Topic: [Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide [1st Feb 2016] - page 29. (Read 131506 times)
October 06, 2014, 05:36:35 PM
I have a paper copy of the logs. They, of course, cherry picked the worst of it and took it out of context to try and make a case. That should tell you something.
October 06, 2014, 03:50:06 PM
Dogie,
Now that your employer has started shipping the abomination that is the S4 with all it's failings, can we expect a realistic update on your guide?
Now that your employer has started shipping the abomination that is the S4 with all it's failings, can we expect a realistic update on your guide?
is it that bad
October 06, 2014, 03:28:20 PM
Zerlan talking about cognitive dissonance, I'm mind blown.
You need psychiatric treatment urgently.
You need psychiatric treatment urgently.
After reading the BFL Skype chat logs (which completely validate a mountain of accusations made against BFL/Josh) the first thing I did was grab some popcorn and come here to see if Josh was still at it and sure enough I am not disappointed. This is a well documented text book case of cognitive dissonance. Reading his latest efforts to spin things and insult his accusers is like watching a black hole collapsing before it goes supernova. Fascinating stuff.
It's been a long time waiting to see if their lies would catch up to them and it looks like it's finally going to happen..
I'm actually interested in the full chat log. Is this the worst the FTC could pull out or just some examples? Have we been given the full story here? Its hard to know with the 30 page or so jumps in the log.
The FTC has a copy of it, as does Josh's computer if they would let him gain access to it.
October 06, 2014, 02:47:13 PM
like watching a black hole collapsing before it goes supernova. Fascinating stuff.
October 06, 2014, 02:11:11 PM
Zerlan talking about cognitive dissonance, I'm mind blown.
You need psychiatric treatment urgently.
You need psychiatric treatment urgently.
After reading the BFL Skype chat logs (which completely validate a mountain of accusations made against BFL/Josh) the first thing I did was grab some popcorn and come here to see if Josh was still at it and sure enough I am not disappointed. This is a well documented text book case of cognitive dissonance. Reading his latest efforts to spin things and insult his accusers is like watching a black hole collapsing before it goes supernova. Fascinating stuff.
It's been a long time waiting to see if their lies would catch up to them and it looks like it's finally going to happen..
October 06, 2014, 10:14:02 AM
Guys, take it down a notch in here. Josh, were you called back in to or are you going to rest up now?
Would Josh take it down a notch ? Why do you care about him so much all of a sudden ?I don't, but this is my thread not another anti BFL thread.
October 06, 2014, 07:33:08 AM
Dogie,
Now that your employer has started shipping the abomination that is the S4 with all it's failings, can we expect a realistic update on your guide?
Now that your employer has started shipping the abomination that is the S4 with all it's failings, can we expect a realistic update on your guide?
Pictures processing now. I'll be back to the thread once its done - no point delaying doing both properly trying to do both at once.
October 06, 2014, 06:57:40 AM
Dogie,
Now that your employer has started shipping the abomination that is the S4 with all it's failings, can we expect a realistic update on your guide?
Now that your employer has started shipping the abomination that is the S4 with all it's failings, can we expect a realistic update on your guide?
October 06, 2014, 06:06:22 AM
Guys, take it down a notch in here.
Sorry, Josh called me an idiot, so I can't leave it at that. He still refuses to admit that BFL was lying about their shipping schedule for the entire second half of 2013 and well into 2014, claiming that the top Monarch page wasn't relevant, and only the regularly updated order page was material. So here we go.On December 7, the Monarch page clearly stated (the bold is theirs, as you can see by visiting the archived page):
Quote
All manufacturers in this space have experienced some degree of delay with their first generation ASIC. Every last one of them, so we're reluctant to give a specific delivery date. However, this is our second generation, so we have much greater clarity on the process and we feel our timeline to begin shipments towards the end of the year is solid. Orders are shipped in order date priority so any order placed now should be expected to be delivered in February.
Wait a minute! That would seem to indicate that they're still on schedule, with shipping of the mythical bullet run units already underway, but new orders would have to wait until February due to the vast backlog. No lies there, right? Especially since the preceding page still said "Tape out August 2013, November/December - Initial Shipping (Sold out)".
The Monarch page was next updated on February 9, 2014 (I've underlined the most relevant part):
Quote
However, this is our second generation, so we have much greater clarity on the process and plan to begin shipments in January 2014. Orders are shipped in order date priority so any order placed now should be expected to be delivered in March.
