Topic: Greece's own bitcoin-like money (Read 2673 times)

Without being racist and with all my respect for Greeks which are one of the most ancient and known people in the world, which has given to the world to many ancient philosophers (and philosophical knowledge) and have an ancient civilization I can assure you that they, in nowadays, are known more for being "residents" of places of pleasure than everything else. 

There is no way out then readjust their expenses and reduce the bills they are paying,printing a new currency will lead into crash would you travel to a country at the current situation of Greece buying their currency ?I dont know why those people that are know as very inteligent people dont act and readjust it at once .

IOU will create further debt and I see it will eventually spiralled out of control. The problem right here is that there seems to be no ending or solution in sight without strong fundamentals to bail it out. Debts are mounting and even if they exit euro and adopting their own version of currency or cryptocurrency for that matter, I'm still baffled on how that is going to help. At this point, increasing taxes will provide a short term solution but definitely not in the longer term.

The world is going towards unification and not towards separation. Euro is the most spectacular example in this point of view. In this perspective a new money for one country is not a step ahead but the contrary. While the case of Greece is different. Exist the possibility that they go out of euro and need their money. I think that IOU is not a bitcoin-like money. Anyhow a bitcoin -like is not the solution. They need a real money. A digital money have no sense in the real world. It act only in the internet. As such it is meaningless in the real world.

Greek second currency should be backed with sheeps and garlics from local farmers otherwise who knows what can happen even with second Greek currency  In any case Germany, France I think will help with some cash to cover Greece debts. 

We need Bitcoins in Venezuela, not "Bolívares".

given the government intentions of attemping to capital control I strongly believe this would be a good idea.

There will be no cryptocurrencies in Greece anytime soon. Greece always lags behind technological advancement, so don't expect tat country to do anything revolutionary. They will just keep shuffling leaders every 6 months making new elections and not getting anything done. Unfortunately it's an already doomed economy.

They won't.
The rest of the world is just hoping that Greece doesn't drag them into the hole as well. 

None of these tricks will dig them out of this hole 

There is no meaning to have their own bitcoin-like money. They already have as their fiat. Only difference not electronically movable. So, electronic money, easy transmittable only would not a solve economic crisis. Same as Gold, why some country not yet declare their own metal like lead or copper for storage of investment or at least silver.

Both the subject of the OP and any allegation that an alt coin could save Greece are far, far away from reality. The subject in the article was relevant for a short period of time, but with the backlash it received I think that it's be easy to say it was denounced pretty quickly. Staying in the euro with a parallel currency could on it's own have Greece kicked out of the euro. And please don't speak of altcoins as they can save a nation. This brings delusion to another level.

LOL what you just posted sounds like Religion to me. Ignorant religion.

Unless you have played poker with Greeks, it seems the Greeks have folded.

This game is just getting started, as you will see next week. First, you need to keep the sucker in the game by making him feel he is winning, then when the pot is full of cash, you grab the money and run/exit.

My wishful thinking also. The time to set the hook may be only 72 hours. When Tsipras goes back with nothing and tells the German bankers, see I told you so, our last offer was the best offer, not this POS you are using for cover.

You use money to measure GDP, when GDP increased, the amount of money supply will also have to be increased. And since money supply can only increase with higher debt level (Today's fiat money is all created by debt), higher GDP must correspond to higher debt. And since each debt has an interest, but GDP does not have an interest, so GDP increase will never catch up with debt increase.  The system is designed in such a way that there is no escape for the whole nation who use the fiat money

From an individual (or even enterprise) point of view, money is almost unlimited, you just need to put some effort to grab them. But from a whole nation's point of view, you can't make more money if there is no corresponding amount of money created at the first place. And since those money can only be created by loan, the growth of the economy is capped by the size of the national debt

Thats the game! companies evade tax because they bully the goverment by threatening job cuts, or closing shop. With a frwd tax reciept at a discount, gov can tell them look if you want tax discount (that they eventually get anyway) you should pay upfront

Man these politicians are out of their minds this time. So they just want themselves another toy that they can print a bunch of it. Big thieves to say the least...

