Topic: [Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide [1st Feb 2016] - page 30. (Read 131506 times)

I'm talking about other quotes on the Monarch page that were left in place even when they were no longer true. I showed one example (there are many). Why don't you address that issue instead of avoiding it? Let's start with the claim "BFL is the only 28nm chip manufacturer on its 2nd generation ASIC." Why was that quote left in place during edits even when it was no longer true?

So, lets see.  Numerous edits were not made, in fact NO edits were made.  As no edits were made, there could not have been a chance to of "leaving in place facts that were no longer true."  Since the page wasn't edited, there was no "people editing the page knew they were no longer true statements" and by logical deduction, they could not have "chose to leave them in place."

LOL, you are so insane. You latch on to some little detail and fail to see the whole picture. We're talking about 2013 and 2014. It's not just about a "tapeout" reference. It's about lots more than that. How BFL leaves invalid information in place as a marketing tool. Big Fat Lies is the cornerstone to your business plan. It always has been. And as long as crooked people like you, Sonny, Nasser, etc are in charge, it'll stay that way.

If you check the Wayback Machine 6 weeks later, they were still claiming that August 2013 tapeout:
https://web.archive.org/web/20131219192442/http://www.butterflylabs.com/monarch/

So the shipping dates were not changed at all any time close to that conversation.

Or am I missing something?

It was true at the time the advertisement was made,  which was the point of the accusations made which I was responding to. Don't try to play semantic games to make your false statements appear to be true (oddly enough Dogie appears to be the rational one in this case... Mind blown).

Dick Trickle there was asking about false advertising and I was responding. We did absolutely believe we would tape out in August when that ad copy was created.

Numerous edits were made to the page over many months, every time leaving in place "facts" that were no longer true. Since the people editing the page knew they were no longer true statements, and they chose to leave them in place, they became BFL (Big Fat Lies).

Good work Sherlock Holmes. You used shit from a year AFTER the page in question.  It's 2014 NOW you idiot. We're talking about 2013.

Good work Sherlock Holmes. You used shit from a year AFTER the page in question.  It's 2014 NOW you idiot. We're talking about 2013.  Try to keep up. The sad part is, I know you try your hardest to keep up, but you just can't quite ever figure out what's going on around you.  I bet you are amazing to watch in real life, stumbling and bumbling your way through your daily routines.

As I said, numerous edits were made to that page, while Big Fat Lies were left in place. Here's just one example.

Sep 1, 2014

https://web.archive.org/web/20140901161740/http://www.butterflylabs.com/monarch/


Bitmain released their 2nd 28nm chip in July. Since I don't have the exact dates of the Monarch page updates, I'll just post 2 more that prove edits were made to that page after Bitmain released their 2nd chip.

In Aug the old stats were there: https://web.archive.org/web/20140824162506/http://www.butterflylabs.com/monarch/
In Sep the new stats were there: https://web.archive.org/web/20140901161740/http://www.butterflylabs.com/monarch/

Conclusion. I win. You lose.

Not only have I told you that is a false statement, the Internet Archive would seem to disagree with you as well. That would make you a liar.  You wouldn't be posting false information to make yourself feel better about things, would you?  No...

The first time that page was updated, the August Tapeout verbiage was removed.

Who knew?!  Syke lying?  Not like that has ever happened before*

* For any values where Syke does not post, open his mouth or pantomime.

Not only have I told you that is a false statement, the Internet Archive would seem to agree with you as well. That would make me a liar.  I wouldn't be posting false information to make myself feel better about things, would I?  No...

The first time that page was updated, the August Tapeout verbiage was removed.

Who knew?!  I'm lying?  Not like that has ever happened before*

* For any values where I do not post, open my mouth or pantomime.

Not only have I told you that is a false statement, the Internet Archive would seem to disagree with you as well. That would make you a liar.  You wouldn't be posting false information to make yourself feel better about things, would you?  No...

The first time that page was updated, the August Tapeout verbiage was removed.

The bottom line is that BFL is the only 28nm chip manufacturer on its 2nd generation ASIC.

Numerous edits were made to the page over many months, every time leaving in place "facts" that were no longer true. Since the people editing the page knew they were no longer true statements, and they chose to leave them in place, they became BFL (Big Fat Lies).

