Topic: Have you considered class action law suit against Avalon for pre-sale mining? (Read 1167 times)

This doesn't strike me as lawsuit-worthy at all. First, you have not really articulated a legal claim. Second, your damages are difficult to prove and speculative at best.

Third, in crypto-finance there ought to be a strong presumption against litigating using "first realm" courts. Absent some intentional misconduct or fraud, people should work these things out on their own. Your options are (1) be careful whom you deal with, either know them personally or get references whom you trust, so that you will not be surprised by behavior that you should have expected; (2) for transactions where you must deal with an unknown counter-party, arrange for escrow by a mutually trusted person. This is how it's done.

I support the use of the chips before they are shipped as it does ensure the integrity of them. Seeing how it is a new company, they do need time to test & they do not have enough development time to give us this valuable service immediately without worries of failure, so this may be the only way to ensure that there is not widespread failure upon arrival/ install.

They may have been used for too long to be seen as a respectable gesture, but we must acknowledge that their widespread testing & the funds from such are likely leading to new more efficient chips that will provide an increasing amount of value to the community in the long-term. More value than they are currently taking (as long as they ship on time & continually upgrade as planned).

There are two questions involved.

- whether you can sue in New York, given the seller is in China.

You might be aware of New York long arm statute. The idea is that if there is any connection with New York (with some exceptions), then you can sue in New York. In this case, although the physical presence is China (what we assume), but the bitcoin address (as well as the valuable coins) are indeed online anywhere. You cannot say the bitcoins are located in China only. Some orders are even made from New York. So there is a possibility the court in New York will be willing to hear the case (jurisdiction issue).

- whether you can enforce in China if judgement is made in US.

It is difficult if you got a US court judgement and try to enforce in China. However, you can try arbitration. There is something called New York Arbitration Convention. The idea is that if you receive an award from arbitration in US and seek monetary enforcement in China, then the Chinese court needs to honor (with some exceptions).

Indeed, in the case of bitcoin dispute, given that the valuable bitcoins are not located only in China, it is on the worldwide internet and recorded by so many individual computers, it is likely, if technical savvy, to seize the coins without going to China physically.

*Disclaimer - the information is intended to be general legal information; it is not legal advice. Specific legal advice can only be given with full knowledge of all of the facts and circumstances of your situation. You should seek consultation with an attorney familiar with the laws of your state.

going by the maths of approx 9btc mining per day in february and slowly declining to 1btc per day in june the 700btc total would only just be possible if the machines were constantly mining since mid february order date.

i do believe that the machines were pre-mined before shipping. but i would more then likely put it as a april/may date when they had finished products to begin pre-mining. netting them about 3btc a day in may and from current calculations just over 1btc per day in june. = under 150btc total. as a more accurate figure.

still worth around $15,000 per person ordering in batch #2(february)

Lawsuits in China are not lawsuits in the USA.  You could win but very doubtful. Avalon has no US presence so you would have to do it entirely in China.   Right or wrong it's not gonna happen. 

My view is that the moment you have paid for the miner in full amount, the moment the ownership has been transferred to you. Therefore, any mining activities took place would be made on your behalf, no matter for what purposes such activities took place (testing, inspection or others). You should own all the output, including the 700 plus Bitcoins Avalon mined in one case reported.

If this kind of pre-sales activities are done categorically, then a class action could be used to get reimbursement for all the output for all the Avalon so far purchased.

Anyone interested, can talk to me. I can refer you to a good lawyer if you are in New York region. For those only speaking Chinese, I can find a Chinese speaking lawyer as well.