.
We have no idea how big the OTC market is so there's no way of knowing how much availability Grayscale are hogging, but it must be a significant uptick compared to the past. I don't remember them buying this furiously in the past.
Sometimes there just isn't enough OTC to go round. Available supply is finite. Most of it has to be prised out of someone who already owns it. Sometimes you'll have to go to an exchange no matter what if you're hungry to buy.
This trades happen OTC, so there's no significant impact on the market price, but as Greyscale continues to add to their Bitcoin AUM, this could attract other institutional investments?
It's impossible to quantify but there will be an effect. OTC means open market trades that otherwise would've happened don't. And the volume of Grayscale's buying means other would-be OTC buyers have to go to the open market as they've been driven to it.
Update; Greyscale are not slowing down as they have accumulated 9,503 more bitcoins since the most recent report, this is also more than the amount of bitcoins mined within that period. At an average rate of 10 minutes per block; 6,300BTC gets mined each week.
This trades happen OTC, so there's no significant impact on the market price, but as Greyscale continues to add to their Bitcoin AUM, this could attract other institutional investments?
This trades happen OTC, so there's no significant impact on the market price, but as Greyscale continues to add to their Bitcoin AUM, this could attract other institutional investments?
Grayscale is buying Bitcoin at the current market value and has no regards with having a margin of safety in their orders? Can this mean something? Like are we headed into a big pump that is why they are confident at buying at these levels? Or are they buying all of these in a participation of a short so they can profit more all the way down? Either way these news about them buying more than the currently new mined BTC doesn't give us a straight answer on what the future price will be for Bitcoin since we don't even know how Grayscale will play out their current Bitcoin holdings.
There is no guarantee that the price of bitcoin would rally because some financial institute is investing in bitcoin thinking that the price would rally. I bet there are other financial investors investing in bitcoin whenever the price goes down thinking that they could make a huge profit when the price rallies.These investments are not meant to hold the coins for a decade and they only want to book the profit when the price rallies.
All they need to achieve is a cool +10% and they have achieved their yearly target.
Don't you think that all the btc purchases done by greyscale now ($9-$9.6k) won't be counterbalanced by the price of BTC being $10-10.5k in the next 3 to 6 months?
Allowing them to sell their assets and make their yearly target.
They are an investment company, they invest to make money, not to change the world.
Grayscale is buying Bitcoin at the current market value and has no regards with having a margin of safety in their orders? Can this mean something? Like are we headed into a big pump that is why they are confident at buying at these levels? Or are they buying all of these in a participation of a short so they can profit more all the way down? Either way these news about them buying more than the currently new mined BTC doesn't give us a straight answer on what the future price will be for Bitcoin since we don't even know how Grayscale will play out their current Bitcoin holdings.
There is no guarantee that the price of bitcoin would rally because some financial institute is investing in bitcoin thinking that the price would rally. I bet there are other financial investors investing in bitcoin whenever the price goes down thinking that they could make a huge profit when the price rallies.These investments are not meant to hold the coins for a decade and they only want to book the profit when the price rallies.
At what price you buy bitcoin doesn't matter to you when you are doing so well with the bitcoin returns. They do not care about the current price, this is an investment company and all they care about is increasing their revenue by having multiple investments, grayscale is not buying bitcoin alone, they are buying many things, they are trying to profit as much as they can so bitcoin will keep on being on their list and they are going to buy more and more of it to profit more in the future. Look at all the hedge funds, as soon as they find something they like they end up buying a bunch of it.
Long term investment is much much more important for these type of companies, they want to make a profit in 10 years, not tomorrow. So, there is a big difference between them and regular traders/investors like us.
Long term investment is much much more important for these type of companies, they want to make a profit in 10 years, not tomorrow. So, there is a big difference between them and regular traders/investors like us.
Grayscale is buying Bitcoin at the current market value and has no regards with having a margin of safety in their orders? Can this mean something? Like are we headed into a big pump that is why they are confident at buying at these levels? Or are they buying all of these in a participation of a short so they can profit more all the way down? Either way these news about them buying more than the currently new mined BTC doesn't give us a straight answer on what the future price will be for Bitcoin since we don't even know how Grayscale will play out their current Bitcoin holdings.
