Hardware wallets? | Bitcointalksearch.org

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Quote from: bL4nkcode on November 27, 2017, 12:08:48 PM

Quote from: liuqi on November 27, 2017, 10:21:34 AM

--snip--
You guys noticed the thread or not. This is been last posted around 4 months back but I don't why you people are digging these kind of dead thread. I am really sure you guys know that these kind of dead threads are good to dig or not.

Well, you can't blame those newbies for being stupid since you've been there too.
I wonder why you posted in this thread too knowing that this thread was not active anymore and instead, reporting those previous post will be much better.
Anyway, this post and those previous posts above me will be removed sooner or later.

Why it should be removed? Yes, newbie bumped old thread, but information about hardware wallets which we can find here can be useful. It's not the same thing like to bump old spam megathread

Not long time ago I was really searching for comparison of hardware wallets. And now I'm waiting for me Ledger wallet to be delivered.

Rahar02

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Quote from: bL4nkcode on November 27, 2017, 12:08:48 PM

Quote from: liuqi on November 27, 2017, 10:21:34 AM

--snip--
You guys noticed the thread or not. This is been last posted around 4 months back but I don't why you people are digging these kind of dead thread. I am really sure you guys know that these kind of dead threads are good to dig or not.

Well, you can't blame those newbies for being stupid since you've been there too.
I wonder why you posted in this thread too knowing that this thread was not active anymore and instead, reporting those previous post will be much better.
Anyway, this post and those previous posts above me will be removed sooner or later.

Actually, this discussion here is pretty interesting, digging and learning more about the comparison of trezor and ledger nano S, mostly.
I've read about hardware wallet and how this cold storage is the best way to store your bitcoin, without knowing how it works, how to set it up. After reading more about it, we can get some conclusions and seems like ledger nano S as the most convenient way to do this. But, for those who don't have enough money to spare, in order to buy a ledger nano s, they can make it through paper wallet, it's secure and a good way for long term savings.

truthstalker

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I'm a big fan of Trezor and have owned one for the last few years and would recommend using them if you are want to use a hot wallet whilst being 100% sure that it's safe from any malicious activity on your computer.

bL4nkcode

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Limited in number. Limitless in potential.

Quote from: liuqi on November 27, 2017, 10:21:34 AM

--snip--
You guys noticed the thread or not. This is been last posted around 4 months back but I don't why you people are digging these kind of dead thread. I am really sure you guys know that these kind of dead threads are good to dig or not.

Well, you can't blame those newbies for being stupid since you've been there too.
I wonder why you posted in this thread too knowing that this thread was not active anymore and instead, reporting those previous post will be much better.
Anyway, this post and those previous posts above me will be removed sooner or later.

liuqi

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Quote from: cdousley on November 27, 2017, 12:41:30 AM

Managing them with ease is not possible. It's like blank chequebook signed by you and if you loose it then you lost your saved money too. It's so easy to cash them out if you have the barcode. With little efforts the money can be cracked from the wallet. I'm assuming it needs more upgrades regarding the time of use and security as well.

In view of the security hazards that are available on the web, equipment wallets are most recommended approach to guard you bitcoins. Online wallets have low honesty and are more open to hacks than disconnected equipment wallets. The arrangement of these wallets were created to have one of a kind keys to distinguish your bitcoin. On the off chance that you can bear the cost of one you should get one. Be that as it may, typically these wallets are utilized to ensure you investment funds. You keep your sparing bitcoin in equipment wallet and you're spending bitcoin on online wallet, thusly of sorting out your bitcoins can help you a great deal.
[/quote]

Quote from: Nfp on November 27, 2017, 08:54:47 AM

You guys noticed the thread or not. This is been last posted around 4 months back but I don't why you people are digging these kind of dead thread. I am really sure you guys know that these kind of dead threads are good to dig or not.
I am explaining in many places but you newbies are continuously doing this digging work always.
Kindly avoid more posts unwantely in this thread.

Nfp

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Quote from: Skrodk on June 23, 2017, 08:50:56 AM

As the name suggests, are they worth it? Looking for security obviously.

I have looked at Trezor, Ledger and Keepkey

Not sure what is preferred, and is it correct that the wallets themselves doesn't actually store your coins? are they better than a simply paper wallet?

Thanks in advance.

Yes hardware wallet is more safer rather than a simple paper wallet. All the names that are suggested to you are all trustworthy for your bitcoin. But it's more expensive than the others.

cdousley

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One Token to Move Anything Anywhere

Quote from: frowsiter on July 07, 2017, 12:35:54 PM

Quote from: pixie85 on June 24, 2017, 05:21:06 PM

Quote from: gentlemand on June 23, 2017, 11:19:00 AM

If done right a paper wallet is zero risk, but many people won't do it right.

The main difference will be usability. You can't send from a paper wallet, only receive. With a hardware wallet it's just as practical as any other one when it comes to spending.

At the moment it seems your main problem will be actually getting hold of any of the major hardware wallets. Unless you pay through the nose on Ebay or Amazon you might be in for a long wait before they restock.

Using a paper wallet is difficult and time consuming. Losing that piece of paper means losing your money, and losing a trezor means only that you'll have to go home and open your main wallet to send and receive anything. And that you just lost a lot of money because hardware wallets are much more expensive than pieces of paper Cheesy

Managing them with ease is not possible. It's like blank chequebook signed by you and if you loose it then you lost your saved money too. It's so easy to cash them out if you have the barcode. With little efforts the money can be cracked from the wallet. I'm assuming it needs more upgrades regarding the time of use and security as well.

In view of the security hazards that are available on the web, equipment wallets are most recommended approach to guard you bitcoins. Online wallets have low honesty and are more open to hacks than disconnected equipment wallets. The arrangement of these wallets were created to have one of a kind keys to distinguish your bitcoin. On the off chance that you can bear the cost of one you should get one. Be that as it may, typically these wallets are utilized to ensure you investment funds. You keep your sparing bitcoin in equipment wallet and you're spending bitcoin on online wallet, thusly of sorting out your bitcoins can help you a great deal.

frowsiter

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Quote from: pixie85 on June 24, 2017, 05:21:06 PM

Quote from: gentlemand on June 23, 2017, 11:19:00 AM

If done right a paper wallet is zero risk, but many people won't do it right.

The main difference will be usability. You can't send from a paper wallet, only receive. With a hardware wallet it's just as practical as any other one when it comes to spending.

At the moment it seems your main problem will be actually getting hold of any of the major hardware wallets. Unless you pay through the nose on Ebay or Amazon you might be in for a long wait before they restock.

Using a paper wallet is difficult and time consuming. Losing that piece of paper means losing your money, and losing a trezor means only that you'll have to go home and open your main wallet to send and receive anything. And that you just lost a lot of money because hardware wallets are much more expensive than pieces of paper Cheesy

Managing them with ease is not possible. It's like blank chequebook signed by you and if you loose it then you lost your saved money too. It's so easy to cash them out if you have the barcode. With little efforts the money can be cracked from the wallet. I'm assuming it needs more upgrades regarding the time of use and security as well.

reflector

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Quote from: Fr33M@n on July 07, 2017, 09:53:10 AM

After all discussions I would still recommend paper wallet.

Trezor looks very interesting, but what we gonna do if it glitches or if we will break or lose it? Probably there should be some solutions but I didn't dig into it

Guys if you find any answers already about the thread op query, Please don't dig it further. It may finally made moderator to block your account also. If you are comfort any wallet whether hardware or paper. Choose any thing accordingly. Unnecessary extending thread will never do nothing for you or other.
OP could lock this thread, if you are fine with the previous answers.

Fr33M@n

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After all discussions I would still recommend paper wallet.

Trezor looks very interesting, but what we gonna do if it glitches or if we will break or lose it? Probably there should be some solutions but I didn't dig into it

Skrodk

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One question:

Trezor has the key input on the screen.

Nano S has the key input on the computer, yes?

Doesn't this by default make the Trezor more secure against Keyloggers etc?

And, do you see Phone wallets as being more secure than Desktop wallets, until i get one of them?

European Central Bank

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unless I'm mistaken xapo charge deposit fees now. Micro earning is probably unviable as a concept now with bit coin.

BitHodler

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Quote from: European Central Bank on June 24, 2017, 08:56:09 PM

Quote from: SvenBomvolen on June 24, 2017, 06:22:07 PM

In the case if you are a micro-earner use online wallet, it's easy and the level of safety of such wallets is growing year by year.

how and where?

in the last few weeks we've seen jaxx wallet having a huge vulnerability and blockchain.info is no more secure that it was in the past. and micro earners above everyone else need control over their fees and no online wallet does that.

a phone wallet will always be a better bet than something accessible through a browser.

Mobile wallets such as the one from Mycelium are indeed a much better alternative in terms of security and fee control, no doubt about that.

Point however is that faucets and other sites that allow people to earn extremely small number of coins, is that they switched to Coinbase and Xapo as they allow free internal transactions.

It basically means that if people want to continue earning through these sites, they are forced to sign up at Coinbase and Xapo anyway. Downside obviously is that there is no fee control.

European Central Bank

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Quote from: SvenBomvolen on June 24, 2017, 06:22:07 PM

In the case if you are a micro-earner use online wallet, it's easy and the level of safety of such wallets is growing year by year.

how and where?

in the last few weeks we've seen jaxx wallet having a huge vulnerability and blockchain.info is no more secure that it was in the past. and micro earners above everyone else need control over their fees and no online wallet does that.

a phone wallet will always be a better bet than something accessible through a browser.

SvenBomvolen

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All this wallets are the same kind, you just need to take that interface that your eye like the most. Hardware and paper wallets are used mostly for big amount of coins holding. In the case if you are a micro-earner use online wallet, it's easy and the level of safety of such wallets is growing year by year.

harizen

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There's a related article where you can see some of the feedback of those three hardwallets you have mentioned:

https://99bitcoins.com/winners2017-best-bitcoin-hardware-wallet/

https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/wallets/

Worth reading if you really want to purchase one of them.

pixie85

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Quote from: gentlemand on June 23, 2017, 11:19:00 AM

If done right a paper wallet is zero risk, but many people won't do it right.

The main difference will be usability. You can't send from a paper wallet, only receive. With a hardware wallet it's just as practical as any other one when it comes to spending.

At the moment it seems your main problem will be actually getting hold of any of the major hardware wallets. Unless you pay through the nose on Ebay or Amazon you might be in for a long wait before they restock.

Using a paper wallet is difficult and time consuming. Losing that piece of paper means losing your money, and losing a trezor means only that you'll have to go home and open your main wallet to send and receive anything. And that you just lost a lot of money because hardware wallets are much more expensive than pieces of paper Cheesy

swogerino

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Quote from: richardsNY on June 24, 2017, 02:13:57 PM

Quote from: BitHodler on June 24, 2017, 09:25:11 AM

it's beyond insane how expensive they are being listed for sale.

I just gave Ebay a browse, and yes, it's mind boggling how much people are asking for them. People are basically seeing it as a money making opportunity, and thus buy as many of these devices as possible from LedgerWallet, and flip them with a decent profit. No matter how desperate people are to get their hands on one, I can't see anyone ever going to throw $400 on the table because they are out of stock for a while....

I would advise not to buy from Ebay no matter how much trusted the seller is. There is always a small possibility that the seller has done some thing nasty before shipping it to you. This may happen 1 in a million but better to be safe than sorry, always buy from the direct supplier, they will not risk their name as this business is their main income.

richardsNY

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Quote from: BitHodler on June 24, 2017, 09:25:11 AM

it's beyond insane how expensive they are being listed for sale.

I just gave Ebay a browse, and yes, it's mind boggling how much people are asking for them. People are basically seeing it as a money making opportunity, and thus buy as many of these devices as possible from LedgerWallet, and flip them with a decent profit. No matter how desperate people are to get their hands on one, I can't see anyone ever going to throw $400 on the table because they are out of stock for a while....

Catmony

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Quote from: Skrodk on June 23, 2017, 08:50:56 AM

As the name suggests, are they worth it? Looking for security obviously.

I have looked at Trezor, Ledger and Keepkey

Not sure what is preferred, and is it correct that the wallets themselves doesn't actually store your coins? are they better than a simply paper wallet?

Thanks in advance.

I think you can go with Trezor but if you are looking for quite cheaper solution than ledger can also be a good option for you. If you don't like to pay for hardware wallet, you can also rely on simple paper wallet and it can provide similar security if you can make it in completely offline environment.

Decoded

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A properly made Paper wallet is probably as safe as you can get. I would describe a hardware wallet as the same thing, but risking a tiny bit of security for convenience.

Since you can't spend from a paper wallet without risking its security or with it being incredibly tiresome to do, it's just not for the everyday (or every month for that matter) spender. Hardware wallets may have vulnerabilities to be found or even a backdoor to be exploited, since they rely on specialised firmware. But most hardware wallets are so easy to use. They just require a plug in and a few button press to access your funds.

BitHodler

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@TryNinja

Thanks for pointing that out. It gives me a good level of confidence as my main concern was indeed someone messing around with it.

I was about to order it for €110, but it directly told me it was out of stock. Other site was charging €130, but once again out of stock.

I am fine with paying €50-€60 premium, but if I look through amazon and ebay, it's beyond insane how expensive they are being listed for sale.

I went ahead and purchased myself one from ledger wallet itself for €70 (ex shipping). I now just need patience.

@banooll

I understand that it offers less convenience, but security is number 1 when it comes to storing something so precious as my coins.

bonooll

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Quote from: BitHodler on June 24, 2017, 06:36:38 AM

I was initially looking to purchase myself the Trezor hardware wallet, but I never spent any serious time on how its recovery process works, till now as pointed out a few posts above me.

I am tempted to buy the Ledger wallet, but unfortunately, it will start shipping on September 4th this year. I could buy it from various other sources a lot quicker, but I am too paranoid for that.

ohhh come on. get Trezor~ doing recovery on Ledger will probably break your fingers. and Trezor has a bigger screen which can display the QR code when you receive transfer.
well,, all up to you. choose what you love and love what you choose

TryNinja

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Quote from: BitHodler on June 24, 2017, 06:36:38 AM

I am tempted to buy the Ledger wallet, but unfortunately, it will start shipping on September 4th this year. I could buy it from various other sources a lot quicker, but I am too paranoid for that.

I found this on the Ledger Nano S FAQ:

Quote

- Why isn't it any anti-tampering sticker on the Nano S box?

Ledger is using cryptographic attestation to make sure that the devices you receive are genuine; A cryptographic procedure checks the integrity of the hardware wallet's internal software each time it is powered on. The Secure Element chip prevents any interception or physical replacement attemps.

Anti-tampering stickers are security theater: any attacker capable of reproducing a device can print new shiny stickers. Ledger's products are engineered to be natively tamper-proof and cannot be counterfeited.

Maybe this will make you more comfortable about buying from a third party?

BitHodler

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I was initially looking to purchase myself the Trezor hardware wallet, but I never spent any serious time on how its recovery process works, till now as pointed out a few posts above me.

I am tempted to buy the Ledger wallet, but unfortunately, it will start shipping on September 4th this year. I could buy it from various other sources a lot quicker, but I am too paranoid for that.

bonooll

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Yes you can say Trezor's recovery procedure is less secure than Ledger Nano's. But i do still consider it as very secure, because:
1. Trezor will not ask you to type your mnemonics in order. e.g. type 2nd one -> 5th one -> 1st one ...etc
2. Trezor will also ask you to type some words which are not part of your recovery seed. e.g. you chose a 24 words of recovery seed, but Trezor asked you to input 27 words in total. 3 of them are not from your seed.

I do hope that Trezor will make it even more secure, my suggestion: to split the words, for example:
please input first 3 letters of the 3rd words + last 2 letters of the 1st word -> input last 3 letters of the 15th word + first 2 letters of the 22nd word
this will make the key-logger definitely can't understand what you're typing

Ethan_Locke

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Paper is solid providing that you can keep it safe etc (high risk involved in my house) haha! Trezor's are best, dependant number of bitcoins that you currently own buy multiple just in case of hardware glitches, by no means does this happen often (never happened to me) but better safe that sorry.

OROBTC

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...

Yes, you should use a hardware wallet when you feel ready. They are better protection than the online wallets (and even worse are the exchanges).

I have used (and liked all three)

-- Ledger Nano
-- Trezor
-- DigitalBitBox

I like the last one the best, it just inspires the most confidence with me.

Reviews of all of these (and others) can be found aroun the forum if you look around.

richardsNY

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I misread your post as you was solely referring to inputting the recovery seed, and not generating it -- my bad. In this case you're right, in terms of security the Ledger gains a fair bit of advantage here. 24 seed words requires quite a bit of clicking on those 2 buttons, but the main point of importance is always security, so that shouldn't be a problem. I seriously do hope that Trezor will move away from the way their recovery process works, because I am using one as cold storage.

European Central Bank

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Quote from: richardsNY on June 23, 2017, 02:23:03 PM

That only goes up if you're making use of the Ledger Blue. If you make use of the Ledger Nano S, you'll have no other option than to connect it to your computer. And yes, Trezor indeed requires you to connect it to a computer, but the recovery seed that you have to store properly is only being displayed on the device itself -- it operates separately from the computer it's connected to.

the only risk connecting a ledger is your bitcoin address being swapped in the chrome app. everyone should be double checking that anyway. you enter the seed in the device itself.

the trezor requires you enter a recovery seed on a computer. the nano s doesn't. the trezor does scramble the word order but that's not as secure. i assume they're gonna do something about that because it doesn't look like a very good idea to me.

richardsNY

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Quote from: European Central Bank on June 23, 2017, 01:59:21 PM

the ledger is the more secure because you're inputting your recovery seed on the device itself. with a trezor you're doing it on the computer.

That only goes up if you're making use of the Ledger Blue. If you make use of the Ledger Nano S, you'll have no other option than to connect it to your computer. And yes, Trezor indeed requires you to connect it to a computer, but the recovery seed that you have to store properly is only being displayed on the device itself -- it operates separately from the computer it's connected to.

European Central Bank

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Quote from: Bitcoinsummoner on June 23, 2017, 01:49:30 PM

Base on other review trezor is most secured wallet and immune in any viruses and keyloggers unlike ledger nano s that only immune in virus..

where'd you hear that?

if you're inputting on a computer it doesn't matter which hardware wallet you're using. they can't account for key loggers.

the ledger is the more secure because you're inputting your recovery seed on the device itself. with a trezor you're doing it on the computer.

Bitcoinsummoner

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Base on other review trezor is most secured wallet and immune in any viruses and keyloggers unlike ledger nano s that only immune in virus..
So i think much better to choose trezor if you want to hold your bitcoin safety..
And i think we don't need to use 3rd party wallet like hardware wallet since never experience any issue using simple wallet like electrum wallet.. If you had and save your seeds safety or backup private keys your bitcoin are safe..

gentlemand

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If done right a paper wallet is zero risk, but many people won't do it right.

The main difference will be usability. You can't send from a paper wallet, only receive. With a hardware wallet it's just as practical as any other one when it comes to spending.

At the moment it seems your main problem will be actually getting hold of any of the major hardware wallets. Unless you pay through the nose on Ebay or Amazon you might be in for a long wait before they restock.

Nagadota

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Personally, I have a TREZOR. Not too familiar with Ledger or Keepkey but I think they're somewhat similar to it.

Quote from: Skrodk on June 23, 2017, 08:50:56 AM

Not sure what is preferred, and is it correct that the wallets themselves doesn't actually store your coins?

No. TREZOR holds your private keys and xan sign transactions. It has to connect to a computer for you to spend from an interface, but TREZOR have took a lot of cool precautions which stop you from revealing a lot on your computer screen, and it also acts as a kind of 2fa device.

Quote from: Skrodk

are they better than a simply paper wallet?

Hard to say. A benefit is that they're very easy to set up with additional passphrases, hidden wallets and other features which make it almost impossible to steal your coins.

However, a slight point of failure could be updates. Verify the SatoshiLabs' signed message before updating, and make sure to check places like the TREZOR thread and subreddit to make sure the updates are not malicious.

It also depends on how you generate your paper wallet and where you store it. Hard to make a reasonable comparison.

Skrodk

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As the name suggests, are they worth it? Looking for security obviously.

I have looked at Trezor, Ledger and Keepkey

Not sure what is preferred, and is it correct that the wallets themselves doesn't actually store your coins? are they better than a simply paper wallet?

Thanks in advance.

Topic: Hardware wallets? (Read 1486 times)