Topic: Greenaddress uses deceptive buissness practices, could cost users millions. (Read 5520 times)

I'm no shrill, I'm very real.

For anyone not following along here the account "henrydavidharris" is just a shill account by FrozenBit. As is "c5h3ris1253". And very likely user "Vintage" as well. And I'm sure there are more.

If it's even possible that there is someone who couldn't see right through that.

FrozenBit thanks for updating the Website, but now it a bigger catastrophe than before. FrozenBit is not the only Multiplatform and Multi Signature Website

All the bugs we were aware of have been fixed.

Update for iOS app currently pending at the apple store but an updated and fixed version is available at https://rink.hockeyapp.net/recruit/f243ae313c3d46aab67951e76b63447b if people want to try the latest.

I agree with your sentiment byteberry, this conversation can be closed as far as I'm concerned.

Cheers!

I see that this is a endless discussion.

Every Wallet has a negative and a positive site, nothing is perfect. And why we all discus and compare two total different Wallet's also FB is not now Open Source and there is no working Version out not even TestNet.

So I think we need to stop and Close this Topic.

To Greenaddress.it fix you little bugs

To FrozenBit first be ready and than write and compare.

PS: I really love Greenaddress.it,.this is one of the best Wallet, I use it as my Main "Shopping" Wallet

PPS: FrozenBit please change your Homepage, you are not the first Multi Signature Wallet, that is not very trustfully

PPPS: FrozenBit your Website is down, that is not good for a Wallet. If you tell me what you for your Homepage I could rent you one my Server

 Yeah less than professional. I couldn't see a reason why anyone would trust this guy.

 From what I've seen from this tryexcept clown I've pulled my coins out.  

 I cannot use this service knowing this clown is running, or affiliated with it.

 He's wearing a red shirt for sure m8, tread lightly.

Usually we get told off for the app speed but it is true we worked on improving it a lot lately. 

Still a bit of work to do to smooth the UX though.

Anyway, good to hear! thanks for the compliment!

There is no Information about their Server, the IP is from CloudFlare. The 10 dollar you saw is a suggestion for a similar Domain Name.

I use their App, and I really don't have any problem. The Speed is also fantastic

 WARNING, I've seen this guy point all of his sites issues on frozenbit. Jesus m8 can you not fix the issues you have with your own site?


 This tryexcept guy is running a scam, Idc if you listen to me or not. The tide will come in eventually.



 Besides this, good luck with both of your services. If it's like it described it'll work. You'll always have haters and trolls. and m8 that's what this tryexcept guy is.


EDIT: Greenaddress really needs to get a new server and fix their app. They talk pretty large but not a single fix has been rolled out. It seems greenaddress is on a 10$ server aswell. I didn't bother looking any of it up but http://who.is/whois/greenaddress.it

 

Hidden who is just like that guy claimed..



 Greenaddress is indeed sketchy.

The best is for only 10Euro they could get their own IP, but with a low budget you get only low budget Server

Entirely possible.

I forgot to add in my previous comment: this can be either incompetence (using a shared server but perhaps they don't own the other services) or malice (they own the other services too).

Either way, not the way to run any bitcoin service IMHO and given the twitter 8k followers I have many doubts regarding their business practices.

Based on your Information is FrozenBit a WebSite with German IP, the owner of this IP is Intergenia Ag, it is the Mother Company of many German low budget WebHoster (Web Space PHP MySql)

It is a shared Server, that is the reason for so much Websites at one IP

Off Topic :

I buyed Servers from 5hosting with 5IP's (I think this is enough). Now I only need a good Domain Name. And than I am on the way to my Server Cluster to get the Master Key and for only a few Euros they manage my Server Cluster 

byteberry, don't waste your time

1) frozenbit.io and frozenb.it are both registered using HIDDEN whois information (the latter registered via http://www.netim.com/)

2) frozenbit.io is on a server in germany, IP 85.25.43.36, you can check via this http://www.crimeflare.com for frozenbit.io

3) check it: indeed the server has frozenbit.io answering , just try it: wget --header="Host: frozenbit.io" 85.25.43.36

4) they run LOTS of services there! https://www.virustotal.com/en/ip-address/85.25.43.36/information/

frozenbit.io
crackinghome.com
fane.co
redemptioncraft.org
scriptznull.info

And these too!!

