Hello Bitcoin :-) | Bitcointalksearch.org

nutildah

legendary

Activity: 3010

Merit: 8114

Quote from: Gladitorcomeback on November 18, 2023, 08:40:01 PM

Quote from: Findingnemo on November 18, 2023, 01:05:24 PM

The brc 20 token ORDI hyped when Binance listed their pairs on 2023-11-07. So it's obvious that in the next few weeks, the hype will eventually die

Binance is not the real reason, Ordi is just one token on Ordinal network.

By listing ORDI, Binance helped legitimize BRC-20, so it is very much their fault. But they knew the demand was there, so they listed it, because making money is what they do best. They're already making millions on trading fees because it is the current hot thing at the moment. Won't be surprised to see them list other Ordinals tokens in the future.

n0nce

hero member

Activity: 882

Merit: 5834

not your keys, not your coins!

Quote from: Findingnemo on November 18, 2023, 12:46:41 PM

Technically multi-signature wallets can create Lightning channels too (correct me if I am wrong guys), but the feature is not available in the wallets we use for example in Electrum.

To the best of my knowledge, it's not part of the Lightning BOLT / specification: https://github.com/search?q=repo%3Alightning%2Fbolts+multisig&type=code

Although you can certainly build a client that is capable of doing so. The challenge will be that you'll need access to all signers' keys at all times in order to update channels in a timely manner.

Quote from: Findingnemo on November 18, 2023, 12:46:41 PM

The feature is available in some wallets like Muun Wallet which is 2 of 2 multi sig wallet.

What they're doing is having an online service which auto co-signs. If it goes offline, you'll have issues with your channels not updating.

The main question to ask yourself is: if your keys are on an online machine anyway (required for Lightning), does using 2 or 3 keys instead of 1 increase your security? What attacker model do you need to make this statement true?

NotATether

legendary

Activity: 1568

Merit: 6660

bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org

Quote from: Findingnemo on November 18, 2023, 12:46:41 PM

Technically multi-signature wallets can create Lightning channels too (correct me if I am wrong guys), but the feature is not available in the wallets we use for example in Electrum.

You can in theory, but then it would be non-interactive multisig where all the signing is automated and not done by people (except maybe one person [in this case, you] I guess).

The multisig where all the co-signers need to get online and send each other partial transactions from their wallets so that they can sign them is called interactive multisig, and as a consequence, does not work well with Lightning Network commitment transactions.

DaveF

legendary

Activity: 3500

Merit: 6320

Crypto Swap Exchange

Quote from: AB de Royse777 on November 18, 2023, 12:27:14 PM

Let it continue like this and soon I will have more unconfirmed transactions. A multi-Sig wallet does not allow me to create a lightening channel.

With jumping thought a lot of hoops (you have to create the TX manually) you can open a channel with a multi-sig wallet. But if something goes wrong you are probably screwed. Someone did a demo of it a while ago. Later the node shit the bed and would not re-sync.

But you now have the hot wallet (multicig or not) on the same machine as the LN node. Which has to be online 24/7 Just seems to be a security nightmare if you are worried about things like that.

-Dave

cryptosize

sr. member

Activity: 1666

Merit: 310

Quote from: Bender Bending Rodriguez on November 18, 2023, 11:09:52 PM

Quote from: Gladitorcomeback on November 18, 2023, 08:40:01 PM

What a shit idea to use BTC network for this purpose. Why not use other chain already known for NFT Like Eth and Solona. Now we have to pay much high for sample transaction.

Why are people doing stupid things ?

Just because they can do them. As always on the Internet.

I wouldn't call it a "stupid" thing necessarily.

When you advertise immutability as BTC's selling point, it's going to attract lots of fish... Wink

ps: ETH is not immutable (DAO 2016 hack) and Solana is in a constant beta-testing phase.

Bender Bending Rodriguez

newbie

Activity: 7

Merit: 1

Quote from: Gladitorcomeback on November 18, 2023, 08:40:01 PM

What a shit idea to use BTC network for this purpose. Why not use other chain already known for NFT Like Eth and Solona. Now we have to pay much high for sample transaction.

Why are people doing stupid things ?

Just because they can. As always on the Internet.

Gladitorcomeback

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 619

Quote from: Findingnemo on November 18, 2023, 01:05:24 PM

Quote from: AB de Royse777 on November 18, 2023, 12:51:50 PM

Quote

ORDI hype

Another taproot project?