It's been said many times that there are problems with tax collection in Greece, so those IOUs do not look like a good bet to me...

That is true, but I don't think it is a problem. If GDP increases at the same/higher pace than the growth in debt, there is a kind of stability. The problem comes when there is a slowdown in growth and countries are unable to refinance their debt.

Exactly, Greece is only the one to blame, if Greece is not in EMU, then Italian will be the one to blame. It is impossible to repay the loan in today's debt based fiat money system, if some country indeed repaid their loan, then some other country must be heavily indebted. And as a whole, EU must get more and more debt, just like US. Debt and money supply must go up exponentially, otherwise there will be default and much of the wealth will belong to money creator

By quickly increase the productivity, people can make a little bit more to repay the loan, but their increased income just make money more scarce, thus more money will need to be created in the forms of loan, so more work = more debt, the harder people work, the heavier the debt of the whole nation will become. There is no escape

Lol, I remember AUR, I could have made so much money but I was greedy and didn't buy. That pump was epic. As far as I can remember not any other coin reached 0.1 BTC with such supply.

Time to make a new pump and dump greeks aurora (titanic)? 

Kinda relevant, here's a documentary with Varoufakis speaking about Bitcoin (it's a Bitcoin documentary by a student)

http://www.businessinsider.com/greek-finance-minister-yanis-varoufakis-bitcoin-documentary-2015-4

Im sure the april fools joke was not 100% a joke, he's definitely aware on Bitcoin... we'll see what happens in the future, definitely interesting times ahead.

those IOUs would be sold for euros man. The idea is like tax prepayment at a discount. of course that is one time effect

What is really going to happen is that all these Greek IOUs will end up back with the government in the form of taxes.
The Greek government will have to pay bondholders in Euros, but they will have only these IOUs. They will regret the day they introduced them. 

I don't think  Greece would use their own crypto I mean what's the point ? It would be worthless just like printing drachmas. If tey used a crypto currency they should use bitcoin which is used worldwide and has a huge volume.

What they need to do is get out of this political-centric lifestyle (i.e. indebting their children so they can laze around today), and get back to work so they can pay back what they owe to the rest of the world.  Instead, they got all these fancy new ideas purported to help the economy, just like all "well-meaning idealists" love to do, and which will worsen the problem and result in a new idea which will be purported to help the economy...  But all it is, is for the "farmers" to find new ways to prod the "cows" to produce more milk (that is, at this point in Greece, the "cows" just aren't producing much at all), while refusing to give the "cows" enough space to actually produce since, y'know, that'd cut into the "farmer"'s paycheck and fundamental life role, which is to be narcissistic and persuasive enough to convince the "cows" that "farmers" know what's best for them.  To escape the political-centric lifestyle is as simple as rejecting the notion that people are cows in need of farming; there has never, ever, ever been political action to have productive and beneficial results in the long-term, so long as we don't include "inaction" as a form of action.  If you've never read The Road to Serfdom, now's a good time, so you can see what this is leading to (here it is in comic format: https://imgur.com/a/y0d33 )  Greece doesn't need any more ideas or plans, they need to go back to what worked.

Anyway.  I'm interested to see if Greece will pull out of this situation or continue to spiral into a North Korea sort of "democracy", where the political owners have to literally force their citizens to work to continue on as a political unit (it just so happens, North Korea has the worst economy in the world; how they're yet a smoldering hole in the ground eludes me.)  The fools in Greece fell for the thousands-years-old "we can give you everything you'll ever want if you just follow us with complete faith" gag that swallowed up so many nations in the past; they're just calling it socialism nowadays and painting it like it's something grand, when it's just more of the same that's been screwing them over: political spending sends wrong signals to market-participants makes the economy slow down because nobody knows what the market is actually like in reality anymore (plus, handouts disincentivize people from working because shit, they can just "tax the wealthy", e.g. borrow with no intent of paying back, and never work again!), nobody knows how to allocate resources effectively or productively anymore (least of all politicians; you can look at the USSR for how it worked out when market signals were almost completely obscured and their central planners had to look at the American economy to have any sense of how to allocate anything), nobody can generate capital correctly which leads to spending the capital the generations prior built up until no capital exists anymore, all that prosperity people produced via capitalist principles is gone, and all that's left is you, your state, and your compulsory participation in keeping your nation surviving at a baseline level, which they will say is owed of you for your "right to live there."

