Pff... So even if I said I would answer... Seeing this 2 months later doesn't make it better...
Ok so what is wrong with your post:
-Use of biased and political language. Using words like "multiculturalism" or "patriarchy" or "libertarianism" is a very bad idea. It simply doesn't mean anything objectively and is not a neutral vocabulary. You want to say lots of different nationalities or cultures manage to leave together peacefully? Say that lots of different nationalities or culture manage to live together peacefully. Using the world "multiculturalism" refers to the Western situation where a majoritary culture is forced to cohabit with different foreign cultures. Depending on who is reading the world, it will mean either a good or a bad thing.
-You put far too much different ideas in one post so there is no way to adress it. In the same sentence you talk about genders, cultures, religions, economy, institution and complex sociological phenomenon like alienation. How the hell can anyone answer to that unless he agrees with you?
-There is a global strong positive bias in your post. You say "this happens, and it's incredibly good". You use only positive wording without much self-criticism. This is not a neutral ground and so can't be a good way to discuss with someone disagreeing with you.
-You put the emphasis on ideologies and not on facts. You never say that anything positive is happening from an objective point of view. There is not a single facts in your post? Like participation in this bottom up democracy, number of debates hold, types of bills passed, education and freedom given... Of course there are parts of the subject in the video but that's not what you write. What you write is "this is good". That's all.
In short maybe I was a bit too violent for nothing and I present you sincere apologies for being so agressive at start. But your post is the speech of a progressive socialist, for progressive socialist. It's not a base ground for discussion and it's a bit cliché.
Though it sure is impossible to discuss with most people here I believe after 3 years hanging out there.
Topic: Has Rojava successfully established democratic confederalism? (Read 170 times)
Maybe it sounds cliche because it is. Did you watch the video? Have you even read Bookchin? Rojava seems like someone created a society from scratch and organized the entire thing according to all of these idealist principles.
What doesn't mean anything? I felt like it was all addressed in detail in the video.
Women's rights- Women are fully at the table in Rojava. Every commune must be led by 1 man and 1 woman. HPC (substitute for police) are trained in feminism. They have women's commissions that handle peacemaking in regards to patriarchy or patriarchal violence. Women must be 40% involved in any peacemaking decision. Women are 70% involved in the economy. I could go on and on.
Libertarianism-There is no state and all decision-making happens from the bottom up. Democratic con-federalism actually means a stateless democracy. We are not talking about the American definition of libertarianism (even though they could live outside of a commune freely in Rojava), we are talking about the absence of state authority.
Socialism-T Everything is done on a local level instead of national level like socialists states. Communes (small neighborhoods) function more like families by buying most of their materials in bulk and taking care of each other. Everyone pays into a community fund and can use it if they get sick, have death in the family or misfortune (local social security/safety net). They heavily incentivize cooperatives with a goal of achieving full worker ownership. One type of alienation leftists never talk about is alienation of social funds. People feel like tax money is going to some invisible lazy person on the other side of the country but in this system, people not only see how their work is benefiting the commune, they see how the fund helps their commune because its all done locally.
Multiculturalism- Rojava consists of groups of people from multiple religions and ethnic groups (Assyrians, Armenians, Kurds, Arabs, sunni, shia, yizidi, christians). Its useful to mention because they coexist peacefully in the middle of a civil war in a part of the world infamous for sectarian violence. Its also noteworthy because it goes against the myth that a society where people look out for one another is only possible through homogeny.
The link is that all of these things are achieved in Rojava's society.
I'd love to actually see real criticism instead of just name-calling. "People like me" are never going to learn what is turning you off if you just tell us you hate us. We mostly see that as the response to rejecting capitalism but I try to assume everyone is honest because I genuinely want to know the source of the hatred. We don't get the chance to have debate because we live in echo chambers within the US. We either avoid politics or talk about it within echo chambers which isn't healthy. Thats why I am here.
To be honest, I've never had a person to the right of me make it past "this made millions of people starve" or "so who are you taking money from?" type arguments and the only other criticism I've seen was from the left with people saying my ideology of smooth transition is too soft and capitalists MUST be killed or they will crush any movement.
What doesn't mean anything? I felt like it was all addressed in detail in the video.
Women's rights- Women are fully at the table in Rojava. Every commune must be led by 1 man and 1 woman. HPC (substitute for police) are trained in feminism. They have women's commissions that handle peacemaking in regards to patriarchy or patriarchal violence. Women must be 40% involved in any peacemaking decision. Women are 70% involved in the economy. I could go on and on.
Libertarianism-There is no state and all decision-making happens from the bottom up. Democratic con-federalism actually means a stateless democracy. We are not talking about the American definition of libertarianism (even though they could live outside of a commune freely in Rojava), we are talking about the absence of state authority.
Socialism-T Everything is done on a local level instead of national level like socialists states. Communes (small neighborhoods) function more like families by buying most of their materials in bulk and taking care of each other. Everyone pays into a community fund and can use it if they get sick, have death in the family or misfortune (local social security/safety net). They heavily incentivize cooperatives with a goal of achieving full worker ownership. One type of alienation leftists never talk about is alienation of social funds. People feel like tax money is going to some invisible lazy person on the other side of the country but in this system, people not only see how their work is benefiting the commune, they see how the fund helps their commune because its all done locally.
