Topic: Greece might be coming close to an agreement really soon (for real this time)! (Read 670 times)
July 13, 2015, 08:10:42 AM
Seems like an agreement was reached.
July 11, 2015, 06:21:47 AM
I wish from my heart that, May Good fortune wave on Greece this time, I would like to see happy smile on the faces of Greek people, man it is very hard to read those news that they do not have money to buy the bread for a whole day 
July 11, 2015, 06:19:40 AM
didnt they just have a referendum saying no to all the measures tsipras is now agreeing to?
the will of the people means nothing. the jews will pay lip service to democracy up to a point but after all's said and done they get their way no matter what.
the will of the people means nothing. the jews will pay lip service to democracy up to a point but after all's said and done they get their way no matter what.
July 11, 2015, 05:04:42 AM
It looks like Tsirpas is a bad poker player after all.
I don't expect an agreement today - I am sure that there are still cards to play, this time from "creditors" side - but I think (and hope!) that there will be one in the next 5-10 days.
I don't expect an agreement today - I am sure that there are still cards to play, this time from "creditors" side - but I think (and hope!) that there will be one in the next 5-10 days.
July 11, 2015, 05:00:40 AM
So to recap, Greece has put forward a plan of reforms, spending cuts and tax rises that is close to what was demanded by its creditors before Alexis Tsipras called last Sunday’s referendum.
What a waste of a referendum... People will ask why. The answer will be brutal, depressing.
Good luck Greece. Next time pay your bill on time. Turn those old creepy olympic stadiums into a resort before they turn into dust. Do not believe someone who tries to sell you the moon again.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/greece-we-vote-no-oxi-1110202
What a waste of a referendum... People will ask why. The answer will be brutal, depressing.
Good luck Greece. Next time pay your bill on time. Turn those old creepy olympic stadiums into a resort before they turn into dust. Do not believe someone who tries to sell you the moon again.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/greece-we-vote-no-oxi-1110202
Exactly. But not surprising. There were plans for a ukrainian-style coup d'etat floating about before that referendum, and for that one needs at least minor social unrest. If Tsipras agrees to that "plan of reforms", it will be a suicide. Just like with Janukovich, who agreed to early elections with EU guarantors standing behind, and then got removed from the office the next day by armed thugs, so will Tsipras face the same scenario. He agrees to reforms, next day there'll be unrest on the streets with optional Nudel-cookies, some unknown and unaccounted snipers will shoot at police and at demonstrators from the rooftops, and then suddenly Greece will be ruled by a new "democratic" US State Dep-approved government...
https://futuristrendcast.wordpress.com/2015/07/10/6814/
Quote
The ‘bad, cookie-wielding people from across the big pond’ simply used the situation skillfully to their advantage. Said another way: there is an old CIA/MI6 playbook: How to create color revolutions. It is the opinion of some very good analysts that this playbook hasn’t changed (it was only perfected) since the beginning of the 20th century. Why change what works wonders?
That’s how all these color revolutions we have observed, were created. Be it France to unseat De Gaulle, or Hungary in 1956, or Georgia, or Egypt, or Serbia, or Ukraine… It’s the same exact playbook. That’s why it was so easy to predict from the start that there would be cookies on Kiev maidan (or lavash, as in Armenia) and mysterious snipers, and innocent victims promoted all over Western MSM.
What this playbook targets is this: it capitalizes on the deep-seated resentments and anger of the volatile and immature part of the population. Extreme nationalism is part of the resentment and dissatisfaction due to the collapsing standard of living. This is why there was no nationalism in the USSR – the majority lived reasonably free (yes, free – in a sense of personal freedom to be yourself and live according to your tradition), was reasonably satisfied and well-occupied.
The movements to change things and the local power grabs began only after Gorbachev destroyed the structure that worked. Gorby’s intention may have been to reform and rebuild on the new level, however, in his naiveté he had no idea who and what he was dealing with internationally. You can’t try to negotiate in good faith, you can’t try to build cooperative relations with those countries that have one exclusive goal: to destroy your country. This is why most Russians consider Gorbachev a traitor and criminal. However, I think this is too simplified of a view. He genuinely thought he was building a new, cooperative world with the West – the world without confrontation. But along the way, he and his wife fell for the trappings of Western materialism, aka, very subtle bribes.
That’s how all these color revolutions we have observed, were created. Be it France to unseat De Gaulle, or Hungary in 1956, or Georgia, or Egypt, or Serbia, or Ukraine… It’s the same exact playbook. That’s why it was so easy to predict from the start that there would be cookies on Kiev maidan (or lavash, as in Armenia) and mysterious snipers, and innocent victims promoted all over Western MSM.
What this playbook targets is this: it capitalizes on the deep-seated resentments and anger of the volatile and immature part of the population. Extreme nationalism is part of the resentment and dissatisfaction due to the collapsing standard of living. This is why there was no nationalism in the USSR – the majority lived reasonably free (yes, free – in a sense of personal freedom to be yourself and live according to your tradition), was reasonably satisfied and well-occupied.
The movements to change things and the local power grabs began only after Gorbachev destroyed the structure that worked. Gorby’s intention may have been to reform and rebuild on the new level, however, in his naiveté he had no idea who and what he was dealing with internationally. You can’t try to negotiate in good faith, you can’t try to build cooperative relations with those countries that have one exclusive goal: to destroy your country. This is why most Russians consider Gorbachev a traitor and criminal. However, I think this is too simplified of a view. He genuinely thought he was building a new, cooperative world with the West – the world without confrontation. But along the way, he and his wife fell for the trappings of Western materialism, aka, very subtle bribes.
I pray Tsipras does not fall into the same trap that Gorby did.