It was true at the time the advertisement was made,  which was the point of the accusations made which I was responding to.

Customer: Try expressing the pain in dollars (or worse: btc) and tell me again you suffer as badly as your customers. IF that were true, you'd be filing for bankruptcy.

Customer: Well for starters as the COO of the company you could always abide by the law and refund folks when they ask for it. Keeping their money for an extended period of time means you are acting as a fiduciary and must abide by certian regulations. (I was a broker/trader so trust me on this one) Having your own rules that do not support the law will get you in trouble. (Trust me on this one also) Also, deleting peoples posts in a public forum is attempting to exert a level of control on a populous that always back fires. You just fuel the fire.

In any case You have a hell of mess on your hands. You developed a product that would have been amazing 2-3 months ago. Now it's an overpriced borderline obsolete piece. There are 1, 2 and 3 Th/s machines on the market that are priced cheaper by the Gh/s. You guys are holding on to the efficiency piece which is all you have left imho. I don't think that there is a good solution left for you. Not where you remain solvent anyhow. My advice - Refund to those customer who want it. Today. Deliver to those that are willing to wait, and give them a fair amount of hashing power for their dollars. Not 600Gg/a and a free one or something of the like, but rather what would actually make them some money. You can't offer what they would have gotten if you had delivered in Jan, Feb, Or March, but at least give them a way to make their money and at the same time create some loyal customers out of them. You need a few of those right now.

So it likes this to me: You have a hot mess with your production, plagued by delays, a class action law suit already formed against you, several smaller individual law suits, and an angry mob of customers who want their products delivered which you can't fullfill. More than likely you also have a ton of customers demanding refunds which you do not have the cash flow to fulfill either.

Let's see if I'm right and you delete this post. I'm willing to bet a couple Monarch's that you do. - Oh wait. They don't exist....

Ok, so who is complaining about the compensation?  They are being given a full refund, more hashrate or a combination of the two.  What more do you want?



We stop taking orders and that's not an "effort to change that?"  LOL... what is an effort to change that then, if not that?


Link to cases that don't exist?  What are you talking about?  You do know how class action lawsuits work, right?  A judge needs to grant the class action case and the party bringing the suit has to bring credible evidence that warrants class status.  There's basically nothing so far that would warrant such a status.  But disregarding the speculation, the fact is that it is NOT a class action suit at this time and will NOT be one anytime soon.  That is indisputable fact, not speculation.



You never said two weeks was in regards to shipping?  Then what is it in regards to, pray tell?  As far as being banned from the BFL forums, please provide actual evidence, not your supposition.  Once again, you make claims but you can't actually back them up with evidence.  You provide the evidence and I will explain to you exactly why that person was banned, with evidence to back up my claim.  See, that's the difference between you and me.  I back up my claims with evidence, you have yet failed to do so.

As far as "paying people to discredit you."  What a pompous, self important ass you are.  It was about showing what a joke the trust rating system is, not about you.  I don't care one whit about you. You were just a convenient demonstration piece, being as you are active in spreading false information on the forums, so a logical choice for the demonstration.  The fact that you are upset about it proves my point, so thanks for confirming that the trust system is a broken joke.  How is that discrediting you, if the trust system works?  If the trust system doesn't work, how are you discredited?  It's not about you and never has been.  Deflate your ego a little bit, man.


Are you serious?  I have presented you with facts based off your guide and you claim I haven't pointed out any facts?  Let me quote my post again.


Dogie... those are facts. We've delivered over 50k miners (actually over 60k now).  It's gone from "delivered miners" to "delivered miners recently" now that I've provided the facts that you are wrong.
Uses preorders?  Fact: BFL does not take preorders and hasn't for almost 6 months.
Refund issues: Fact: BFL provides full refunds
Communication: Fact: BFL communicates regularly
Ethics: Fact: You have made a special category just for BFL, making you opinionated and biased.

Those are called facts.  You have presented nothing to the contrary so far except speculation and false information, which are called "not facts."  

I don't have access to anything more than anyone else as far as that goes.

That is the complete chat logs. I had nothing to do with the release of that information, that was all the FTC and they released everything as far as I can tell.

That's the problem with the cut and chopped version of the chat logs, people are going to move time around to fit their version of the story. You should post the full chat log as its going to come out / be requested anyway.