Topic: Hashfast mining without shipping customer gear? (Read 6806 times)

I apologize for making the supposition that it may be possible for hashfast to mine with customer's equipment. We have no evidence that was the case. So under threat of legal action, i will modify any posts that supposedly allege that and leave only factual posts. I also encourage everyone else to do the same.

They were in fact mining without shipping customers equipment. That was confirmed by them.

A much better test would involve mining the entire historical blockchain.
That is, setup a pool server that feeds jobs with known blocks, and make sure you find them all.
This is no different than "real-world mining" except that you are doing it with historical data that miners would have gotten before each of those blocks.

Unrelated to this, I see no reason manufacturers shouldn't be mining mainnet as they do burnin as long as they are honest with the customers.

I have my tracking number, but not from HashFast (FedEx called me to confirm some details on the shipment).
I presume this means they've begun shipping, even if they haven't given out the tracking numbers yet...

@HashFast_CL
Where are our tracking numbers?

We have internal test systems.  A few of them, like the Baby Jet in our office that is part of the Eligius mining pool, are doing actual mining.  This is to do a full, end to end, system test.  None of these test systems will be shipped to our customers.  We will not use customer systems for our own purposes, especially mining.

Best,

-HashFast Community Liaison

Fair enough - locked.

Thank you for clarifying.

I operate Eligius.

Since I'm not in the business of disclosing private datas, I'll simply point out that 1Nbq2XZaRsKknf5fcT2wTXvBS31PaUWSeX is NOT Hashfast.

-wk

The user just added another 40TH/s.

Holy crap thats a lot of power on one account. I'd say they wouldn't be stupid enough to not just generate a few dozen wallet addresses to use with eligius instead of one big one.... but then I think about everything else they have done and said. Cocky and stupid, Hashfast!

F I want 150THs ....

The default for the antminers had btcguild, a bitman-pool (testnet?), and one other (50 something pool), but not Eligius.  I had to put the entries for Eligius and BitMinter into my ants.

I would tend to agree. But keeping an eye out just because there are so many inconsistencies in hashfast's timeline.

It could be possible to be antminers but i very much doubt that. Their public batches were published right in these forums. No one single person bought that much from them. But again, thats publicly posted orders who know how much antminer sold privately.

Edit - Did the math and that would be around ~800 antminers.

Well... now that they have posted link to their test machine, I am willing to believe that 160TH/s address is not HF's, but some Antminer farm.

The test machine seems to be running at 700GH/s which if I run the numbers again... if we get the MPP on Feb 3rd, moves the loss to 16BTC/BJ.  While that sucks, it is less than the 27 BTC I had calculated earlier at 500GH/s.

I see they have finally seen this thread? So yes is the answer to my question in the title. Still questionable as to who owns that large account. We will know when they ship.

https://twitter.com/HashFast/status/416810773290430464

You forgot to add...

Use of shill accounts to deliberately deceive customers and squash decent.
Deliberate and frequent ninja ex post facto TOS changes.
Selling January equipment at October prices knowing full well they wouldn't deliver until the end of December.
Promising BTC refunds (jury still out on this one)

Anything I forget?

Not sure buddy, I don't control what they do.. :/

If its not them, then its not them.

When the company says they are shipping on the 21st, then removes a video, then goes silent for another 6 days, what do you propose we do?

Thats deff not them.. you guys seriously have nothing else to do, they are not mining with customers hardware.. but well no matter what I say or do it wont matter.. because ill get flamed, some other crap .. etc.. so well continue on guys.. not sure what I say to help..

Crap.. small edit.. while I was talking to a few people on Eligius pool.. a lot of these are in the wild now btw.. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/pre-ship-again-sold-out-group-buy-5-315-btc-bitmain-antminer-180gh-300-units-383486

LOL

Busted. 

Wait so which lie should we believe?  On the 20th  the board was "performing marvelously".
https://twitter.com/HashFast/status/414178131482640384

That would be true if they had a habit of actually telling their customers the truth.

unfortunately...

Looks like we've been victims of Hanlon's razor in regards to believing HashFast was mining with their customer's hardware. Turns out they've been unable to create a reliable PCB for the chip and are trying revision 2 now. Looks like they couldn't mine even if they wanted to... yet

No, this address has been mining since 10/6/2013 when HF was still scratching its ass doing nothing.