This may be just speculation, but it makes sense if we think logically, although the idea of reverse transactions is something that most today would not accept when it comes to Bitcoin. Obviously, it will no longer be just a question of investing in BTC, but also of verifying the origin of such coins.
If that takes hold then Bitcoin is dead meat.
I can imagine 100% radioactive coins are nothing but a liability but they already are. I can imagine totally virgin coins will have a placebo premium for some and they already do. Anything beyond those two extremes rapidly becomes totally unworkable.
I'm sure some will attempt this. They ain't getting far and everyone will truck past them.
The halving changes the OTC landscape too. OTC buyers who previously bought from miners will be squeezed and will have to look elsewhere. Miners who previously dumped on exchanges, and there must have been a few, will find OTC buyers seeking them out. I expect far fewer mined coins will reach the open market from now on. There's no need.
Yet perhaps this is about creating a market of different Bitcoins in terms of their values based on their past. Perhaps the Grayscale realized that not all BTCs will be the same value in the future, and that some will not actually be usable anywhere else except on the black market. It is common knowledge that Virgin Bitcoins are sold at premium prices, which definitely suits the miners who have the exclusive right to them. I read an interesting qualification (speculation) about how Bitcoin could be classified into 4 categories by price, but also by how it can actually be used.
Quote from: https://old.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/dt23jq/do_you_know_where_and_how_to_buy_virgin_bitcoin/
In the future, chain analysis companies and automated services would be able to classify coins (UTXOs) in several categories:
2% of all Bitcoins: black - located on, or several hops away from a known darknet/blacklisted address. These could be spent at black markets only. Exchanges and banks would immediately freeze these coins at deposit, and open an investigation with authorities.
40% of all Bitcoins: gray - coins of untraceable origin, assumed to be mixed. Extreme KYC/KCOYC/AML vetting will be required to trade or sell these coins in the "normal" world. Legally operating merchants in some countries would need to ID you before accepting payment.
55% of all Bitcoins: white - coins with a fully traceable origin, right from the moment they were mined or bought from a KYC/AML exchange. In the distant future, owning whitelisted coins would allow nation-states to practice "legal ownership" laws by forcing miners to accept only transactions signed by a trusted (central) bank. You'd be able to reverse an illegal tx, same way you can now reverse a Visa or PayPal transaction.
3% of all Bitcoins: virgin - coins with zero transactions. These would be used as collectibles or as monetary reserves in case Bitcoin replaces physical gold.
2% of all Bitcoins: black - located on, or several hops away from a known darknet/blacklisted address. These could be spent at black markets only. Exchanges and banks would immediately freeze these coins at deposit, and open an investigation with authorities.
40% of all Bitcoins: gray - coins of untraceable origin, assumed to be mixed. Extreme KYC/KCOYC/AML vetting will be required to trade or sell these coins in the "normal" world. Legally operating merchants in some countries would need to ID you before accepting payment.
55% of all Bitcoins: white - coins with a fully traceable origin, right from the moment they were mined or bought from a KYC/AML exchange. In the distant future, owning whitelisted coins would allow nation-states to practice "legal ownership" laws by forcing miners to accept only transactions signed by a trusted (central) bank. You'd be able to reverse an illegal tx, same way you can now reverse a Visa or PayPal transaction.
3% of all Bitcoins: virgin - coins with zero transactions. These would be used as collectibles or as monetary reserves in case Bitcoin replaces physical gold.
This may be just speculation, but it makes sense if we think logically, although the idea of reverse transactions is something that most today would not accept when it comes to Bitcoin. Obviously, it will no longer be just a question of investing in BTC, but also of verifying the origin of such coins.
I totally don't see the connection. This is nothing about Grayscale buying bitcoin to manipulate the markets, this is just to show you how much 1 entity buys bitcoin. Theoretically, if everybody held and nobody sold, even if Grayscale were to mine all the bitcoins on their own it would be enough to meet the demand they have. THIS is what the title's trying to say.
