Topic: Has Bitcoin transaction double charged you. (Read 541 times)

Thanks God bro that's not happen with me cause there are some occasions where a failure in Blockchain could cause such problems. This day miners might have got good money cause of transaction fee was doubled charged.

@Agbe, If you are still looking at this thread, I read in a news article here that the Senate has urged the Central Bank of Nigeria (CBN) to extend the deadline for the return of the old currency from January 31, 2023, to June 30, 2023. I don't know how authentic the news is, but I believe it's good news for Nigeria's citizens.

Talking about bank alarming issues, I just wonder why someone (like myself) will open a personal savings account but the bank automatically charges me for a debit card against my will in just a few days of opening the account.

 


Etherium was the only crypto that had a crazy transaction fee, but that has been fixed after migration to POS. Similarly, some CEX have a high transaction fee when withdrawing bitcoin, but in such a case, Bitcoin Blockchain is not to be blamed because the CEX are responsible for the charge they add to their service. Wallet-to-wallet Bitcoin transactions is very low. talking about twice the change of banks, you will be charged for withdrawal, charge for SMS alert, charge for monthly or weekly statement of account, charge for account maintenance, etc. Bitcoin charges you only when you carry out your transaction.

I hate the bank for their actions and the issue of double charging. Recently, I had to go to the bank just to upgrade my account and had to stand in line for several hours before I was attended to. That is why I love bitcoin; there are no bank upgrades, no double charging, and unnecessary bank charges; bitcoin is just a digital currency. However, some people are still afraid of investing and selling off their assets due to the market. Am always angered when I experience a botched transaction and am debited.

What huge fee? The mempool is empty. You can make a transaction with a fee of 1 sat/vbyte, which works out around 4-5 cents for your average transaction.

It sounds to me like you are talking about the fee a centralized exchange or other centralized platform is charging you to process a withdrawal. Note that such a fee has absolutely no relation to the actual bitcoin network fee, and 99% of any such fee is going straight in to the pocket of the exchange in question.

If you hold your bitcoin in your own wallet (and choose a half decent wallet which allows you to customize the fee), then transactions are very cheap.

And why should the commission be charged twice?? If we take into account the huge fees for bitcoin transactions, we can say that the commission is charged twice as much as necessary! A joke of course! But the transaction fee on the blockchain network is very expensive, and it is not particularly profitable to transfer in bitcoins at all! And therefore, in this context, we can say that the commissions are charged as twice as much! a considerable commission is one of the main problems of bitcoin - without any humor!!

The bad experience getting from Bank is worrisome. There are different kinds of dramas play by people on the banking Hall by customers these days because of over charging of customers' saves. There are some days my banks charge me twice a day without doing any transactions. And if I did transaction, they charged me $0.001 per transaction. So to keep or save money in the bank is not encouraging again.

Recently, Central Bank of Nigeria redesign her Currency and they ask everyone to return the old note but according bro CBN, #169. 8 trillions are still waiting to be deposited and the deadline is January 30th. But the people decided to hold them and planning to deposit it on the "the day".

Thank you, sir, for this information. I guess I didn't understand the article so well.


In order to use Bitcoin, you must understand it well. Like O_e_l_e_o said, the problem is with the service you're using. If you are buying something online from a platform that accepts Bitcoin as a means of payment, they also know that volatility is one characteristic of Bitcoin, so they are not meant to ask you to pay extra due to service delay after paying them the agreed amount for goods.


That's exactly what I am saying. Bank transactions have some flaws that Bitcoin transactions supersede.

This also happened to me 5 days ago, I have withdrawn money at an ATM but for some reason they deducted money from my card but the money did not come out. I was quite panicking as it was my first time having this problem, then I contacted the bank to get it resolved. The annoying thing here is that I have to go directly to the bank to solve it in 2 days and I really need the money, today is 5 days and they promise the money will return to my account within 1 week. Banking is a centralized system so I believe this is not the only mistake they make, which is quite annoying if we have urgent work but everything is still solved. Of course, these problems do not happen with bitcoin but once we use bitcoin we need to be very careful because even a small mistake we will not be able to undo our money.

I had quite similar experiences with you. Using my DC to pay in a supermarket, at that time, the transaction failed, and then, they tried again using the DC to pay. And it's successful.
After several hours at home, I received a notification spending a similar amount out of my account. I came again to the supermarket and they told me to contact the bank because they didn't have the money after checking. How could?
Then, with some requirements, I needed to wait around 24 hours and I received again the money.

Another experience is that when I withdrew money at the ATM, the transaction was successful, but the money did not come out until the transaction was declared complete, I did not get the money from the ATM. I happened to make a cash withdrawal at a minimarket and it was caught on CCTV, then I was advised by the minimarket keeper to report it to the bank. And finally, I reported to the bank. I was able to get my money back, but after 3 days later. Even though at that time I really needed the money, how troublesome and annoyed if there was a problem like this but we couldn't get a solution quickly, moreover, we also wasted time taking care of it, and the mechanism for taking care of the bank was also quite troublesome.

That's very strange for me to see this happen in bitcoin for you because during all these years when I sued bitcoin for many payments I never had this problem at all, instead, this happened to me once when I was using FIAT and the credit card for buying something online and it was because of the payment gate technical issue, so regarding your case, I can say this properly happened to you because of some technical issue with a third party payment gate which cannot be an issue directly from bitcoin.

That's not a problem with bitcoin, but a problem with the service you are using not understanding how bitcoin works. I bet if the price went up in the meantime they wouldn't have refunded you the difference.

That's not really accurate. Nodes keep an updated mempool of unconfirmed transactions, which is indeed updated after every transaction they receive. Miners create a candidate block from this mempool, but only once a block is mined is the blockchain itself updated.

Blockchain is a distributed database of complete information about the Bitcoin network. After each transaction, this database is updated by miners and nodes, which form a block of transactions and add them to it. Information is stored in blocks, which are actually a block chain of transactions.

Some may argue that this is only a drawback if the merchant is not using some type of POS (point of sale) system. This can happen where there is a central server, either public or private, that manages all Bitcoin transactions.

This way, it will be able to determine that the transaction has been committed but there may even be a delay in finding the next block. Therefore, there will be no double spending and all blocks can be synced together.

Although this obviously renders this drawback useless as you can easily track how many coins were spent on items, buyers and transaction IDs. However, when it comes to small traders selling one-time items, they are forced to keep track of themselves and ensure that they only allow enough money in the account to cover what they are looking to sell over the course of the day or week.

As far as I know, there is no such thing as a Double charge in Bitcoin terminology or even in real Bitcoin transactions so we won't be reading or hearing any complaints about this double charge in the Bitcoin network. Instead, there is double spending which is pretty popular as one of the weaknesses of the Bitcoin network but can easily solve by waiting for two or three confirmations.

I have had several bad experiences with Banks over the years.... from them breaking promises not to charge me fees, if I kept X amount of money in the account and still charging fees... even if I do that.... to having countless scenarios where the ATM's was out of order when I needed cash. 

Bitcoin and services linked to it can also have issues.... I recently bought something online.... and the confirmation of the transaction took too long.... so I paid to little.... then the service asked me to pay more... I did that and the price of BTC went down again.... and it asked me to do it again...... 

You are confusing what you have read. With bitcoin, transactions have always been verified and shared between nodes. This process of transaction verification was present from the start; it was not developed or introduced later. Double spending was less difficult in the earlier days of bitcoin, but this was generally due to things like a less well connected network, increased latency, or the potential for an attacker to have a significant proportion of the hashrate and mine in secret. It was not due to there not being a process for verifying transactions which were broadcast.

These terms are not synonymous. A race attack is a specific type of double spend, but there are others. See here for more info: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Irreversible_Transactions

From one article I read, I learnt that at the earliest times of Bitcoin, double spending was kind of possible, but a transaction verification mechanism was developed to stop the problem.

I have never had such experience onchain neither have I had a Bitcoin failed or double charged transaction. Blockchain chain is quite different from the banking system whereby failed transactions or double charged transaction are recorded. I believe you were trying to make I payment via the bank and there was no likely a poor connection when it took place hence the double charged deduction was recorded. It happens so often on the Normal fiat transactions as such is a norm and not new in the system but nevertheless, blockchain is not so. Bitcoin is not so was a transaction is sent, I goes through there by creating transaction harsh onchain which serves as a ledger for such transaction and it is recorded for life. It contains the source, sender and receiver address and also note that once a transaction is sent via a private wallet, it goes through but sending from an exchange, it requires you to verify the wallet address and with your approval before it could be sent to the destination where you want it to go to. In the overall,  I have not Bitcoin double charged as I do not buy or pay through financial organization but rather exchanges where Iit could be very easier for me to transact without any form of  stress just like the financial institution.

Bitcoin doesn't have double-charging, but any mistake in Bitcoin is nearly guaranteed to be final. Two biggest problems with using Bitcoin are hacks and accidnetal loss. Hacks happen with fiat too, but at least with fiat there's some chance to return your money, plus banks are trying to take precautions, like calling your number if someone tries to withdraw your money. But permanently losing access to account simply does not exist with fiat, you can just go to your bank with your id and have it restored, or even do it online. With Bitcoin if you lost your wallet file and backup, you won't see your coins ever again.

To be honest I've never experienced or heard anybody be double charged when using debit cards here.

First of all there is "file" involved in any of the cryptocurrencies or tokens. There are only transactions.
Secondly you can neither duplicate nor falsify a transaction output (aka coins). It is simply impossible.
Double spending is not about duplicating the same transaction, but spending same coins more than once.