Do you think this could be HF too? http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1D5FhoiuLMJJ43BCMGidwvbKWfr71g1vH9

Same here.

Blast the network with customer machines, get the reward until the difficulty catches up, then deliver the miners to the customers at the high difficulty.

Need some good detective work to find the IP of the suspected miner.  Link it to the company.  Then get the attorneys involved.  This could be good, especially since this case would cross state lines and become a federal case.

*watching*

Not sarcasm... and not a shill.  Just calling it as I see it.

It is clear that HF can be very productive when its THEIR profit on the line.

There is a sick fascination for how efficiently they are minimizing their losses and maximizing ours. I fully expect that the growth of the eligius address to increase to ~285TH (a complete 550 Baby Jets + the 10TH they started off with).  I think the Rev2 board thing is a smoke screen... they just want to mine the crap out of the machines up until the very last moment of their deadline.  They are looking at >~125BTC a day at full strength, and I don't expect any of them being shipped early.

Edit:  All this speculation turned out to be indeed speculation...  pool operator of eligius confirmed that while wishful thinking that FH had that many boards to ship... they were in actually still developing the PCB.

Stroked out the wrong option for you to make an easier choice.

Umm sarcasm or shill?   You're seriously giving them accolades for how quickly they apparently screwed us?  Do you even re-read before you post this swill?


edit...
Either a) Hashfast has a large number of shill accounts, b) cognitive dissidence is strong in bitcoinia or c) I'm finally going crazy.

Occam's razor days the most simplest answer is the right one... The simplest answer is that they just now have it working.

Yes ciara apparently is a great company.

Actually bringing that many machines on line that quickly is a testament to their protocol and design.  Some one is very efficient and kicking ass.

Ciara can "test" systems for them. To them its not much different from a desktop pc and certainty less power consumption than a server.

Note the laptop was named ciara-one.

How did they just happen to come up with enough space/power to host 300 BJ's if it wasn't their plan from the beginning?  It's not like they can just hook them up in the back room and plug them into the wall.

We simply can't know when they started mining.  They very easily could have simply switched addresses on the Eligius pool, and what you are seeing are the batches that come online when they switch.

Lets just say... I am skeptical that they had any meaningful hashpower until a couple of days ago.

I am now pretty confident that http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1Nbq2XZaRsKknf5fcT2wTXvBS31PaUWSeX is Golden Nonces... If I am being charitable... I might speculate this could be IceDrill, but I doubt it.

It looks to me like 3 sets of 100xBabyJets running at 500GH/s.  250 more machines will complete Batch1.

No you are giving them too much credit. I do believe that they waited until the silicon showed up to continue development on ther rest of the system in november. On the other hand KNC had everything ready for the silicon. Hashfast is just incompetent and dishonest to put it politely.

I find it hard to believe that every TH has been accounted for since October.  We're only talking about ~300TH, added over a period of time would not have been noticed as the network easily fluctuates more than that.

The evidence doesn't bear this out.  Hashpower added to the network is accounted for back in October to now.

The only current evidence points to them recently having a working board.
http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1Nbq2XZaRsKknf5fcT2wTXvBS31PaUWSeX

Please consider the following points:

• Hashfast has almost assuredly employed shill accounts in an underhanded way i.e. iCebreaker et al.
• Prior to selling out batch 1, there was no mention of the Dec. 31st date.  Up until they missed their end of October delivery schedule it was all 'on schedule'.
• Official communication coming out of Hashfast has been calculated and grossly misleading.  Just look at their official blog for all of the examples you need.
• Hashfast has aggressively and repeatedly modified their TOS in their favor.

Based simply on the above 4 points, it is clear that we are dealing with an extremely underhanded company.

What proof do we have that the equipment wasn't actually completed on the original timeline? The video(s) could have been filmed at any time.  They simply could have left one unit hashing at their S.F. offices for when customers dropped by.  The rest most likely have been happily hashing away since October.

