Have you had the feeling of a certain arbitrariness by moderators?

Poker Player

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Quote from: Mamun74 on January 03, 2022, 10:37:53 AM

Thanks of all moderator who changed my mindset. Really it's useful for me.I really think they are carefully done his job.My many post has been deleted coz thoose post was low quality. For me,It's take positive thinking. Coz i think moderator he his right.I think people don't report my post brcause my thinking is still On topic. When people reported then Moderator should be judgment this right or wrong report coz It's every Moderator responsibility.

Hey man! I'm very glad that people are no longer reporting your posts and that the moderators are not deleting them, although if I'm being honest, the only reason I didn't report your post is because you made me laugh.

On the other hand, I'm going to lock the thread, since I've already read some opinions on the subject and I think this is enough. I don't think it's worth giving the matter much more thought especially since, as I said in the OP, the moderators do a great job.

Mamun74

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Thanks of all moderator who changed my mindset. Really it's useful for me.I really think they are carefully done his job.My many post has been deleted coz thoose post was low quality. For me,It's take positive thinking. Coz i think moderator he his right.I think people don't report my post brcause my thinking is still On topic. When people reported then Moderator should be judgment this right or wrong report coz It's every Moderator responsibility.

Pmalek

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I sometimes see threads intentionally posted in the wrong sections and I don't mind it. For example, I remember instances where some users created threads in technical Bitcoin sub-boards, apologized that they did it, said they knew it doesn't belong there, but asked to not have the threads moved to where they belong. Honestly, I don't mind it. And since those threads remained there for days (no idea what happened to them once the problems were solved), it's safe to assume that the mods didn't mind either or that they weren't reported by other forum members.

If someone has a genuine question about an altcoin and the topic of discussion may be somewhat related to Bitcoin, why not start such a thread in a board not frequented by shitposters? A user may be interested in an altcoin, but still care what the forum's Bitcoin maximalists have to say because he values their judgement.

lovesmayfamilis

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In fact, the responsibility for keeping the forum clean lies entirely with the moderators, isn't it? And reporters are just assistants. I will not argue with the moderators about whether my report is right or not. We cannot advise doctors on how to treat a patient. Everyone must do their job. In my case, I see complete agreement with the moderators, although I do not take on much responsibility to judge the quality of posts.
But if we talk about sending reports anonymously, then imagine how much work can be shouldered by the moderators? Suppose a newbie starts reporting all posts that are off-topic. His goals can be different, from stupid entertainment to some kind of revenge. And the moderators are obliged to check each post and give their full judgment. What kind of work is this? It seems to me that it is huge.
Isn't it easier to trust those who will not engage in nonsense and send reports for the sake of their interests, having any reputation in the history of reports?

Poker Player

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Quote from: suchmoon on December 31, 2021, 09:24:08 AM

Quote from: DaveF on December 31, 2021, 07:27:47 AM

I do that a lot, the topic is "A" but I bring in a bit of "B" and "C" too. Because I think it's close enough to be discussed but not worth starting another post.
So far I have not had a lot of things removed because of that. Is it because people don't report my posts or because mods think it's still on topic?

I probably wouldn't report that.

Me neither. This happens in all threads as pages advance: conversation "A" is mixed with "B" and "C", which are related. But as we are advancing in the alphabet, the conversation has less to do with the main one, which is "A". That is, conversation "B" is clearly related to "A", "C" is clearly related to "B" but not so much to "A", "D" is related to "C" but has even less to do with "A", which is the main topic of the thread.

The problem that I perceive as arbitrary is when me and naim027 get two replies deleted, let's say they are "C" or "D", and I report two replies that are also clearly "C" or "D" and the reports remain as "unhandled" which makes me perceive arbitrariness or unfair unequal treatment.

ShowOff

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No, I just wanted to thank you for the best moderation of all the moderators I've had so far on the forum.

I admit that I'm not the best poster on this forum since I signed up, I'm the shitty poster and poster shit ever. I'm getting a warning "temporary ban" because many of my posts have been deleted for reasons of low quality or spam. More than 140 posts have been reported and deleted and I never thought the moderators had acted arbitrarily against me. Only positive thinking made me a Legendary member after the merit system was introduced, and I think the forum moderation activity that the moderators did for me has turned a bad mindset into something useful. I really thank all the moderators and anyone who has changed my mindset, this is really useful for me.

They may not be as perfect as we hoped, but they have done their best for us here.