This is the most incomprehensible thing I've read here!

If your wallet doesn't have 'errors', a double charge can't happen in the bitcoin network, some member's have already made this point known in this topic, what can happen with BTC transactions is double spending, but it is not difficult to get around it, if you are a merchant that doesn't want to be a victim of race attacks, don't release goods or whatever it is until the transaction has six confirmations, another way double spend can happen is if a malicious miner has over 50% of the network's hashrate, but that is almost impossible to happen.
The OP was not alluding to transaction fees in this topic, but double charge which happens in fiat e-banking were customers can be deducted twice for a single transaction, but it can't happen in BTC, what can is double spend, also knows as race attacks because whichever conflicting transactions is added to the block by a miner first means the second one is disapproved.

It is true that bitcoin transactions do not fail like bank transactions or while making use of payment gateway like MasterCard and Visa card. I have faced errors before, many times. There was even one product that I ordered on online mall in my country, the transaction was cancelled and gave me error but the money was deducted from my bank account, it was a very bad experience for me. Bitcoin is better and that is not debatable at all because fiat error transaction makes bitcoin to be superior, but with all these error in fiat, people can not still do without fiat, the government will make sure that their citizens are making use of fiat as a legal tender. If I should rate both fiat and bitcoin transaction, bitcoin is better, I prefer bitcoin 10 minute confirmation than fiat transaction error.

Agree, this is one of the many differences between how the Bank works versus the Bitcoin works or the Centralized system versus a Decentralized system. When this occurs to these centralized platforms, they can easily revert or redo it.
As others said below this is possible for Bitcoin but not on the network itself but the other platforms that use the Bitcoin network like on wallets or exchanges.

Very interesting, It is very important to be aware of situations where double spending can occur and take precautions against them. But I think in one situation it is mandatory to complain if there is a double spending and the bank is trying to prevent it from happening again for the users (even though it's not their fault)

Regarding your assumption that Bitcoin transactions are more accurate in my opinion because people put so much money into investing and it is possible that the address in question becomes valid and the transaction becomes real very high.

I have registered this as one of the benefits of Bitcoin, it can't double charge you, at least I have never witnessed such or read about it from anyone. Although the charges of Bitcoin transactions are not fixed, they could be high or lower, yet it would charge the person once, and the charges are always ridiculously low compared to fiat. Also, if one knows how to use the mempool very well, very low charges might be allocated always. This is an additional benefit compared to fiat which is fixed and always set by the sole operator (financial institution).

Those statements are not contradictory. A double spend is initiated by the person spending the bitcoin, and sends the same output to two different places. A double charge would be a malicious or buggy software sending two different outputs to the same place.

While a buggy wallet may indeed attempt to double spend an unconfirmed transaction by mistake and without the user being aware, no transaction can ever be "approved twice". When one of the conflicting transactions is confirmed, the other is immediately invalidated.

When a malicious spender sends the same Bitcoin to two addresses, it will only end up in one of them, according to o_e_l_e_o, but according to EftBitcoin,Double charging is essentially impossible on Bitcoin, unless you use a buggy wallet. Now my question is, does it mean this buggy wallet can cause a transaction to be successfully carried out and approved twice to two different receiver wallets?

A bitcoin transaction fee is the fee for transferring a certain amount of bitcoin, it is directly proportional to the time it takes to validate and complete a transaction, the average btc transaction fee is steadily decreasing, a robust bitcoin network can process secure bitcoin transactions at lower fees, as long as I do bitcoin transactions I have never been charged double.

Thanks to Satoshi for solving the double-spending puzzle. The big difference, however, is that bank transactions are generally reversible while Bitcoin transactions aren't. You may be wrongly charged twice with a banking system, but you can inform the bank about that and you are most likely reimbursed for it. On the other hand, in the event that somebody wrongly sent Bitcoin twice to somebody else, that can't be reversed anymore. This isn't technically what double-spending in Bitcoin is all about, though.

You cannot be "double charged" when spending bitcoin, outside of using a malicious wallet as ETFbitcoin has said above.

When you send bitcoin from one address to another, the transaction knows which bitcoin to spend not based on the address they are currently present in, but based on the previous transaction which created those bitcoin outputs in the first place. Even if you have 100 BTC on one address and spend 0.01 BTC of those bitcoin, none of the other 99.99 BTC will have the same previous transaction as the 0.01 BTC you spent, meaning the transaction you made spending 0.01 BTC cannot be repeated or used again in order to double charge you.

Double charging in fiat is when a malicious or bugged receiver pulls two sets of fiat from the spender. Double spending in bitcoin is when a malicious spender sends the same coin to two places, although obviously it will only ever end up in one of those places.