2014-06-13 allverdantgroup.tk
2014-05-04 anoncloud.pw
2014-06-03 arqel.com
2014-04-11 barclayaks.com
2014-05-11 cablemars.com
2014-03-18 edesonspy.tk
2014-05-08 l-comus.com
2014-06-13 sevdalinka.info
2014-06-04 shineopulencelimited.com
2014-03-23 so-like.net


5) they have 8000 followers on twitter but no code to show and no way to register a new account on their site

6) no surnames

7) FUD & SCAM

alarming number of open ports on their server:

20/tcp  closed ftp-data
21/tcp  open   ftp
22/tcp  open   ssh
25/tcp  open   smtp
53/tcp  open   domain
80/tcp  open   http
110/tcp open   pop3
143/tcp open   imap
443/tcp open   https
465/tcp open   smtps
587/tcp open   submission
993/tcp open   imaps
995/tcp open   pop3s


so, Calvin and all the others, now you can disappear please?

 Send me an email at [email protected]

 I'll help you out with your cloud. Free.

Hi, thanks for you reply, I don't really want to trust a US Company USA PATRIOT Act


Also thank you for the reply, but the business practices from FB (FrozenBit [OMG FaceBook ;-)] are not better

They need update their Website, they are not the first Multi-Sig Wallet.

I would give FB a chance, and also Greenaddress.it. I don't know what happened I really don't have enough time *, but everyone can do a mistake, the good think is every mistake can be corrected.

*Building a Encrypted Cloud, I need help please PM

This topic is about how Greenaddress is less than truthful with their business practices m8.

 It really looks like greenaddress aka tryexecpt is trying to point blame on this frozenbit guy. I have never heard of them before now actually, who knows. They're trying to cover their ass.


 That is a huge red flag, really this tryexecpt (Lawrence) guy is sketchy as hell. It looks like marco is his shill aswell.

 Please visit our site for information on us, thanks.

http://frozenbit.io/contact


 Our twitter links to everyone who's actively behind the project.

Yasmine
Cole
Calvin
and Jamie

To much English for my brain.

So is this Topic against Greenaddress.it or against FrozenBit. I used Greenaddress.it since start and never had a problem. The Support answers very fast and the best it is OpenSource.

To FrozenBit, please be neutral if you want to be successful you need to be more business like and not to write "bad thinks" about a other Company. We also don't know who you are, No Address no Name .... . A good Wallet need a reliable Person behind.

[GreenAddressit Limited - Vincenti Buildings 28/19 (Suite No. 1405), Strait Street
VLT1432 Valletta, Malta, VAT: MT21552512]

 Armory is a good client, I recommend really anything that doesn't choke you out of access to your keys. The best wallets you could really use abide by this.

Do you take your laptop and cold storage key storage device I to shops with you and then connect to the internet and wait for the Blockchain to sync before you pay the cashier? No, you drop some small change in a mobile wallet.

Both methods complement each other, I don't think it's ..."armory only".

 I agree, that's the number 1 option. Or a paper wallet.

I should have mentioned that I also meant using a solid, tested Bitcoin client that is drama-free, like Armory.

 I agree green address needs someone to do PR, and address these reddit articles that have been posted.

 It's hard to recover from a tarnished reputation.


 I suggest anyone whos currently using greenaddress to take all the evidence above and consider http://frozenbit.io

 We don't control your keys, were open-source and have no central server.


 lets not forget features like:

2FA
SMS Balance Alerts
Real world escrow
Multisignature wallets
AND
User controlled keys

+1

If you want to salvage anything out of this you should seriously consider just stopping this. It does not reflect well on your business and it does not instill trust in people who might be potential customers.

People in bitcoin are smart and they're not going to let problems slip by. As a competitor you should leave it to the real users to criticise and not tarnish your own reputation by trying to sling mud in a public setting.

Also, you should probably hire someone to do your public relations. Or just stop altogether if it's not an expense that fits your budget.