July 11, 2015, 04:04:41 AM
Here you can see the proposals being compared to previous ones before the referendum. I'd assume that this is the reason that not all of Government MPs supported the new proposals. 145 Government MPs voted for yes out of 162.
Edit: A summarization by the Guardian.
The difference is that this proposals are submitted by Greece itself rather than the enforced conditions provided by the creditors. I have to say there are no much measures to choose to meet the creditors' demand! Edit: A summarization by the Guardian.
July 11, 2015, 03:40:01 AM
Here you can see the proposals being compared to previous ones before the referendum. I'd assume that this is the reason that not all of Government MPs supported the new proposals. 145 Government MPs voted for yes out of 162.
Edit: A summarization by the Guardian.
Edit: A summarization by the Guardian.
July 11, 2015, 03:31:49 AM
The proposals passed from the Greek parliament. 251 out of 300 MPs approved.
July 10, 2015, 01:52:39 AM
They've already erased 100+ billions
What are you referring to?
July 09, 2015, 10:49:07 PM
They say by Sunday the whole world will know how this will turn out.
Get kicked out of the EU or have some another stupid county put up more money to pay off a little to debtors. It is like a wound that is bleeding like a sliv and won't stop.
Get kicked out of the EU or have some another stupid county put up more money to pay off a little to debtors. It is like a wound that is bleeding like a sliv and won't stop.
July 09, 2015, 09:10:06 PM
Those 55 billions he just got will not be enough if nothing changes. They've already erased 100+ billions and the debt went up to 300 last time. Why would Spain or Italy be forced to be good when they see how Greece acts.
Let's see what will happen in 6 months.
July 09, 2015, 08:55:55 PM
So to recap, Greece has put forward a plan of reforms, spending cuts and tax rises that is close to what was demanded by its creditors before Alexis Tsipras called last Sunday’s referendum.
What a waste of a referendum... People will ask why. The answer will be brutal, depressing.
Good luck Greece. Next time pay your bill on time. Turn those old creepy olympic stadiums into a resort before they turn into dust. Do not believe someone who tries to sell you the moon again.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/greece-we-vote-no-oxi-1110202
July 09, 2015, 08:23:24 PM
So to recap, Greece has put forward a plan of reforms, spending cuts and tax rises that is close to what was demanded by its creditors before Alexis Tsipras called last Sunday’s referendum.
What a waste of a referendum... People will ask why. The answer will be brutal, depressing.
Good luck Greece. Next time pay your bill on time. Turn those old creepy olympic stadiums into a resort before they turn into dust. Do not believe someone who tries to sell you the moon again.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/greece-we-vote-no-oxi-1110202
July 09, 2015, 06:47:21 PM
The recent proposals submitted by officials in Athens seems to be close to the demands of the creditors.
Proposals:
http://www.naftemporiki.gr/finance/story/976680/the-greek-reform-proposals
Summary by the Guardian:
Proposals:
http://www.naftemporiki.gr/finance/story/976680/the-greek-reform-proposals
Summary by the Guardian:
Quote
So to recap, Greece has put forward a plan of reforms, spending cuts and tax rises that is close to what was demanded by its creditors before Alexis Tsipras called last Sunday’s referendum.
The plan includes sweeping chnages to VAT to raise a full 1 percent of GDP, moving more items to the 23% top rate of tax, including restaurants - a key battleground before.
Greece has also dropped its opposition to abolishing the lower VAT rate on its islands, starting with the most popular tourist attractions, despite firm opposition from Tsipras’s coalition partner.
Athens also appears to have made significant concessions on pensions, agreeing to phase out solidarity payments for the poorest pensioners by December 2019, a year earlier than planned. It would also raise the retirement age to 67 by 2022.
And it has agreed to only raise corporation tax to 28%, as the IMF wanted, not 29% as previously targeted.
Greece is also proposing to cut military spending by €100m in 2015 and by €200m in 2016, and implement changes to reform and improve tax collection and fight tax evasion. It will also press on with privatisation of state assets including regional airports and ports; some government MPs had vowed to reverse this.
In return, Greece appears to be seeking a three-year loan deal worth €53.5bn.
Two obvious questions -- will this still be enough for creditors, or will they push for even tougher “conditionality” now we’re talking about a new bailout programme. And how will Alexis Tsipras persuade his party, including the hardline Radical Left, to support it?
http://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2015/jul/09/greek-crisis-reform-plan-grexit-tsipras-draghi-live#block-559efe04e4b07fc6a121f5c4The plan includes sweeping chnages to VAT to raise a full 1 percent of GDP, moving more items to the 23% top rate of tax, including restaurants - a key battleground before.
Greece has also dropped its opposition to abolishing the lower VAT rate on its islands, starting with the most popular tourist attractions, despite firm opposition from Tsipras’s coalition partner.
Athens also appears to have made significant concessions on pensions, agreeing to phase out solidarity payments for the poorest pensioners by December 2019, a year earlier than planned. It would also raise the retirement age to 67 by 2022.
And it has agreed to only raise corporation tax to 28%, as the IMF wanted, not 29% as previously targeted.
Greece is also proposing to cut military spending by €100m in 2015 and by €200m in 2016, and implement changes to reform and improve tax collection and fight tax evasion. It will also press on with privatisation of state assets including regional airports and ports; some government MPs had vowed to reverse this.
In return, Greece appears to be seeking a three-year loan deal worth €53.5bn.
Two obvious questions -- will this still be enough for creditors, or will they push for even tougher “conditionality” now we’re talking about a new bailout programme. And how will Alexis Tsipras persuade his party, including the hardline Radical Left, to support it?
Jump to: