Greek officials have previously pointed to Russia as a possible alternative sour

HarHarHar9965

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Quote from: Miracal on July 31, 2015, 03:48:25 AM

Quote from: BitmoreCoin on July 31, 2015, 12:14:14 AM

Quote from: Pab on July 30, 2015, 07:32:38 PM

Russia has no money ,thay can be bankrupt in two years,chinse,thay already bought Pireus port,but thay are not intersted in keepin greece economy alive
Important point is that Greece is Nato member and USAdont want let go Greece in Russia or Chinaarms ,becouuse of his geopolitical location

If Russia sells energy for bitcoin, not USD, then it will have some hard money. USD is controlled by US.

You nerds gotta bring bitcoin everywhere, even when there's a situation where a country is selling energy, you want the transaction to be in bitcoins. First of all, if such a trade takes place, US will be 10x suspicious and plan aggressive tactics against Russia. Russia doesn't want that attention, it wants to stay prepared and defeat U.S with smart tactics and not head to head war. Why the fuck would they sell energy for bitcoin anyway? WHY? To stay anonymous? Seriously?

If Russia does such a horrendous thing to sell energy disregarding the fact that about how much danger it puts them into, it would still end pretty badly for them. First of all, I don't think so they need to do that. U.S and Russia going on a war is something which can actually happen, guys. Russia has the best resources and even if they don't have a lot of money, I don't think they have debt anywhere close to the US.

Miracal

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Quote from: BitmoreCoin on July 31, 2015, 12:14:14 AM

Quote from: Pab on July 30, 2015, 07:32:38 PM

Russia has no money ,thay can be bankrupt in two years,chinse,thay already bought Pireus port,but thay are not intersted in keepin greece economy alive
Important point is that Greece is Nato member and USAdont want let go Greece in Russia or Chinaarms ,becouuse of his geopolitical location

If Russia sells energy for bitcoin, not USD, then it will have some hard money. USD is controlled by US.

You nerds gotta bring bitcoin everywhere, even when there's a situation where a country is selling energy, you want the transaction to be in bitcoins. First of all, if such a trade takes place, US will be 10x suspicious and plan aggressive tactics against Russia. Russia doesn't want that attention, it wants to stay prepared and defeat U.S with smart tactics and not head to head war. Why the fuck would they sell energy for bitcoin anyway? WHY? To stay anonymous? Seriously?

BitmoreCoin

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Quote from: Pab on July 30, 2015, 07:32:38 PM

Russia has no money ,thay can be bankrupt in two years,chinse,thay already bought Pireus port,but thay are not intersted in keepin greece economy alive
Important point is that Greece is Nato member and USAdont want let go Greece in Russia or Chinaarms ,becouuse of his geopolitical location

If Russia sells energy for bitcoin, not USD, then it will have some hard money. USD is controlled by US.

Pab

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Russia has no money ,thay can be bankrupt in two years,chinse,thay already bought Pireus port,but thay are not intersted in keepin greece economy alive
Important point is that Greece is Nato member and USAdont want let go Greece in Russia or Chinaarms ,becouuse of his geopolitical location

bojan92

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i don't think that anybody will give Greece money without getting something. They started selling islands in order to collect money. That is a very bad situation they are in but that is life everybody has ups and downs

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: spazzdla on April 21, 2015, 09:22:18 AM

Laws and massive armies do not mix. Screwing over China AND russia is up there with the stupidest moves in history.

Do you think that the Russians and the Chinese will invade Greece if their assets are forcibly nationalized? I don't think so. A war can be extremely expensive. It can cost more than $100 billion. A loss of $2b or $3b arising out of forcible nationalization is nothing when compared to it. Arbitration courts are a much better option.

OROBTC

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...

Greece and Russia would seem to be an unstable alliance, but I do not live in either nor am an expert.

Yes, Russia could build their NatGas pipeline through Greece, that would be good for both countries, but as mentioned above, there is not all that much money in it for Greece.

Ah, without good collateral, I doubt that Russia or China would loan Greece much money. No help there! I don´t see Russia ponying up billions of Euros to help Greece when Russia has its own problems.

Unless Russia and/or China gets a naval base. That would be a game changer. But, how would Greeks feel about that? And would the Greeks be able to "pass a new law to take them back"? Hmm...

countryfree

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Quote from: yayayo on April 18, 2015, 12:58:40 PM

Quote from: countryfree on April 18, 2015, 08:13:37 AM

Well, the Tsipras-Putin turned out to be a non event. I guess Greece doesn't have much which could be of any interest to Russia.

Well theoretically they could offer a transit corridor for Russian gas. But even that did not materialize:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/russia-hasnt-reached-deal-3-145340961.html

I any case, I really doubt the funds received from this cooperation would have been sufficient to significantly improve the situation.

If there is any cooperation between Greece and Russia, you can expect that Russia will ensure they don't waste money like the EU did. Putin is smart, he might use Greece for strategic purposes to split up the EU.

ya.ya.yo!

Wow, I hadn't seen that coming. Could be big.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/22/business/international/greece-tsipras-russia-gazprom-pipeline.html?_r=0

A lot will depend on Italy, it would the first customer.

cellard

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Quote from: leen93 on April 18, 2015, 06:48:27 AM

http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/greece-will-need-to-tap-2-billion-from-public-funds-to-pay-its-civil-service-workers-at-the-end-of-the-month-10186486.html

Greece will need to tap €2 billion from public funds to pay its civil service workers at the end of the month

News is getting worse and worse every day...

Everyone that isnt a naive kid knows that the debts will never get paid. It really comes down to how fast is it refinanced with new debt. That rate has to be below a certain level to be acceptable.

The ECB will be implementing QE within the next 4 months. There may be an unstated side deal here for the ECB to buy up lots of Greek new issues,, especially if there is a market shortage of other Eurozone bonds.

spazzdla

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Quote from: BitmoreCoin on April 11, 2015, 03:15:35 AM

Quote from: ashour on April 11, 2015, 02:20:10 AM

China will play an important role as well, since the Chinese are really interested in the Piraeus port. Russian and China will probably help Greece for exchanges like the Piraeus port etc.

Greece can sell the Piraeus port and pass a law to get it back later.

Laws and massive armies do not mix. Screwing over China AND russia is up there with the stupidest moves in history.

yayayo

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Quote from: countryfree on April 18, 2015, 08:13:37 AM

Well, the Tsipras-Putin turned out to be a non event. I guess Greece doesn't have much which could be of any interest to Russia.

Well theoretically they could offer a transit corridor for Russian gas. But even that did not materialize:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/russia-hasnt-reached-deal-3-145340961.html

I any case, I really doubt the funds received from this cooperation would have been sufficient to significantly improve the situation.

If there is any cooperation between Greece and Russia, you can expect that Russia will ensure they don't waste money like the EU did. Putin is smart, he might use Greece for strategic purposes to split up the EU.

ya.ya.yo!

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

Well, the Tsipras-Putin turned out to be a non event. I guess Greece doesn't have much which could be of any interest to Russia.

leen93

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http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/greece-will-need-to-tap-2-billion-from-public-funds-to-pay-its-civil-service-workers-at-the-end-of-the-month-10186486.html

Greece will need to tap €2 billion from public funds to pay its civil service workers at the end of the month

News is getting worse and worse every day...

qiwoman2

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Grexit is the only solution for Greece. Once out Greece needs to re align itself with healthier and less corrupt political and socio economic practices. Greeks should not only unite in the marches against this and that but should work harder and become stronger as a nation. When every mother wants to send her son or daughter to university but no one wants to go back to the villages and work the land, therein you have the main problem we have in my home country Greece..

deisik

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Quote from: BillyBobZorton on April 16, 2015, 08:08:50 AM

Quote from: deisik on April 16, 2015, 02:58:15 AM

Quote from: cellard on April 15, 2015, 07:31:43 PM

They only have 2 ways out from this dead end:

1) Go on with the reforms and keep paying the debt, which will frustrate everyone that voted them.
2) Take the risk and become sovereign, with the possibility of shit backfiring and ending up even worse.

It makes sense to take the risk and become sovereign, thus defaulting on their debt, but to go on with reforms paying out the debt? I guess most Greeks think that someone else should pay for the reforms in question, and to a point I understand them...

Most of the debt is not legitimate, it's not Greek's citizens that their politicians were corrupted for decades piling up debt and more debt.

How is it not legitimate? I guess, to make it no longer legitimate the Greek populace should make revolution and topple their government by force. But then the Greek property abroad could be confiscated as retaliatory measures taken by the holders of debt (if there is any, of course)...

BillyBobZorton

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Quote from: deisik on April 16, 2015, 02:58:15 AM

Quote from: cellard on April 15, 2015, 07:31:43 PM

They only have 2 ways out from this dead end:

1) Go on with the reforms and keep paying the debt, which will frustrate everyone that voted them.
2) Take the risk and become sovereign, with the possibility of shit backfiring and ending up even worse.

It makes sense to take the risk and become sovereign, thus defaulting on their debt, but to go on with reforms paying out the debt? I guess most Greeks think that someone else should pay for the reforms in question, and to a point I understand them...

Most of the debt is not legitimate, it's not Greek's citizens that their politicians were corrupted for decades piling up debt and more debt.

deisik

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Quote from: cellard on April 15, 2015, 07:31:43 PM

They only have 2 ways out from this dead end:

1) Go on with the reforms and keep paying the debt, which will frustrate everyone that voted them.
2) Take the risk and become sovereign, with the possibility of shit backfiring and ending up even worse.

It makes sense to take the risk and become sovereign, thus defaulting on their debt, but to go on with reforms paying out the debt? I guess most Greeks think that someone else should pay for the reforms in question, and to a point I understand them...

galbros

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The Russians have major problems of their own. Unless Greece thinks purchasing some second hand military gear is the answer, Putin has little to offer. This was pretty clear after their summit meeting a few days ago, Putin offers moral support, but nothing else.

The "good" news is that a Greek exit now would not be so disruptive to the rest of Europe.

cellard

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They only have 2 ways out from this dead end:

1) Go on with the reforms and keep paying the debt, which will frustrate everyone that voted them.
2) Take the risk and become sovereign, with the possibility of shit backfiring and ending up even worse.

deisik

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Quote from: countryfree on April 12, 2015, 10:19:21 AM

Greece may get some help from Russia, but I wonder what Russia will ask in return. Nothing's free.

This is no brainer. They will most obviously ask to lift sanctions (if Greece leaves the EU, it will apparently be no longer bound by them), or, at least, make it more difficult to impose new ones in the future, if it comes to that and Greece remains in the EU. Actually, Greece is not the only country in the EU which is not happy with the idea of sanctions against Russia, so Putin is evidently trying to split the EU from inside in the matter...

NUFCrichard

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Quote from: aso118 on April 13, 2015, 07:10:55 PM

Quote from: NUFCrichard on April 13, 2015, 08:26:54 AM

If they help out Greece it will be very interesting, their GDP per person is lots less than Greece's, how often have poorer countries bailed out richer ones?

I would say it is comparable. On a PPP basis, Russia has a per capita GDP of $24.3K vs Greece's $25.1K in 2013. I guess 2014 figures would be a lot worse for Greece. Tongue

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_capita

I'm not sure about that, Russia hardly had a great 2014 with so many sanctions against them and the price of oil plummeting!
Greece has slowed their decline, there was a time last year when they were the fastest growing economy in the EU, that's a bit like a tallest dwarf competition, but it was the case (I think in Q3 2014)

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Quote from: NUFCrichard on April 13, 2015, 08:26:54 AM

If they help out Greece it will be very interesting, their GDP per person is lots less than Greece's, how often have poorer countries bailed out richer ones?

I would say it is comparable. On a PPP basis, Russia has a per capita GDP of $24.3K vs Greece's $25.1K in 2013. I guess 2014 figures would be a lot worse for Greece. Tongue

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_capita

ashour

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Quote from: Natalia_AnatolioPAMM on April 12, 2015, 02:36:54 PM

Quote from: countryfree on April 12, 2015, 10:19:21 AM

Greece may get some help from Russia, but I wonder what Russia will ask in return. Nothing's free.

I think a bit better reputation would be enough

Russia will probably want an ally in the area, and that would be Greece. The greek Piraeus port is really important for the Russians and Chinese that is why the two countries are so engaged to make deals.

NUFCrichard

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Quote from: Hazir on April 12, 2015, 08:41:58 PM

Quote from: Natalia_AnatolioPAMM on April 12, 2015, 02:36:54 PM

Quote from: countryfree on April 12, 2015, 10:19:21 AM

Greece may get some help from Russia, but I wonder what Russia will ask in return. Nothing's free.