Don't misquote my reply. I was responding to @adaseb who was asking why there has not been any increase in the price if the demand for bitcoins is increasing. I wasn't suggesting that Greyscale we're attempting to manipulate the market, nor did I comment on their intentions. This is a really interesting story, not only that someone buys large quantities of BTC, but that they currently buys more than is actually produced. But the key thing is that they do it of course through OTC, and that it still does not affect the quantities available on the market, so there is no price pumping.
The halving changes the OTC landscape too. OTC buyers who previously bought from miners will be squeezed and will have to look elsewhere. Miners who previously dumped on exchanges, and there must have been a few, will find OTC buyers seeking them out. I expect far fewer mined coins will reach the open market from now on. There's no need.
It's going to add up eventually and in a significant way. A bitcoin with a giant and urgent electricity bill attached to it is a lot easier to prise out of an owner's hands than one they bought some time ago.
Well bitcoin was lower and in q1 of 2019 it wasn't doing all that well, we didn't know what is going to happen and price was around 3-4 thousand dollars, nowadays the price was high but went down because of the pandemic and became very cheap, they probably saw what everyone else saw and bought when it was cheeping hoping it would go up, they were right in the end because it did went up.
The point is not to buy that much during the q1, it is to do the same at q2 and q3 and q4 as well, will they continue to buy forever and have more bitcoins, or will they simply be doing this for more short term profits. If I see them selling bitcoin just because it went up and just taking profit and going away, that wouldn't really make the increase in buying valuable to us, but if they do end up buying more on other quarters as well that would be lovely.
The point is not to buy that much during the q1, it is to do the same at q2 and q3 and q4 as well, will they continue to buy forever and have more bitcoins, or will they simply be doing this for more short term profits. If I see them selling bitcoin just because it went up and just taking profit and going away, that wouldn't really make the increase in buying valuable to us, but if they do end up buying more on other quarters as well that would be lovely.
This is a really interesting story, not only that someone buys large quantities of BTC, but that they currently buys more than is actually produced. But the key thing is that they do it of course through OTC, and that it still does not affect the quantities available on the market, so there is no price pumping. This is logically a good thing for the buyer, and I believe that they try in every possible way to keep the price below $10k until they reach the desired quantities.
If you remember last year's pump from $4000 to almost $14k, then there was speculation that Bakkt was to blame for everything, because they were allegedly buy something around 100 000 BTC. If we were to compare these situations, then we could conclude that Grayscale should buy a lot more Bitcoin to significantly affect the price.
If you remember last year's pump from $4000 to almost $14k, then there was speculation that Bakkt was to blame for everything, because they were allegedly buy something around 100 000 BTC. If we were to compare these situations, then we could conclude that Grayscale should buy a lot more Bitcoin to significantly affect the price.
Wouldn't this have something to do with the high trading volume, according to CMC, Bitcoin has a 24 hour volume of $31.5billion, this equals over 3 million BTC being traded. So it would take a much higher purchase than this (about 19k) to have an immediate impact on the price. The current economic crisis in many countries could also be a limiting factor.
However with the increase in demand and the sentiment of traders going to neutral, we would likely be entering a bullish range soon, and an upward in the next few weeks.
However with the increase in demand and the sentiment of traders going to neutral, we would likely be entering a bullish range soon, and an upward in the next few weeks.
I totally don't see the connection. This is nothing about Grayscale buying bitcoin to manipulate the markets, this is just to show you how much 1 entity buys bitcoin. Theoretically, if everybody held and nobody sold, even if Grayscale were to mine all the bitcoins on their own it would be enough to meet the demand they have. THIS is what the title's trying to say.
Basically its bullish that they bought so much, just like all the billions of dollars that entered the Tether USDT market. However price needs to quickly advance or all this buying is eventually going to stop and price might crash.
It looks like billions have been invested in bitcoin so why aren't we at ATH yet? Obviously there is massive selling going on somewhere, not looking good. So I think shortly we should break $10.5K and break the top of the Xi pimp and then retest the June 2019 highs and quite possibly break those too. If we fail and start heading downwards then its not look good.