Multiculturalism- Rojava consists of groups of people from multiple religions and ethnic groups (Assyrians, Armenians, Kurds, Arabs, sunni, shia, yizidi, christians). Its useful to mention because they coexist peacefully in the middle of a civil war in a part of the world infamous for sectarian violence. Its also noteworthy because it goes against the myth that a society where people look out for one another is only possible through homogeny.
The link is that all of these things are achieved in Rojava's society.
You're making left ideologies seem so stupid and ridiculous, that's a real shame. People like you are the reason no one even tries to discuss left ideologies...
I agree with you here but what do you recommend I say instead of what I said? I actually brought this up in my local socialist group while we were on a service project last week. We talk to each other and our ideas resonate within an echo chamber of people already inclined to agree with us but everyone else thinks we are nuts. This is really the biggest challenge of our movement. The ideas appeal to people but we can't explain them in a way that doesn't come off as crazy. We can't even grow. Even the moon truthers and flat earthers have more traction than we do. I'd love to actually see real criticism instead of just name-calling. "People like me" are never going to learn what is turning you off if you just tell us you hate us. We mostly see that as the response to rejecting capitalism but I try to assume everyone is honest because I genuinely want to know the source of the hatred. We don't get the chance to have debate because we live in echo chambers within the US. We either avoid politics or talk about it within echo chambers which isn't healthy. Thats why I am here.
To be honest, I've never had a person to the right of me make it past "this made millions of people starve" or "so who are you taking money from?" type arguments and the only other criticism I've seen was from the left with people saying my ideology of smooth transition is too soft and capitalists MUST be killed or they will crush any movement.
If so, this could be a blueprint for womens' rights, libertarianism, and socialism in a multicultural society. I am so proud of them for building a progressive society out of nothing, helping to defeat ISIS, and in an area with so much adversity, making serious gains against big government, patriarchy, and worker alienation.
Do you understand how cliché all of this sounds?
It doesn't even mean anything!!! What's the link between women's rights, libertarianism and socialism?? What does "multicultural" means?? Every group is multicultural by essence how is the word remotely useful here??
Oh god I hate leftards so much! Stop blattering your words without any sense!
You're making left ideologies seem so stupid and ridiculous, that's a real shame. People like you are the reason no one even tries to discuss left ideologies...
Quote
I fear they will eventually overrun by the regime, Turks calling them terrorists or capitalists when the US no longer needs them in the fight against ISIS.
Welp, It seems to be happening. Erdogan is ramping up the rhetoric.Quote
“We will begin our operation to free the east of the Euphrates [river] from the separatist organisation within a few days,” he told MPs. “Our target is not the American soldiers – it is the terror organisations that are active in the region.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/12/turkey-primed-to-start-offensive-against-us-backed-kurds-in-syriaQuote
Erdoğan also expressed disappointment that US-backed Kurdish fighters in Syria had not left the town of Manbij, as agreed in a US-Turkish deal brokered this year. “The Americans are not being honest; they are still not removing terrorists [from Manbij],” he said. “Therefore, we will do it.”
Ankara has repeatedly said that Turkey will do what is necessary to protect its security, but has not yet attempted to cross the river, on the eastern bank of which 2,000 US troops are stationed. On Wednesday, a Pentagon spokesman said that any such move would be “unacceptable”.
Ankara has repeatedly said that Turkey will do what is necessary to protect its security, but has not yet attempted to cross the river, on the eastern bank of which 2,000 US troops are stationed. On Wednesday, a Pentagon spokesman said that any such move would be “unacceptable”.
And now Trump is pulling out.
If so, this could be a blueprint for womens' rights, libertarianism, and socialism in a multicultural society. I am so proud of them for building a progressive society out of nothing, helping to defeat ISIS, and in an area with so much adversity, making serious gains against big government, patriarchy, and worker alienation.
This is direct democracy with governance coming from the individual level. Individuals dictate up the traditional hierarchal pathways. Communes have much more power than the councils.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDnenjIdnnE
42 minute video explaining how the entire system functions.
I fear they will eventually overrun by the regime, Turks calling them terrorists or capitalists when the US no longer needs them in the fight against ISIS. The bottom left of the political compass is the rarest, but also the most free. The end of the video talks about how this system could be humanity's best hope and be duplicated elsewhere, even the US. For that reason, I fear that capitalists will see to it that they fail before people find out about it because this system would be a threat to power hungry governments and capitalists all over the world.
This is direct democracy with governance coming from the individual level. Individuals dictate up the traditional hierarchal pathways. Communes have much more power than the councils.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDnenjIdnnE
42 minute video explaining how the entire system functions.
I fear they will eventually overrun by the regime, Turks calling them terrorists or capitalists when the US no longer needs them in the fight against ISIS. The bottom left of the political compass is the rarest, but also the most free. The end of the video talks about how this system could be humanity's best hope and be duplicated elsewhere, even the US. For that reason, I fear that capitalists will see to it that they fail before people find out about it because this system would be a threat to power hungry governments and capitalists all over the world.
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