I think a bit better reputation would be enough

Not for Russians, they don't care about their reputation or how western nations are perceiving them. They just want to dominate and rule others. It would be a grim day when Greece will become another Russia's tool.
Honestly it would be best for Greece to just leave eurozone and abandon European Union. They need to test how to deal with Russia without losing more than they have in the process.

I see Russia as more of the wildcard that goes against what the west wants.

They don't do everything right, for example gay rights and dodgy elections, but I like a lot of their politics. They are moving towards a gold backed currency and are generally against getting involved in wars (that aren't on their own doorstep). As I say, they aren't perfect, but there are lots of things we could adopt from them.

If they help out Greece it will be very interesting, their GDP per person is lots less than Greece's, how often have poorer countries bailed out richer ones?

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Quote from: Natalia_AnatolioPAMM on April 12, 2015, 02:36:54 PM

Quote from: countryfree on April 12, 2015, 10:19:21 AM

Greece may get some help from Russia, but I wonder what Russia will ask in return. Nothing's free.

I think a bit better reputation would be enough

Not for Russians, they don't care about their reputation or how western nations are perceiving them. They just want to dominate and rule others. It would be a grim day when Greece will become another Russia's tool.
Honestly it would be best for Greece to just leave eurozone and abandon European Union. They need to test how to deal with Russia without losing more than they have in the process.

oblivi

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Varoufakis and Tsipras are getting ready to leave the eurozone playing the ambiguity game, while gaining alliances on the side. It's all set and done already.

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Quote from: countryfree on April 12, 2015, 10:19:21 AM

Greece may get some help from Russia, but I wonder what Russia will ask in return. Nothing's free.

I think a bit better reputation would be enough

Netnox

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If greece exits the euro then the euro is done as the trust is gone and the concept has failed and more south european countries will follow. euro should just stay between west european countries. I would just exit euro if i were greece like switzerland and england are.

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Greece may get some help from Russia, but I wonder what Russia will ask in return. Nothing's free.

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Quote from: ?? on ??

When Putin hands help to someone, he's going to want x3 back... so I don't know what Tsipras is trying to do. They are going to run away from a debt to get into another debt. The question is if it's worth it.

He is probably using the threat of Russia to get a better deal from the EU.

maku

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Why EU keep trying to help Greece? They know that Greeks brought this crisis upon themselves, by years and years of bad management of their economy. Why now EU or any other country need to pay their debt?
Greece should follow Iceland steps and file for bankruptcy of nation, also they should abandon the €. It is bad currency for underdeveloped economics like Greece has.

BillyBobZorton

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Quote from: qiwoman2 on April 09, 2015, 08:22:41 AM

I said from the beginning when Tsipras got elected that he surely has more than one ace up his sleeve. He is firm in not backing down and relenting to the EU to be involved with the Troika again because that is what he got elected for to get Greece out of being a peripheral slave to the the Northern EuropeansMasters and also bent on it's knees because of the rich tax evaders and corrupt politicians from within the country itself.

Well, they've been paying anyway and they've said again that they want to remain in the European union.. so they aren't that hardcore about their sovereignty, otherwise they would have gotten the fuck out the Euro and back to Drachma ages ago.

BitmoreCoin

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Quote from: ashour on April 11, 2015, 02:20:10 AM

China will play an important role as well, since the Chinese are really interested in the Piraeus port. Russian and China will probably help Greece for exchanges like the Piraeus port etc.

Greece can sell the Piraeus port and pass a law to get it back later.

ashour

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China will play an important role as well, since the Chinese are really interested in the Piraeus port. Russian and China will probably help Greece for exchanges like the Piraeus port etc.

qiwoman2

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I said from the beginning when Tsipras got elected that he surely has more than one ace up his sleeve. He is firm in not backing down and relenting to the EU to be involved with the Troika again because that is what he got elected for to get Greece out of being a peripheral slave to the the Northern EuropeansMasters and also bent on it's knees because of the rich tax evaders and corrupt politicians from within the country itself.

hua_hui

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Greece has not received bailout funds since August last year, as the lenders are dissatisfied with the pace of Greek reforms. Greece's new government is embroiled in negotiations with the EU and IMF to unblock a bailout package. A Greek repayment of €448m to the International Monetary Fund is due this Thursday. Greece is needing support from outside EU.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32213161

Topic: Greek officials have previously pointed to Russia as a possible alternative sour (Read 2437 times)