The brc 20 token ORDI hyped when Binance listed their pairs on 2023-11-07. So it's obvious that in the next few weeks, the hype will eventually die

Binance is not the real reason, Ordi is just one token on Ordinal network. Go and check ordinalswallet.com ,you will find the real reason thay how much NFT traded in each minutes there. Hype will over when NFT hype subsides but look like it's not to be happened in bull season. We may see more hype if it supported by any big influencers.

What a shit idea to use BTC network for this purpose. Why not use other chain already known for NFT Like Eth and Solona. Now we have to pay much high for sample transaction.

digaran

copper member

Activity: 1330

Merit: 899

🖤😏

Speaking of fun, I have found a new hobby, first I broadcast my TX with electrum to be in the next block and then I go to mempool.space to check the white arrow, then in less than a minute, that white arrow slowly gets kicked out of the next block and goes into the 2nd block, but I don't give up and again bump the fee, but again it gets pushed to the next block, for the third time before the arrow moves from the left side edge of the block, I go to set max static fee just to get an error of missing or spent. To see if I were 1 second faster, I could have paid double the fee because it was confirmed milliseconds before being replaced by new incoming spam.

Here this is the white arrow, and the name of this game is : "bump that fee".😉

I have heard after you pay $200 for ViaBtc accelerator, not only you get life time free TX sliding in, you also get to choose 1 out of 3 stripers they show you, for a life time private dance. 🤥

cryptosize

sr. member

Activity: 1666

Merit: 310

Quote from: Odohu on November 18, 2023, 02:26:08 PM

Listing ORDI in Binance means the hype is not dying anytime soon. If everything depends on the fading of the Ordinal hype, we will have to bear the pain of high transaction fees for a while.

And what if Binance dies? Grin

If I were Larry Fink (BlackRock's CEO), I would do everything I could to kill CZ's business and become the dominant CEX (pending BTC ETF approval).

Let's just say CZ is not exactly the most innocent guy... Roll Eyes

Odohu

hero member

Activity: 546

Merit: 516

Quote from: Findingnemo on November 18, 2023, 01:05:24 PM

Quote from: AB de Royse777 on November 18, 2023, 12:51:50 PM

Quote

ORDI hype

Another taproot project?

The brc 20 token ORDI hyped when Binance listed their pairs on 2023-11-07. So it's obvious that in the next few weeks, the hype will eventually die

Listing ORDI in Binance means the hype is not dying anytime soon. If everything depends on the fading of the Ordinal hype, we will have to bear the pain of high transaction fees for a while.

Quote from: albert0bsd on November 18, 2023, 02:08:10 PM

Quote from: Orpichukwu on November 18, 2023, 01:46:29 PM

Then again, let me ask about the $200 of their fee charge. Is it for a single transaction or is it a life or annual charge that, after that one-time payment, you will not have to pay again for the rest of the month or year?

That fee is a per Transaction.

What then is the need for the paid service when it is higher than the fee needed to get transaction confirmed? It seems it's a wrong calculation on their part Cheesy

Zaguru12

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 952

Quote from: NeuroticFish on November 18, 2023, 01:45:41 PM

Yep, ViaBTC would have been a good lifeboat if the tx would have been smaller. Maybe you consider making smaller batches in the future (just an idea).
Any chance for people to start doing CPFP for some of those transactions? (Probably not, unless they are getting desperate).

Yes the free service for ViaBTC acceleration will not work due to size and even the paid service is something that I don’t think will be cost effective, because most of all this paid accelerators are expensive than regular transactions fees (although I don’t know of this period)

Also the CPFP will not be visible for any of the receiving addresses because of how high the fees will be when trying to cover up for the parent transaction

albert0bsd

hero member

Activity: 862

Merit: 662

Quote from: Orpichukwu on November 18, 2023, 01:46:29 PM

Then again, let me ask about the $200 of their fee charge. Is it for a single transaction or is it a life or annual charge that, after that one-time payment, you will not have to pay again for the rest of the month or year?

That fee is a per Transaction.

Orpichukwu

sr. member

Activity: 658

Merit: 387

Quote from: AB de Royse777 on November 18, 2023, 01:29:56 PM

Quote from: albert0bsd on November 18, 2023, 01:05:39 PM

That are your campaign paymets? In that case is not possible to accelerate them Sad

Yes, they are. I tried viaBTC but it always exists the size limit unfortunately. I wanted to check their paid service but it seems for their paid service for each a transaction they charge over $200 LOL. I don't see no point to spend that much.

