Have all the 'Bull Runs' just been billionaires pumpin and dumpin?

Lucius

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Quote from: thevoyager23 on October 11, 2022, 01:04:17 PM

Shall we just wait till the next billionaire wants to come along at the 'next cycle' and pump and dump?

Who is responsible for the pump from $0 to $30, who for the one from $100 to $1200, and who for the one from $400 to $20 000? As far as my memory serves, your elon-melon was not interested in Bitcoin then, nor were the other rich people who discovered it only 2-3 years ago. The whole story about one man being responsible for the new ATH is just proof of how much people think for themselves, and how much they are influenced by the media that serves them their version of the truth.

A new massive bull run has always followed a halving, and there's no reason why it shouldn't happen again - regardless of whether some billionaire uses it to promote himself.

savetheFORUM

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Quote from: BitcoinBarrel on October 11, 2022, 02:57:04 PM

Many fall victim to bull market runs because anyone pumping crypto will be "right" so to speak as the entire market is increasing value.

I agree with your opinion, indeed there are many victims of bull run, as experienced in 2021 and I am also a victim of bull run, but with me being a victim of bull run, of course it will be a motivation and experience, and I have not sold it until now. my bitcoins because I believe there will be a next higher bull run.

Bull run and bear runs are two cycles which can occur normally here in crypto. It's not a kind of trap or something which can make people lose. As long as you know what to do when those events occur, you can always get a benefit out of them.

I think you guys blame the bull run thinking the price will go for more so you waited till the price dumps. Well, that wasn't really the fault of a bull run but it was your guys' fault because you became greedy. Right now we are currently in a bear run so your decision of not selling now is correct. It's also expected that the next bull run will be much stronger than last time so everyone is advised to buy more.

Beefcake

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Quote from: buwaytress on October 12, 2022, 08:34:34 AM

Kardashians getting sued for shilling, don't think suits and ties are going to be exempt in future. Your money, not theirs.

I feel like that was politically motivated. Also the powers that be hate anything crypto, and look for any excuse. From what I saw she used the #ad hashtag or whatever, indicating it was a paid ad, so while fishy, it wasn't totally scammy. But rules are rules right? But why such a large fine? The banks get away with murder and if they are fined, it's usually a fraction of the amounts involved.

melody82

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I don't think so. There have been two main parts of bitcoins, before and after institutional investors got involved. Before someone with 100k was a whale, after you have funds managing billions start to buy. You can see this in the price and volume history, and also with looking at news if you care to look back. But I don't think individual billionaire investors move the price by themselves. I think that they may help move the price, but there is just too much money in the market these days.

so98nn

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That trend really not new. The riches have been playing with us all the time. What do you think about the fiat note that we hold everyday and trade? That’s ridiculous printed note is nothing but foul play of the riches, and the governments and slowly got injected and nobody knew when they started trading it over the digital network with Share market!

Now there comes bitcoin for our help to have privacy owned transactions, own bank authority and what not. However soon one rich guy smokes weed in their rich club houses and tell their friends how they can use it to be more rich. …

……and there you go we discussing the same stuff, just beyond the curtains.

kryptqnick

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Quote from: thevoyager23 on October 11, 2022, 01:04:17 PM

Notably the 2020/2021 run, was this the 'Age of Elon', is BTC really worth $20,000. £100,000 or "$1 million please like, subscribe click that notification button, comment and check the bybit link at the bottom for your chance to 100x leverage a shit coin" ?

Shall we just wait till the next billionaire wants to come along at the 'next cycle' and pump and dump?

If we're talking about altcoins, then yeah, influencers can have strong impact if not decisive impact behind some bull runs. Not just any influencers, of course, but those with a very big audience and lots of money. But with Bitcoin, I think there's the influence of the media, of some comments by big names, and of project laws/regulations. The influence isn't usually huge, though, and I think that lately even very powerful people or major Bitcoin regulation discussions barely triggered price changes. Bitcoin is still volatile and people can engage in panic selling or buy out of FOMO. But billionaires don't get a much bigger say in this than others.

thevoyager23

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on October 12, 2022, 02:43:59 AM

Quote from: thevoyager23 on October 11, 2022, 01:04:17 PM

Notably the 2020/2021 run, was this the 'Age of Elon', is BTC really worth $20,000. £100,000 or "$1 million please like, subscribe click that notification button, comment and check the bybit link at the bottom for your chance to 100x leverage a shit coin" ?

