Topic: [HAVELOCK] DIRECT FUND Mining Contract Offer Starts Monday August 10th! (Read 3906 times)

Havelock has confirmed the buyback request and will be doing so based on the IPO Purchase price.

Hi everyone, apologies for the delay. I've been taking care of some personal issues this past week. I'm going to go ahead and instruct Havelock to close the offering and begin the refund process. Thanks to everyone that participated.

The more I read this the more confusing it gets. If the offering was unsuccessful - which it was as today is the 25th - and everyone got refunded, who's trading those shares on Havelock and why is trading enabled at all? I have a feeling that the terms got ninja-edited at some point so please at least post the newest version somewhere.

What a shitshow, no wonder the "Top-Tier Mining Organization" didn't want their name mentioned in this.

So what's the status? I can see it's now trading on Havelock but the IPO is still going on too? And the price doesn't seem to have been adjusted to match the exchange rate.

It was not the plan to promote outside this forum, as everyone here can be assumed to have a better understanding of the offering than those elsewhere, but we are going to investigate doing so.

Yeah, nice. The problem is some people have still not forgotten Amhash. That one was sold via Havelock, right?

Is it being promoted anywhere outside Bitcointalk?

Hi guys; if the extra time does not look like it will make a difference in achieving the goal of selling out the total number of shares, we will go ahead and stop the offering as planned on 8/24-

Thanks-

Price is tied to USD:


As for the date change - I'd guess it's selling much slower than expected. No chance of selling it out at the current pace even with the extended deadline.

yeah very glad to see people are finally learning why investing in these are horrid. What's even funny is how Havelock has hosted one of these before. It's almost like they don't even care about their traders or users...

Thanks, I'm working on that with Havelock now-

Seems people have finally learned their lesson with these type of offerings. It only took a few years and millions lost to learn it!

Technically, yes, that's correct - Offering End Date will still be 8/24/15 at 1PM EDT. Going to see if we can return to IPO Offering status, as I'd prefer that the market not be open to limit confusion-

Sorry for the confusion; the issue stems from having scheduled the start and end date of the Initial Offering at the same time (erroneously). After an initial offering is closed, the remaining units (all of them, in this case), are released to the open market.

The Ask Wall of 987,837 shares (currently) is the 'Offering'; I'm currently speaking to Havelock to try and close trading and reissue the Public Offering for simplicity's sake. In any case, the shares purchased from the Ask Wall are the legitimate shares for the Offering.

Thanks to all of our purchasers of the 12,163 units so far!

Someone sold 1 share for 0.00150002 just to reflect on market cap, market cap is based on last trade.

But you're right, trading shouldn't be enable while initial offering is available.

Was wondering when you would show up and post some pics.

All great reasons for the still unnamed for no reason mining operator to offer this and terrible reasons for people to buy it. What are these guys going to do when all the people that can't do math run out of money?

This sort of thing is never easy for me, might as well get it over with...

http://s11.postimg.org/nva18x49v/Capture.png

Apologies to everyone for the delayed start; I had incorrectly input the start/ending date for the public offering-

Offering will begin at 2PM - thanks for your patience!

EDIT: Offering is up! Thanks to our early purchases and please ask any questions here, or email at [email protected]

Offering price has been updated to reflect $0.55 per unit at the most current Coinapult rate of $264.18

Offering Start Date: Monday, August 10th at 1PM EDT (5PM GMT)
Offering End Date: Monday, August 24th at 1PM EDT (5PM GMT) or until Sold Out

Units Offered: 1,000,000 (Equivalent to 1GH/s per Unit)

Offering Price: $0.55 per Unit, in BTC = .00208192 BTC

Link: https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=DIRECT

Public Offering: Link TBD

Reports: https://www.havelockinvestments.com/reports.php



Please let me know if you have any questions about the offering or the listing!

I'm happy to answer any questions about the offering of the offering structure.


I think this is an opportunity for the Mining Operator to hedge their exchange rate risk by accepting a certain amount of guaranteed fiat in advance. This way they can lock in some profit (fiat-wise) and retain additional capital for future infrastructure investments.

We're playing over dangerous waters over here, AMHash got us fried real bad.