Double charge (charged twice for same transaction) and double spend (using same UTXO/money on two different transaction) is different though. Double charge is essentially impossible on Bitcoin, unless you use buggy wallet which create 2 transaction which have identical receiver/amount (excluding change address).

I had lot of experiences with cards and digital pay wallets payments stuck due to the server issues between the payment processor and banks and due to lot of reasons. On few occasions I have to wait for few hours or forced to show my personal debit message to the merchant showing that I paid you and money got debited.

With bitcoin the case is different if the transaction achieved one confirmation then that is the end of the story there is no way to reverse it practically.

Double spending is common with local bank instead. I have never done a transaction and got double spend in BTC, even there was a day I tried to make transaction with about 0.009 BTC and that was all I wanted to send at once so I initiated the transaction first with my trustapp but saying pending but I m still having the btc in my wallet was just surprised what was happening. So I tried sending same amount to same wallet they it refuses.

Now taking of bank double charged you, to me it has happened almost in every month or so, but with the type of account I m holding I got immediately reversed without waiting for 24hrs or more.
My advise to you is to visit your bank withdraw the amount you planned to used for the week and keep save in your house maybe anytime you would want to visit the shopping mall go with the cash otherwise most of shopping center are not considerate you could get disgrace with what would happen to you.

Most exchange uses 3 or above confirmations to make sure no one would double-spend the transaction and even one confirmation will need huge power to reverse or to double-spend the transaction but only transaction with RBF.

Before there were some online shops that I heard accepting BTC with 0 Confirmations they were bankrupt due to this issue and they learn that is why they now wait for 3 confirmations to make sure the transaction is irreversible.

I have no experience like that but there is one reason that it causes double charges and that is when you are increasing your fees to make the highest priority. I made that once or twice, if you will set it to the lowest fee for example $1 and it takes a longer time to wait for the confirmations. But because you want it to arrive instantly, you pay an additional fee of another $1 or $2 in order to speed up the confirmation. Though the scenario is making you pay more than that regular fee, perhaps this is a solution for impatient people, however, I don't see it was a doubled charge but it is because we wanted it to happen.

Double spending isn't an issue if you wait for at least 1 (preferably 2) confirmations.

This was more of a problem when Bitcoin first came out, as a user could send a transaction with one client and load the previous blockchain into another client.

Yes,  you are totally right, because no digital currency has or can ever offer you the level of financial independency and security Bitcoin does to those who hodl it, and mostly in decentralized wallets where they have sole control over their money unlike banks. Bitcoin transactions can never be double charged, but that doesn't mean it can't be hack or frozen for those who stores it in centralized exchange such as "Binance". But however,  it's still far better compared to fiat as it is borderless and has no limit to  which amount one can transfer per day, week or month, just like most banks

I have had a similar experience but the reverse was the case, where I visited a supermarket and apart all my purchase, on getting to my location all my two times payment which was made on the supermarket was reversed to my account which I realized few days after the purchase and I was wondering where the error was coming from.

I have never encountered such an issue with any crypto transaction since I was introduced into the crypto community, it's just a high gas fee of eth back then... I have never been overcharged or double-charged before with crypto, and I think it's impossible unless it's something one will authorize by him with a smart contract call. if not it's nearly impossible.

Since I have not used any crypto card before I don't know if any users have encountered such using the card.

        In my consciousness, Bitcoin will unequivocally get better and better in the near future.

        I know most people have had some unpleasant experiences with bank transactions, like that of the kiwi bank double charged customers

 I had similar harsh experience with my bank.
      
         Good day my friends. On the 13th of January 2022, I went to a supermarket and bought goods that were about $130 in my local currency. I paid with my debit card and got debited. On getting home that day, I received another debit of $130 from the same supermarket I had just left. I rushed to the supermarket and complained, but all they could point to was a network glitch, claiming that the problem was not from their end and that I should contact my financial institution.

        I went to the bank and filed a complaint. I was told to wait 48 hours and the money would be reversed. I waited, and the money was reversed in 28 hours, less than the proposed hour. I have carried out lots of Bitcoin transactions but have not been double charged like my experience with the bank.

        Bitcoin Double-spending: Double-spending is a potential flaw in a digital cash scheme in which the same single digital token can be spent more than once. This is possible because a digital token consists of a digital file that can be duplicated or falsified.
Apart from the Double-spending problem of Bitcoin which is not very much difficult because a transaction verification mechanism (Blockchain) has been developed to combat this problem.

       Since 2019, when I got into Bitcoin, I have not even read or seen any Bitcoin user complaining of having been double charged after sending Bitcoin to a Bitcoin wallet address. That confirms how Bitcoin transactions can not be compared to transactions that are based on a centralized system. Bitcoin will even grow from better to best in the future.

Kind regards, Dr.Bitcoin_Strange 👺