Shall we just wait till the next billionaire wants to come along at the 'next cycle' and pump and dump?

Your overly simplified logic on this have completely missed the halvings.
So unless these billionaire pumpers have managed to buy at the same time distance to each different bitcoin halving (which would be an overly surprising coincidence), you're wrong.

I think that you'd better read about bitcoin halving - what it means, how often it happens - then look at the historic prices chart (the entire chart) and see how nicely these cycles did match.

Rule number one, never assume

I learned all this in 2018/2019.. But I do agree with you.

buwaytress

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Well, the past billionaires and experts generally talked up 100,000 in the last cycle, and before that we'll recall other big names going for a million easy. That didn't really work out, did it?

Don't have to wait for the next, if you're willing to trawl social media when sentiment improves, cast a pebble and you'll likely hit someone, anyone with pumping notions.

Kardashians getting sued for shilling, don't think suits and ties are going to be exempt in future. Your money, not theirs.

TribalBob

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Quote from: hd49728 on October 12, 2022, 05:57:02 AM

Quote from: thevoyager23 on October 11, 2022, 01:04:17 PM

Shall we just wait till the next billionaire wants to come along at the 'next cycle' and pump and dump?

If you want to invest in Bitcoin or something, do your own research. Don't rely on billionaires, celebs to decide investing or not. You invest with your capital, not one from them so you are the person who must take care of your capital.
.........

agree with this, before investing we must research what we are going to invest, and don't have to depend on other people. For me, Elon is not the trigger for the ups and downs of btc, but I'm sure that the big whale who played a role in this, Elon just added to the hype and left bad news so it seems that he is the one who made the price of btc go up in 2021 yesterday

Wexnident

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Not really no. They are a part of the factors, yes, but they're not the entire cause. Just because you've seen one side doesn't mean that you've seen the entire scene, I'd reckon there are a lot of investors/traders out there that are pretty private with what they do. Elon was there yes, but his popularity basically brought him to the spotlight, this by no means meant that he was the one driving the wheels for the market, he's just a gear of many other gears, albeit bigger (maybe).

Sides, if Billionaires were all it took, I highly doubt Bitcoin would've grown to what it is today.

BIT-BENDER

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Yes it's true billionaires can actively affect the price of Crypto-currency, but I have my reservations if it's possible for them to have much effects on Bitcoin. Elon musk came through about that year you talked about but it generally has to do with Altcoin especially Doge coin. I am not going to take the unproven fact that Elon musk had any influence on the bull run that lead to the last Bitcoin all time high.

Bitcoin is developed already and many billionaires can get their hands to influence it especially as a single unit or small group, it would take a larger group of billionaires to influence bitcoin but what are the chances of this happening.

hd49728

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Quote from: thevoyager23 on October 11, 2022, 01:04:17 PM

Shall we just wait till the next billionaire wants to come along at the 'next cycle' and pump and dump?

If you want to invest in Bitcoin or something, do your own research. Don't rely on billionaires, celebs to decide investing or not. You invest with your capital, not one from them so you are the person who must take care of your capital.

Important to say that Bitcoin is not a pump and dump coin. It has biggest trading volume and you can enter or exit easily. Pump and dump means coins with sudden faked high trading volume when price spikes but if you join, you will have difficulty to exit without impact on price.

Pump: volume increases a lot
Dump: volume decreases a lot to its usual level with which you are hardly to exit.

ethereumhunter

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Elon is a lucky person who can enter the market at the right time and place to move the coin price and the market to have a bull run moment. We can wait for the next cycle because I'm sure it will come again, whether next year or 2 years from now. For now, we can still add coins that have potential in the future so that we will not be late to take advantage of us. And I don't know what the price of bitcoin will be in the future. We can continue to collect more bitcoins because that means we can become the next billionaire.

