Hashflare BTC estimates/payout values WRONG

buwaytress

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Quote from: PeZ on May 29, 2018, 12:33:13 AM

Currently Hashflare users are holding onto only 16% of their payout. It's projected to get worse and at some point the contracts will either be suspended or cancelled.

With the high difficulty and low value of BTC, I would warn people against any kind of BTC mining, not just cloud mining.

You're talking about two very different things here, I feel. Telling people they should only contribute to securing the network when it's profitable sort of defeats the long-term objective for miners, which is profitability. If you think about it, the more secure the network, the more unlikely it is that anyone can ever attack it successfully, the more valuable the network becomes, the better this reflects in BTC price.

Cloud mining is a sham at worst, misleading at best. But mining itself is quite another beast on its own, and not everyone does it with the same immediate need for income gratification.

PeZ

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Currently Hashflare users are holding onto only 16% of their payout. It's projected to get worse and at some point the contracts will either be suspended or cancelled.

With the high difficulty and low value of BTC, I would warn people against any kind of BTC mining, not just cloud mining.

buwaytress

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Good you saw that. Hashflare are not the only ones guilty of that, just so you know. Practically every single cloudminer out there puts out an estimator that deliberately misleads you, either by omitting crucial expenses as you found out, or deliberately overestimating profitability by downplaying difficulty adjustments.

Fact is, all contracts, no question, no exceptions, will give out less profits with every other difficulty adjustment. Historical hashrate proves this. It's been gaining steadily, (ignoring the temporary blip around last year's fork) even with low Bitcoin price pressure.

Fact is, all cloudmining promises at best make you profits after many months of anguish. You're more likely to lose money when contracts stop becoming profitable way before expected time.

Salmen

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They are trying to represent the "too good to be true" estimation which is obviously wrong. You will not reach the ROI if you included the daily fees.
According to MineCalc you would get $0.08 every day, resulting in $28.31 a year, in case you have bought one THs hash power.

pinkflower

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Quote from: leowonderful on May 24, 2018, 05:46:00 AM

Quote from: pinkflower on May 23, 2018, 11:45:37 PM

Predicted difficulty should also be always included in an earnings calculators. It as been going higher linearly over the years which makes it easy to forecast.

Difficulty absolutely does not increase linearly. Please take a look at Bitcoinwisdom's BTC difficulty charts or Litecoin difficulty charts and tell me all that growth (and stagnation a while back) is linear. Please don't post things that are absolutely untrue. Nobody can predict difficulty increases accurately, and it sure does not increase at a linear rate for conventional mining on any chain.

Look at the red line, which represent actual difficulty and zoom out the 9 months and more if you can.

It looks like stairs that continually is going up. But maybe linear is the wrong word to use. What would the right word be?

magneto

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Quote from: hintegerha on May 22, 2018, 01:28:57 PM

Anyone ever tried to convince Hashflare, that their BTC (both SHA256 and Scrypt) calculations are misleading - not to say fraud - they really think that showing payout and estimate calculations including the maintenance fee is correct :-( Had several discussion with them, but all support workers seem to be dumb. So be carefull when reading the numbers - you always have to MANUALLY subtract the maintenance fee from daily payout and estimate earnings !! Would be an easy task for Hashflare to do that automatically, but for clear reasons they are not willing to understand the mistake. Higher numbers definitely look better, but actually they are not that high !!!

Do you mean the estimated numbers when you are actually logged in, and investing, right? Because I couldn't actually find anything on their front page regarding a profit calculator. It could have been recently removed, however.

It's very likely that any estimated profit figures, whether when presented to investors or visitors be biased and inaccurate, in order to provide the illusion that they are profitable.

Obviously, they are not. History has demonstrated that. It's not just hashflare, but every single cloud mining. Every single cloud mining site with estimated profit calculators that provide unrealistic or false profit forecasts are shady and should be avoided.

timerland

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Quote from: hintegerha on May 22, 2018, 01:28:57 PM

Anyone ever tried to convince Hashflare, that their BTC (both SHA256 and Scrypt) calculations are misleading - not to say fraud - they really think that showing payout and estimate calculations including the maintenance fee is correct :-( Had several discussion with them, but all support workers seem to be dumb. So be carefull when reading the numbers - you always have to MANUALLY subtract the maintenance fee from daily payout and estimate earnings !! Would be an easy task for Hashflare to do that automatically, but for clear reasons they are not willing to understand the mistake. Higher numbers definitely look better, but actually they are not that high !!!

If they don't provide misleading estimated payout numbers, then they simply would not be able to suck in any new users. It's really that simple, and why they provide these wrong values to begin with.