So you are telling people to ditch their bitcoins, sell everything and buy monero? Just to be sure that your transactions would be untraceable... No. I will tell you this, while monero could be 'safer' and more private than bitcoin in general but it is still altcoin, and as every altcoin it is destined to fall. It would be like investing in sinking ship for all these people.

The People of Greece might want to take it a step further and exchange their bitcoins for XMR. This allows for instant, anonymous transactions.  The tech could be layered right on top of any "e-card" the Greek government issues.  Even without that layer, all they would have to do is get their own wallet and use that with other people who only use their own wallets, such that the .gov has no idea if they are Greek, Americans, or Martians.

It must be a crypto currency with an integrated 10%-20% inflation rate per year. A country like Greece with almost no producing industry and inefficient administrative authorities will not get along with a deflationary currency like bitcoin is.

Is this monopoly money? Who wants that?
I, for sure, would never accept to be paid by a Greek IOU.

lol arent we all heading to disaster?

Anyway that IOU will probably be a corporate game Greeks will be oblivious to it. As for that helping bitcoin in any way? nah the IOU have value because Greece said so, Greece will keep clear of crypros

But can that save Greece from total disaster they are heading to?

Yes, it is a second currency in its essential. If this happens, it opened a new era of multiple parallel currency, which directly break the monopole situation of Euro

Then people will also adopt other currencies like bitcoin, it is worldwide accepted, unlike some local currency that only Greek government accept. And once it is accepted in Greece, it will have the first country backing it with its full economy, and other countries will follow

The greek government has some restrictions on the issue of debt. I am sure that the current bond holders will look at these IOUs as the issuance of additional debt. That would queer things up.

Yes I tweeted Varoufakis this and Tspipras as soon as they were elected in..I wonder if they actually read my tweet lol. I told them open up Greece's own crypto and back it up by assets so peeps who invest may earn a little roi also and the country could be solvent again in no time.. It wouldn't even need Europe either.

It's not really like Bitcoin though is it?
It is more like a convertable 2nd currency, so that they can print themselves out of troubles, then at their leisure pay back what they owe in euros in the future.

I don't think it would work, and it sounds like a default by another name.  They should just leave the euro and start a fresh.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-unorthodox-plan-may-keep-greece-in-the-eurozone-2015-04-08

To create the fiscal flexibility that Greece’s economy so sorely needs to reinvigorate economic growth, meet its debt payments and, ultimately, stay in the eurozone, the Greek government could adopt what economists at the Levy Institute call a “parallel financial system” that would allow the government to make payments without using hard currency.

Simply stated, this would be an IOU.

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As Greece appears to be hurtling toward insolvency, and an exit from the eurozone is back on the table, here’s how the IOU plan — which would allow Greece to increase government spending without further burdening itself with interest-accruing debt — might work.

According to Robert Parenteau, a research associate at the Levy Economist Institute of Bard College who wrote a blog post advocating the IOUs — or “tax anticipation notes,” as he termed them — they would have a few defining characteristics:

-    The IOUs would have an interest rate of zero.
-    They would be perpetual bonds with no date of maturity that would require the Greek government to repay the principal.
-    They would be transferable — just like bearer bonds.
-    Holders of the bonds could use them to pay taxes, with an accepted value of parity with the euro.

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Greek officials have definitely considered the plan. In a blog post from February 2014, Greek Economist Yanis Varoufakis, now Greece’s finance minister, wrote a blog post describing a bitcoin-like alternative currency that would be backed by future taxes.