Doan9269

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Quote from: thevoyager23 on October 11, 2022, 01:04:17 PM

Shall we just wait till the next billionaire wants to come along at the 'next cycle' and pump and dump?

We cannot derive into conclusion just by the steps taken by Elon and those were his personal decisions, we have already a good number of investors who happens to be whales and their buying season does not determine the pump or dump to the current situation on bitcoin price, this is a global distribution where we have different investors buying and at the same time some are selling and what can also be put into consideration is the four years interval between when a new ATH is attainable by the next halving event.

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: thevoyager23 on October 11, 2022, 01:04:17 PM

Notably the 2020/2021 run, was this the 'Age of Elon', is BTC really worth $20,000. £100,000 or "$1 million please like, subscribe click that notification button, comment and check the bybit link at the bottom for your chance to 100x leverage a shit coin" ?

Shall we just wait till the next billionaire wants to come along at the 'next cycle' and pump and dump?

Your overly simplified logic on this have completely missed the halvings.
So unless these billionaire pumpers have managed to buy at the same time distance to each different bitcoin halving (which would be an overly surprising coincidence), you're wrong.

I think that you'd better read about bitcoin halving - what it means, how often it happens - then look at the historic prices chart (the entire chart) and see how nicely these cycles did match.

KaliLinux

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Quote from: yazher on October 12, 2022, 12:42:02 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

I agree with your opinion, indeed there are many victims of bull run, as experienced in 2021 and I am also a victim of bull run, but with me being a victim of bull run, of course it will be a motivation and experience, and I have not sold it until now. my bitcoins because I believe there will be a next higher bull run.

Well! everyone who didn't stop and calculate their money well to spend just what they can afford to lose is the true victim and to make it all worse, those who sold their BTC now despite the current situation of the market are the real losers. They really need to move on and recover the money they lose from different sources because they have nothing to gain anymore when the bull runs come. If they want to get back to invest again, they should at least use the experience they had last time to avoid unnecessary loss of their money and they might consider holding for long instead of wanting quick money which is really hard because of the volatility of the crypto market.

I agree with you. A couple of things are involved in Investment and Investing in Bitcoin is no different. People still haven't understood that what you put on investment in terms of capital shouldn't be what you might need in the next few years so whatever is happening to the market would really affect you even if they FOMOd in during ATH. Those that were able to hodl from the 2017 ATH to the last ATH would have been in profit because the funds were not needed and I think that part is really important.

Kakmakr

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Well, most bull runs are triggered by some kind of event, like a country accepting Crypto currency as a "currency" or some celebrity buying loads of coins ....but it is followed up by Whales that are using that to pump the markets.

This is not different to any other "Commodity" ....but most of the trigger events with Fiat based currencies/commodities are the government that are doing something. (Declaring wars / lowering or increasing taxes or interest rates ....etc.) Roll Eyes

yazher

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Quote from: ?? on ??

I agree with your opinion, indeed there are many victims of bull run, as experienced in 2021 and I am also a victim of bull run, but with me being a victim of bull run, of course it will be a motivation and experience, and I have not sold it until now. my bitcoins because I believe there will be a next higher bull run.

Well! everyone who didn't stop and calculate their money well to spend just what they can afford to lose is the true victim and to make it all worse, those who sold their BTC now despite the current situation of the market are the real losers. They really need to move on and recover the money they lose from different sources because they have nothing to gain anymore when the bull runs come. If they want to get back to invest again, they should at least use the experience they had last time to avoid unnecessary loss of their money and they might consider holding for long instead of wanting quick money which is really hard because of the volatility of the crypto market.

pooya87

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Just because some idiots make statements on the internet about something that is going on (ie. the bull run) doesn't mean they caused it. If I say that the sun is out during the day that doesn't mean my statement brought the sun out Wink

That is exactly what people like Musk, McAfee and the likes of them do. They see there is something trending on the internet and they jump on board and try to become the leaders of that thing or at the very least be seen. In reality they just advertise themselves and make money from that publicity. For example McAfee used it to run a side business where he was paid millions to advertise scam ICOs and made a lot of money that way.

mk4

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Quote from: Poker Player on October 11, 2022, 11:02:18 PM

I agree, and what we saw in the previous cycles is the norm for a highly volatile asset, without a major influence on the price of millionaires or Hedge Funds.