The paid service is really as high as one can't imagine; instead of spending that much on acceleration service, one will just have to double his fee from the payment side and make sure their transaction fee is a bit higher, which usually could just cost about $30-$50 for a transaction as large as the ones you use to send, which can just take a few minutes or hours for them to get confirmed.

Then again, let me ask about the $200 of their fee charge. Is it for a single transaction or is it a life or annual charge that, after that one-time payment, you will not have to pay again for the rest of the month or year?

NeuroticFish

legendary

Activity: 3668

Merit: 6382

Looking for campaign manager? Contact icopress!

Quote from: AB de Royse777 on November 18, 2023, 01:29:56 PM

Which site is that? It seems fun.

mempool.space
It has quite some interesting features if one has time to play with it, including animation.

Quote from: AB de Royse777 on November 18, 2023, 01:29:56 PM

Quote from: albert0bsd on November 18, 2023, 01:05:39 PM

That are your campaign paymets? In that case is not possible to accelerate them Sad

Yes, they are. I tried viaBTC but it always exists the size limit unfortunately. I wanted to check their paid service but it seems for their paid service for each a transaction they charge over $200 LOL. I don't see no point to spend that much.

Yep, ViaBTC would have been a good lifeboat if the tx would have been smaller. Maybe you consider making smaller batches in the future (just an idea).
Any chance for people to start doing CPFP for some of those transactions? (Probably not, unless they are getting desperate).

Quote from: AB de Royse777 on November 18, 2023, 01:29:56 PM

All transaction texts are saved now and in the case of a dropped transaction, I can rebroadcast it.

In the past two weeks the mempool got more and more congested.
You may have to make another (probably multisig) wallet for handling the payments until your current ones are getting confirmed or dropped. (I am aware that this can cause funding issues. I'm just saying; you do as you think it's best.)

AB de Royse777

legendary

Activity: 2464

Merit: 3878

Hire Bitcointalk Camp. Manager @ r7promotions.com

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on November 18, 2023, 12:54:13 PM

Quote from: AB de Royse777 on November 18, 2023, 12:46:27 PM

If that happens I will need to spend a full half of a day to collect addresses, check which ones were deleted and then again one by one I will need to sign and broadcast.

You don't need to do anything like that. Just save all your unconfirmed transactions in separate files, and if they get deleted after 2 weeks, re-broadcast them. (Not sure, but I think Electrum will store them in your app data by default if that ever happens, but do the process yourself to be sure)

Thank you, this never crossed in my mind. I created this topic which was supposed to be fun but it became useful now. All transaction texts are saved now and in the case of a dropped transaction, I can rebroadcast it.

Quote from: digaran on November 18, 2023, 12:57:32 PM

Which site is that? It seems fun.

Quote from: albert0bsd on November 18, 2023, 01:05:39 PM

That are your campaign paymets? In that case is not possible to accelerate them Sad

Yes, they are. I tried viaBTC but it always exists the size limit unfortunately. I wanted to check their paid service but it seems for their paid service for each a transaction they charge over $200 LOL. I don't see no point to spend that much.

albert0bsd

hero member

Activity: 862

Merit: 662

Quote from: digaran on November 18, 2023, 12:57:32 PM

Or you can wait till ordinals die off, just like DDOS attacks died off on www. They have just found a new attack vector, why would they stop now?

The problem with shitdinals is that someone is profiting them and a lot of people thing that they are profiting them also, in that case the probability for it to stop is very low.

Quote from: AB de Royse777 on November 18, 2023, 12:27:14 PM

Let it continue like this and soon I will have more unconfirmed transactions. A multi-Sig wallet does not allow me to create a lightening channel.

That are your campaign paymets? In that case is not possible to accelerate them Sad

Findingnemo

hero member

Activity: 2366

Merit: 793

Bitcoin = Financial freedom

Quote from: AB de Royse777 on November 18, 2023, 12:51:50 PM

Quote

ORDI hype

Another taproot project?

The brc 20 token ORDI hyped when Binance listed their pairs on 2023-11-07. So it's obvious that in the next few weeks, the hype will eventually die

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on November 18, 2023, 12:54:13 PM

I neither find anything in lightning's documentations.

I am not exactly sure, to be honest, but looking at their website that is how it portrays, send BTC TX by paying 1 SAT as a fee.

digaran

copper member

Activity: 1330

Merit: 899

🖤😏

This is the situation in almost all blocks, there are even more transactions with less dust amounts.

