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LOL and touche' countryfree! I think you have that about right.
But, I think that Greece adopting Bitcoin is just an academic-only topic: ain't gonna happen.
If anything, it would not surprise me if the neo-Marxists there to eventually crack down on Bitcoin, no revenue for the state, etc... Bolivia, Ecuador and Venezuela seem to show the future of a "free currency" in distressed (Marxist) countries.
Topic: Greece could become crypto-land with a crowdsourced bailout. (Read 3025 times)
Did anyone post this yet?
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/22/can-a-parallel-digital-currency-solve-the-greek-financial-crisis
I havent seen in posted around here.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/22/can-a-parallel-digital-currency-solve-the-greek-financial-crisis
I havent seen in posted around here.
That's plan B. if the Greeks fail to get new financing from the European Central Bank, they will come to this forum, asking everyone to lend them a few BTC. They'll pay back after they will have paid back both the ECB and the IMF, in about 350 years.
Did anyone post this yet?
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/22/can-a-parallel-digital-currency-solve-the-greek-financial-crisis
I havent seen in posted around here.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/22/can-a-parallel-digital-currency-solve-the-greek-financial-crisis
I havent seen in posted around here.
They could also issue their own national e-currency while keeping the euro. Something similar to Ecuador maybe.
let's hope they don't issue greece-coin, one of the big scam along with many other country coin
It is too dangerous for a state to adopt crypto at the moment. When Bitstamp goes down, it is annoying for a few days, but life goes on. If Greece got hacked, then the entire country would grind to a stop! Some serious firewalls would be needed in advance, as well as simplifying the process for less high tech people.
I have a little doubt at the success of such crowdsourced bailout. The Greece is facing difficulies for many years, whose problem is in the internal and complex economic infrastructure. It is always needing bailout since then, but it will never resolve its problems. Most of us know that it has no potential at all.
PArt of the problem with dead global economy is that it was a designed and ultimately a farce, creating things people don't need. The global economy needs to really fuck over a lot of people until real things are produced by a people with pure unfettered freedom… Don't think everything is great in USA either, it starts in Greece works its way through europe eventually arriving on our shores within 2 years… Central banks are going to lose the faith of people of the first worlds.
Just imagine if they would adopt bitcoin as their national currency this moment; there would be so many theft and scams its beyond scale.
Bitcoin is not ready yet, or to put it more correctly; the laws and regulations surrounding bitcoin are not established.
Dont dream thet anyone is going to adopt bitcoin as a solo alternative, some of them may invest, but thats that.
cheers
I have a little doubt at the success of such crowdsourced bailout. The Greece is facing difficulies for many years, whose problem is in the internal and complex economic infrastructure. It is always needing bailout since then, but it will never resolve its problems. Most of us know that it has no potential at all.
PArt of the problem with dead global economy is that it was a designed and ultimately a farce, creating things people don't need. The global economy needs to really fuck over a lot of people until real things are produced by a people with pure unfettered freedom… Don't think everything is great in USA either, it starts in Greece works its way through europe eventually arriving on our shores within 2 years… Central banks are going to lose the faith of people of the first worlds.
I have a little doubt at the success of such crowdsourced bailout. The Greece is facing difficulies for many years, whose problem is in the internal and complex economic infrastructure. It is always needing bailout since then, but it will never resolve its problems. Most of us know that it has no potential at all.
PArt of the problem with dead global economy is that it was a designed and ultimately a farce, creating things people don't need. The global economy needs to really fuck over a lot of people until real things are produced by a people with pure unfettered freedom… Don't think everything is great in USA either, it starts in Greece works its way through europe eventually arriving on our shores within 2 years… Central banks are going to lose the faith of people of the first worlds.
People is clueless about cryptocurrencies, so how's that gonna happen?
And there is this that could help Greece for crowdsourced bitcoins: http://bravenewcoin.com/news/lighthouse-tackles-decentralized-crowdfunding/
I'm really excited for lighthouse and what they may accomplish for bitcoin and for those in need.
I'm really excited for lighthouse and what they may accomplish for bitcoin and for those in need.
I have a little doubt at the success of such crowdsourced bailout. The Greece is facing difficulies for many years, whose problem is in the internal and complex economic infrastructure. It is always needing bailout since then, but it will never resolve its problems. Most of us know that it has no potential at all.
We need a small country, with a stable monetary/fiscal policy, where Bitcoin can gradually replace the fiat currency.
Greece is the last country where something like this should be tried.
Greece is the last country where something like this should be tried.