Given the alleged timely nature of this information, you might be led to believe that shipping had already begun and if you were fast enough in getting an order in, all that efficient hashing power would be yours by the end of March. Last but not least, let's take a look at the first appearance of the mighty Imperial Monarch, which - at an amazing 1 TH/s - would strike fear into the hearts of all BFL competitors. On April 3, 2014, the 1 TH/s Monarch page stated:
Quote
However, this is our second generation, so we have much greater clarity on the process and plan to begin shipments in March 2014. Orders are shipped in order date priority so any order placed now should be expected to be delivered in June.
Oops.Now do you understand why people are calling BFL - and you - liars, Josh?
October 06, 2014, 06:05:04 AM
Moderators need to move all Josh's diatribe to BFL Fucked Us Over Again they are not even manufacturing units anymore why is BFL even on the list?
October 06, 2014, 05:59:42 AM
Do you dumb asses really not understand how advertising works?
Your understanding of advertising is obviously soooooooooooooooooooooooo good that you were able to get the attention of the FTC. Even got a judge to agree to an ex parte TRO that has been extended now LOL.
Yup you guys advertised yourself right out of business hahaha, great job asshole!
October 06, 2014, 05:57:52 AM
Guys, take it down a notch in here. Josh, were you called back in to or are you going to rest up now?
October 06, 2014, 05:38:37 AM
As I've explained now, how many times? You go count, because it's more than I care to contemplate... not sure why I have to keep explaining the same thing over and over, but anyway... that page was not updated for months. It was true at the time of creation and was not updated or even looked at. It was old advertising material, so why would we go back and revisit it? When you clicked the pre-order now button, you were taken to the actual order page with the updated information.
Do you dumb asses really not understand how advertising works?
Just because something is not true NOW doesn't mean wasn't true in the PAST.
When you create something in the past, if you don't go back and update it, it DOESN'T GET CHANGED.
I thought this was a self-evident fact of life, but apparently you mouth breathers can't even grasp this simple concept of the arrow of time and cause and effect.
Absolutely amazing. Talk about cognitive dissonance, wow.
Do you dumb asses really not understand how advertising works?
Just because something is not true NOW doesn't mean wasn't true in the PAST.
When you create something in the past, if you don't go back and update it, it DOESN'T GET CHANGED.
I thought this was a self-evident fact of life, but apparently you mouth breathers can't even grasp this simple concept of the arrow of time and cause and effect.
Absolutely amazing. Talk about cognitive dissonance, wow.
You said it !
*mumbles something about bunker mentality*
Quote
October 16th, 2013
https://web.archive.org/web/20131016065038/http://www.butterflylabs.com/monarch/
November 16th, 2013
https://web.archive.org/web/20131117094636/http://www.butterflylabs.com/monarch
December 24th, 2013
https://web.archive.org/web/20131224125958/http://www.butterflylabs.com/monarch
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1306489-gov-uscourts-mowd-117531-42-20.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20131016065038/http://www.butterflylabs.com/monarch/
November 16th, 2013
https://web.archive.org/web/20131117094636/http://www.butterflylabs.com/monarch
December 24th, 2013
https://web.archive.org/web/20131224125958/http://www.butterflylabs.com/monarch
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1306489-gov-uscourts-mowd-117531-42-20.html
October 06, 2014, 02:24:50 AM
Your cognitive dissonance is truly amazing.
The Wayback machine - https://web.archive.org/web/20131219192442/http://www.butterflylabs.com/monarch/ - clearly indicates that BFL, through your website, your primary marketing channel, was still advertising the fiction that tapeout had occurred in August 2013, all the way up to the end of 2013. The date of this capture is December 19th.
If you click "Pre-Order Now" on that page, it takes you to December 7th, 2013, which contains more lies about your projected shipping schedule: https://web.archive.org/web/20131207022652/https://products.butterflylabs.com/600-gh-bitcoin-mining-card.html
In that capture, dated December 7th, BFL still claimed - and I quote:
Call me an idiot, but I don't see any way how that can not be construed as misleading, deceptive advertising.
Furthermore, by the evidence of the statements in your own chat log, this deceptive advertising was intended to collect as many pre-orders as you could, to scoop the competition, even though you all knew at the time that your projected timeline was pure wishful thinking.
What truly puzzles me is that you seemed to be the voice of reason in that debate, in stark contrast to your complete rejection of the clear evidence now.
The Wayback machine - https://web.archive.org/web/20131219192442/http://www.butterflylabs.com/monarch/ - clearly indicates that BFL, through your website, your primary marketing channel, was still advertising the fiction that tapeout had occurred in August 2013, all the way up to the end of 2013. The date of this capture is December 19th.
If you click "Pre-Order Now" on that page, it takes you to December 7th, 2013, which contains more lies about your projected shipping schedule: https://web.archive.org/web/20131207022652/https://products.butterflylabs.com/600-gh-bitcoin-mining-card.html
In that capture, dated December 7th, BFL still claimed - and I quote:
Quote
[11/6/2013 11:09:58 AM] Josh Zerlan: Except, we don't even know if we've taped out
yet :p
yet :p
Quote
[11/6/2013 11:19:29 AM] Josh Zerlan: Honestly, if we haven't even taped out at this
point, I dont' see us shipping a product until the very end of January at the
earliest, more like middle of February.
point, I dont' see us shipping a product until the very end of January at the
earliest, more like middle of February.
Quote
[11/12/2013 1:01:19 PM] Josh Zerlan: Instead of giving them false promises for
November when we didn't even tape out until November.
[11/12/2013 1:01:57 PM] Sonny: Clearly when we laid out that timeline, we fully
expected tapeout sooner than November.
[11/12/2013 1:02:11 PM] Sonny: You, me - chronicle tech etc.
[11/12/2013 1:02:14 PM] Josh Zerlan: No, I knew we would not be taping out until
late October at the earliest.
November when we didn't even tape out until November.
[11/12/2013 1:01:57 PM] Sonny: Clearly when we laid out that timeline, we fully
expected tapeout sooner than November.
[11/12/2013 1:02:11 PM] Sonny: You, me - chronicle tech etc.
[11/12/2013 1:02:14 PM] Josh Zerlan: No, I knew we would not be taping out until
late October at the earliest.
Quote
[11/12/2013 1:11:26 PM] Nasser Ghoseiri: We can announce that we've taped out on
Friday
[11/12/2013 1:11:35 PM] Nasser Ghoseiri: and let everyone know how it goes
[11/12/2013 1:11:55 PM] Josh Zerlan: No, I don't thin kwe should mention when we
taped out. We were suppose to tape out in September. Telling them we taped out
last week is suicide.
Friday
[11/12/2013 1:11:35 PM] Nasser Ghoseiri: and let everyone know how it goes
[11/12/2013 1:11:55 PM] Josh Zerlan: No, I don't thin kwe should mention when we
taped out. We were suppose to tape out in September. Telling them we taped out
last week is suicide.
Quote
[11/26/2013 11:15:19 AM] Josh Zerlan: We still haven't even taped out 28nm, though.
We still have 16 and then by the time that's out, we're looking at 12 or 10.
We still have 16 and then by the time that's out, we're looking at 12 or 10.
Call me an idiot, but I don't see any way how that can not be construed as misleading, deceptive advertising.
Furthermore, by the evidence of the statements in your own chat log, this deceptive advertising was intended to collect as many pre-orders as you could, to scoop the competition, even though you all knew at the time that your projected timeline was pure wishful thinking.
What truly puzzles me is that you seemed to be the voice of reason in that debate, in stark contrast to your complete rejection of the clear evidence now.
If you insist: You are an idiot. Happy now?
As I've explained now, how many times? You go count, because it's more than I care to contemplate... not sure why I have to keep explaining the same thing over and over, but anyway... that page was not updated for months. It was true at the time of creation and was not updated or even looked at. It was old advertising material, so why would we go back and revisit it? When you clicked the pre-order now button, you were taken to the actual order page with the updated information. Do you dumb asses really not understand how advertising works? Just because something is not true NOW doesn't mean wasn't true in the PAST. When you create something in the past, if you don't go back and update it, it DOESN'T GET CHANGED. I thought this was a self-evident fact of life, but apparently you mouth breathers can't even grasp this simple concept of the arrow of time and cause and effect.
Absolutely amazing. Talk about cognitive dissonance, wow.
Zerlan talking about cognitive dissonance, I'm mind blown.
You need psychiatric treatment urgently.
October 06, 2014, 01:35:00 AM
Good work Sherlock Holmes. You used shit from a year AFTER the page in question. It's 2014 NOW you idiot. We're talking about 2013. Try to keep up. The sad part is, I know you try your hardest to keep up, but you just can't quite ever figure out what's going on around you. I bet you are amazing to watch in real life, stumbling and bumbling your way through your daily routines.
Hey retard how about you pay your bet? http://www.bitcoindf.org/
October 06, 2014, 12:59:17 AM
So, lets see. Numerous edits were not made, in fact NO edits were made. As no edits were made, there could not have been a chance to of "leaving in place facts that were no longer true." Since the page wasn't edited, there was no "people editing the page knew they were no longer true statements" and by logical deduction, they could not have "chose to leave them in place."
I'm talking about other quotes on the Monarch page that were left in place even when they were no longer true. I showed one example (there are many). Why don't you address that issue instead of avoiding it? Let's start with the claim "BFL is the only 28nm chip manufacturer on its 2nd generation ASIC." Why was that quote left in place during edits even when it was no longer true?
Just admit you were wrong or that you lied to try and make your point and you got caught (again) and we can move on.
Why would I do that? I am not wrong. I showed you that I was not wrong. I showed you that you were wrong (or I am betting you just lied, because that's what you do). So do tell, why would I admit I was wrong when that is simply not the case?
You were updating that website regularly, as the multiple snapshots on the Wayback Machine show. You could have - and indeed were required to - remove the misleading, incorrect information at any time. But instead you chose to maintain the fiction - publicly - that your tapeout occurred in August. As the Skype chat logs show, you were aware of that fact personally and reminded the other principals at BFL of it on a regular basis.
Those are the lies I'm talking about. Those are the lies that caused the FTC to shut you down.
October 06, 2014, 12:50:31 AM
So, lets see. Numerous edits were not made, in fact NO edits were made. As no edits were made, there could not have been a chance to of "leaving in place facts that were no longer true." Since the page wasn't edited, there was no "people editing the page knew they were no longer true statements" and by logical deduction, they could not have "chose to leave them in place."
I'm talking about other quotes on the Monarch page that were left in place even when they were no longer true. I showed one example (there are many). Why don't you address that issue instead of avoiding it? Let's start with the claim "BFL is the only 28nm chip manufacturer on its 2nd generation ASIC." Why was that quote left in place during edits even when it was no longer true?
Just admit you were wrong or that you lied to try and make your point and you got caught (again) and we can move on.
Why would I do that? I am not wrong. I showed you that I was not wrong. I showed you that you were wrong (or I am betting you just lied, because that's what you do). So do tell, why would I admit I was wrong when that is simply not the case?
October 06, 2014, 12:49:54 AM
Just admit you were wrong or that you lied to try and make your point and you got caught (again) and we can move on.
I never mentioned the tape-out issue. Now, on to the "28nm manufacturer" issue. Your answer?
October 06, 2014, 12:49:34 AM
Your cognitive dissonance is truly amazing.
The Wayback machine - https://web.archive.org/web/20131219192442/http://www.butterflylabs.com/monarch/ - clearly indicates that BFL, through your website, your primary marketing channel, was still advertising the fiction that tapeout had occurred in August 2013, all the way up to the end of 2013. The date of this capture is December 19th.
If you click "Pre-Order Now" on that page, it takes you to December 7th, 2013, which contains more lies about your projected shipping schedule: https://web.archive.org/web/20131207022652/https://products.butterflylabs.com/600-gh-bitcoin-mining-card.html
In that capture, dated December 7th, BFL still claimed - and I quote:
Call me an idiot, but I don't see any way how that can not be construed as misleading, deceptive advertising.
Furthermore, by the evidence of the statements in your own chat log, this deceptive advertising was intended to collect as many pre-orders as you could, to scoop the competition, even though you all knew at the time that your projected timeline was pure wishful thinking.
What truly puzzles me is that you seemed to be the voice of reason in that debate, in stark contrast to your complete rejection of the clear evidence now.
The Wayback machine - https://web.archive.org/web/20131219192442/http://www.butterflylabs.com/monarch/ - clearly indicates that BFL, through your website, your primary marketing channel, was still advertising the fiction that tapeout had occurred in August 2013, all the way up to the end of 2013. The date of this capture is December 19th.