FrozenBit, you are a soul without shame.

Criticism is fine, I actively embrace it.


 However, we saw issues with wallets and we've attempted to make a wallet that's more secure and that we have nothing to do with. Meaning we have no hand in the process of using the wallet. Alot of services fake security by saying there is no central server, there is.

 It seems we're getting blamed for criticism of another services short comings, it's fine I guess we are doing something right.

 That's fine aswell, we are taking our time and listening to criticism look at our previous post history ~ we've changed alot of things.

Seems others would agree with me: http://bitcoinpete.com/2014/05/05/on-reusing-bitcoin-addresses/

 We want things to be right, not release code that you try to use and it doesn't work. Alot of people are stuck using shit products already, we aren't one of them.

 I do encourage questions, but we are feeding a service troll



 So don't point these articles at us, you have some things to answer for you've actively ignored.




Amen, This is always an option. Infact this is highly recommended .

Solution: just manage your own Bitcoins and avoid the drama.

This is the third separate time I've seen Frozenbit accused of using sockpuppets. At first in the older thread here on the main board I didn't pay it too much attention. But with another post on reddit a little while ago that had users pointing out all the new accounts and now this. I think it's pretty clear what's going on. Not to mention the obvious purchasing of twitter followers that demonstrates a willingness to use questionable methods.

And check the post history of the OP here. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7174840 is his first post on the forum...lol...nice "interview". And then he makes this thread with the title "Greenaddress uses deceptive buissness practices, could cost users millions." Really?

Way to ruin any legitimate chance your project had at success by a laughably bad attempt at manipulating public opinion. Like honestly, what were you thinking? Did you not think that people would see through all of this? You could have at least tried or something.

Meh, you are more fake than your fake followers on twitter https://twitter.com/FrozenBitIO

 It appears GreenAddress is attempting to run a scam, or just using children tactics.

It appears FrozenBit has been brought into this mix somehow. I have greater assumptions of why this is, mostly because greenaddress is pointing fingers.

If this is about what was on the front page of reddit yesterday which I've been messaged about I never clicked on that link and didn't know in detail what it was about. If you respond to bad criticism by feeding the troll you're just hurting yourself. Don't point fingers, instead address it which I haven't seen you do. However, I can assure you we are NOT behind this.

 Anyway I invite you to read about our service http://frozenbit.io, and wait for launch. Since we're both multisig I don't see what you're complaining for. Multisig is about awareness. All of my talks with https://www.BitGo.com have been about spreading awareness not crying when someone comes into the mix who does things a little different. I think you could learn some things from that playbook.

 Anyway the Gist is, don't point fingers and address what this guy is saying. It's not that hard is it?

 Now you can put your finger down.

EDIT: Link to Greenaddress using deceptive buissness practices - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7587965

EDIT: Link to Greenaddress using peddlers to hide that on reddit - http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/29fdhu/greenaddress_is_using_peddlers_to_hide_bad/

 However, lawrence appears to be trolling, must not feed trolls.

EDIT: It doesn't matter if they're affiliated with FrozenBit or not. It's a matter of their opinion on what they see above, if you can't take criticism you're in the wrong business.

 To answer your questions

1.) Is that a question?

2.) Is that a question?

3.) Ok

4.) No, I just see this as something people just aren't doing. It's much easier to just let users control all their keys instead of lying to them.


EDIT: Your more fake than your reddit accounts:  http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/29fdhu/greenaddress_is_using_peddlers_to_hide_bad/

WTF, how many fake followers do you have  

The more i look into frozenbit the more I smell.

What should I address?

I asked you questions which you didn't answer

How can I address emptiness? I mean I'm tempted but there is really nothing to evaluate other than FUD and false advertising.

 Lol at you ignoring what I said above. Why aren't you addressing what this guy posted?

so the question is, is frozenbit a scam or just incompetent people with stupid childish tactics?

i know what you are going to say: both.

same minds think alike. i have found many "coming soon" sites asking you to supply email usernames and passwords to get updates.

normally just an update subscriber asks for email only..

 It appears FrozenBit has been brought into this mix somehow. I have greater assumptions of why this is, mostly because greenaddress is pointing fingers.