If Greek leaders would point out the nature of fiat money scam, that will trigger a world wide level of events, however I don't think they have enough knowledge about money creation (judging from their speak, they still think fiat money is something hard earned and valuable)
Great thread, great idea! Keep them flowin'!
Grece has huge crypto potential now that you make me think about it!
Grece has huge crypto potential now that you make me think about it!
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bigkahuna
Yes, of course, nothing is impossible. But, I like to think in a probabilities, to me seems improbable that Greece would become a money or data haven.
If Russia wanted to become any kind of haven, NO ONE could stop them!
But, many big-money Russians have been taking THEIR money out for many years. Beyond this, I am not really competent to comment, other than Russian culture (love of big .gov among their people) seems to be hostile to personal liberty and people hiding their money.
I saw at reddit that Russia has recently been cracking-down on BTC sites...
I would not trust my money in either Russia or Greece.
But that is based on my beliefs and experience, limited as my experience is.
bigkahuna
Yes, of course, nothing is impossible. But, I like to think in a probabilities, to me seems improbable that Greece would become a money or data haven.
If Russia wanted to become any kind of haven, NO ONE could stop them!
But, many big-money Russians have been taking THEIR money out for many years. Beyond this, I am not really competent to comment, other than Russian culture (love of big .gov among their people) seems to be hostile to personal liberty and people hiding their money. I saw at reddit that Russia has recently been cracking-down on BTC sites...
I would not trust my money in either Russia or Greece.
But that is based on my beliefs and experience, limited as my experience is.
OROBTC
I understand your point, However, it does not make my idea impossible.
Tell me though, who could stop Russia from becoming an off-shore haven?
I have used Russian banks for years and I trust then. So do millions of others with big money.
I understand your point, However, it does not make my idea impossible.
Tell me though, who could stop Russia from becoming an off-shore haven?
I have used Russian banks for years and I trust then. So do millions of others with big money.
goes to show how powerful the bankers are
taxes are insanely high everywhere, and all places you could possibly flee to to void paying ridiculous taxes are pretty much gone.
income taxes up to over 50%, VAT of 21%, not even counting excise and ecology taxes.
not to mention import and export taxes.
taxes are insanely high everywhere, and all places you could possibly flee to to void paying ridiculous taxes are pretty much gone.
income taxes up to over 50%, VAT of 21%, not even counting excise and ecology taxes.
not to mention import and export taxes.
...
@ zezt
Yes, there would be tremendous riches for any small country to become a free-zone for money, cryptocurrency, secret banking, secure & private data storage, etc. A nice read is a novel by Neal Stephenson called Cryptonomicon, about a small island trying to become the world's secure (and offering secrecy) data haven.
But, I can think of at least two problems with such a free-zone being Greece:
1) As pointed out by others above, Greek governments are extremely meddlesome and corrupt. At this point, who would ever trust Greece to competently, honestly and secretly to look after YOUR funds? Ahh, not me!
2) Such a free-zone would encounter MASSIVE resistance from other countries. Most of the EU was mad at Ireland some years ago for having a low corporate income tax rate. RUSSIA would not likely be good partner for Greece in this, the Russians have lately cracked-down on some BTC websites there. Were Greece to try something like this, the EU and the USA would almost surely retaliate, and put the squeeze on them just as both the EU and USA did to the various "tax havens" now almost completely dead.
@ zezt
Yes, there would be tremendous riches for any small country to become a free-zone for money, cryptocurrency, secret banking, secure & private data storage, etc. A nice read is a novel by Neal Stephenson called Cryptonomicon, about a small island trying to become the world's secure (and offering secrecy) data haven.
But, I can think of at least two problems with such a free-zone being Greece:
1) As pointed out by others above, Greek governments are extremely meddlesome and corrupt. At this point, who would ever trust Greece to competently, honestly and secretly to look after YOUR funds? Ahh, not me!
2) Such a free-zone would encounter MASSIVE resistance from other countries. Most of the EU was mad at Ireland some years ago for having a low corporate income tax rate. RUSSIA would not likely be good partner for Greece in this, the Russians have lately cracked-down on some BTC websites there. Were Greece to try something like this, the EU and the USA would almost surely retaliate, and put the squeeze on them just as both the EU and USA did to the various "tax havens" now almost completely dead.
If Greece really wanted to make some money, they could turn their country into an off-shore banking zone.
They would make Billions! If Europe doesn't like, the Russian can tell Europe to go piss up a rope!
They would make Billions! If Europe doesn't like, the Russian can tell Europe to go piss up a rope!
Crowdsourcing for Greece?