"trying their hand at mining" is dumb. There are 2 reasons to mine, get bitcoins, secure the network. These miners are already running, paying an unnamed person won't help there, so the only reason is to get bitcoins. It doesn't make sense to "try mining" via someone else's miner unless you will get more bitcoins than you can get from the market, and if that were the case it wouldn't make sense for that person to let you try. As soon as everyone realizes this the hashrate and price will stabilize to something that makes sense.

So that's it. Now we got a dead thread over here?

Dangerous game, Im not playing. Havelock has proven to have issues in the past and mining has the worst issues I ever seen. It's like a match made in heaven.

Yes, I absolutely agree to this point - the factors that affect this outcome are change in BTC/USD rate, change in difficulty, and (obviously) the Mining Operator holding up their end of the bargain. I'm in no way saying that profit is guaranteed here - no one can know how BTC/USD rate and difficulty will change in the next year.

Overall, people will always want to try their hand a mining - it's one of very few ways to possibly profit in BTC as opposed to profiting in Fiat. This this offering was designed to be the simplest, easiest way to do so with the greatest opportunity of profit (not guarantee). There's a defined time period (nothing Perpetual, or needing 'reinvestment); no maintenance, power, or electricity fees; and an exit available (selling onto the open market) at any time.

If you don't return to me 1 BTC or more for every 1 BTC I give you I am in a worse position fiat wise than I would be if i had nothing, no matter what the btc/usd exchange rate.

That is the comparison people need to make. It's not the same as saying "I should have night apple stock instead of X 20 years ago," that is an actual decision. If you do not return the amount of coins you are given you are a worse "investment" than literally doing nothing.

Once people realize that and stop subsidizing miners via stuff like this and preorders to scumbag companies mining might make sense again.

I believe that we could theoretically pay dividends every day but, honestly, it's very inefficient and time-consuming to do so (as opposed to once per week). As much as daily dividends are highly coveted in this space, it's unnecessary and overly cumbersome to institute. The Havelock BTC address will be published so that contract holders can see the BTC transfers on-chain and reference the weekly totals paid to the contract holders to verify totals.


There's certainly a downside, but you have to ask if a Mining Operation in one of the Top 5 spots would stop mining in the face of a declining price - again, they're very comfortable at $220 as that's when (price-wise) we began speaking with them. This is not a micro-operation where they could just 'buy coins' at that rate instead without moving the market, especially having meted out millions of dollars for mining equipment and infrastructure (buildings, wiring, etc).

The supply of Bitcoin miners is not perfectly or evenly relatively elastic - even a doubling in price would only cause a short-term bump in difficulty. Most mining equipment that would still be profitable at that price is already deployed. Manufacturing new mining equipment, especially at the current GH/J consumption rate is a multi-month process - it's not as if people can simply turn on the mining 'spigot' and churn out brand new profitable equipment at the drop of a hat.


Sorry to hear that; this is not going to be ASICMiner again; this Organization is more reputable and more geographically distributed.


Simple mining contracts (no maintenance fees or power fees) where the hashpower is real, instead of theoretical, puts the lessor and lessee of hashpower on the same side. Unlike Perpetual Mining Bond of Bitcoin-past, this contract doesn't pit the contract issuer against the contract purchaser. I do apologize that we can't release the name of the Mining Operator until the first block of contracts (initial offering ) is inked, but I can again say that they're in the Top 5 of all Miners. Please feel free to check this list out at www.blockchain.info/pools

Thanks for investigating the offering, even if you do end up staying on the sidelines-

Fiat-wise, no one knows if this will generate $550K worth of Bitcoin in the coming year; that depends on the BTC/USD price and no one can predict that. Strictly logically, it makes sense to assume that the miners hope that the price stays the same or increases. However, if the Mining Operator can make a guaranteed profit up front (by commissioning and deploying mining equipment for a fixed cost, plus a fixed electricity cost), by selling some of it for more than its cost, then they've made a profit irrespective of the BTC price. With as much hashpower as they have, there is some hedging that they don't mind having.

Yes, every miner has a conflict of interest with all other miners, but the lessor of hashpower has no conflict of interest with those he leases his hashpower to - he simply wants to provide that defined hashpower at the least cost possible. You'll see that, in the contract, the Mining Operator is allowed to use whatever equipment they choose to provide such hashpower.

Fixed term mining contracts and no transparency? Thanks, but not interested.

Got ripped off by  Ascicminer

There is definitely a downside if the price goes up. If the price goes up they will be more fucked than if they bought coins today (dollars wise), and if the price goes up more people will be able to afford the electricity to run miners or have incentive to run miners which will make the difficulty go up which will make this operation make less money.