If you click "Pre-Order Now" on that page, it takes you to December 7th, 2013, which contains more lies about your projected shipping schedule: https://web.archive.org/web/20131207022652/https://products.butterflylabs.com/600-gh-bitcoin-mining-card.html
In that capture, dated December 7th, BFL still claimed - and I quote:
Quote
[11/6/2013 11:09:58 AM] Josh Zerlan: Except, we don't even know if we've taped out
yet :p
yet :p
Quote
[11/6/2013 11:19:29 AM] Josh Zerlan: Honestly, if we haven't even taped out at this
point, I dont' see us shipping a product until the very end of January at the
earliest, more like middle of February.
point, I dont' see us shipping a product until the very end of January at the
earliest, more like middle of February.
Quote
[11/12/2013 1:01:19 PM] Josh Zerlan: Instead of giving them false promises for
November when we didn't even tape out until November.
[11/12/2013 1:01:57 PM] Sonny: Clearly when we laid out that timeline, we fully
expected tapeout sooner than November.
[11/12/2013 1:02:11 PM] Sonny: You, me - chronicle tech etc.
[11/12/2013 1:02:14 PM] Josh Zerlan: No, I knew we would not be taping out until
late October at the earliest.
November when we didn't even tape out until November.
[11/12/2013 1:01:57 PM] Sonny: Clearly when we laid out that timeline, we fully
expected tapeout sooner than November.
[11/12/2013 1:02:11 PM] Sonny: You, me - chronicle tech etc.
[11/12/2013 1:02:14 PM] Josh Zerlan: No, I knew we would not be taping out until
late October at the earliest.
Quote
[11/12/2013 1:11:26 PM] Nasser Ghoseiri: We can announce that we've taped out on
Friday
[11/12/2013 1:11:35 PM] Nasser Ghoseiri: and let everyone know how it goes
[11/12/2013 1:11:55 PM] Josh Zerlan: No, I don't thin kwe should mention when we
taped out. We were suppose to tape out in September. Telling them we taped out
last week is suicide.
Friday
[11/12/2013 1:11:35 PM] Nasser Ghoseiri: and let everyone know how it goes
[11/12/2013 1:11:55 PM] Josh Zerlan: No, I don't thin kwe should mention when we
taped out. We were suppose to tape out in September. Telling them we taped out
last week is suicide.
Quote
[11/26/2013 11:15:19 AM] Josh Zerlan: We still haven't even taped out 28nm, though.
We still have 16 and then by the time that's out, we're looking at 12 or 10.
We still have 16 and then by the time that's out, we're looking at 12 or 10.
Call me an idiot, but I don't see any way how that can not be construed as misleading, deceptive advertising.
Furthermore, by the evidence of the statements in your own chat log, this deceptive advertising was intended to collect as many pre-orders as you could, to scoop the competition, even though you all knew at the time that your projected timeline was pure wishful thinking.
What truly puzzles me is that you seemed to be the voice of reason in that debate, in stark contrast to your complete rejection of the clear evidence now.
If you insist: You are an idiot. Happy now?
As I've explained now, how many times? You go count, because it's more than I care to contemplate... not sure why I have to keep explaining the same thing over and over, but anyway... that page was not updated for months. It was true at the time of creation and was not updated or even looked at. It was old advertising material, so why would we go back and revisit it? When you clicked the pre-order now button, you were taken to the actual order page with the updated information. Do you dumb asses really not understand how advertising works? Just because something is not true NOW doesn't mean wasn't true in the PAST. When you create something in the past, if you don't go back and update it, it DOESN'T GET CHANGED. I thought this was a self-evident fact of life, but apparently you mouth breathers can't even grasp this simple concept of the arrow of time and cause and effect.
Absolutely amazing. Talk about cognitive dissonance, wow.
October 06, 2014, 12:46:58 AM
So, lets see. Numerous edits were not made, in fact NO edits were made. As no edits were made, there could not have been a chance to of "leaving in place facts that were no longer true." Since the page wasn't edited, there was no "people editing the page knew they were no longer true statements" and by logical deduction, they could not have "chose to leave them in place."
I'm talking about other quotes on the Monarch page that were left in place even when they were no longer true. I showed one example (there are many). Why don't you address that issue instead of avoiding it? Let's start with the claim "BFL is the only 28nm chip manufacturer on its 2nd generation ASIC." Why was that quote left in place during edits even when it was no longer true?
Just admit you were wrong or that you lied to try and make your point and you got caught (again) and we can move on.
Jump to: