Has anyone successfully used really high leverage or is that just gambling?

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Quote from: jackg on April 22, 2019, 06:24:11 AM

By really high leverage I mean anything that's over 100x. Is it possible to be successful doing that. I have short term profits with 10x leverage but I'm wondering about experimenting with higher. Also I'm guessing it's safer to make a 100x bet for and against yourself just as a bit of insurance so you don't lose too much (obviously using the api as I'm not that fast).

If I have used it very few times but not at x100, because x100 is so fast that they can liquidate your position, most traders use x100 leverage because it is one of the best gains when you are in the right direction, but I usually use leverage to do very short operations of 1 to 5 minutes, if I do not see that I start to get profit, I just cut the trade.

This is simple, many times the Exchanges also operate, and they know very well where the resistances and ceilings of the operations are, having that information is very easy to operate, only the correct way or direction of the market must be followed.

Where else I have used the leverage has been in BITMEX, and has not been x100, has always been x25, since x25 has more option that do not liquidate the positions quickly, and gives you more possibilities that you can maneuver within the market, because the first positions to settle are those of x100 and x50. I recommend that if you use the leverage you do trading downwards and not upwards, because the upside usually charge much more fee, and it is more likely that the prices go down quickly that go up quickly, and that you do not use leverage x100 but x25 while you are becoming more expert.

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Quote from: jackg on April 22, 2019, 06:24:11 AM

By really high leverage I mean anything that's over 100x. Is it possible to be successful doing that. I have short term profits with 10x leverage but I'm wondering about experimenting with higher. Also I'm guessing it's safer to make a 100x bet for and against yourself just as a bit of insurance so you don't lose too much (obviously using the api as I'm not that fast).

The risk is too high if you are to use up to 100x of your funds because I have tried it before and at the end I lost all my money and I later noticed that my decision was out greedy not just because I made any serious analysis before I made the decision.

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If I got success in gambling I like to invest in it so the winning amount from the gambling will not came out for lots of people so I don't know how to get success in gambling for quick.

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Quote from: Thirdspace on April 25, 2019, 06:58:16 PM

I can say that high leverage means higher risk for higher return... sounds like gambling?
if you know the market direction is continuously uptrend without correction, then you can be successful
but in any trade market, market movement isn't that easy to predict even signals aren't 100% definite
so for me, high leverage 100x is like betting 10% chance winning on dice games Grin

That is what it is, I have seen some people claiming they have a system with 90% accuracy but what happens when they lose? They lose a huge amount of money, however those systems can still be profitable but if you use leverage then that means that your entire account can be wiped out if the market goes against you and as long as your chances of winning are not 100%, and I have to yet see a system that wins every single time, then that means that sooner or later you are going to face bankruptcy.

And when that happens the people that used leverage are going to blame everyone trying to shift the blame when they are the only ones to blame since they were the ones to use leverage on the first place.

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Quote from: jackg on April 22, 2019, 06:24:11 AM

By really high leverage I mean anything that's over 100x. Is it possible to be successful doing that. I have short term profits with 10x leverage but I'm wondering about experimenting with higher. Also I'm guessing it's safer to make a 100x bet for and against yourself just as a bit of insurance so you don't lose too much (obviously using the api as I'm not that fast).

it depends on how you can use the possibilities sometimes it would be like Prophet giving but in sometimes we cannot make any changes it will always about luck and time so we need everything to be helpful for the success otherwise it will always like experimentation process for you.

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Quote from: BitHodler on April 27, 2019, 01:49:55 PM

Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on April 22, 2019, 10:25:00 AM

I've tied x 100 and I was quite successful using 1-2% of my wallet for each trade unless i was keeping my emotions on a leash.

What do you mean with keeping your emotions on a leash? 100x only requires a 1% move to wipe out your initial trade. Regardless of how the charts look, a 1% move can occur at any time and in any direction.

I prefer to use mild leverage multipliers so that I can hold my position open, regardless of the volatility. I have experienced it before that after my position was opened I was in the red, but with some patience it turned green.

If you use tight stops you don't have that advantage. You are basically subjected to the mercy of the short term fluctuations, and I rather avoid that. I'm happy with lower profits as long as the risks are relatively low too.

Anything better than a loss.

1 h amplitude on bitcoin is most often lower than 0.5%. So 1% move does not happen that often. When you are trading with x100 leverage you are using complete different strategy than with x10 or without leverage at all. You put like 1-2% of your wallet into single trade. That way if once per day 1% move will appear you are loosing those 1-2% of your wallet. And you go on with next trade. Its like going in with 20% of your wallet and x10 leverage with 1% stoploss. You are risking the same amount of money.

With keeping emotions on a leash I mean to hold that strategy. Do not put more than 1% of your wallet even if you are so sure that it will go as you predicted. That's why this is not for me since I'm not able to hold with putting more and more money into trade. Its too addictive.

With x100 leverage you have build in stoploss on your wallet equal to position size.

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I think both of those things are not mutually exclusive, there are people who like gambling as well and gambling has a house edge which means that there is a guarantee you will lose in the long term if you play a lot.

Moreover, if you do really high leverage than you are going to trade with a bit of gambling as well but at least there is no house edge and if you are good at what you do and know what and where we are going than that gambling could profit you as well, there are plenty of people who profited from even dice games with house edge so profiting from really high leverage trading is not that unthinkable even though we can call it rolling dice as well. So, it is just basically a house edgeless dice roll type of situation if you know what you are doing.

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Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on April 22, 2019, 10:25:00 AM

I've tied x 100 and I was quite successful using 1-2% of my wallet for each trade unless i was keeping my emotions on a leash.

What do you mean with keeping your emotions on a leash? 100x only requires a 1% move to wipe out your initial trade. Regardless of how the charts look, a 1% move can occur at any time and in any direction.

I prefer to use mild leverage multipliers so that I can hold my position open, regardless of the volatility. I have experienced it before that after my position was opened I was in the red, but with some patience it turned green.

If you use tight stops you don't have that advantage. You are basically subjected to the mercy of the short term fluctuations, and I rather avoid that. I'm happy with lower profits as long as the risks are relatively low too.

Anything better than a loss.

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I prefer to use 2x leverage, which might seem like peanuts to some people, but for me that's more than enough. I appreciate every satoshi in profit that I make.

The highest leverage I ever used was 25x but I felt so uncomfortable that I closed the position after like an hour. In my opinion anything above 10x is similar to gambling in the crypto space. People seem to overlook the fact that they add leverage to an already super volatile asset class, that's crazy. On top of that, Bitmex with its spontaneous killer wicks makes things even more risky. Noobs get brutally liquidated in a blink of an eye like that.

klaaas

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It will increase the risks as high as the leverage, If you do trades on very small gains it can maybe benefit to use such high number. Even for the experienced traders this can be lethal to use.

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Quote from: StarofBTC on April 26, 2019, 02:29:33 PM

Quote from: maxreish on April 24, 2019, 09:24:14 PM

For some, yes. Using that 100x leverage with scalping can be successful and they gained profits for a small percentage but as for my personal experienced, I just liquidated because the higher the leverage the sooner the liquidation rate. And the risk is really high, too.
After that experience, I do not want to try it again and risk my whole fund to lose.

This type of trade was exactly what destroyed my trading career in forex, and based on my personal experience, I think it is greed because that was what led me into increasing my leverage because of the winnings I was enjoying trading with a very low leverage.

I thought I could risk it, so I took my chance, since the market has been good for a while, the moment I took that step, as if some sort of people were watching my moves, that is how the market went against me, and it was just like twinkle of my eye, the dip was so high that before I could stop my loss, I had already entered negative

And when you do enter on the negative side you wont easily able to get out on forex.High leverage would really have that big negative even on the slightest movement or price opposing
with your own position which means cutting loss or canceling it out is high which leads to loss and recovery wont really be that easy.High leverage=High risk and only a few would able to
manage to winn or profitable.

StarofBTC

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Quote from: maxreish on April 24, 2019, 09:24:14 PM

For some, yes. Using that 100x leverage with scalping can be successful and they gained profits for a small percentage but as for my personal experienced, I just liquidated because the higher the leverage the sooner the liquidation rate. And the risk is really high, too.
After that experience, I do not want to try it again and risk my whole fund to lose.

This type of trade was exactly what destroyed my trading career in forex, and based on my personal experience, I think it is greed because that was what led me into increasing my leverage because of the winnings I was enjoying trading with a very low leverage.

I thought I could risk it, so I took my chance, since the market has been good for a while, the moment I took that step, as if some sort of people were watching my moves, that is how the market went against me, and it was just like twinkle of my eye, the dip was so high that before I could stop my loss, I had already entered negative

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I don't think that normal traders have got the skills to do it successfully, it is just a gambling for them, but there are a few pro-traders they have got the skills to do it. I believe timing is more important in it.

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I can say that high leverage means higher risk for higher return... sounds like gambling?
if you know the market direction is continuously uptrend without correction, then you can be successful
but in any trade market, market movement isn't that easy to predict even signals aren't 100% definite
so for me, high leverage 100x is like betting 10% chance winning on dice games Grin

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Quote from: alisafidel58 on April 23, 2019, 01:15:32 AM

I haven't tried doing a 100X leverage because I feel like I'm just gambling it. With the current volatility of the market, I can't afford to lose so much with that leverage. The risk is quite and emotions might get me.

It is typically gambling and too full of risk; the risk involved is higher than the assurance, in this volatile market? If those who are trading less volatile coins cannot dare to leverage on 100x, since they are still operating in a market that price cannot be predicted.

In as much as we have lots of benefits that we can grab from the market, we have to still be less greedy, it is only greed that will make a man want to leverage 100x and not strategy, except the trader is trading with very high amount of morning with wide marking, and we are talking about thousands to millions of dollars here.

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For some, yes. Using that 100x leverage with scalping can be successful and they gained profits for a small percentage but as for my personal experienced, I just liquidated because the higher the leverage the sooner the liquidation rate. And the risk is really high, too.
After that experience, I do not want to try it again and risk my whole fund to lose.

wxa7115

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Quote from: jackg on April 22, 2019, 06:24:11 AM

By really high leverage I mean anything that's over 100x. Is it possible to be successful doing that. I have short term profits with 10x leverage but I'm wondering about experimenting with higher. Also I'm guessing it's safer to make a 100x bet for and against yourself just as a bit of insurance so you don't lose too much (obviously using the api as I'm not that fast).

Honestly I do not see the point of leveraging your trades in crypto, I understand some people do this in traditional markets since the volatility there is many times lower than what we see in this market, but when you see some of the movements alts can do in a matter of minutes or hours leveraging seems like a way to hurt yourself more than anything, it is true that if you leverage your trade in the moment a coin goes up abruptly you could obtain profits that are amazing.

But as long as you have a trading system that you have tested and you know it gives consistent profits then you do not need leverage, and in fact leverage could break your system since one of the most important aspects of trading is money management.

jackg

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I hadn't accounted for the fees recently so I've mede profit and then lost it faster due to the fees bitmex charges.

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It is a double edge sword. You can profit very quickly when you timed the right market but if you made the wrong prediction then it can also easily drain your funds away. Just use it if you are certain the market is going a definite direction which is very hard to predict in crypto market.

jackg

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The feeling is very much a snakes and ladders with a snake every odd square away, a ladder every even square and nothing at number 6.

You fall down by about 20% sometimes and shoot up 40 the next. There's a feeling to always keep an eye on it too. I feel its good for a train or car journey though that's particularly long. A stop loss isn't flexible enough for what you'd want. It turns out you can be in profit on bitmex and then lose out even though the price has gone higher than your close price?

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Quote from: jackg on April 23, 2019, 09:49:25 AM

After continously repeating my mantra, setting a take profit I bought at 100x with 0.018 and initially went down to 0.016 and then back to 0.019 where it finally liquidated (I was using round numbers because Im too tired for actual maths lol).

P. S. The mantra was "It's only 0.019, who cares if it's gone"

$100 wont really be that much on testing out 100x leverage. Actually didnt able to try this out yet i do only limit myself with 5x-10x and go beyond 100x is a no for me.
How does it feel on trading up on 100x?

jackg

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After continously repeating my mantra, setting a take profit I bought at 100x with 0.018 and initially went down to 0.016 and then back to 0.019 where it finally liquidated (I was using round numbers because Im too tired for actual maths lol).

P. S. The mantra was "It's only 0.019, who cares if it's gone"

vit05

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I believe that the only opportunity to use 100x is if some very big shit happens and you know the exact minute it happened. You will always have at least a variation of 5% to 15% in a matter of minutes.

Short 100x, take profit and quit.

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Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on April 22, 2019, 11:33:31 AM

Quote from: --DarkSecrets-- on April 22, 2019, 11:22:52 AM

I guess you are usinh bitmex or other sites with marginal trade. 100x is very risky and to say i lost so much money in there by using that kind of leverage. In just a second the direction or manipulation of the price that has a big wave up and down can make your position liquidated. Bitmex is not a room for those who wants to go 100x if you are doing that you should be very sure on the position you are going to and sell before a killer wave that happens most of the time.

Liquidation in x100 margin trading is on a daily basis. If that's a problem for you means that you did money management wrong and put too much into 1 position (just like i did due to being too emotional once). If you put 1-2% of your wallet into x100 margin trade you are risking 1-2% of your wallet. Its like going all in with 1-2% stop loss without leverage. That's how x100 should be played.

Yes, i am so greedy that time and i'm almost new to bitmex i tried only because my colleagues are also use to trade on bitmex. It was a very wrong move for me to go 50x and x100 trying to follow some veteran traders. Now i have some small amount left and trading for long position opened at 3500. I learned a lot from that lost use low leverage especially on that abnormal market. Thanks for advice as well.

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Highly risky position with not even a definite short-term goal. This is a pure gamble IMO though it is doable and I have seen some traders got extremely lucky by pulling the said strategy. Given the high volatility of bitcoin and its market always engaged in a fast-paced environment, I'm not sure whether I'll be able to pull off such a feat and come out victorious, nor will I ever have the guts to freely give away my money with my full consent of it. If this is slow moving markets with low volatility, I guess it is possible, but crypto? Highly improbable.

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One of my friends tried it and got burnt pretty bad by trading on Bitmex recently. He quit trading after that and is solely depending on signature campaigns from there on.

I don't do short term trades since I am a long term HODLER myself which is why I have no experience whatsoever in this case though I don't think anyone would want to take such a big risk here.

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I think leveraging more than 100x is too risky. I won't risk my funds through that because it's more like gambling. I think leveraging isn't that bad but the higher you do it, the higher the chance of losing it. We couldn't gain a consistent profit through leveraging so risking 100x isn't a good idea. I would rather do it the normal way.

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I haven't tried doing a 100X leverage because I feel like I'm just gambling it. With the current volatility of the market, I can't afford to lose so much with that leverage. The risk is quite and emotions might get me.

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I feel like it is totally a gambling. Bitcoin is something that moves any direction and since we do not know which direction it will go then how could we know enough to have high leveraged because those high leveraged ones really do not have big movement allowed, even a small change any direction will make all your money go away.

I think the real reason why its gambling is the big leveraged though since I feel like small leverage could be done or even no leverage but just any direction would be decent too. So, trading is definitely not a gambling, trading is a professional thing, even small leverage is fine, however those huge ones are really horrible and totally gambling.

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Quote from: carter34 on April 22, 2019, 11:58:04 AM

You can be successful even above hundred but you don't have to throw off your money management, just in the moment that volatility gets stormy. Money management is key to high leverage trading

Its more high to lose money than to make money at all, high leveraging wont make any promise to you in long term because its hard to earn consistently. Money management is important of course, trading is different strategy and you should have it or else pure greed will take you out of the market.

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10x's the sweet spot for me as well when I'm trading with crypto. Anything higher and you just get liquidated way too fast on an exchange like Bitmex, I've tried 25x a few times in the near past but it never really worked out for me, still too risky IMO. Some people also abide by 3-5x though I typically conduct all my crypto-based trades on 10x leverage. Much simpler in the end to just use lower leverage.

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Quote from: jackg on April 22, 2019, 06:24:11 AM

By really high leverage I mean anything that's over 100x. Is it possible to be successful doing that. I have short term profits with 10x leverage but I'm wondering about experimenting with higher. Also I'm guessing it's safer to make a 100x bet for and against yourself just as a bit of insurance so you don't lose too much (obviously using the api as I'm not that fast).

If anyone tells you they consistently profit from 100x+ on crypto, they are lying. On forex definitely, but never on crypto.

The highest I ever use and profit well from is 10x. I've used 20x a few times (mostly for kicks) but it was completely ridiculous and overly risky. Even 10x is quite risky during times of significant volatility.

For me, 10x is for two situations: when I'm trading like a god (like during bubbles when you can consistently rebuy heavily oversold conditions safely) and when volatility is really low. Otherwise I really prefer 3x-5x.

Maybe I'm just risk averse but this has served me well for many years now.

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Yep, one can succeed too but chances of losing out are pretty high too.
I would advise that before one starts doing very high leverage, they should have a lot of experience and should be so good with risk management.
It's not for the fainthearted or very emotional traders.

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I have never used leverage trading so far as I'm not quite interested to do it, many people say it as a risky way to trade although it may give us nice profit but to be honest I do not dare to do it. I have read some tutorial about how to use leverage but it seems that it is not what I like to do with my money.

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You can be successful even above hundred but you don't have to throw off your money management, just in the moment that volatility gets stormy. Money management is key to high leverage trading

Tytanowy Janusz

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Quote from: --DarkSecrets-- on April 22, 2019, 11:22:52 AM

I guess you are usinh bitmex or other sites with marginal trade. 100x is very risky and to say i lost so much money in there by using that kind of leverage. In just a second the direction or manipulation of the price that has a big wave up and down can make your position liquidated. Bitmex is not a room for those who wants to go 100x if you are doing that you should be very sure on the position you are going to and sell before a killer wave that happens most of the time.

Liquidation in x100 margin trading is on a daily basis. If that's a problem for you means that you did money management wrong and put too much into 1 position (just like i did due to being too emotional once). If you put 1-2% of your wallet into x100 margin trade you are risking 1-2% of your wallet. Its like going all in with 1-2% stop loss without leverage. That's how x100 should be played.

--DarkSecrets--

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Quote from: jackg on April 22, 2019, 06:24:11 AM

By really high leverage I mean anything that's over 100x. Is it possible to be successful doing that. I have short term profits with 10x leverage but I'm wondering about experimenting with higher. Also I'm guessing it's safer to make a 100x bet for and against yourself just as a bit of insurance so you don't lose too much (obviously using the api as I'm not that fast).

I guess you are usinh bitmex or other sites with marginal trade. 100x is very risky and to say i lost so much money in there by using that kind of leverage. In just a second the direction or manipulation of the price that has a big wave up and down can make your position liquidated. Bitmex is not a room for those who wants to go 100x if you are doing that you should be very sure on the position you are going to and sell before a killer wave that happens most of the time.

Tytanowy Janusz

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I've tied x 100 and I was quite successful using 1-2% of my wallet for each trade unless i was keeping my emotions on a leash. Volatility on bitcoin is high but not as high to call x100 gambling (average amplitude of 1h candle is most often below 0.6%). If you are doing money management right you will earn.

Once i get too emotional and lost 20% of wallet in one trade by leaving money management behind the door. I quit leveraged trades than. It's not for me.

jackg

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By really high leverage I mean anything that's over 100x. Is it possible to be successful doing that. I have short term profits with 10x leverage but I'm wondering about experimenting with higher. Also I'm guessing it's safer to make a 100x bet for and against yourself just as a bit of insurance so you don't lose too much (obviously using the api as I'm not that fast).

Topic: Has anyone successfully used really high leverage or is that just gambling? (Read 417 times)