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: Poker Player on December 31, 2021, 05:27:16 AM

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on December 31, 2021, 12:24:07 AM

Quote from: Poker Player on December 30, 2021, 11:47:30 PM

The last one I can remember who pissed off about this was nutildah, who seems to have left the forum for good as a result.

I am not aware of any case in which nutildah had any action taken against him for *arbitrary* reasons.

I am talking about feelings and perceptions here, so not something objective.

I am sure nutildah was pissed off for what he perceived as, I don't know if arbitrary, but I am sure that he perceived as unfair.

I am not aware of any instance in which any action was taken against nutildah for what any reasonable person would perceive as arbitrary or unfair.

The only way for something to not be arbitrary when a reasonable person might perceive the action to be arbitrary is when confidential information is used to make the decision, and the information is kept confidential after the action is taken. It would be very rare for something like this to happen. The only time in which I can potentially see something like this happening would be when someone is banned for ban evasion. However, it is very rare for ban evasion cases to be prosecuted, even when the evidence is in plain sight (the person generally needs to be actively causing problems for this rule to be enforced), and if the person is banned for ban evasion, they will know if they were evading a ban.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Quote from: Poker Player on December 30, 2021, 11:47:30 PM

In my case I have discovered a system for not getting off topic replies deleted. It consists of starting by saying "I am sorry that this is an off topic reply but....". Or to write a clear off topic reply but very lenghty, which seems "quality". Although well, that seems to me that it will depend more on who is reporting and who is being reported, I don't think it will work for everyone.

I've done that "this is off-topic, but...." thing before, but normally at least part of that post will be on-topic. And I'd also suggest that some rules have (and should have) different degrees of enforcement. In the case of off-topic replies, I definitely wouldn't want mods to be so strict that a free discussion is inhibited--because a lot of members stray from a thread's main topic. I see it all the time. Compare that rule to the one about doxxing outside of the Investigations section, and you'll get my point.

As far as the other stuff goes, all I have to say is that moderators are human beings. So sometimes they have bad days, are in bad moods, sometimes aren't thinking straight, whatever. Nobody is perfect. But I don't see inconsistencies that stand out so much that I think it's a real problem. I don't think I've ever complained about mods or the job they do, because I don't really see any of them abusing their power or being blatantly unfair. They've got a crazy job to do, so they deserve a lot of slack.

suchmoon

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Quote from: DaveF on December 31, 2021, 07:27:47 AM

I do that a lot, the topic is "A" but I bring in a bit of "B" and "C" too. Because I think it's close enough to be discussed but not worth starting another post.
So far I have not had a lot of things removed because of that. Is it because people don't report my posts or because mods think it's still on topic?

I probably wouldn't report that. If someone's talking e.g. about credit cards and the topic shifts towards privacy, it's still arguably not that far off and perhaps not disruptive to the flow of the thread. However if someone does "but but but what about or ", those posts should not be allowed but they almost always are.

I don't know what it is, whether mods just don't have time to judge context properly or they don't want to touch some topics/users lest they need to defend their decisions, but luckily in most cases I can just hit ignore on some known offenders and pretend that the problem doesn't exist.

DaveF

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The problem IMO is that with so many different mods out there they each have "the line" as to what is OT and what needs to be moved and so on.
And, even though some things may drift a OT or move from the original point of the original post some mods are more willing to go "yeah, that is still a bit relevant" then others.

I do that a lot, the topic is "A" but I bring in a bit of "B" and "C" too. Because I think it's close enough to be discussed but not worth starting another post.
So far I have not had a lot of things removed because of that. Is it because people don't report my posts or because mods think it's still on topic?

That is the other side we don't see. We know what we reported, we don't know what was reported against us and not acted upon.

-Dave

naim027

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I think I understand what posts are you talking about. I believe everyone will agree with me that sometimes we slipped too out of the topic. But, I believe my posts were not off-topic since the thread was about Funds, Escrow, DT mixed. Still, I guess I cannot make a complaint against Mod. I know who reported that. That's his thing, so I am not blaming him. If moderators believe they did it right. It's okay. But, here is my posts that were deleted by a moderator.

@Poker Player, I request you, please avoid that. Someone has the power and if he misuses that, you have nothing to do other than make a complaint (Not talking about the Mod power, I guess you understand)

Little Mouse

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Quote from: noormcs5 on December 31, 2021, 05:50:44 AM

To make it completely fair, why not make a system where mods are unable to see who reports and whos being reported. They should only see the post that is reported and then they could make a decision whether the post is to be deleted or retained.
If this is difficult to achieve, then atleast the person who reported should remain anonymous.

