Topic: HashFast thread derailment part 3 (Read 3450 times)

Try replying to the KNC post above. Can you? I have to assure you most people bought when they claimed September shipping, and they were late, but by a few days, with hundreds of GH/s increase.

Where is the Monarch?

There aren't any irritated CoinTerra customers, not a single one— as far as I can tell, and I even asked. CoinTerra has, apparently, made right by their customers— at least for now.

The only thing I disallowed there was your all caps red bolded whatever-the-heck-that-was and people bringing other vendors into the discussion (which was, the same thing I did in the HF threads).


Okay, so who are you then? There is no mystery who I am. I think some transparency might resolve some of your complaints far better than what appears your preferred direction— of silencing anyone who is concerned, afraid, or angry from expressing their irritation or uncertainty.

Like Josh @ BFL says,"buy our product & trust us,we'll get it to you when WE'RE ready.........we NEVER promised you ROI or a profit..............."

This preorder crap is getting crazy..........if they're late,SAY SO!!!!!!!!!!!

If it's going to be overpowered,SAY SO!!!!!!!!!!

What the hell is wrong with good ole COMMUNICATION................is it outdated   Am I "behind the times already"

I don't see how the responsibility of the HashFast threads getting derailed is a moderator's fault or a customer's fault.

People are asking questions and getting ignored. HashFast_CL is posting to the thread and repeatedly not answering the question. What the hell is expected is going to happen next? People are going to try to guess and then disagree and then get into pages of arguments having nothing to do with "custom hardware" and everything to do with "what is the answer to this question that HashFast was talking about 1 month ago, but has never spoken of again."

We see people ask about the refund policy, which HashFast described back when they wanted money. Now, when asked for clarification, no answer.

We see people ask about the MPP timing - when will we get it, HashFast sold MPP at sale time, revisited it to acknowledge it began retroactively in October, but then absolutely no answer. So, they were talking about it and then abruptly stopped.

TBH, I wish the thread would be less of the bickering and just contained actual answers from HashFast on their intentions, as well as they know it, even if to say they don't know, but they are thinking about it.

This is a pretty apt comment:

But wtf - there is an argument about how obnoxious the noise is? It doesn't matter what the content of the noise is when there is very little signal. HashFast doesn't have its own forums and stopped posting to its own blog. I get that they're busy building the product and are panicked because it's behind schedule, and I understand that - but then to step in and join the argument about the size and shape of the noise when they are the ONLY credible source of signal? If the company itself is not willing to provide signal, who is supposed to do that?

Obama and The Wookie not only listen in but also film my sexy bod during shower-time.  That's fine, because everyone knows you waive your Constitutional rights when you use water, just like when you leave your house (waterways and roads are Constitution-free zones under Federal jurisdiction, just as George Washington intended.)

Yes, you have belatedly seen fit to somewhat moderate, instead of blatantly encouraging lulzy chaos and disinformation within, the HashFast thread.  A Christmas miracle!  Huzzah!   

What I am "talking about" is the unfortunate resemblance between the utterly useless Activemining thread and increasingly useless HashFast thread. 

Both represent a failure of moderation.

Unfortunately, the supposed rules against repetitive posting, +1s, trolling, etc. are still selectively enforced.

You let posters get away with many things on the HashFast thread you actively disallow on the Cointerra thread.  That's hypocrisy.

How much absurd speculation and FUD about 'shipping empty boxes,' 'is iCEBREAKER actually Eduardo,' and the like must we be subjected to before you lift a finger?

How many times do we really need to hear cedivad kvetch about refunds and crow about his lawsuit?   


And now you join in, hoping to zoom-and-enhance the deleted board assembly video for some key bit of Perry Mason worthy clincher?

That's pathetic.  And unbecoming conduct for an industry-savvy moderator guy who knows better.   

What the hell are you talking about?

I removed pages of people complaining about _other_ companies to another thread precisely to allow hashfast customers to continue to discuss their predicament (though— not with much progress sadly, considering the lack of information from hashfast itself).

It's not a promotion, it's removal of offtopic stuff, and I even received PM thanks for it from some of the other hashfast customers who have silently been trying to follow the thread... The subject matter was still generally on-topic for the subforum and clearly touched on some things that some people felt the need to vent about.

I can assure you that were I intending to punish the HashFast company it would be via mechanisms more effective then helping other hashfast customers continue to discuss how screwed they are without the thread being made unreadable by agent provocateurs or whatever the hell trolling rubbish goes on around here.