Well, to be honest, it's really hard to make any profit as a small to even medium size self-miner of BTC. And, as many have found out over the years, it's very hard to make profit in Bitcoin as opposed to making profit in an asset denominated in dollars. This contract has no downside of the price moves up, as some investments do.

So, for those that want the possibility of making profit, in BTC (and as it said, possibly 72%, with difficulty and price relatively stable). Obviously, that's not a given, but it's a point of reference of why people would want to purchase these contracts.

Payment once per week=less transparency=more place to 'play' with dividends. At least daily payment is absolute necessity. Hashnest pays after each found block...

These things just don't make sense.

Will this hashpower generate $550k worth of bitcoin in a year? If yes, the company is stupid for making this offer, why should I trust them to maintain the miners and send all that profit back to me over the next year?

If no, you would be stupid to pay someone and they would be stupid to actually waste electricity on miners, and in competing with the rest of the miners that they own over coins mined when they can just take that pile of coins and pay back like you do with B.MINE.

You say they are transparent but they offer nothing. You say there is no conflict of interest, but every miner has a conflict of interest with every other miner by trying to sovle the same blocks and making the difficulty go up.

so to buy, 1th right now
1,000 GH would be $550??

with an est, monthly return right now of $81

So roughly 6.7 months on ROI.
assuming a bit of difficulty increase, let's say 7 months on the nice side.

So if nothing goes wrong. you get 5 months of profit. so maybe $400

so that's a 1.72 return.

Let's ignore the fact that blocks will half, difficulty will increase, and a crap load more power will come online.
You need to hope the price of btc increases

Or just buy $550 of bitcoin and hope it goes up.

Seems like a pretty weak investment. with high chance of 0 profit. and possibly even a loss of money?

Why would anyone do this?

I guess my main issue is that it has to be a secret while people buy in. I really hope this is legit as most of these are not. I just felt it was good to help newbies read up about how most of these have gone...and be careful.

For some frame of reference, neither IceDrill nor ActiveMining were listed on Havelock (they were listed on BTC-TC and BTC-TC/BitFunder, respectively). And I actually spoke out against Activemining as far back as July of 2013.

In addition, While B.MINE (along with B.SELL/B.EXCH of BDD) is not a true mining venture, it did end its first Round with a full accounting of all its BTC paid out to its holders - up to 600BTC at one time.

Mining operations have gotten a bad name due to ventures such as those you've named. However, this offering is presented as a small percentage of a very large mining organization (as opposed to the David-level operations of Icedrill and Activemining) and as a larger, more transparent, more professional, and more geographically distributed organization than ASICMiner.

We welcome healthy skepticism, as it is an essential part of this ecosystem. However, I don't believe that it's fair to link the failures of previous mining offerings to this (materially different) offering that is DirectHash.

DIRECT has no conflict of interest between owners/lessors of the hashpower (the Mining Operator) and lessees of the hashpower (holders of DIRECT units), no maintenance or power fees whatsoever, and no reinvestment gimmicks - what you see is what you get, very simply. Thanks for the interest, and the questions-

And, finally, a careful examination of the Top 5 Mining organizations at https://blockchain.info/pools may provide additional insight into the background of this offering.

It is a secret...

I will be curious how many buy into another mining operation...

AMHash = scammers - took funds and ran
Icedrill = huge losses not sure if it was a scam or not
Active mining = scam


Too many to list...can anyone name a mining venture that did not lose investors funds?

Oh Nasty Mining did not scam so there is 1 so far....any others?

Our own Mining Farm  HMF is operating since 2012

https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=HMF

Still paying divs now.

We are offering the DIRECT Mining Fund for our users that want to have their Mining managed by one of the leading mining pool currently operating.



Havelock

still have major questions about the intelligence and possible integrity of the mining operator.

This is not a pre-sale. they have the miners, allegedly, they can prove they have it, they can prove they are mining with it. They are selling a large bunch to you on a certain date. A pre-order is for stuff that doesn't' exist, this exists.

The "issues" with  other "cloud mining" operations come from the fact that they are all scams. the whole point of crypto is that everything is in the blockchain. Those scam operations weren't mining, never proved it, and ran out of money. If this operation is legitimate, it would be trivially easy for the operator and you to show it, and none of the issues that are associated with pre-sales and cloud mining would exist.