If this is about what was on the front page of reddit yesterday which I've been messaged about I never clicked on that link and didn't know in detail what it was about. If you respond to bad criticism by feeding the troll you're just hurting yourself. Don't point fingers, instead address it which I haven't seen you do. However, I can assure you we are NOT behind this.

 Anyway I invite you to read about our service http://frozenbit.io, and wait for launch. Since we're both multisig I don't see what you're complaining for. Multisig is about awareness. All of my talks with https://www.BitGo.com have been about spreading awareness not crying when someone comes into the mix who does things a little different. I think you could learn some things from that playbook.

 Anyway the Gist is, don't point fingers and address what this guy is saying. It's not that hard is it?

 Now you can put your finger down.

EDIT: Link to Greenaddress using deceptive buissness practices - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7587965

EDIT: Link to Greenaddress using peddlers to hide that on reddit - http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/29fdhu/greenaddress_is_using_peddlers_to_hide_bad/

 However, lawrence appears to be trolling, must not feed trolls.

EDIT: It doesn't matter if they're affiliated with FrozenBit or not. It's a matter of their opinion on what they see above, if you can't take criticism you're in the wrong business.

the OP, c5h3ris1253 are both sockpuppets of frozenbit.

which im slowly finding out that they too are not going to offer an opensource tool

i guess its a bit of call someone else a bad name to make yourself look good, school playground tactics.

it surprised me more that i told the guy from frozen bit to make some javascriot code (for offline processing) where people can just type in a privkey offline, destination, amount. and it forms a signed TX. (most secure way) and only the signed TX gets sent to a website (pushTX api)

but he semed to think 2 multisigs, google 2FA, username and password was more user friendly..

(silly moronic minds) if you need to supply a service secret info... they then own it!

well, if you don't mind I'll wait for someone with no frozenbit history to tell me to not look into this

especially given nobody can just go on the frozenbit site and register, it does not work, nor you can find any code on github

 

Well it looks like he is just a fan of another wallet. Of course he would agree with someone who agrees with him. I wouldn't look too much into it. Not everyone uses or likes the same wallet.

Random? Who said random? not random.

Either malice or incompetence but I really don't care, if you spread FUD you are a troll.

Perhaps the post and the user are only related in that they both spread FUD but otherwise they do look very correlated and hence the guess, feel free to ignore it but I would not be surprised in the least if someone that happily and knowingly does false advertising and spreading FUD on bitcointalk is also capable of doing so on reddit!

Edit: Sorry everyone, i've been feeding the troll sockpuppet

Why point fingers at a random reddit user? There is no proof other than that he agrees with the troll.

Rodolfo from Coinkite here, I've seen this posts on reddit a few times. And chat with Lawrence from GreenAddress before, as much as I appreciate the vote of confidence on our product, this posts look like FUD to me.

Don't feed the troll.

I don't think this has anything to do with the coinkite guys, simply OP is trying to make it appear as if the Coinkite guys are doing this but I'm pretty sure it is not them.

If I had to guess, I'd say there is someone else behind this trolling.

In case the account gets deleted.

2 days old user that advertises coinkite.com at his first post?

I've met the guy from Greenaddress.it personally, and he doesn't strike me as trying to use deceptive business practices. Indeed he seems pretty focused on  making a solid product and pretty firm about not wanting to actually be able to hold IE: steal people's money.

So I'm skeptical about OP's claims at best.

I'm glad someone covered this! finally!   

oh wait, you are full of it! how's your trolling working out on reddit? 

Did you find the code you suggested being malicious? No ? 

You know, it's all on github! 

https://github.com/greenaddress/WalletCordova

and

https://github.com/greenaddress/WalletCrx

Looking forward to get free code reviews! 

p.s. Someone did mention my username but I didn't get the message (probably username case sensitive vs insensitive), so I only found out about it 12 hours later .. sounds like you are wasting your time anyway.

Lol at reddit censorship, and greenaddress botting downvotes:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/29f6zw/greenaddress_uses_deceptive_buissness_practices/?sort=new


http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/29fdhu/greenaddress_is_using_peddlers_to_hide_bad/

 It appears reddit has censored the last post, someone saw what was happening and is calling greenaddress out about their botting and spamming tactics.