Wherever did you get these ideas in any case? "But he doesn't care, as he is too emotionally invested in harming HashFast in any way possible" —    do you also think that obama personally listens in on you when you shower?

Ice -
I don't consider myself a bitter customer yet, but we are totally flying blind.  They are supposedly close to delivering, but they clearly aren't following the game plan most of the successful asic deployments have followed.

Hashfast hasn't updated their twitter feed and seems to not monitor this forum except with the community liaison who seems to have any more information than we do, and doesn't have the authority to answer any questions.

Just out of curiosity what do expect HF customers to be doing?

nobody cares about hashfast, they are shit.

I disagree, but unfortunately must admit when moderators like Gmaxwell refuse to enforce their own rules, then start violating them, it ruins the old, information-based approach to the Custom Hardware sub.

Thanks to Gmaxwell's butthurt and resulting shitty moderation, the HashFast thread now looks like the Activemining trainwreck.

A tiny but loud minority of disgruntled customers (cedivad, perezozo, gmaxwell, and a couple others) have been allowed to ruin a thread that served to provide information for hundreds of actual and thousands of potential HashFast customers.

Just as the Activemining trainwreck reflects poorly on the board and community as a whole, Gmaxwell's intentionally trashed HashFast thread serves as a beacon, to warn those interested in facts and logic away to seek greener pastures.

Gmaxwell's sub rules say 'don't make a ton of duplicate theads' but instead of deleting off-topic trolling/derailment/harassment, he promotes such rubbishy noise to independent threads.

Source: this thread.  And more.

How does hurting Hashfast customers (by allowing their thread to be ruined) in any way achive Gmaxwell's goal of punishing HashFast the company?

It doesn't.  But he doesn't care, as he is too emotionally invested in harming HashFast in any way possible.  Like a bitter ex-wife.   

And since you haven't returned it for RMA, you're what Josh considers "a happy customer". BFL has *a lot* of "happy customers".

My Jala ordered@7ghs is running at > 50% error rate with 6 ghs and your support tells me to send it back at my costs (germany - usa) to get it repaired, knowing that my shipping costs will just make things even worse.

When I ordered you said new orders will be shipped in 2 months. After 6 months you shipped mine, finally. No need to say anything more.

Compare that to KNC.

 Why do you keep spending time and money to advertise on such an irrelevant forum that you regard so poorly ?

Let's see you put your money where your mouth is:


$5700 per week on advertising on this forum. Clearly you don't really believe Bitcointalk is irrelevant, or you wouldn't be dumping that kind of money into it.

This thread is way more interesting than the hash fast thread.

Now if only they would post some information somewhere.  Their website... Twitter... The forum... Sky writing...  Telepathy... Whatever... I'm not particular.

Any clairvoyants on the boards?

Pass the popcorn and Merry Christmas, fellas!

Please just leave the bitcoins community alone. You've got to be the most hated person in the bitcoins world. Why you post is beyond me..

Fixed but well put

Lol.

They're still selling product based on Nov/Dec for shipping.

http://www.butterflylabs.com/monarch/

Don't feed tard trolls please!

ITT: A case study on cognitive dissonance provided by subject Josh "2 more weeks" Zerlan

I feel kind of bad for the guy now. I just imagine him sitting at his computer on Christmas Eve desperately typing out these insults trying to hold onto his delusion that BFL has not been an absolute failure and borderline scam. KNC's ability to bring a 28NM ASIC miner to market in one quarter must really be giving him a cognitive dissonance flare up...

I'm nobody's fool, so quit trying this crap with me, i'm certainly not taking you for one.

The quote you keep throwing around was from Andreas's very first post in the forum. They hadn't finalised anything at that point. Originally they wanted to make an approx $5k machine where upon the first 500 paid x amount up front, and then the rest at a later date, and then a following 500 would pay at the later date.

They were putting the feelers out to see if 1,000 would bite, at which point they could work with a reputable ASIC design consultancy - ORSoC they had spoken to and poss hit the funding target required with a viable amount of numbers. They knew a figure of approx $5m was required to breakeven and fund NRE for silicon, components, manufacturing, labour, etc..

ORSoC had already worked with high frequency trading platforms and had followed Bitcoin with interest, but any idea lacking any substantial volume of potential interest to cover base costs, no dice.

Marcus (ORSoC) had already said screw the original idea if you want to do this you need to aim for 28nm straight away, as it's only a matter before someone else competent will. Mars was only ever a proof of concept, but they aimed to sell it at one point with a summer delivery, although again that had nothing to do with the original summer quote. Mars became surplus to requirement build wise and would have only have slowed the main project down. Jupiter was first suggested as a 250 Gh/s unit, then 350, then 400, before arriving at 550. Real engineers state targets they know they can reach, not best case simulations as other factors come into play w.r.t. to power and heat, only when something of statistical significance suggest otherwise can you with a degree of confidence claim otherwise. Optimistic BS that the crowd want to hear  is marketing, not engineering.

The Summer delivery date was never factored at the point of sale when the order book was opened. That's the crucial difference.

Entering a thread putting the feelers out to gauge a reaction to a hypothetical intention is no committal. When you take money and lay the deal out is what matters, both in terms of integrity and legality.

Claiming you will deliver a 600gh/s PCI-E based 28nm using a fab with known yield issues at 28 in December whilst taking payment was a contract, not a hypothetical statement to generate interest. There's a difference, and it's December btw...

Unfortunately evolution takes time. You can't expect a dancing money to turn into an intelligent human being overnight.

The problem with those stupid techniques is that they only work for a limited time on a limited population. Ice simply gave up. You should evolve as well, josh.

I can't say I am surprised. After all he is a cheat and a crook.

Classic. When you're losing the argument, resort to insults.

I am not the one making a stupid claim, like: "KNC were months late" and then backing it up with a proof that contain a contradiction within itself.

How can you be so stupid and be still alive?

KNC was 2 months away from taking any orders/customers' money when this statement was made.
It is even mentioned there in the text you just copied.

So, you're saying KNC was lying then?  Please explain this quote if I am wrong:


Let me guess... KNC didn't really post that, right?  Someone else posing as KNC did?

You're the only one talking whack here, my friend, sorry.

No, you were wrong they suggested summer before they even finalised a product offering, generated enough interest to JV with ORSoC, held an open day and opened for sales.

At the point they held an open day and most importantly opened for sales September was on the cards, and uploading a working unit well beyond the promised specs 45 mins before October began was quite the coup de grâce. I was there in person they really did get their shit together in just over 24 hours, and that's a hard act to follow.

When I first contacted them I stated exactly this; "this is a burnt community, make sure you under promise and over deliver." The whole margins thing to shy on the side of what was achievable was always in the cards, they knew precisely what they were doing, as such people are happy.

Perhaps this only a small community in the grand scheme of things and fresh newbie blood exists frequently enough outside the forum to sustain poor business practice, but this has always been the home of Bitcoin and a tarnished rep here will carry fourth...in essence you reap what you sow.

I have no beef with you Josh but you're talking whack above, and you know it.

Dude, why would you assume he has a family 
Who can possibly bear to live with such a person?

i hope your family dies in a car accident tomorrow. merry christmas!

You can't expect a crook to be honest. That is a trait reserved to good and decent people.

Inaba welched on a 1000 BTC bet that he personally made here on the forums:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/a-bfl-asic-1000-btc-bet-that-looks-like-inaba-lost-191600

Why no scammer tag?

MNW earned a scammer tag for the same offense:
http://codinginmysleep.com/et-tu-matt-bitcoin-mag-founder-welches-on-big-bet/

On a side note, I have a 5 BTC bet going myself regarding whether HF will deliver by year's-end.  Should I lose you can be assured I will be paying up, and should I fail to, I will be expecting the tag.

Ask him about his failed power consumption bet and he will just shut up and go to a corner.

Future tense. English motherf***er, do you speak it 

I'm glad I can ruin your Christmas then!  Your hopes and dreams are shattered!  Merry Christmas!

That idiot has some skewed perception of reality, thinking that any sane person would actually buy a BFL product by choice.
Not when the word "BFL" has been turned into a term with a definition meaning:

1. To have something you ordered - delivered so far behind schedule, that it is no longer useful to you. Especially in cases where delays are 100+ days and the manufacturer or reseller is refusing to offer a refund for the goods.
2. Scammed
3. Completely fucked over


BFL is what's wrong with the Bitcoin ASIC industry and I truly hope they go bankrupt.

Merry xmas?

Please honor your bets if you want to have some credibility here!

A service to you in helping generate sales ?

you also charged for your "upgrades". please, please die.

Summer ends Sept 21. They shipped about 5 weeks later. So no, they were not "months" late. And clearly someone who was 6 months late shouldn't be criticizing others.

"Anything else" implies that you've already debunked something.  So far the only thing you've done is continue to spread misinformation and increase the entropy of Bitcointalk. But by all means, please continue the bitchfest in this thread of the same people posting the same shit over and over ad infinitum... you're doing a service to... something.  I think.