IMO, they only understand money, and the best way is to drop using Bitcoin for a year, if everyone who is not satisfied with high fees does that, when scammers run out of money, pools will realize their mistake, that's when fees will go down.

Imagine there are no transactions other than these spam attacks. And imagine what happens if suddenly %75 of users move to a coin like LTC, only then miners/pools will react because their profit would be at risk.

Unfortunately community is not united, otherwise we could move mountains, now we can only move pebbles.

Or you can wait till ordinals die off, just like DDOS attacks died off on www. They have just found a new attack vector, why would they stop now?

Gladitorcomeback

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 619

Unfortunately we have ti wait little long this time, Ordinal projects are increasing. People buying Bitmap nft distributed to people freely and now worth 0.002 btc. New projects giving free tokens to nft holder. people taking more interest in shit NFTS.

BlackHatCoiner

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 7340

Farewell, Leo

Quote from: AB de Royse777 on November 18, 2023, 12:46:27 PM

If that happens I will need to spend a full half of a day to collect addresses, check which ones were deleted and then again one by one I will need to sign and broadcast.

You don't need to do anything like that. Just save all your unconfirmed transactions in separate files, and if they get deleted after 2 weeks, re-broadcast them. (Not sure, but I think Electrum will store them in your app data by default if that ever happens, but do the process yourself to be sure)

Quote from: Findingnemo on November 18, 2023, 12:46:41 PM

The feature is available in some wallets like Muun Wallet which is 2 of 2 multi sig wallet.

What happens if one of the channel partners need to sign a transaction? It could be anything. A regular payment made by them, routing a transaction, issuing a penalty transaction. The multi-sig other end must be present at all times, and it doesn't make much sense. I neither find anything in lightning's documentations.

AB de Royse777

legendary

Activity: 2464

Merit: 3878

Hire Bitcointalk Camp. Manager @ r7promotions.com

Quote from: Findingnemo on November 18, 2023, 12:46:41 PM

have to be sent from Multi signature wallet to another address then create a lightning channel.

Considering the amounts that will need to move, I do not feel safe. It worth for me to wait until everything become normal again. Hope it become normal soon.

Quote

ORDI hype

Another taproot project?

Findingnemo

hero member

Activity: 2366

Merit: 793

Bitcoin = Financial freedom

Technically multi-signature wallets can create Lightning channels too (correct me if I am wrong guys), but the feature is not available in the wallets we use for example in Electrum.

The feature is available in some wallets like Muun Wallet which is 2 of 2 multi sig wallet.

For now, all we can do is wait for the ORDI hype to be over then the fee will be back to normal until the payments can be postponed or have to be sent from Multi signature wallet to another address then create a lightning channel.

AB de Royse777

legendary

Activity: 2464

Merit: 3878

Hire Bitcointalk Camp. Manager @ r7promotions.com

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on November 18, 2023, 12:35:10 PM

Quote from: AB de Royse777 on November 18, 2023, 12:27:14 PM

Let it continue like this and soon I will have more unconfirmed transactions.

Wait until we all delete unconfirmed transactions more than 2 weeks old. It'll be fun, I swear. Tongue

The emoji explains the fun LOL.
If that happens I will need to spend a full half of a day to collect addresses, check which ones were deleted and then again one by one I will need to sign and broadcast. I can not even think of the workload and the stress :-P

0.00063135 BTC (

) total fees to pay for 0.09049253 BTC (

) total amount still seems cheaper though LOL

BlackHatCoiner

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 7340

Farewell, Leo

Quote from: AB de Royse777 on November 18, 2023, 12:27:14 PM

Let it continue like this and soon I will have more unconfirmed transactions.

Wait until we all delete unconfirmed transactions more than 2 weeks old. It'll be fun, I swear. Tongue

Yeah, lightning won't work on multi-sig. The point of a multi-sig wallet is the security gained from not having all required private keys in one device. But, lightning requires you to sign commitment transactions (which use inputs from the locked funds) and be online at all times (e.g., for signing a potential penalty transaction). I'm struggling to imagine how it'd work in a multi-sig wallet, especially if we consider the fact that locked funds are locked to multi-sig in the first place!

There is also this explanation: https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/97123/134811.

AB de Royse777

legendary

Activity: 2464

Merit: 3878

Hire Bitcointalk Camp. Manager @ r7promotions.com

:-(

Let it continue like this and soon I will have more unconfirmed transactions. A multi-Sig wallet does not allow me to create a lightening channel.

Topic: Hello Bitcoin :-) (Read 456 times)