In this cycle we did see the influence of billionaires, like when Musk bought and sold, but the drop in these months is more due to cascading liquidations of leverage positions and panic selling when it was revealed that Celsius and others had problems.

Yep, in the end it's going to be caused by a lot of factors. It's never just retail or just billionaires or just rich institutional investors or whatever other kind of participant there is — it's going to be a mixture of everything.

Poker Player

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I don't know what your mania is with seeing conspiracies of millionaires everywhere. In this cycle in which there has been institutional takeover and more millionaires buying than in the previous one, which was known as the retail cycle, there may have been a greater influence of millionaires if they have bought or sold but in the short term.

Quote from: mk4 on October 11, 2022, 10:19:59 PM

Not necessarily. The previous bull runs — especially in near peaks, mindless retail "investors" who just jump in on hyped assets had heavy participation. Them panicking is what cause the heavy drop as well, as it causes a domino effect.

I agree, and what we saw in the previous cycles is the norm for a highly volatile asset, without a major influence on the price of millionaires or Hedge Funds.

In this cycle we did see the influence of billionaires, like when Musk bought and sold, but the drop in these months is more due to cascading liquidations of leverage positions and panic selling when it was revealed that Celsius and others had problems.

TravelMug

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Nah, I don't think that billionaires have something to do with the bitcoin pump and dump. We haven't seen pumps in bear market, and if they think they can manipulate the price then they will obviously jump on every opportunity. On the contrary, they are just doing what we ordinary investors are doing right now, accumulate and buy more because it's quite cheap. Elon Musk is lucky that he join just in time for the bull run and it seems that he is pumping it but that is not right as well.

mk4

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Not necessarily. The previous bull runs — especially in near peaks, mindless retail "investors" who just jump in on hyped assets had heavy participation. Them panicking is what cause the heavy drop as well, as it causes a domino effect.

hatshepsut93

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Quote from: thevoyager23 on October 11, 2022, 01:04:17 PM

Notably the 2020/2021 run, was this the 'Age of Elon'

No it was not, Elon jumped on the hype train when Bitcoin was in the early phase of the bull run. And he also quit early when he began spreading FUD about Bitcoin, and despite of that the price reached ATH.

If you're looking for correlation, it seems like bull-bear cycles are tied to halvenings. Shortly after the halvening the market turns bullish for a long time and reaches new highs, and then crashes and drops to a new floor, that is higher than the previous floor. This has been happening even before the billionaires got involved.

Bitcoin_Arena

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If this was the case then wouldn't we be seesing pumps and dumps every month?

Why then does it take Bitcoin almost 3 years in a bear market if it is that easy to pump by billionaires?

The 2021 bull run was inevitable and it exactly followed the predicted 4 year cycle. Elon Mask just jumped into the ship after Bitcoin was already on it's way to a new all time high.

Dave1

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In 2017's Bull run, as far as I can remember, the final catalyst is the CME or CBoE bitcoin future contracts offering in December. In 2020, well you can say that Elon and Saylor has influence the market and so is El Salvador making it legal tender. For the billionaires or whales, they have been in the market for many years and so they know the drill when to push and put their money and when to sell, just saying. So it's not just about them, average joe to can contribute to your definition of pump and dump.

BitcoinBarrel

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Many fall victim to bull market runs because anyone pumping crypto will be "right" so to speak as the entire market is increasing value.

thevoyager23

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Notably the 2020/2021 run, was this the 'Age of Elon', is BTC really worth $20,000. £100,000 or "$1 million please like, subscribe click that notification button, comment and check the bybit link at the bottom for your chance to 100x leverage a shit coin" ?

Shall we just wait till the next billionaire wants to come along at the 'next cycle' and pump and dump?

Topic: Have all the 'Bull Runs' just been billionaires pumpin and dumpin? (Read 345 times)