Trying to figure out what your 6 months late ~50% increased hashrate has to do with my selective memory and more so what it is supposed to prove against a 34 to 15 Day Late ~120% increase.

Also if you have anything else you'd like debunked please PM me as you are taking this hashfast thread off topic.

You didn't answer the question... does it hurt being wrong all the time?

BFL was 6 months late, not 1 year, unless the calendar has changed in the past 2000  years or so?  November - April = 6 months, not 12 months.  Did you add a few extra months in there to make yourself feel better?


Since you have a selective memory:  BFL promised hashrate 40 GH/s Single. BFL delivered hashrate: 60 GH/s single. And now closer to 70 GH/s.


Sure does.

Not as long as Thermos can make some money from ads!

 The evidence points towards it being a point of pride

By meteorological record-keeping, summer ended on Aug. 31.
By astronomical definition, summer didn't end until the autumnal equinox, which occurred on Sept. 22 in 2013.

I wouldn't call a maximum of 34 Days (using the meteorological date) "months"

If we use the astronomical definition then they were only late by 15 days on their very first deadline (Which they changed not too long after to September), not bad especially when comparing to BFL but then again BFL makes HashFast look good still.

Since Josh likes to pick and choose what he quotes, he should also quote the 250GH Jupiters that they said back then as well, only to be ~500GH in October and now closer to ~650GH.

Looks like someone thought he was clever.

He should be branded a scammer.  He profits from pre-order schemes where others lose out due to their blatant cons.  KNC is the only company worth even considering a pre-order with.

I stand corrected on that point....of course you we're more then  1 year late...and and basically told everyone  "2 more months" for that period of time...big whoop KNC gave me my unit oct 15th. and from the timeline you mention it was to be 250gh for the same price..and I got 555gh for the same price  (1st units we're 4wks late from my lot from your above calculations).....you told me in chat no later then AUG for my april jally ..I got it on Oct 31st Halloween......no option for refund after may 30th or so....yeah KNC is the villain here by being late ..right!

sheeh...

as to my other point...they refund you don't ..they give more hash for free..that same point of time on the post you quote they said there unit would be 250gh they delivered ..as you state correct....550gh or in my case 555gh ..gasp 4wks from the first units (I was in the middle) late...they refunded a 2nd order ...the day before  it shipped in 4hrs...had the refund in my account.

getting thru to you yet?  by the by your RMA button on shoutbox don't work or so people have been stating on here for a month

anyway.....I guess that is a NO on extending your customer transfer option to monarch customers.....too bad...now you have do deal with me some more

alas it was a good product bfl wise.....but this the problem/issue people have with bfl/you ...it is always to "your advantage" attitude and never your fault really is not gonna get BFL anyplace in the future imho....KNC made a mistake by allowing paypal on a www page which I took advantage of on their purchase option...they informed me it was a mistake asked for btc or wire xfer....I did the wire xfer ...my bank screwed up not KNC ..they held my very early order for 6 WEEKS on my word..and the fact I had paid and it was their option mistake and admited such to me and others in that boat...and I only had a weak copy of a pdf of the xfer.from my bank..i was sure after dealing with BFL I was sooo screwed.....in that they had no proof it was my bank error..they could have easlily kicked me to the curb ..they chose "NOT" to do so ...so imho that is what p*ss*s off everyone about BFL ....you never take the high road...never admit mistakes or misinformation....it is always the customers fault...if that had happened with you guy's assuming I did get thru...it would have been "tough luck' NEXT...silly way to try and get repeat customers...

so KNC can muck up some now/in the future whatever....they cut me slack I cut them slack..but the difference is they seem to WANT repeat customers from what I can tell of BFL btc/wire xfer no refunds ..forced updates etc..that shipped has sailed....run to your GH hosting farm as fast as possible before you close the bfl wing of your BTC enterprises..seems to be the theme ......

my 2c worth

Searing


  

I think some folks are more likely to give KnC the benefit of the doubt because they didn't start off with a hard deadline like Oct. X through Y.  The "end of summer" I guess is technically September 22nd (in which case... they were late by a couple of weeks?) :^)

I do remember some teeth gnashing and some hand wringing in the beginning of October in the main KnC thread, but I think that was the normal trolling to get folks to claim refunds so as to reduce the expected hashrate.

Seems counter productive in this thread as there are no refunds currently. If refunds are being offered in a week... it will just lock in a larger loss than just mining with the thing (assuming the 10-day warranty is really just CYA and not an expected shelf life).

I am 100% confident that if you happen to die in the worst possible and painful way, 99% of the people on this forum would not care. Some would even feel a little happier inside.