Yes, this hashpower already exists and this contact, if fully funded by the offering, would be a lease of existing hashpower. The original plan was to do a joint press release with the Mining Operator but their executive board decided that possible negative connotations with a 'pre-sale' wouldn't be worth a $550,000 sale (if that gives context of the scale that we're talking here). I tried very hard myself to get them to reconsider, but they wouldn't budge.

We are pushing on with the offering with the hope that the initial 1PH will sell out, which will allow us to ink the initial contract. At that point, with the money in hand, the Mining Operator's identity will be public knowledge and subsequent offerings, if approved by them (and with enough to interest from buyers) will clearly be associated with them.

B.MINE has a defined end period, and maximum possible payout (the NAV/U) so it's really apples and oranges there. Please let me know if you've got any other questions.

This excuse for a "secret identity" is bullshit.

The "negative association" is for preorders of machines that don't exist and end up never existing or being way late and/or not close to the specifications that people paid for. If this is supposed to start mining at some point in the next 3 weeks that hardware should not be a pre-order, it should be hashrate from machines that already exist and are already running somewhere. Handing over money without proof of that hashrate existing is insane.

Also, if I want the "equivalent of.." mining power why wouldn't I get B.MINE? If this is backed by real power the payout should be the actual proceeds of mining.

Yes, technically one user could purchase them all. If that were to happen, we would likely start a new block of units, as the mining operator has much more than 1PH available to lease. This would be pending their approval, of course.

The contract was negotiated starting earlier this year with BTC/USD around $220. The mining operator has communicated that they're comfortable with a much lower BTC/USD price for a sustained period. I believe that the Mining Operator's name and reputation will speak for itself, unfortunately they're not comfortable with any association until funds are in hand and the contract is inked. Hope this helps, even if you do stay on the sidelines.

I'll be watching this one... out of morbid curiosity more than anything.

is that correct that the maximum shares one user can buy is ALL of them? all 1000000 shares?

that part seems a little odd.

also, what happens if the btc/usd price tanks? for a few weeks? for a few months? all year?

we also need more info as to who you are and where to find you... some pool's addy isnt any good, can you verify that?

just sayin'

Totally correct. As I just mentioned in my reply to JasherEnoch, Havelock and I have tried to make this offering as simple as possible. I'll gladly post the BTC deposit address publicly so that people can see the exact mining proceeds transferred from the Mining Operator to the Havelock account directly on the Blockchain.

I can answer definitively that friedcat/ASICMiner and its associates/associated companies (Rockminer/Rockxie) are not involved whatsoever. I can't necessarily say that there are no Chinese people/companies involved, as that might allow people to pare down the Top 5 Miners, so this is a neither confirm nor deny on that. But, correct, no FC/AM/RM link at all.

I will say that this offering has the following advantages over previous mining operations:

• No 'reinvestment fund vs dividend' decisions needed- these contracts are for a defined time period and end after that time period. Which leads to the next point:
• The interests here are aligned between the DIRECT contract holders and the Mining Organization - the Mining Organization wants to provide hashrate at the lowest possible cost while still providing the agreed upon hashrate. There are no conflicts of interest when it comes to maintenance/hosting fees (as there are no maintenance/hosting fees)
• It's a bigger and more well funded operation, with wider (geographical) hashpower distribution than ASICMiner

There's a reason that the contract for this is so short - it's a simple offering. No pre-sale, no waiting, no voting, no choices - simply purchase shares; collect dividends. This Mining Organization normally only deals with contracts for $1 Million or more, so this allows people to take advantage of true economies of scale (Goliath) instead of trying to cobble together a small to medium (David) size mining operation that's fighting against the BTC big boys. I hope this has helped assuage some of your reservations; please let me know if you have any other specific questions.

OK - so just to clarify, no pool fees or any other deductions from the mining revenue.  You buy 1000 Gh at $550 and you get 1000 Gh worth of mined btc once per week for 52 weeks (+/-5%).

So because of all the bad investments of other mining funds in the past, I must ask. So this fund has nothing to do with Feidcat or any Chinese person or organization? Also no ASIC Miner?

Let's face reality here. All of the previous mining funds on Havelock all have one thing in common. They all failed. They failed and many of us lost a lot of money in BTC. I personally have not fully recovered from my losses; and at the current rate of any fund (including BDD) on Havelock it may take years, or may not ever recover all of my losses.

