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Topic: [Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide [1st Feb 2016] - page 36. (Read 131506 times)

sr. member
Activity: 450
Merit: 250
Quote
Ethics?
All companies start with 10 points, and lose points for various infractions. The key is as follows:   
   F     = Operates own mining farm = -2
   FF   = Operates own large mining farm = -4
   P     = Evidence of premining on preordered equipment = -2
   BFL = BFL'ing = -9
   B    = Bankrupt = -9
   O    = Other   generic unethical behaviour = -5
Alright, just to chime in a little again, having BFL here isn't useful.

Look at it from the perspective of someone who really hasn't been paying attention to BFL issues for the last few years... sure they probably heard a lot of back-handed BFL-hate comments here and there, but don't really know what it is about.

This won't help. List out specific ethics-related criteria in that list and apply them. People can look at that list and understand what the other metrics are, but "BFL'ing" isn't specific or clear at all... it is just more bashing.

C'mon, be above this kind of petty BS, please.

=squeak=

legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1185
dogiecoin.com
@dogie have you ever heard of the ASIC company Hashra?  They are supposedly based in the UK and offering almost too good to be true ASIC prices and are taking what look like pre-orders.  Thoughts?  can you add them to your guide.

Preorder firms don't get traffic by being added to the list, and yes likely its too good to be true. Or maybe not, but either ways there's not much reason to preorder when the market is offering so much in hand hardware.

I'm not suggesting you should link to them, but if they aren't trust worthy (and I don't think they are) it would be good to be able to point people to a definitive source of that kind of information.

I have no evidence for or against, but this list is only for shipping companies. VMC are on it because they were from an era where preorders were an accepted norm and so took millions in advance, and as far as we know tried but failed to deliver.
sr. member
Activity: 479
Merit: 250
@dogie have you ever heard of the ASIC company Hashra?  They are supposedly based in the UK and offering almost too good to be true ASIC prices and are taking what look like pre-orders.  Thoughts?  can you add them to your guide.

Preorder firms don't get traffic by being added to the list, and yes likely its too good to be true. Or maybe not, but either ways there's not much reason to preorder when the market is offering so much in hand hardware.

I'm not suggesting you should link to them, but if they aren't trust worthy (and I don't think they are) it would be good to be able to point people to a definitive source of that kind of information.
donator
Activity: 714
Merit: 510
Preaching the gospel of Satoshi

Prior to showing up today, Josh penned the above and ONLY two other posts.

QUESTION: What went through his mind since penning the above and showing up here today to stir the pot, even going as far as declaring that dogie's thread is somehow effecting his livelihood, his livelihood, that is, increased several fold thanks in large part to this forum populated with monumental assholes?

It can't be both ways: dogie is fucking BFL's sales; BLF is not effected by what takes place here due to nobody giving a lab-rat's ass what takes place on this forum.



Affected. And just in case, then =/= than.
It is funny that only Americans make these mistakes.
Besides that, I agree with everything.

Inaba is not only a scammer but a fucking deluded one.
I would bet that he must be taking some prescribed pills.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1185
dogiecoin.com
@dogie have you ever heard of the ASIC company Hashra?  They are supposedly based in the UK and offering almost too good to be true ASIC prices and are taking what look like pre-orders.  Thoughts?  can you add them to your guide.

Preorder firms don't get traffic by being added to the list, and yes likely its too good to be true. Or maybe not, but either ways there's not much reason to preorder when the market is offering so much in hand hardware.
vip
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1145
Josh/Inaba is gagged by their attorneys

He hasn't posted anything since April yet has logged on less than a week ago.

They probably don't want the hole to get any deeper when they can't control the conversation.



That little pussy is going to sing like a fucking canary when the shit actually hits the fan.  Sonny fucked up by hiring the retard and paid the price while Josh helped dig that big fat hole.  Now Sonny has to keep the useless sack of shit around for fear he will sing like the bitch he is if he's let go.  Either way at some point bitch boy will not be able to keep the big boy pants on and is going to sell old Sonny down the fucking river.  Going to be loads of fun, shits just warming up, be prepared to be shocked and amazed, I predict we aint seen nothing yet!!  