 I couldn't agree more, stick with opensource clients.

 And always

always


always

stay in control of your keys.

im more surprised that people are just throwing money at services they do not know..

maybe i should rent a shop in my town, put the word bank on the entrance and see if the person quoted in the OP would throw $1700(3btc) at me without thinking or checking

rule one of bitcoin. if your not happy throwing X amount at a stranger on the street simply because he said he will look after your money. dont do it online. atleast on the street you can punch him in the face if he runs off

Saw this on reddit and it was removed. Did greenaddress get them to remove it cuz this isn't uplifting to them? I'm wondering what they have to say about this.

They're also back peddling on it aswell:

 Look here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/29fdhu/greenaddress_is_using_peddlers_to_hide_bad/

 Yeah what that guy said in comments. It looks like they're running a large peddling campaign.

 Thanks for bringing this up OP
+1

EDIT: WOW, Green address is peddling like crazy over that post hahah

Hello everyone, something bothered me today as I was reading through some new services. I noticed a service called greenaddress, which boasts 2 of 2 "multisig" wallets. I assumed this was something that could benefit me as I'm quite protective of my bitcoin. I've always wanted to try multisig and this "looked" like an easy adoption tool, then I noticed they had a mobile app.

Boy was I wrong about all of that. First off I tried their mobile app, it didn't work I was running IOS 7.1 and all that happened upon logging in was an error message. It wasn't possible to get pass the pin login. This was offsetting but didn't deter me from trying the site out. The site was alright in general except it didn't run off of HSTS which just screams hackable, not to mention a quick review of their service points towards a central server. So we already have 2 things against them, they use central servers and they released an app without testing it to see if it was working.

Pointing towards that central server is the fact both keys are appointed on their service. No generation appears to be done by the user, us. A quick review of the source code PROVES this. Lets for a second assume these guys are running an honest service. I guess I'm fine with that fact they generate keys, however, I decided to do a little more research on these guys. Their location checked out and their VAT number was alright. So we can assume their a real business and the people behind the service is real or just well hidden. Affirming this I appointed my attention to site, features, and their white paper.

For starters you can look at their name, green address, which is simply an address you can trust without any confirmations because it's orgin from a reputable place. The name is decietful, really it's false security to users. Continuing on I noticed they had an instant confirmation feature, which comes from the idea of a "Green address" (see above). So I tried it out, It didn't work. I did some research on it and found out that for others it didn't work. So really it's just a box on their spend bitcoins page: http://prntscr.com/3wjezk (*They deleted the picture!!!) . More issues soon surfaced, not being exclusive to their ios app their android app was plagued with bugs and reports of coins going missing. This was alarming to me, almost as if they released green address without any kind of security review or code audit?

Let's focus on what they call a life line for users in their white paper. It stems from a protocol called n-locktime. To make it easy to understand it just means that after a certain amount of time their key "Expires" and is no longer needed to spend funds. A wallet provider is by default not to be trusted, but greenaddress doesn't want you to be cautious they make it cumbersome to be able to secure your funds. If you focus your attention on what's above about their central server it appears this may not be true. Now I wouldn't claim this without trying. I can attest this feature is cumbersome and requires you to constantly redopsit if you don't want to lost access to your funds forever. Doing this with their buggy interface was like trying to find the needle in the haystack, first I had to 2fa which didn't bother me that much since it's "security" but oh-well. Then it required me to pay another tx fee, I had around 3 bitcoin on the site so that was kinda costly. Finally after losing time and bitcoin I have another day until the whole nlocktime debacle happens again.

These lies and deceit should NOT be ignored. Their site is pretty but there are way too many red flags. I'm warning you some things are not right, an easy google search brings up more problems than positives. Upon my own personal experience I would NOT recommend greenaddress to anyone. Instead I would use https://www.coinkite.com , they're a leading innovator in bitcoins terminals, wallets and are supporting multisignature p2sh wallets which I feel are the easiest and most user friendly wallets you could use.



EDIT: I am not part of coinkite, I just recommend their service.