People click on their site, and when they use the calculator to see ' how much they will make', they're greeted with a nice fat number. But when they actually buy their contracts, they'll inevitably and always be in the losses.

Besides, HF has been proven to be a scam ages ago with its management literally modifying mining contract clauses from lifetime to 1 year, without the consent of users. Don't use them.

leowonderful

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Quote from: pinkflower on May 23, 2018, 11:45:37 PM

Predicted difficulty should also be always included in an earnings calculators. It as been going higher linearly over the years which makes it easy to forecast.

Difficulty absolutely does not increase linearly. Please take a look at Bitcoinwisdom's BTC difficulty charts or Litecoin difficulty charts and tell me all that growth (and stagnation a while back) is linear. Please don't post things that are absolutely untrue. Nobody can predict difficulty increases accurately, and it sure does not increase at a linear rate for conventional mining on any chain.

pinkflower

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Predicted difficulty should also be always included in an earnings calculators. It as been going higher linearly over the years which makes it easy to forecast.

stomachgrowls

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Quote from: npredtorch on May 23, 2018, 05:55:08 PM

A common people is the most potential victim with such scams like this. Why?
A rich guy can self mine and can do it all with his own money (hiring a specialists that would setup for him, buying the asics) while as for a common, he can't possibly enter or try mining without the aid of cloud sites like Hashflare.

I think there's too many of them which I called as a "common" and that's what HF likes.
1000 low priced contract is better than 1 high priced one.

Not always the case since ive seen some rich people do make investment with these cloud mining sites.Just like my neighborhood even though he has the money to spend on asics but he decide to let those cloud mining handles his money and now he regrets on the thing he had done.I already warned him about that but still he decide to proceed and now he ends up on negative until his contract ends.

I dont see why there are still people who do mind on investing into these things which even just a basic calculation they would able to find out their profitability.

npredtorch

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A common people is the most potential victim with such scams like this. Why?
A rich guy can self mine and can do it all with his own money (hiring a specialists that would setup for him, buying the asics) while as for a common, he can't possibly enter or try mining without the aid of cloud sites like Hashflare.

I think there's too many of them which I called as a "common" and that's what HF likes.
1000 low priced contract is better than 1 high priced one.

________________________________________________

#EDIT
As for the misleading calculation, sorry but they can easily avoid an accusation by using a simple text/note that they still deduct expenses to the total calculated amount.
It could be on the terms or the faq and voila~ as easy as that.

leowonderful

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I often suggest people to try getting physical miners hosted when they say they don't want the hassles of mining at home due to noise or power issues, and it is indeed a viable alternative. There are many scams out there for hosting, but it's the second best option for mining besides home mining- cloudmining should not even be categorized as a form of mining at all.

There's currently plenty of opportunity in FPGAs and ASICs for new algorithms in altcoin mining, but as of right now, mining rewards are low and I don't suggest putting too much money into mining at all right now. Things aren't looking too bright for mining in general right now, especially with GPUs as FPGAs and ASICs encroach on previously GPU-only algos.

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Quote from: AdolfinWolf on May 22, 2018, 01:51:09 PM

Quote from: hintegerha on May 22, 2018, 01:28:57 PM

Anyone ever tried to convince Hashflare, that their BTC (both SHA256 and Scrypt) calculations are misleading - not to say fraud - they really think that showing payout and estimate calculations including the maintenance fee is correct :-( Had several discussion with them, but all support workers seem to be dumb. So be carefull when reading the numbers - you always have to MANUALLY subtract the maintenance fee from daily payout and estimate earnings !! Would be an easy task for Hashflare to do that automatically, but for clear reasons they are not willing to understand the mistake. Higher numbers definitely look better, but actually they are not that high !!!

The world is round... What else is new?

I personally wouldn't be surprised.. This company is running one of the biggest hyips as of right now, hiding/not subtracting some maintenance/transaction fees seems like something you could expect them to do without any remorse.
Especially if you look into what they pulled off in the past.. Canceling lifetime contracts etc. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/scam-hashflare-just-cancelled-all-lifetime-contracts-2138012

When the time that they do already pull out that lifetime contract i do already treat it as an another HYIP site and as an investor if you got caught into the new system then expect you wont really be profitable no matter which side you would try to check out and talking about maintenance fee if you are able to see things that arent right, if you complain you cant change anything therefore you would really end up on get frustrated because as an investor you dont have the right to dictate them what are the thing that they gonna suppose to do.

richardsNY

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Quote from: BitMaxz on May 23, 2018, 01:39:35 PM

I suggest you better to save your money and buy your own Asic miner or build a mining rig this is the best choice to invest your money because it's a physical miner and you can choose where you want to mine bitcoin or other altcoin.