The only pussy here is you, as in you are whining like a cat in heat.  Whine some more for me, I like to read between the lines on how pathetic your life is.

Gagged by lawyers?  Way to spread more lies, Joe!  How many lies can you tell in one day?  Lets find out... go!  You wonder why I don't bother coming by here very often... heh.  This place is the laughingstock of the hardware community.  Nobody gives two shits about this place anymore and it's all thanks to people like you making the incredible shithole that it is.

Good luck and please carry on and see how much I give a shit about the trolls here! Smiley



Prior to showing up today, Josh penned the above and ONLY two other posts.

QUESTION: What went through his mind since penning the above and showing up here today to stir the pot, even going as far as declaring that dogie's thread is somehow effecting his livelihood, his livelihood, that is, increased several fold thanks in large part to this forum populated with monumental assholes?

It can't be both ways: dogie is fucking BFL's sales; BLF is not effected by what takes place here due to nobody giving a lab-rat's ass what takes place on this forum.

donator
Activity: 714
Merit: 510
Preaching the gospel of Satoshi
BFL is a very interesting case study.
sr. member
Activity: 479
Merit: 250
@dogie have you ever heard of the ASIC company Hashra?  They are supposedly based in the UK and offering almost too good to be true ASIC prices and are taking what look like pre-orders.  Thoughts?  can you add them to your guide.
sr. member
Activity: 349
Merit: 250
@Inaba

You do realize that none of what you're posting here is helping your company (or cause) right? Instead of trying to improve the public image of BFL, you're only strengthening (in my case) the negative view I already have of you and BFL. You're asking Dogie for proof, but you're not providing any yourself that things are better/different now.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1185
dogiecoin.com
vip
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1145
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
Quote
Watch, the name of that score level changed. Oh look, nothing else changed! Ah yes, because its an effect and not a cause. Its just a descriptor nothing to do with setting the actual rating as I've explained.

You're saying I gained traffic by artificially setting BFL low in order to placate 'BFL trolls' and prevent them flooding the thread. But if I set BFL higher, then the guide would have been flooded with posts about how BFL was too high, creating more traffic. You just blew my mind. ......... Anyway, lets pretend for a second that your logic wasn't totally fucked, lets look at the traffic numbers. Lets pretend for a second that by some witchcraft your voodoo logic means my traffic increased by 5%. This guide's views make up less than 5% of my views on the forums. So I gained 0.25% readership or 1,487 views over 7 months, hurrah!

So what if it's just a descriptor?  It proves, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that you are biased.  If you were unbiased, you would not use a descriptor that is a company name to indicate the worst possible condition. That is the very definition of biased.

Yes, I am saying you gained traffic by artifically setting BFL low in order to placate the trolls.  That is exactly right.  I am glad you admit that if you set BFL higher, if you based your guide on facts and were honest, you'd be flooded by how BFL is too high.  It wouldn't generate more traffic, it would send you to the dustbin and you know it.  If you were not seen as jumping on the BFL hate train and actually using facts and evidence to support your conclusions, you'd be a pariah and nobody would use your guide, because all the trolls would say what an idiot Dogie is and what a worthless shill you are.  I'm not saying your hate train fueled guide increased your traffic, I'm saying it prevented you from losing traffic and allowed you to gain marketshare directly at BFLs expense. This is indisputable and you even admit so much in this post.  I seriously doubt anyone here would disagree with the fact that if BFL were rated higher, you'd have the trolls yowling at you about how you're a shill and your guide is worthless.  Do you deny this?

Anyone, and I mean anyone who says anything positive about BFL on these forums is instantly labeled a shill.  Go on, tell me that is false.

