Greece makes huge claim for Nazi era

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: panju1 on April 08, 2015, 08:17:12 PM

A default would be bad for the Euro economy and might cause shocks in other economies as well, given that bond holders are across Europe.
Greece would definitely be shut out of the bond markets in the future if they default. Not sure if the government wants that.

It is sad. But the Greek government is left with few choices. They are being forced to chose between staying in the Euro Zone, and looking after their citizens, who are being plagued by an unemployment rate of 30%. If I was Tsipiras, then I'd have also chosen the latter option.

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Quote from: Balthazar on April 08, 2015, 06:43:46 AM

Quote from: LOBSTER on April 08, 2015, 06:17:25 AM

just need fast cash to pay their IMF debts.

Current government officials are saying that default is more preferable than paying this debt. It's unlikely that they would pay anything even if they would have some money.

A default would be bad for the Euro economy and might cause shocks in other economies as well, given that bond holders are across Europe.
Greece would definitely be shut out of the bond markets in the future if they default. Not sure if the government wants that.

galdur

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Greek Debt Crisis: How Goldman Sachs Helped Greece to Mask its True Debt

By Beat Balzli

February 08, 2010 – 06:55 PM

Goldman Sachs helped the Greek government to mask the true extent of its deficit with the help of a derivatives deal that legally circumvented the EU Maastricht deficit rules. At some point the so-called cross currency swaps will mature, and swell the country's already bloated deficit. ...

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/greek-debt-crisis-how-goldman-sachs-helped-greece-to-mask-its-true-debt-a-676634.html

galdur

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Quote from: countryfree on April 08, 2015, 05:55:56 PM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on April 08, 2015, 01:26:29 PM

Quote from: countryfree on April 08, 2015, 08:58:04 AM

BS calls for more BS, so I think the Germans should ask for a payment for running the country during WWII. Greece was much better managed in 1944 when the Germans were in charge than anytime since then.
Grin

What exactly do you mean by "better managed"? If that means killing a significant portion of the country's population, and looting the national treasures, then no thanks. Greece is much better badly managed by the Greek politicians, than "better managed" by the Nazis.

I was joking, of course, but considering Greece went through 2 dictatorships and one civil war during the last century, Greek politics and management is hardly a model to anyone.

Yeah, and then they got Goldman Sachs as advisers around the turn of the century to add insult to injury.

Good luck, g

countryfree

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on April 08, 2015, 01:26:29 PM

Quote from: countryfree on April 08, 2015, 08:58:04 AM

BS calls for more BS, so I think the Germans should ask for a payment for running the country during WWII. Greece was much better managed in 1944 when the Germans were in charge than anytime since then.
Grin

What exactly do you mean by "better managed"? If that means killing a significant portion of the country's population, and looting the national treasures, then no thanks. Greece is much better badly managed by the Greek politicians, than "better managed" by the Nazis.

I was joking, of course, but considering Greece went through 2 dictatorships and one civil war during the last century, Greek politics and management is hardly a model to anyone.

Pentax

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Meh. ploy.

Have the Germans re-engineer yogurt and manage the rest of the business for them while they're at it. Maybe then they can generate some Euros.

The last time the Greeks did anything right Zeus was president.....

galdur

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(Reuters) - Russian President Vladimir Putin offered Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras moral support and long-term cooperation but no financial aid on Wednesday, leaving Athens to fend for itself in resolving urgent debt problems with Western creditors.

The leftist-led Greek government, at loggerheads with its euro zone and International Monetary Fund creditors, risks running out of money within weeks unless it can reach a new cash-for-reform deal.

"The Greek side has not addressed us with any requests for aid," Putin told a joint news conference after Kremlin talks. "We discussed cooperation in various sectors of the economy, including the possibility of developing major energy projects."

Tsipras added: "Greece is not a beggar going around to countries asking them to solve its economic problem, an economic crisis that doesn't only concern Greece but is a European crisis."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/08/us-russia-greece-idUSKBN0MZ0KJ20150408

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Wilikon on April 08, 2015, 01:32:36 PM

It should be applied to them too.

List of wars involving Greece...

You can't compare the WW2 with other wars. In WW2, systematic genocide was used by the Nazis, with the aim of replacing the native population of Poland, Russia, Greece.etc with "Aryans".

Wilikon

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on April 07, 2015, 10:02:32 AM

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32202768

Greece Nazi occupation: Athens asks Germany for 279bn euros

Quote

The Greek government says Germany owes Greece nearly €279bn (£204bn; $303bn) in war reparations for the Nazi occupation during World War Two. It is the first time Greece has officially calculated what Germany allegedly owes it for Nazi atrocities and looting during the 1940s. However, the German government says the issue was resolved legally years ago.

It should be applied to them too.

List of wars involving Greece...

Cool

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: countryfree on April 08, 2015, 08:58:04 AM

BS calls for more BS, so I think the Germans should ask for a payment for running the country during WWII. Greece was much better managed in 1944 when the Germans were in charge than anytime since then.
Grin

What exactly do you mean by "better managed"? If that means killing a significant portion of the country's population, and looting the national treasures, then no thanks. Greece is much better badly managed by the Greek politicians, than "better managed" by the Nazis.

CoinTop

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Quote from: countryfree on April 08, 2015, 08:58:04 AM

BS calls for more BS, so I think the Germans should ask for a payment for running the country during WWII. Greece was much better managed in 1944 when the Germans were in charge than anytime since then.
Grin

So you take something that is not yours, manage it better and that means everything is ok?

Tusk

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Thanks Nemo, just reading your link

Quote

You’ll recall that the original South Stream from Russia to the EU was supposed to go through Bulgaria. However, after pressure from Brussels and a visit from McCain, Bulgaria suddenly disallowed South Stream through its territory, in direct opposition to the country’s interests. Who needs $750 mln a year in transit fees, new jobs, heavy gas discounts, business tourism and other perks. But Uncle McCain said no, and Bulgaria replied, ‘how high do you want me to jump?’ As a result, Russia cancelled South Stream.

Hasn't Tony Blair just been appointed a consultant to Yugoslavia, after being instrumental in destroying the place one wonders how the people there would allow this Huh

He will surely try block the South Stream passing through there now that Bulgaria is not an option. Taking into account his ME backers it all seems too cosy, rather that what is in the interests of consumers or development and jobs for the building of this pipeline through these areas you see the usual culprits at play Wink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk4SV08cA64

Nemo1024

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Looks like Tsipras' visit to Moscow is a success for Greece, at least judging by all the shit-throwing coming from the EU.
No bail-out was asked for, but a common plan of action was agreed upon.

http://rt.com/business/247921-russia-greece-putin-tsipras/

A nice analysis of the situation by Lada Ray:
https://futuristrendcast.wordpress.com/2015/04/07/between-moscow-and-eu-greek-pm-to-visit-putin-greece-demands-e279-bln-in-wwii-reparations-from-germany/

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

BS calls for more BS, so I think the Germans should ask for a payment for running the country during WWII. Greece was much better managed in 1944 when the Germans were in charge than anytime since then.
Grin

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Balthazar on April 08, 2015, 06:43:46 AM

Quote from: LOBSTER on April 08, 2015, 06:17:25 AM

just need fast cash to pay their IMF debts.

Current government officials are saying that default is more preferable than paying this debt. It's unlikely that they would pay anything even if they would have some money.

It is impossible to avoid the default. Greece is left with no other option. Hundreds of billions of Euros can't be suddenly created out of thin air (that is, if you are not Ben Bernanke). Grin

Balthazar

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Quote from: LOBSTER on April 08, 2015, 06:17:25 AM

just need fast cash to pay their IMF debts.

Current government officials are saying that default is more preferable than paying this debt. It's unlikely that they would pay anything even if they would have some money.

Grand_Voyageur

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Quote from: LOBSTER on April 08, 2015, 06:17:25 AM

It's just ridiculous. I understand the Greeks on the one hand but on the other hand they just need fast cash to pay their IMF debts.

I don't think this could be really called fast cash since Germans fought this bitterly since the start, years ago. Wink

LOBSTER

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It's just ridiculous. I understand the Greeks on the one hand but on the other hand they just need fast cash to pay their IMF debts.

galdur

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Germany Slams "Stupid" Greek Demands For "Incomprehensible" €278 Billion In Reparations

Sigmar Gabriel, who is economy minister and German vice chancellor, called the demand "stupid", saying Greece ultimately had an interest in squeezing a bit of leeway out of its euro zone partners to help Athens overcome its debt crisis.

"And this leeway has absolutely nothing to do with World War Two or reparation payments," said Gabriel, who leads the Social Democrats (SPD), junior partner in the ruling coalition with Chancellor Angela Merkel's conservatives.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-07/germany-slams-stupid-greek-demands-incomprehensible-%E2%82%AC278-billion-reparations

Grand_Voyageur

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Quote from: NUFCrichard on April 08, 2015, 05:09:35 AM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on April 07, 2015, 10:02:32 AM

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32202768

Greece Nazi occupation: Athens asks Germany for 279bn euros

Quote

The Greek government says Germany owes Greece nearly €279bn (£204bn; $303bn) in war reparations for the Nazi occupation during World War Two. It is the first time Greece has officially calculated what Germany allegedly owes it for Nazi atrocities and looting during the 1940s. However, the German government says the issue was resolved legally years ago.

Has anyone actually seen a breakdown of where these figures come from?
Greece doesn't have a very big or strong economy, I think it is around 100€billion GDP. So they would be claiming that the entire country was stopped for nearly 3 years to get to the 279€billion figure quoted.