Does it hurt to be so wrong all the time?

you know a thing or two about sucking it, don't you Josh.

KNC promised summer delivery on there FPGA protot ype of like 80gh or some such..FPGA unit ...forget the name......the btc community said it was too small too high priced..so they changed it to their proof of concept prototype...and did not deliver that in the summer they delivered their orig ASIC as they stated on time org 250gh was the estimated gh....always stated that for the fall ie sept  (or 1 week late for some folk)....so no the ASIC 400gh stated at the end became current ad  (which they gave us the other 550 gh for free mine does 555gh) was on time +/- a week....so don't spread false info.....ASIC we are talking here.

You want to improve BFL allow us to Xfer our forced to upgrade to  Monarch orders...never wanted one...forced to update due to your being way way behind on your estimated timeline....do that and some of us backed into the monarch orders will xfer to others who wish them (even at a loss) and move on...but imho I don't see you getting them to us till april at double the power and prob 1/2 the hash rate....(surprise me and allow transfers on our pre-order monarchs...if they are on time you can have the last laugh with whoever wants to take them off our hands)...anyway should not matter you can transfer the other older asic stuff ..why not monarchs...at least it would be a way out for me from any BFL product....

anyway my 7131.80 KNC unit has made ROI back even when the 900gh of monarch I got backed into arrives as bricks......hashing nicely at 555gh w/o issues....and 2 days before my Saturn shipped in OCT I canceled it and they refunded me in 4 hrs...so yeah..you could learn a lot from KNC especially the REFUND part ..but alas if you refunded then you would not have your new GH cloud hosting service off of our $$$ that should have gone into production way back this last summer....

anyway trying hard not to rag on your a*ss ...you just probably don't fathom how badly you (with benefit of doubt here at least in your own mind) "seem" to have mislead everyone ordering from BFL ...so consider some of the above..if you are on time/on task on the monarch extending xfer to monarchs should not be that big a deal.....(sorry josh but I really really want to dump them...in a somewhat pre-order legit manner..to whomever ...with warranty etc with a legit xfer option)...imho cut us loose with this added option....be to your benefit not like your previous customers with a choice (not like us forced to upgrade folks) will order from you again...no offense but once burnt don't ya know....that and the fact you are btc wire xfer only "no refunds" and KNC and some others are same but in KNC's case 'refunds up to shipping".....anyway I digress

do what you want I've moved on and covered my losses with bfl by about 4x....but if I we're you I'd consider the above....there are a lot of us who want to cut our losses with BFL even if at a loss...we just don't buy you will come thru on time/product/performance....if we are wrong you can have the last laugh and we've sold our monarch pre-orders for a loss and moved on...even if that is the case I doubt either of us in 2 month hindsight would regret the actions...at that point in time.

my 2c worth

Searing

(heh really really surprise me and everyone else and 'un-ban' me from shoutbox on BFL while your at it...I assume the odds are the same as my above suggestion)

Searing

Do you just like not read the first post of KNCminer or are you just a troll and/or liar?

Here, let me quote the relevent part for you (bolded for your pleasure):

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1771040


KNC was months late.  Suck it.

You are incorrect, sir. They said all of batch 1 will be in-hand by 15 Oct. They went approx 2 weeks over that mark. 2 weeks lost me about $1,000, but it could have been worse.

haha you are such a douche it hurts. get the fuck out of here.

 * Mumbles something about COINTELPRO tactics - Attempting to discredit these very forums while contributing advertising revenue supporting the forums - Cognitive dissonance *

 Still looking good to ship a closed-loop, water-cooled, PCIe-card-form-factor 600GH/s 28nm Bitcoin mining product in volume by end of March 2014 ?

yes and first workings tests on 19 december ..... ( that's on their website ), really funny when you see what they promised in august  

October? So 2 days after we meet and you was sure they would have never shipped? Right. Noted.

Keeping the SNR low with zero or almost zero informations seems to be the new trend from BFL/HF. I guess that it makes sense, usually not giving bad news should calm everyone down.

They promised "September" delivery and didn't start delivering until October 4th.

Shouldn't you be posting about more delays for the Monarchs on the BFL Forums?

Ironic how you would come on their thread riddled with sympathy.

And I was right... KNC was late.  They promised summer delivery and didn't deliver until, what... October?

You are the prime reason for what is wrong with the entire ASIC industry. Go back to your cave.

Hey josh, how are you doing? Have you tried to install the blockchain app on your android yet? Do you still need lessons?

You and the trolls like you are the explicit example of who's fault it is.