1) Beneficial to BFL?  Hardly. How is it beneficial to BFL?
2) Tarnish your trust rating so people would be unwilling to listen to you?  Absolutely, what is more appropriate than using the trust system to show you are untrustworthy and continually lie to your reader base?
3) I wasn't aware you were doing a business.  You said yourself you didn't earn anything off of the guide, so what business would it affect? Or did you just slip up and commit yet another lie?
4) You said you wern't earning any income, so how could this be? Uh oh... yet another contradiction.
5) Not at all, are you just making stuff up now?  I had no doubt you would continue to publish your false, biased information under the guise of "unbiased, factual information," I just wanted to make sure people knew that you were doing so.

legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1185
dogiecoin.com
No I did not. Josh expressed concerns about his livelihood, and I turned it around using his recently purchased home via bitcoins, assuming your livelihood is not as good as his.

All four of CoinWares sister companies have tens of millions of Monarchs on order, none of which worried one iota about this thread, ergo Josh's livelihood is not in danger of being disrupted.

legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1185
dogiecoin.com
Why would it, how could it possibly by so? Are you suggesting I somehow gain traffic by artificially lowering BFL's rating in this thread? Are you suggesting that for the 8 months this resource had no ads in, that increased niche of 'BFL circlejerk troll' traffic somehow made me money?

I cut out the rest of our diatribe because it's pointless to argue with you.  You won't admit, even though everyone else here agrees, that your guide is biased, if for no other reason than you made a category... I mean a "tier" named BFL. There's nothing biased about that, oh no.

That said, you absolutely, positively did gain traction on your guide by bashing BFL.  If you had been honest and impartial in your guide, BFL would be rated higher and you'd have all the trolls bitching and moaning and whining and making you out to be the devil and your guide would have gone exactly nowhere. You banked on the hate train and gained your dubious reputation directly off the back of BFL. So yes, absolutely you gained traffic by artifically lowering BFLs rating.  That is painfully obvious.  It's not about making money (or lack thereof) it's about gaining traffic and mindshare.  You know this, you're just being hyperbolic... again.

Watch, the name of that score level changed. Oh look, nothing else changed! Ah yes, because its an effect and not a cause. Its just a descriptor nothing to do with setting the actual rating as I've explained.

You're saying I gained traffic by artificially setting BFL low in order to placate 'BFL trolls' and prevent them flooding the thread. But if I set BFL higher, then the guide would have been flooded with posts about how BFL was too high, creating more traffic. You just blew my mind. ......... Anyway, lets pretend for a second that your logic wasn't totally fucked, lets look at the traffic numbers. Lets pretend for a second that by some witchcraft your voodoo logic means my traffic increased by 5%. This guide's views make up less than 5% of my views on the forums. So I gained 0.25% readership or 1,487 views over 7 months, hurrah!

Quote
The trust system works as long as companies don't pay people to discredit those they see as opponents as you did. You're essentially saying 'you did it to me so I did it to you', right?

If someone can pay others to game the system, then the system DOESN'T WORK.  Dude, are you this oblivious to your contradictions in real life or do you just not read what you write after you write it?  I can only imagine what actually talking to you face to face is like, it must be an absolutely mindblowing experience.

Saying the system is flawed doesn't work when it requires breaking the law to induce 'breaking' it. Its only because you work for a huge company that you know no one can do anything about it. At least give me the decency of confirming the real motive behind the competition...

1) You chose me as a target of the competition/experiment because it was beneficial to BFL to have me discredited/because you believed I was spreading false information about BFL.
2) You hoped/believed that users would tarnish my trust rating such that others would be less willing to listen to me.
3) You hoped/believed it would damage my reputation/discredit me from doing business in the future.
4) You hoped/believed it would damage my income.
5) You hoped/believed that I would stop producing content and your business would increase.

That's right isn't it Josh?
vip
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1145
Yes, because the "energy" was so tremendous.  It took all of about 20 minutes.  Nice strawman.

As for your negative ratings, do you agree that the trust system is broken?  Then if so, your rating doesn't matter.
If you do not agree, then the rating system is working as intended and your rating is just.