Does anyone remember the old song: "Once bitten twice shy"? Well that is me now. I started investing heavily, and at first the mining funds were producing....but that was the smoke screen. I was working just enough to make people invest more and then BAM...it all went to hell; we all lost money and no one ever paid any penalties or suffered any consequences for their actions.

So why should I trust another mining fund?

Where is Airwolf? What does he think and have to say. And like someone asked.....Havelock why don't you clean up old messes before starting new ones?

Sure thing - there are no maintenance fees, power fees, or any other fees of this type. One unit, priced at $0.55 will pay out the equivalent of 1GH of hashing power for one full year; no other fees or charges.

Can I get my question answered from the previous thread:

What is the daily maintenance and/or electricity fee?  I don't see any mention of it, unless I missed it.

The conversation was not related to our offer and went off-topic.  They may continue the conversation in their own thread.

Havelock

Havelock Investments is pleased to present DirectHash Mining Contracts listed under symbol DIRECT on HavelockInvestments.com

https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=DIRECT

Overview
DirectHash Mining Contracts, listed under the symbol DIRECT on HavelockInvestments.com, provide a simple mining solution for their owners. DirectHash Mining Contracts mining contracts give their owners the ability to receive payouts from real, physical Bitcoin mining equipment without the complications of managing physical Bitcoin miners.

Backed by Physical Hashpower

DirectHashs mining capability will be provided by a Top-Tier Mining Organization (one of the Top 5 Mining Pools/Companies as reported by Blockchain.info). Due to the negative association with Pre-Sales of hashpower, the Top-Tier Mining Organization wishes to have its identity withheld until the full funding amount is raised and the contract is initialized.

The identity of the Top-Tier Mining Organization will be made public upon successful initialization of the contract.

DirectHash Contracts
DIRECTs initial offering will be comprised of a block 1,000,000 units, each of which will represent 1GH/s (1 GigaHash per second) of Bitcoin mining power, for a total combined hashrate of 1,000,000 GH/s (1 PetaHash per second). While real hashrate can be affected by outside circumstances such as power loss or mechanical failure, the Top-Tier Mining Organization covenants to provide this hashrate with no more than +/- 5% variance. Real hashrate will be reported to unitholders once per week.

Initial Offering

The initial offering will be available for fourteen days. All units of the initial 1,000,000 block must be purchased in order for the contract to be initialized. If the initial offering is unsuccessful (the full 1,000,000 units are not sold out), funds paid for these units will be returned to the purchasers and the contracts will be null and void.

Each unit will be offered at a price of approximately $0.55 in Bitcoin per the Coinapult BTC rate (Coinapult.com). The offering price may be adjusted during the offering period to account for changes in the BTC / USD exchange rate. After contract initialization, the units will float freely on the open market.

If the initial offering is successful, Havelock Investments has the right to offer additional block of units at any price (subject to Top-Tier Mining Organization approval and mining capacity availability).

Fund Management
DIRECT's day to day operations, such as investor relations and dividend payments, will be handled by twentyseventy. Questions, comments, or issues can be addressed here in the Bitcointalk thread or via email at [email protected]

Mining Payouts
The contracts will initialize as soon as possible (no later than one week) after the completion of a successful offering. Payouts of mining proceeds will be made proportionally to unitholders once per week.

Escrow and Bonding
All mining payout funds will be sent directly to DIRECTs Havelock deposit address and all pending payout funds will be held in escrow by Havelock. The Top-Tier Mining Organization will be appropriately insured and bonded against damage to mining equipment, interruption of mining services, and theft.

Contract Termination
Each unit will represent a mining contract valid for one year. Any units made available after the initial offering may be offered for a shorter time period to coincide with the termination date of the original block of units.


Offering Start Date: Monday, August 10th at 1PM EDT (5PM GMT)
Offering End Date: Monday, August 24th at 1PM EDT (5PM GMT) or until Sold Out

Units Offered: 1,000,000 (Equivalent to 1GH/s per Unit)

Offering Price: $0.55 per Unit, in BTC - Pricing will be adjusted as needed during Offering Period due to USD/BTC fluctuation
Currently .00193321 BTC (1.93321 mBTC)


Link:  https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=DIRECT

Public Offering: Link TBD

Reports: https://www.havelockinvestments.com/reports.php