Great demand needs to be matched with higher prices... if we don't get this then obviously something isn't right.
It looks like billions have been invested in bitcoin so why aren't we at ATH yet? Obviously there is massive selling going on somewhere, not looking good. So I think shortly we should break $10.5K and break the top of the Xi pimp and then retest the June 2019 highs and quite possibly break those too. If we fail and start heading downwards then its not look good.
Great demand needs to be matched with higher prices... if we don't get this then obviously something isn't right.
I don't see it that way. We see multi-year accumulation bottoms in stock markets all the time. That's probably what is happening with BTC as well. Big accumulators like Grayscale are carving out a sideways market. Eventually once they absorb all the supply in this 2018-2020 range, price will get marked up and retail will start buying it up to and above the ATH.
No big hurry in my eyes. We could stay in this sideways range (maybe back down to $6K) until next year and still go on a bull run afterwards.
Great demand needs to be matched with higher prices... if we don't get this then obviously something isn't right.
Wouldn't this have something to do with the high trading volume, according to CMC, Bitcoin has a 24 hour volume of $31.5billion, this equals over 3 million BTC being traded. So it would take a much higher purchase than this (about 19k) to have an immediate impact on the price. The current economic crisis in many countries could also be a limiting factor.
However with the increase in demand and the sentiment of traders going to neutral, we would likely be entering a bullish range soon, and an upward in the next few weeks.
Basically its bullish that they bought so much, just like all the billions of dollars that entered the Tether USDT market. However price needs to quickly advance or all this buying is eventually going to stop and price might crash.
It looks like billions have been invested in bitcoin so why aren't we at ATH yet? Obviously there is massive selling going on somewhere, not looking good. So I think shortly we should break $10.5K and break the top of the Xi pimp and then retest the June 2019 highs and quite possibly break those too. If we fail and start heading downwards then its not look good.
Great demand needs to be matched with higher prices... if we don't get this then obviously something isn't right.
It looks like billions have been invested in bitcoin so why aren't we at ATH yet? Obviously there is massive selling going on somewhere, not looking good. So I think shortly we should break $10.5K and break the top of the Xi pimp and then retest the June 2019 highs and quite possibly break those too. If we fail and start heading downwards then its not look good.
Great demand needs to be matched with higher prices... if we don't get this then obviously something isn't right.
Does anyone know what their position is on newly minted coins? Is that the only type they'll buy?
Why would that be? At the rate they've accumulated BTC I don't think that's possible. I'm sure they just take the best deal they can get on the OTC market.
@gentlemand. No. Reports about Gray Scale claim that the company purchased more bitcoins than the total mined since the halving. It is assumed that some coins were purchased from other sources that are not exchanges.
Does anyone know what their position is on newly minted coins? Is that the only type they'll buy?
I would guess yes just for the sake of a quiet life which means everyone else in future who wants to get in on the same game will be rather less adventurous and will decree that they too only want to go after virgin coins. I hope for their sake they were buying up when production was more plentiful than it is now.
I would guess yes just for the sake of a quiet life which means everyone else in future who wants to get in on the same game will be rather less adventurous and will decree that they too only want to go after virgin coins. I hope for their sake they were buying up when production was more plentiful than it is now.
These stats are slowly starting to be talked about more. I'm surprised it's taken this long to sink in.
I've often maintained this halving will be the one we remember above all because of figures like this. One company, with one product has demand enough to eat more than the production rate. And there aren't really any other comparable players at the moment.
Imagine if there had been multiple ETF approvals by now. I don't believe there will be an ETF for many years to come but I expect there'll be bypasses, kludges and direct ownership from other players.
Grayscale could be geniuses, they could be goats, but it's a glimpse of a future that not enough people have bothered to think through properly.
I've often maintained this halving will be the one we remember above all because of figures like this. One company, with one product has demand enough to eat more than the production rate. And there aren't really any other comparable players at the moment.