In either case, it doesn't matter.  But to answer your flawed conclusion... let me ask you this.  How many people have seen your biased guide containing all manner of false information?  More than 327 I would imagine. So I use you as an example to show a flawed system and you in turn post false information and mislead many more people with your guide.  You probably shouldn't talk about ethics.

You targeted me because I was maintaining an impartial resource which stated clearly that it was my personal interpretation and to be supplemented by a buyer's own research. That's what the -9 BFL category was for, quite simply because I didn't want to make a bigger deal out of your smear campaign or draw more attention to it should you be the target of any retaliation.

You would have picked up OOF or OFL anyway and still be on 1 point regardless so it made no difference to your rating. In fact, I think you're equivalent rating has gone up quite considerably since you started your smear campaign - even ignoring the fact that you just went up more than any other company in the last adjustment.

Of course it matters, I earn my livelihood from relationships I develop - both current and new - from these forums. You saw a quick and dirty opportunity that might benefit yourself at my expense and you went for it even though you knew it would almost certainly damage my ability to do business.

You were not and are not maintaining an impartial resource.  I think everyone here agrees with that, but you. But you keep promoting it as such, thereby misleading anyone and everyone who has read it.  Do you even know what "impartial" means?  You can't have an impartial resource that is your "personal interpretation" those things are mutually exclusive.  Impartial means you base it only on facts, not your interpretation.   To further the farce, you even created an entire CATEGORY named BFL.  How on earth do you possibly maintain that it is impartial?  Do you even hear yourself?

Now, you made the claim that you "can't just rate someone a 1 because you don't like them" to someone else, and I pointed out that you are doing just that, among many other dishonest acts.  I've given you fact based examples of why your guide is flawed and you've responded with more "personal interpretation" devoid of any supporting documentation or evidence.  I also pointed out your inconsistent criteria that you establish and then throw away IN THE SAME POST, and yet you maintain that your guide is impartial?!  Are you serious?

Then if it matters, why don't you lobby Theymos to fix it?  If it works as intended, then the trust system should not so easily be gamed.  If it does not work as intended, it needs to be fixed.  Your livelyhood?  What about mine?  You saw a quick and dirty opportunity to jump on the BFL hate bandwagon to boost your guide to the trolls and you took it.  Now you're complaining about it happening to you?  Please.  Cry me a river.  Don't be so hypocritical.



Hey, dogie, when are you going to invite me over to your half million dollar home fully paid for with bitcoins from your personal account for dinner to discuss over eats how Josh sold EMC to BFL, but lead ALL its customers that he, alone, was the sole proprietor until it was realized he hadn't been since at least Q4, 2012, thanks to a press release depicting Sonny's probation, et al., via court documents?

[I'm confused, have you crossed names in this post?]

No I did not. Josh expressed concerns about his livelihood, and I turned it around using his recently purchased home via bitcoins, assuming your livelihood is not as good as his.

All four of CoinWares sister companies have tens of millions of Monarchs on order, none of which worried one iota about this thread, ergo Josh's livelihood is not in danger of being disrupted.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1185
dogiecoin.com
Yes, because the "energy" was so tremendous.  It took all of about 20 minutes.  Nice strawman.

As for your negative ratings, do you agree that the trust system is broken?  Then if so, your rating doesn't matter.
If you do not agree, then the rating system is working as intended and your rating is just.

In either case, it doesn't matter.  But to answer your flawed conclusion... let me ask you this.  How many people have seen your biased guide containing all manner of false information?  More than 327 I would imagine. So I use you as an example to show a flawed system and you in turn post false information and mislead many more people with your guide.  You probably shouldn't talk about ethics.

You targeted me because I was maintaining an impartial resource which stated clearly that it was my personal interpretation and to be supplemented by a buyer's own research. That's what the -9 BFL category was for, quite simply because I didn't want to make a bigger deal out of your smear campaign or draw more attention to it should you be the target of any retaliation.