I'd rather grab a lighter and burn my cash than give it to that corrupt, dirty and inefficient country. The Greeks fully deserve the mess they're in. Lending them money is like throwing it through the window.
I'd rather grab a lighter and burn my cash than give it to that corrupt, dirty and inefficient country. The Greeks fully deserve the mess they're in. Lending them money is like throwing it through the window.
Good luck finding someone trustworthy to 'hold' all that money for you while they get things sorted politically, you'd have better luck funding the Kurdistan government..... Hmmm...
I think you guys are delusional if you think a country will ever adopt an e-currency as the official one. I think bitcoin will always be the alternative to fiat currencies.
fiat currency should have never happened in the first place.
All currency since the nixon scandal are a scam and a disaster for humanity.
I think you guys are delusional if you think a country will ever adopt an e-currency as the official one. I think bitcoin will always be the alternative to fiat currencies.
I'd like to see this. I'd pitch in a few satoshi for sure. C'mon, let's do this people!
Crowdsource steps up and offers to create a fund to stabilize their banks. Make Greece a hot bed for tech-start ups. It could happen.
Except Greek government is corrupt as hell and they'll jyst run with the money like they always do.
You'd need to overthrow their government and install one you could trust not to run with the money. Good luck with that.
You'd be better of crowd funding to buy a large piece of land or an island, declare it a sovereign state, and make it Bitcoin country.
They could also issue their own national e-currency while keeping the euro. Something similar to Ecuador maybe.
Wasnt ecuador thing proven to be a fail?e-currencies are a dumb thing, might as well use Bitcoin.
Ecuador isn't creating its own crypto-currency:
https://bitcointalk.org/?topic=933987
They could also issue their own national e-currency while keeping the euro. Something similar to Ecuador maybe.
Wasnt ecuador thing proven to be a fail?e-currencies are a dumb thing, might as well use Bitcoin.
This is not surprising, considering Syriza is a socialist/communist party, i.e. collectivist. The printing press of a central bank is their best friend. He has a point about Bitcoin's whales, but that is a problem specific to Bitcoin, not a problem with crypto-currencies in general. As for the dreaded deflationary spiral, that is a Keynesian view, not a fact, and there are already topics on this forum that make strong cases against it's validity.* In addition, it's possible to make an inflationary crypto-currency, even a democratic one where people vote on inflation rates. So again, a problem specific to Bitcoin.
I was excited to see Syriza win, but mostly because Greece stirring the status quo has the most chance of initiating the end of the Euro, whether it is because of a Grexit or the EU caving in to the demands of Greece, which would be followed by similar demands from countries like Spain, Italy and Portugal. Even if the Northern EU countries would accept those demands, which would essentially amount to a transfer-Union, a lot more QE would be needed. The EMU would become a free-money zone. Since the Euro is not the world's reserve currency, it'll suffer more devaluation than the USD did so far with it's major QE programs.
Crypto-currencies won't see sudden mass adoption until the hyperinflation of the major fiat currencies starts. It won't be long now until the central bank's lose all their credibility, and the deflation will switch to (hyper)inflation.
* This is probably one of the best scientific papers debunking the myths of deflation: http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/serials/files/cato-journal/2008/11/cj28n3-1.pdf
Greece = Cyprus 2.0
And because BTC does not make bank holidays or fund freezing possible, they don't like it
Wait until capital controls/Grexit/bank account controls are being put in place, then the bulls will have their run.
And because BTC does not make bank holidays or fund freezing possible, they don't like it
Wait until capital controls/Grexit/bank account controls are being put in place, then the bulls will have their run.
It would be very nice greece cryptocurrency adoptation on the other hand everybody trying to get advantage of the situation here.
p.s https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=516955.1780 greececoin
p.s https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=516955.1780 greececoin
I heard the new finance minister used to work for valve, steam don't accept btc yet but they do run other digi 'currencies' of sorts so would not be an enormous leap for them to consider something unconventional!
These are the types of ideas that scare the crap out of financial elites. Because it might simply work and by-pass them taking all there BS making it irrelevant over the course of just a few years.
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Crowdsourced funding would have to be in very large amounts to do anything to help the macro-situation there in Greece, if by "crowdsourcing" one means "donations". Even though Greece's economy is small by European standards, it will take billions of euros/US$ to stabilize the country. Generous donations on that scale are not going to happen.
Smaller-scale crowdsourcing could aid families, "sister cities" and the like I suppose. And that would be doing good for some small number of people with financial problems there.