Honestly, I've never jumped on the "Hey, they're hashing with our equipment!" bandwagon before, but this whole experience has me completely convinced that we are dealing with the most dishonest company yet in the bitcoin space. Even Avalon shipped their first batch.

fat chance. lol. who opts for the "host my miner" option? i have yet to figure out what person this benefits.

It will be dispelled when they ship and this address keeps (or stops) hashing.

http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1Nbq2XZaRsKknf5fcT2wTXvBS31PaUWSeX

Impressively this guy is still growing, and coincidentally hashfast is still not shipping. This address added 30TH overnight lol.

Gateway could of course dispel (or confirm) a lot of this speculation by posting an uncensored version of his cgminer photo from the visit.

Though I suppose if the address didn't match, people could just further speculate that they changed addresses.

I've got some loose millage here.  Bob, come 'ere with that broom and sweep it up, would 'ja?

I hope they are hashing with the hardware. That would mean the difficulty won't increase after they ship them  . I also hope they pay any mined BTC to the owners, similar to the way KnC gave BTC to the people that bought hosting from them.

  I wont be surprised if they were doing this, hashfast is a shady company,  expect the worst from these guys, they wont be delivering anything anytime soon and will try to push for USD refunds...

This is probably a little clearer.  

http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1Nbq2XZaRsKknf5fcT2wTXvBS31PaUWSeX

Are you aware of anyone else who might have suddenly come into 80+TH of capability in the last 3 days? When 5 TH of hash power showed up everyone said it was Avalon, but I was skeptical.  Turned out it was.   Learned my lesson... Occam's razor.

I still haven't seen any evidence that you could make these conclusions with.

Yes.  Though the more reputable companies make it clear how long this testing phase will be (or they collect a mining address for the customer), to avoid the obvious and apparent conflict of interest.

is this standard practice? mining companies using equipment before shipping?

https://blockchain.info/tx/89a3b379bd33ed4b060d81b6705dc3104786a18445451060ed78bff17be0eb0f

This is an interesting transaction, as it links other keys presumably in the same wallet as the owner and the only output from this address. Getting sleepy here so may do some further digging tomorrow.

Interestingly the time frames match very well for this account.

https://blockchain.info/address/1Nbq2XZaRsKknf5fcT2wTXvBS31PaUWSeX?offset=50&filter=0

These are the payouts to  1Nbq2XZaRsKknf5fcT2wTXvBS31PaUWSeX . They start on 12/6 with larger payouts starting on 12/8 . Maybe a coincidence that boards were flying out of the oven at 12/7 (http://t.co/SYwUPJ943a) . Dun dun dunnnnnn.. the plot thickens. We shall see what happens tomorrow.

Mileage on a Bitcoin miner? You can't be so fucking retarded. It's not a car, it's a miner. They generating Bitcoins with the hardware we paid for. There is no point ensuring that it will work in the "long term" "in 6 months this device will be obsolete.

Some burn-in testing makes sense. ~24h or so. It is good form to do this on testnet of course.

Otoh, I'd be fine with HF doing burn in testing for a year with my machine on the real network as long as customers receive every coin mined by the machine. Call it hosting if you will

^^ possibly the dumbest thing I've read on this forum.   

Ah yes however, you won't be taking the profits in the backend.  That is HF's fist your feeling (sans lube!)

Fuck that's easy, as long as they can get away with it...

Was it possible to add your mining pool details when ordering from hashfast?

Actually, the problem is in the backend.

So for all you trolls, how long should a manufacturer test equipment? Its clear we aren't getting any gear this year.

They touted high speed pcb manufacturing at Dec 8th.
They touted you can hash with off the shelf PSU and water cooler unit, so no other delays after getting pcbs assembled.

So is 21 days+ acceptable to test mining equipment. Is 90 ? 180 days? Where is the official troll cutoff?

Is that the long run where HF gives clients a 10 day warranty?  Or the long run where folks paid 50+ BTC and will mine back less than 10 with a single BJ.  Ya long run considerations are pretty irrelevant in this day and age where mining profits are retardedly front end loaded.

b/c u want untested hardware ... always a good choice. bitch later.

I'm starting to think it's both of them. But the troll activity here is incredible.