You would have picked up OOF or OFL anyway and still be on 1 point regardless so it made no difference to your rating. In fact, I think you're equivalent rating has gone up quite considerably since you started your smear campaign - even ignoring the fact that you just went up more than any other company in the last adjustment.

Of course it matters, I earn my livelihood from relationships I develop - both current and new - from these forums. You saw a quick and dirty opportunity that might benefit yourself at my expense and you went for it even though you knew it would almost certainly damage my ability to do business.

You were not and are not maintaining an impartial resource.  I think everyone here agrees with that, but you. But you keep promoting it as such, thereby misleading anyone and everyone who has read it.  Do you even know what "impartial" means?  You can't have an impartial resource that is your "personal interpretation" those things are mutually exclusive.  Impartial means you base it only on facts, not your interpretation.   To further the farce, you even created an entire CATEGORY named BFL.  How on earth do you possibly maintain that it is impartial?  Do you even hear yourself?

Now, you made the claim that you "can't just rate someone a 1 because you don't like them" to someone else, and I pointed out that you are doing just that, among many other dishonest acts.  I've given you fact based examples of why your guide is flawed and you've responded with more "personal interpretation" devoid of any supporting documentation or evidence.  I also pointed out your inconsistent criteria that you establish and then throw away IN THE SAME POST, and yet you maintain that your guide is impartial?!  Are you serious?

Then if it matters, why don't you lobby Theymos to fix it?  If it works as intended, then the trust system should not so easily be gamed.  If it does not work as intended, it needs to be fixed.  Your livelyhood?  What about mine?  You saw a quick and dirty opportunity to jump on the BFL hate bandwagon to boost your guide to the trolls and you took it.  Now you're complaining about it happening to you?  Please.  Cry me a river.  Don't be so hypocritical.



Hey, dogie, when are you going to invite me over to your half million dollar home fully paid for with bitcoins from your personal account for dinner to discuss over eats how Josh sold EMC to BFL, but lead ALL its customers that he, alone, was the sole proprietor until it was realized he hadn't been since at least Q4, 2012, thanks to a press release depicting Sonny's probation, et al., via court documents?

[I'm confused, have you crossed names in this post?]
vip
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1145
Yes, because the "energy" was so tremendous.  It took all of about 20 minutes.  Nice strawman.

As for your negative ratings, do you agree that the trust system is broken?  Then if so, your rating doesn't matter.
If you do not agree, then the rating system is working as intended and your rating is just.

In either case, it doesn't matter.  But to answer your flawed conclusion... let me ask you this.  How many people have seen your biased guide containing all manner of false information?  More than 327 I would imagine. So I use you as an example to show a flawed system and you in turn post false information and mislead many more people with your guide.  You probably shouldn't talk about ethics.

You targeted me because I was maintaining an impartial resource which stated clearly that it was my personal interpretation and to be supplemented by a buyer's own research. That's what the -9 BFL category was for, quite simply because I didn't want to make a bigger deal out of your smear campaign or draw more attention to it should you be the target of any retaliation.

You would have picked up OOF or OFL anyway and still be on 1 point regardless so it made no difference to your rating. In fact, I think you're equivalent rating has gone up quite considerably since you started your smear campaign - even ignoring the fact that you just went up more than any other company in the last adjustment.

Of course it matters, I earn my livelihood from relationships I develop - both current and new - from these forums. You saw a quick and dirty opportunity that might benefit yourself at my expense and you went for it even though you knew it would almost certainly damage my ability to do business.

You were not and are not maintaining an impartial resource.  I think everyone here agrees with that, but you. But you keep promoting it as such, thereby misleading anyone and everyone who has read it.  Do you even know what "impartial" means?  You can't have an impartial resource that is your "personal interpretation" those things are mutually exclusive.  Impartial means you base it only on facts, not your interpretation.   To further the farce, you even created an entire CATEGORY named BFL.  How on earth do you possibly maintain that it is impartial?  Do you even hear yourself?

Now, you made the claim that you "can't just rate someone a 1 because you don't like them" to someone else, and I pointed out that you are doing just that, among many other dishonest acts.  I've given you fact based examples of why your guide is flawed and you've responded with more "personal interpretation" devoid of any supporting documentation or evidence.  I also pointed out your inconsistent criteria that you establish and then throw away IN THE SAME POST, and yet you maintain that your guide is impartial?!  Are you serious?

Then if it matters, why don't you lobby Theymos to fix it?  If it works as intended, then the trust system should not so easily be gamed.  If it does not work as intended, it needs to be fixed.  Your livelyhood?  What about mine?  You saw a quick and dirty opportunity to jump on the BFL hate bandwagon to boost your guide to the trolls and you took it.  Now you're complaining about it happening to you?  Please.  Cry me a river.  Don't be so hypocritical.



Hey, dogie, when are you going to invite me over to your half million dollar home fully paid for with bitcoins from your personal account for dinner to discuss over eats how Josh sold EMC to BFL, but lead ALL its customers that he, alone, was the sole proprietor until it was realized he hadn't been since at least Q4, 2012, thanks to a press release depicting Sonny's probation, et al., via court documents?
vip
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1145
Why should I not pick someone who is actively and prominently spreading false information?  The point is that anyone, no matter how highly or lowly regarded can game the system with ease.  Picking an abandoned account that can't defend itself would not prove the point.  Picking an account, in this case yours, that would vigorously defend itself and still end up with a shitcan rating illustrates how broken the system is.

So as COO of BFL, you preferred to incentivise your forum members to discredit me rather than spend that energy to improve your company and so improve your rating... I have 327 negative ratings thanks to you, does that make your happy?

Yes, because the "energy" was so tremendous.  It took all of about 20 minutes.  Nice strawman.

As for your negative ratings, do you agree that the trust system is broken?  Then if so, your rating doesn't matter.
If you do not agree, then the rating system is working as intended and your rating is just.

In either case, it doesn't matter.  But to answer your flawed conclusion... let me ask you this.  How many people have seen your biased guide containing all manner of false information?  More than 327 I would imagine. So I use you as an example to show a flawed system and you in turn post false information and mislead many more people with your guide.  You probably shouldn't talk about ethics.


Ergo, the rating system shouldn't matter one iota since BFL will no longer be accepting pre-orders and their entity is "on a good track now, trying to put the past behind."
vip
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1145
You're the one that is complaining. You want a higher score in that category than you're entitled to at this point, or any other company gets. Ship more, be patient, receive a higher score for this generation.

I'm pointing out your hypocricy and duplicity.  If you call that complaining, so be it.  I don't really care what you rate BFL on the guide, but please don't mislead newbies and everyone one else by stating that your guide is unbiased and true.  There's nothing unbiased or true about it.  It's all how you feel about the subject and damn the facts.  You complain that BFL misleads people and here you are doing it.  Practice what you preach.

Quote
There was 290,000 members on the forums at the time. You chose Theymos as one. Why was I chosen as one of the other two? Why was it 'convenient' that I was chosen to be bombarded with negative trust out of all those possibilities? You could have chosen abandoned accounts, your own accounts or accounts you'd made purposely for the 'experiment' as you called it. Instead, you chose me. Why?

Why should I not pick someone who is actively and prominently spreading false information?  The point is that anyone, no matter how highly or lowly regarded can game the system with ease.  Picking an abandoned account that can't defend itself would not prove the point.  Picking an account, in this case yours, that would vigorously defend itself and still end up with a shitcan rating illustrates how broken the system is.  Or how unbroken it is, perhaps.  At least according to Theymos.  I am sure you, Bickfailski and I disagree, though.



In bold can easily be contributed to all bitcoin miner manufactures, all of which are gaming the system to their advantage to one extreme or another. Unless, that is, BFL is above that, and there's not one iota nefarious activity stemming from their camp. Ironically, this thread directly and indirectly dictates otherwise.

Is it safe to assume that a next gen BFL product is about to introduced for pre-orders, hence your recent presence to grace us monumental assholes?
hero member
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