Imagine if there had been multiple ETF approvals by now. I don't believe there will be an ETF for many years to come but I expect there'll be bypasses, kludges and direct ownership from other players.
Grayscale could be geniuses, they could be goats, but it's a glimpse of a future that not enough people have bothered to think through properly.
When an ETF does finally get approved, GBTC will get dropped like yesterday's news. The carry cost will be a small fraction of Grayscale's 2% fees. When that happens, this big GBTC premium over spot will probably become a discount.
At the rate volume is increasing on regulated derivatives and exchanges, I don't know if an ETF will take many years anymore.
Limit the supply & Increase Demand = Much Higher Price
These are probably your last months to buy bitcoin relatively cheaply, I urge everybody to buy what you can afford to right now. Fiat is useless, a great depression is coming, put your money somewhere that can increase in value, not decrease/stagnate.
These are probably your last months to buy bitcoin relatively cheaply, I urge everybody to buy what you can afford to right now. Fiat is useless, a great depression is coming, put your money somewhere that can increase in value, not decrease/stagnate.
These stats are slowly starting to be talked about more. I'm surprised it's taken this long to sink in.
I've often maintained this halving will be the one we remember above all because of figures like this. One company, with one product has demand enough to eat more than the production rate. And there aren't really any other comparable players at the moment.
Imagine if there had been multiple ETF approvals by now. I don't believe there will be an ETF for many years to come but I expect there'll be bypasses, kludges and direct ownership from other players.
Grayscale could be geniuses, they could be goats, but it's a glimpse of a future that not enough people have bothered to think through properly.
I've often maintained this halving will be the one we remember above all because of figures like this. One company, with one product has demand enough to eat more than the production rate. And there aren't really any other comparable players at the moment.
Imagine if there had been multiple ETF approvals by now. I don't believe there will be an ETF for many years to come but I expect there'll be bypasses, kludges and direct ownership from other players.
Grayscale could be geniuses, they could be goats, but it's a glimpse of a future that not enough people have bothered to think through properly.
According to the insight link, over the past 12 months "Total Investment into Grayscale Products: $503.7 million" and their investment was around 171,000,000 so I'm not entirely sure... A lot of the investments do come from hedge funds and I don't know if I'd expect them. To spike up this quarter or last, I know a lot have been seeing problems though with the current economic state....
It might be in one of these reports. I might read them later or tomorrow and post what I find hehe.
https://grayscale.co/insights/
https://grayscale.co/bitcoin-trust/
Are you speculating that it might be only fake news?
https://grayscale.co/insights/
https://grayscale.co/bitcoin-trust/
Are you speculating that it might be only fake news?
They seem to be covered a lot by the press and not much more by anyone else? Is there a quarterly breakdown as all I can find is articles like "grayscale buying more bitcoin than has been mined" which is an obvious clickbaity headline (I'll keep looking and update if I find one)...
This news article is more positive hehehe.
In any case, would it be good to follow Gray Scale's list of altcoins that they are holding? I reckon that they might be indexing and Barry Silbert's ego might cause him to keep supporting the price of those coins hehehe.
According to Kevin Rooke, Grayscale has been buying up a lot of BTC in recent weeks.
So much even that more Bitcoin has been purchased compared to the amount of BTC generated by miners since the block reward halving.
With nearly 19,000 BTC bought by Grayscale, and under 13,000 BTC minted on the network, there is a very intriguing discrepancy.
Read in full https://nulltx.com/grayscale-buys-800-more-bitcoin-compared-to-q1-2019/
In any case, would it be good to follow Gray Scale's list of altcoins that they are holding? I reckon that they might be indexing and Barry Silbert's ego might cause him to keep supporting the price of those coins hehehe.
According to Kevin Rooke, Grayscale has been buying up a lot of BTC in recent weeks.
So much even that more Bitcoin has been purchased compared to the amount of BTC generated by miners since the block reward halving.
With nearly 19,000 BTC bought by Grayscale, and under 13,000 BTC minted on the network, there is a very intriguing discrepancy.
Read in full https://nulltx.com/grayscale-buys-800-more-bitcoin-compared-to-q1-2019/
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