Maybe that is actually how they have worked it out, but it wouldn't be a very fair way to do it.

I think total also includes blood money as well as property damages related to war crimes like the one of the Distomo case. Bythewhile...they have to negotiate with German government any amount may end a lot less than the starting one.

NUFCrichard

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on April 07, 2015, 10:02:32 AM

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32202768

Greece Nazi occupation: Athens asks Germany for 279bn euros

Quote

The Greek government says Germany owes Greece nearly €279bn (£204bn; $303bn) in war reparations for the Nazi occupation during World War Two. It is the first time Greece has officially calculated what Germany allegedly owes it for Nazi atrocities and looting during the 1940s. However, the German government says the issue was resolved legally years ago.

Has anyone actually seen a breakdown of where these figures come from?
Greece doesn't have a very big or strong economy, I think it is around 100€billion GDP. So they would be claiming that the entire country was stopped for nearly 3 years to get to the 279€billion figure quoted.

Maybe that is actually how they have worked it out, but it wouldn't be a very fair way to do it.

Miracal

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on April 07, 2015, 10:02:32 AM

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32202768

Greece Nazi occupation: Athens asks Germany for 279bn euros

Quote

The Greek government says Germany owes Greece nearly €279bn (£204bn; $303bn) in war reparations for the Nazi occupation during World War Two. It is the first time Greece has officially calculated what Germany allegedly owes it for Nazi atrocities and looting during the 1940s. However, the German government says the issue was resolved legally years ago.

I makes me laughing.

Quote

Germany insists the reparations issue was settled in 1990, before Germany reunified.
The budget spokesman for Chancellor Merkel's Christian Democrats, Eckhardt Rehberg, reiterated on Tuesday that "the reparations issue is for us closed, politically and legally - the same applies to the so-called forced loan".

Greece is falling in the debt hole and I think they are impossible to repay them. They are desperately needing cash.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on April 07, 2015, 11:51:45 AM

It's actually a pretty sad game between the Greek and EU politicians, where the Greeks borrow time and money, Germany loses very little and all EU citizens will pay for this from their own pockets.

Out of the $ 240 billion aid given to Greece as loans, less than 10% actually reached the Greek public. The rest was given to the bankers, who immediately stole it. The bankers are mostly controlled by Germany, and there fore Tsiparas and other members of his administration think that they should not repay the debt.

Here the real losers will be the EU tax payers, as you said. And bankers are the only ones who have gained from all this.

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on April 07, 2015, 10:02:32 AM

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32202768

Greece Nazi occupation: Athens asks Germany for 279bn euros

Quote

The Greek government says Germany owes Greece nearly €279bn (£204bn; $303bn) in war reparations for the Nazi occupation during World War Two. It is the first time Greece has officially calculated what Germany allegedly owes it for Nazi atrocities and looting during the 1940s. However, the German government says the issue was resolved legally years ago.

Greek government is doing just what the ICJ in the Jurisdictional Immunities of the State (Germany v. Italy: Greece intervening) case told: war crimes reparations have to be dealt with bilateral agreements between states.
Italian government should do the same but they have a lot more to lose by punching Germany with this issue...Greek by contrast has nothing to loose but a lot to gain from it.

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Yeah, I've read the news. Had a smile and moved on.
That's not a real claim. Not something achievable. It's just empty words. Politics. Something the not-so-bright ones with tell "now the Greek government did it right!"
It's actually a pretty sad game between the Greek and EU politicians, where the Greeks borrow time and money, Germany loses very little and all EU citizens will pay for this from their own pockets.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Snail2 on April 07, 2015, 11:12:02 AM

I'm afraid they never going to see that money. Paying 276bn euros would kill the German economy.

You are not getting it. This is just a clever tactic to delay the debt repayments which are due shortly. Greece owns some $ 240 billion in payments, mostly to German banks. There is no way that bankrupt and broke Greece could muster this amount in such a short time.

Lethn

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That's fucking desperation that is, it's like if UK needed a bailout and Labour got re-elected, I can see all the radical left parties trying to this kind of shit, next they'll claim the Germans are being racist and persecuting them for being Greek. They know that they don't have the funds to keep their government spending up, they know they can't borrow anymore to prop up their failing government, now they're desperate for any kind of escape route.

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I'm afraid they never going to see that money. Paying 276bn euros would kill the German economy.

bryant.coleman

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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32202768

Greece Nazi occupation: Athens asks Germany for 279bn euros

Quote

The Greek government says Germany owes Greece nearly €279bn (£204bn; $303bn) in war reparations for the Nazi occupation during World War Two. It is the first time Greece has officially calculated what Germany allegedly owes it for Nazi atrocities and looting during the 1940s. However, the German government says the issue was resolved legally years ago.

Topic: Greece makes huge claim for Nazi era (Read 1127 times)