Everything is better than cloud mining, but even actual hardware mining in general is too much of a hassle and time consuming. In all cases investments directly in crypto have yielded far better returns than mining will ever allow you to do. Current price could be seen as a very decent entry point, where it could bring in profit the next week or month, while hardware miners in some cases will require almost 24 months to get your initial investment back. In a fast moving market waiting that long is a killing and a waste of many precious opportunities. People are obviously free to do what they want, but mining is just not it in my opinion.

BitMaxz

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Hashflare is just the same as other cloud mining site they always promise to give you a high profit when you are investing a large amount of money they add a bonuses that actually gives you a little profit that is why I regret when I invested in cloud mining before and I earn few bucks, but I lose big because the cloud mining site is gone they gave me a profit, but my investment is stuck.

anyway, there is no cloud mining site that actually giving you a good profit and most of them are a scam.

I suggest you better to save your money and buy your own Asic miner or build a mining rig this is the best choice to invest your money because it's a physical miner and you can choose where you want to mine bitcoin or other altcoin.

Slow death

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Last year my friend invested in hashflare and he was very excited because he saw the earnings estimate that he was very optimistic, so the next day he came to me to ask me why his daily earnings were so low if the earnings estimate said the opposites ? I told him at the time: do not look at it, because it's all a lie. because I went through the same situation. The hashflare people are making misleading puplicidade and they do it on purpose

Quote from: hintegerha on May 22, 2018, 01:28:57 PM

Anyone ever tried to convince Hashflare, that their BTC (both SHA256 and Scrypt) calculations are misleading - not to say fraud -

well, why would they be convinced? It is clear that they are doing it on purpose. they are aware that the calculations are wrong.

hintegerha

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Quote from: AdolfinWolf on May 22, 2018, 01:51:09 PM

The world is round... What else is new?

I personally wouldn't be surprised.. This company is running one of the biggest hyips as of right now, hiding/not subtracting some maintenance/transaction fees seems like something you could expect them to do without any remorse.
Especially if you look into what they pulled off in the past.. Canceling lifetime contracts etc. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/scam-hashflare-just-cancelled-all-lifetime-contracts-2138012

Ok, I remember the story, you're right. Faking revenues is nothing against cancelling lifetime contracts. Nevertheless I wanted possible/reinvesting customers to be warned that the numbers shown are not real. And the attitude of the support guys is really disgusting. But as you said "The world is round" - in nearly most of the crypto world you get standard replies to requests since they cannot cope with the rush of requests. But then I'd expect at least some signs of intelligence/conciousness when customers bring profound arguments - but looks like I'm expecting too much ;-) And as long as customers are willing to invest into Hashflare or greedy after never ever coming returns on investment without doublechecking their values, things might be not too bad. At least for Hashflare.

AdolfinWolf

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Quote from: hintegerha on May 22, 2018, 01:28:57 PM

Anyone ever tried to convince Hashflare, that their BTC (both SHA256 and Scrypt) calculations are misleading - not to say fraud - they really think that showing payout and estimate calculations including the maintenance fee is correct :-( Had several discussion with them, but all support workers seem to be dumb. So be carefull when reading the numbers - you always have to MANUALLY subtract the maintenance fee from daily payout and estimate earnings !! Would be an easy task for Hashflare to do that automatically, but for clear reasons they are not willing to understand the mistake. Higher numbers definitely look better, but actually they are not that high !!!

The world is round... What else is new?

I personally wouldn't be surprised.. This company is running one of the biggest hyips as of right now, hiding/not subtracting some maintenance/transaction fees seems like something you could expect them to do without any remorse.
Especially if you look into what they pulled off in the past.. Canceling lifetime contracts etc. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/scam-hashflare-just-cancelled-all-lifetime-contracts-2138012

hintegerha

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Anyone ever tried to convince Hashflare, that their BTC (both SHA256 and Scrypt) calculations are misleading - not to say fraud - they really think that showing payout and estimate calculations including the maintenance fee is correct :-( Had several discussion with them, but all support workers seem to be dumb. So be carefull when reading the numbers - you always have to MANUALLY subtract the maintenance fee from daily payout and estimate earnings !! Would be an easy task for Hashflare to do that automatically, but for clear reasons they are not willing to understand the mistake. Higher numbers definitely look better, but actually they are not that high !!!

Topic: Hashflare BTC estimates/payout values WRONG (Read 224 times)