It is possible to keep the reporter anonymous but the reported post? In no way. If any moderators wish to manipulate the system (I don't think they do), they would simply check the thread or search with some keywords to find out the author of the post lol.
Though personally, I don't agree with some of the report statuses I did, I think mods are not doing any arbitrariness, it's not impossible to have some mistake on their part but that's a little when we consider the bigger picture.

cryptoaddictchie

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Quote from: noormcs5 on December 31, 2021, 05:50:44 AM

To make it completely fair, why not make a system where mods are unable to see who reports and whos being reported. They should only see the post that is reported and then they could make a decision whether the post is to be deleted or retained.
If this is difficult to achieve, then atleast the person who reported should remain anonymous.

I think I like this kind of idea, if somehow this can be implemented then I am 100% supporting it. If they can't see whose who report maybe their decision wouldn't be fvaor or against on that. It somehow instill some like and favors to their close users and those they don't like or course. If you review something from the one you don't like of course theres is a reason that you aren't interested to check that out. That's a theory but not impossible moderators are only human then can hate stingy users and like some cool ones too.

noormcs5

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Quote from: cryptoaddictchie on December 31, 2021, 01:26:52 AM

Quote from: Poker Player on December 30, 2021, 11:47:30 PM

that seems to me that it will depend more on who is reporting and who is being reported, I don't think it will work for everyone.

Thats totally unfair if there are. Moderators should not look on whose reporting or whose being reported. That's clearly a bias judgement just because a famous user reported and the one got reported got deleted post now. I know we can't see the action but hopefully it wouldmt go to that. I remember there is a deleted post of mine and there are some whose post aren't deleted which noticed by some members too. Well, forgot the thread but it's on chipmixer signature thread.

To make it completely fair, why not make a system where mods are unable to see who reports and whos being reported. They should only see the post that is reported and then they could make a decision whether the post is to be deleted or retained.
If this is difficult to achieve, then atleast the person who reported should remain anonymous.

Poker Player

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Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on December 31, 2021, 12:24:07 AM

Quote from: Poker Player on December 30, 2021, 11:47:30 PM

The last one I can remember who pissed off about this was nutildah, who seems to have left the forum for good as a result.

I am not aware of any case in which nutildah had any action taken against him for *arbitrary* reasons.

I am talking about feelings and perceptions here, so not something objective.

I am sure nutildah was pissed off for what he perceived as, I don't know if arbitrary, but I am sure that he perceived as unfair.

sheenshane

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IMO, sometimes we think that moderators have arbitrary decisions on our off-topic reports that we reported and didn't get deleted, probably because it's hard for them to judge about the off-topic reports. I still believed that this is a forum and that "freedom of speech" which was still existed and IMO, moderators are carefully making such decisions not to become unbiased. I tend to agree above that moderators are people as well, there might a wrong decision that they thought that's right, that's why the forum doesn't moderate scams to avoid the possibility of unbias decisions from moderators.

Whatever their decision it is I think we should respect it, they have given that task that our admins know that they are capable of with that position and I have nothing to question regarding their jobs.

Just my two sats!

Coyster

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In my opinion, Mods do not take arbitrary decisions, they have the forum rules to guide them when drawing conclusions on a particular case, but since the forum tries to allow as much freedom (of speech especially) as possible, their decisions could differ from one another on the basis of how a particular moderator interpretes/understands the rules and maybe depending on how lenient a mod is.

More often than not users get pissed off when they have a 'good' post deleted, and it could be that the user had their posts reported and the mod that handled the case felt it was worth deleting, on another day with a different mod the post could prolly not be deleted, that's the slight difference that exists while handling such cases, and it is the same reason why some topics you feel are 'off-topic' and you report them do not get deleted.

UmerIdrees

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Quote from: Poker Player on December 30, 2021, 11:47:30 PM

In my case I have discovered a system for not getting off topic replies deleted. It consists of starting by saying "I am sorry that this is an off topic reply but....". Or to write a clear off topic reply but very lenghty, which seems "quality". Although well, that seems to me that it will depend more on who is reporting and who is being reported, I don't think it will work for everyone.