* * *
I do not know Greece well enough to assess the probabilities that they might seriously use crypto-currency. My GUESS would be no, their .gov has traditionally been very interventionist and corrupt, that is a major reason why Syriza just won. Same guess re Greece changing its economy over to some high-tech friendly environment. WHO would believe the promises of a Greek government not to interfere nor heavily tax any such business?
Even were they to take up their own crypto (or even Bitcoin itself), for Greece to receive such funds from outside, they would have to, in essence, export something of value (or sell Aegean islands to Germans and/or Russians)... One of Greece's big problems now is that they do not produce much that the rest of the world would want to pay for.
Russia or China might pay for military basing rights...
Crowdsourced funding would have to be in very large amounts to do anything to help the macro-situation there in Greece, if by "crowdsourcing" one means "donations". Even though Greece's economy is small by European standards, it will take billions of euros/US$ to stabilize the country. Generous donations on that scale are not going to happen.
Smaller-scale crowdsourcing could aid families, "sister cities" and the like I suppose. And that would be doing good for some small number of people with financial problems there.
* * *
I do not know Greece well enough to assess the probabilities that they might seriously use crypto-currency. My GUESS would be no, their .gov has traditionally been very interventionist and corrupt, that is a major reason why Syriza just won. Same guess re Greece changing its economy over to some high-tech friendly environment. WHO would believe the promises of a Greek government not to interfere nor heavily tax any such business?
Even were they to take up their own crypto (or even Bitcoin itself), for Greece to receive such funds from outside, they would have to, in essence, export something of value (or sell Aegean islands to Germans and/or Russians)... One of Greece's big problems now is that they do not produce much that the rest of the world would want to pay for.
Russia or China might pay for military basing rights...
The only reason I think something of that scale could work is because should the euro bail on them, they don't have ANYTHING for decades basically.. Natural market forces will fix greece and bitcoin is the single free market left, one of they keys to greece is to default on 50-80% of their debt and cut the EU as a source of financing. and with a slight chance we live in new and strange times if the people came to help the people there is glimmer of hope for greece, but it is going to come from the people helping the people, not the banking system.
This who greece insolvency has the real ability to destroy the banking system at most, and at the least turn the entire banking system into a giant Citibank(basically a zombie bank rendering its powers basically useless in the monstrosities that the markets are.
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Crowdsourced funding would have to be in very large amounts to do anything to help the macro-situation there in Greece, if by "crowdsourcing" one means "donations". Even though Greece's economy is small by European standards, it will take billions of euros/US$ to stabilize the country. Generous donations on that scale are not going to happen.
Smaller-scale crowdsourcing could aid families, "sister cities" and the like I suppose. And that would be doing good for some small number of people with financial problems there.
* * *
I do not know Greece well enough to assess the probabilities that they might seriously use crypto-currency. My GUESS would be no, their .gov has traditionally been very interventionist and corrupt, that is a major reason why Syriza just won. Same guess re Greece changing its economy over to some high-tech friendly environment. WHO would believe the promises of a Greek government not to interfere nor heavily tax any such business?
Even were they to take up their own crypto (or even Bitcoin itself), for Greece to receive such funds from outside, they would have to, in essence, export something of value (or sell Aegean islands to Germans and/or Russians)... One of Greece's big problems now is that they do not produce much that the rest of the world would want to pay for.
Russia or China might pay for military basing rights...
Crowdsourced funding would have to be in very large amounts to do anything to help the macro-situation there in Greece, if by "crowdsourcing" one means "donations". Even though Greece's economy is small by European standards, it will take billions of euros/US$ to stabilize the country. Generous donations on that scale are not going to happen.
Smaller-scale crowdsourcing could aid families, "sister cities" and the like I suppose. And that would be doing good for some small number of people with financial problems there.
* * *
I do not know Greece well enough to assess the probabilities that they might seriously use crypto-currency. My GUESS would be no, their .gov has traditionally been very interventionist and corrupt, that is a major reason why Syriza just won. Same guess re Greece changing its economy over to some high-tech friendly environment. WHO would believe the promises of a Greek government not to interfere nor heavily tax any such business?
Even were they to take up their own crypto (or even Bitcoin itself), for Greece to receive such funds from outside, they would have to, in essence, export something of value (or sell Aegean islands to Germans and/or Russians)... One of Greece's big problems now is that they do not produce much that the rest of the world would want to pay for.
Russia or China might pay for military basing rights...
They could also issue their own national e-currency while keeping the euro. Something similar to Ecuador maybe.
Crowdsource steps up and offers to create a fund to stabilize their banks. Make Greece a hot bed for tech-start ups. It could happen.
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