So you mean the bitcoin difficulty is increasing correct?
Well i would prefer for hashfast to hold my machine as long as it takes,to make sure its 100% tested and certified for consumer use,so there is no problems in the long run.

^^^ To funny. Keep that coming, please.

Exactly. Testnet exists. But either trolls will be trolls, or people are genuinely stupid in here.

In addition, HF only warranties the BJ for 10 days. If they think the lifetime of the BJ is that short, then mining on them might even cause some to fail as soon as they arrive or shortly after.

Gee someone should make a test net that will allow testing of units without hitting the live network.  God if only someone somewhere had thought of this before all these people started making fucking gear....

Are you seriously asking that question? Every day we don't have the miner in our hands is days we aren't mining. Are you thick or just a troll? Seriously.

But you are not loosing millage on a bitcoin miner so whats your point?
What exactly are you loosing out on if they test your machines?

You buy a new taxi car. Your dealership uses it as a taxi for 11 days before you can pick it up. Your  brand new car has 20k miles before you even get it. Let me add, you also work as a taxi driver and you notice less customers since you bought your car.  Do you not complain?

*Edit - modified scenario

It's another point pro us in court, dear.

(that smile...)

So do you expect them not to test your machines before they deliever them?
Do you really want none working asic miners thats been untested?
They are bound to hash on your machines why even worry about this?

No, just people registered with the only purpose of arguing against me with the same timeframe of the other account of yours you used in the other thread and with your activity. But hell, yes, i'm just being paranoid. I'm starting to getting used to this, i could become the new Icebreaker.

You're just so ignorant that you think that anyone who argues against you and in favor of HF is a "puppet".

Edit: here's another miner that started around Dec 20th http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1E3kbVQ8v3F5Ctd7yKJGj8nU8Ut8S4NyeS

wow that guy or company had a very merry xmas, unlike us hashfast customers.

And here is our HF puppet. I see that you didn't invested in prestigious accounts, HF. Do you know that you can buy them?

Thats why the title is posed as a question. I posted some data that makes it seem like its more than possible. They are free to refute. I will be watching the eligius.st hashrate when they do ship(if ever).

This could be HF. Check out the jump in hash rate around the time HF would have finished assembly.
http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1Nbq2XZaRsKknf5fcT2wTXvBS31PaUWSeX

Just because they have a picture of a BJ mining doesn't mean that they are going to ship a customer that same miner.

Good, they can keep the miners where they are and refund us. (trollface at thinking how easy it will be to prove this in court if you are right, by simply looking at what they did @ ciara, by supposing that they where this naive).

They said they built 400 BJs. 400*422=168.8TH/s. Thats even closer. However, I doubt that they are mining on customer gear.

You show us on  Dec 8th you were assembling boards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rl6L8nt3Hc

You show us that you are mining on the live network around  Dec 20th at full speed:



Your webmaster who happens to be the webmaster of eligius.st posts some pics as well from his visit:
http://eligius.st/~gateway/news/quick-visit-hashfast-hq




It looks to me like from the official hashfast picture, you are also mining on eligius from the long user name(public key address).

Eligius hash total on December 20: ~950TH
Eligius hash total on December 26: ~1130TH

eligius added around 180TH since the 20th when no other large manufacturer was releasing product.

Original 550 Babyjets Batch 1 at 400GH = 220 TH

That is pretty goddam close.

We are now to assume that you are hashing with Babyjets on the mainnet since the 20th from this.
Unfortunately your extremely poor communication skills and performance so far will leave us to assume the worst.

Added:
http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1Nbq2XZaRsKknf5fcT2wTXvBS31PaUWSeX
This is an eligius account that is of interest that has been adding a ton of hashpower recently.

Update:
http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1KSZMq1L9ZWEBKEHuW7ACXWZJYdxiTdaVt
This is the official account they are mining* on.

source - https://twitter.com/HashFast/status/416810773290430464

Updated 12/31

Changed title because of legal threats from Hashfast. Also reworded original text to remove supposedly libelous information at Hashfast's request. They claim to not have mined on customer equipment. However, they have mined* without shipping customer's equipment.

*Mining is defined in this case as participating on eligius mining pool and earning BTC for work submitted.