Talking only about these off topic replies where the poster explicitly says "Sorry for being off-topic", such posts should not be deleted. Normally I have seen someone posts in the services section about his / her service, but someone tell details about that topic, which is not related to service but it is not off topic completely.

We are not writing a book, where everything should be placed in correct sections. These off-topics replies are sometimes quite informative.

cryptoaddictchie

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Quote from: Poker Player on December 30, 2021, 11:47:30 PM

that seems to me that it will depend more on who is reporting and who is being reported, I don't think it will work for everyone.

Thats totally unfair if there are. Moderators should not look on whose reporting or whose being reported. That's clearly a bias judgement just because a famous user reported and the one got reported got deleted post now. I know we can't see the action but hopefully it wouldmt go to that. I remember there is a deleted post of mine and there are some whose post aren't deleted which noticed by some members too. Well, forgot the thread but it's on chipmixer signature thread.

mk4

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Moderators are people as well, and can definitely make bad decisions and bad judgements. I've had a few posts questionably deleted as well, but I'm like whatever because complaining about a couple posts being deleted is a waste of time.

I have no idea about the events concerning nutildah though.

Findingnemo

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Quote from: Poker Player on December 30, 2021, 11:47:30 PM

that seems to me that it will depend more on who is reporting and who is being reported, I don't think it will work for everyone.

It may happened once or twice when someone mass reports someone's post and tends to believe that they are all simply off topic and delete them without checking all the reported posts apart from that the moderation is more accurate no matter who report the post and whose post reported they will check is there any violation and just go with the rules.

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: Poker Player on December 30, 2021, 11:47:30 PM

The last one I can remember who pissed off about this was nutildah, who seems to have left the forum for good as a result.

I am not aware of any case in which nutildah had any action taken against him for *arbitrary* reasons.

To answer your question, every mod implements the various forum rules and policies a little differently, however, I have never had moderator action taken against me, while acting as a moderator, which similar action was not taken against others in a similar situation. There is one moderator who is not good with keeping confidential information confidential, however, I would not say this particular moderator takes actions that he does not implement for others (that I am aware of).

Unfortunately, I have encountered instances in which some reports of mine were either not acted upon, or marked as "bad", likely because some moderators were not able to immediately independently verify the information, even though the information is available to the admins (and possibly some of the moderators). This is unfortunate because it has resulted in hundreds of reports of mine being marked as "bad", even though the reports were accurately reporting a post violating the rules.

suchmoon

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Yeah off topic reports usually don't work the way you'd expect. As long as the offender makes some sort of reference to the topic, like "yes this is a very interesting topic but <5 paragraphs about their pet peeve follow>", it will stay. I don't think it's arbitrary though, seems very consistent

Similar issue with shitposts or even borderline plagiarism, but this has already been discussed ad nauseam (Bitcoin Discussion, Press, etc).

What's really arbitrary is someone like this turdhead being allowed to turn the forum into their schizo-diary, while someone else gets banned for one thread.

Upgrade00

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I personally do not give more than 2 sats about the decisions made by the mods, regarding my deleted posts or not acting on reports.

In my years of being on the forum, moderators tend to be accurate when making decisions majority of the time, based solely on their judgement and perception of the rules and its application, which of itself is not an easy job and if for some reason their decision doesn't agree with mine in some rare instances, I just write it off as human error or we having different views of a situation.

A deleted post or report marked bad, isn't especially a big deal. If it happens recurrently and you feel it is not an accurate decision, then it's understandable to make a complaint to know the reason.

About moderators arbitrariness; I'll say I've not noticed that much. Heavy handed moderation may be present in some boards, but it's still based off some logical thinking and not random actions.

Poker Player

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I say only a certain arbitrariness because I think the moderators do a great job, and I also understand that it happens to them as it happens to referees in sports: they are criticized by everyone when they do not have an easy task.

But I would like us to share experiences if you have had the feeling of, for example, having posts deleted unfairly. Or that reports you have made were not acted upon. Or other things you can think of.

The last one I can remember who pissed off about this was nutildah, who seems to have left the forum for good as a result.

In my case I have discovered a system for not getting off topic replies deleted. It consists of starting by saying "I am sorry that this is an off topic reply but....". Or to write a clear off topic reply but very lenghty, which seems "quality". Although well, that seems to me that it will depend more on who is reporting and who is being reported, I don't think it will work for everyone.

Topic: Have you had the feeling of a certain arbitrariness by moderators? (Read 300 times)